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-- Loophole In Smoking Bylaw! Puff Away!
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I think some people are losing sight of the fact that on one hand we have THE LAW and the other hand we have REALITY.
The police shouldn't use excessive force, but sometimes they do. People shuoldn't be using drugs, but sometimes they do. By-law officers may not have the right to give tickets, but how many people do you think will argue with them? Faced with a $250 fine? Not many, and if you do, you're probably going to see first hand how pissed the police can get if you decide to a prick about a simple rule. Ever hear about "public mischief"? The police have a NUMBER of tricks they can use that will complicate the life of an average person who decides to disrespect their authority. So I would be careful how loud you decide to protest about your charter rights, chum.
I've put up with smoke for a few years because I like the clubs, but if they decide to go smoke free, and it's a LAW, I'm all for it. It's a disgusting habit, and I don't see why other people should have to suffer for it. I like to smoke the occasional cigar, or my pipe (tobacco) once in a while, but I would never willingly endanger someone else with my bad habit.
/rant
a bylaw officer cannot charge you with public mischeif so again you are confusing the 2 jurisditctions.
If a bylaw officer ever told me to quit smoking id laugh in his face.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Enraptured By-law officers may not have the right to give tickets, but how many people do you think will argue with them? Faced with a $250 fine? Not many, and if you do, you're probably going to see first hand how pissed the police can get if you decide to a prick about a simple rule. Ever hear about "public mischief"? The police have a NUMBER of tricks they can use that will complicate the life of an average person who decides to disrespect their authority. So I would be careful how loud you decide to protest about your charter rights, chum. |
This thread certainly is "special". My suggestion is if you do not want to watch TV, go read a book, that way you do not ostracize yourself from people you may actually have to interact with in the real world. So stop arguing in circles, pick up war and peace and reeeelax!
i dont think im understanding this correctly....
1. a by-law officer is the only person who can inforce a by-law?
2. a bylaw officer is not allowed to identify you
by this logic its not just a smoking ticket you can get out of but any by-law at all....
if you cant get charged for breaking any by laws then whats the point of having any? doesnt make much sense to me
you understand correctly which is why if you check, most bylaws are for infractions involving property (building codes etc) or parking where you can easily be identified as the home owner or the car owner.
As for people's opinions of me on a chat board? Ill state what i have to say and if people dont like me for it thats their problem. I really dont care. I have my friends 
other than calling mark t a tree hugging leftie LOL i havnt insulted anyone and if i have then people need to stop taking someone's politcal position so personally.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 a bylaw officer cannot charge you with public mischeif so again you are confusing the 2 jurisditctions. If a bylaw officer ever told me to quit smoking id laugh in his face. |
Of course, I'm already a non-smoker!
and what would the cops charge me with? "1 count of laughing in a bylaw officer's face"???
id like to see the bylaw officer even try and hold me there to begin with. second, the cop would have no reason to charge me unless i was doing something criminally wrong.
Heh, believe what you want buddy, but disrespect a member of the police force to your own chagrin.
Once again, the LAW... and REALITY!
Good luck with that. I hope Bubba is gentle with you.
You big rebel. Keep on smokin'!
Heh heh.
You're talking tough now, but just wait until they are handing you the ticket and you try to argue. That'll be funny. Seriously though, the police have more power than you think, not that I'm agreeing with it, but that's the way it is, so maybe you should stop misleading people here.
for the millionth time...
POLICE CAN ENFORE THE BYLAW AND TICKET PATRONS OR ESTABLISHMENTS...so if the cops were called, and you were dumb enough to stick around, yes, the police could ticket you (or the bar) so long as the enforcement officer or security confirmed that you were in violation of the bylaw and had been requested to comply or leave and you did neither.
I'm still doubtful that this by-law will be enforced to the utmost extent.
Yet, I am still hopeful. I'll gladly go out to the patio for my one Colt's of the night.
The police CANNOT enforce a bylaw... but they can ask you to leave the club. Thats a huge difference.
I know for a fact that bylaw officers have NO power in this situation. And if you are not complying with a bylaw and the owner of the club asks you to leave and you dont it then becomes a trespassing issue in which the cops CAN take action.
I live in Ottawa and Kingston, both smoke free cities.
Jayx1, this whole thread is bullshit. If you started smoking in a bar in Ottawa, there is zero tolerance !! I mean you just don't smoke inside. Nobody tries to, nobody even thinks about it. You just don't. If you did, EVERYONE would look at you like you have two heads - very embarassing.
You don't smoke anyway, so spend your time doing something more productive then making bullshit threads that defend the smoking population, when you are not even a smoker !!
And because you work at a club, sorry hun, but you are going to have to enforce these rules ! So suck it up, and lets have a healthy debate about a point you might actually be able to prove for once.
ok, i read the first two pages, but it got boring.
most of you know i live in buffalo, and this was enforced last august.
clubs will NOT tolerate smoking. DJs bring crowds in TO, so clubs owners don't give a shit whether you like it or not, it's not worth a fine to them. besides, you can't see undercover cops until it's too late. the only places that will let smoking continue are shithole corners bars who risk losing their old-ass clientele. they'll leave cups of water for which to extinguish their butts.
in Buffalo, a lot of businesses slowed down, but it picked back up to normal again. you'll see many friends and family quit smoking (this is a good thing).
jay, sorry, this loophole will not fly. some people will still light up on occasion and not get caught, and others will get booted by asshole bouncers.
| quote: |
| id like to see the bylaw officer even try and hold me there to begin with. second, the cop would have no reason to charge me unless i was doing something criminally wrong. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 Because TV sucks these days unless you like watching "reality" |
so glad i dont smoke...and i hope ppl wont smoke at clubs anymore ^,^
that loophole'd be cool if it is true
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 so? thats not your problem.. smoke and see if the club will enforce it. If they do, then apologize and butt out. Im willing to bet that most clubs wont give a shit unless the smoke police are actually on the premises. |
aaah so one person doesnt want you to smoke because it might be embarassing... whooopa!
As for the rest of the comments. I think you missed my point. My point is that you cannot get charged as an individual for smoking. What the club can do is ask you to put it out or ask you to leave. This is when i suggest you put it out because if you dont, SECURITY has every right to make you leave the premises. As for the bylaw officer. He/she only has the ability to fine the club unless you are stupid enough to give him/her your identification. so my point is that you can smoke without fear of getting a fine. As for security, thats something else althogether.
How many times must i repeat this for you to get it?
Oh and im all for protesting stupid laws by breaking them. This is how this law went down last time they tried it in Toronto.
For all those who think this by-law won't be enforced -- Here's the headline I read on the first page of Metro this morning on my way to work:
"10 Owners charged as smoking ban kicks in" 
..."The City of Toronto nabbed 10 owners under its new anti-tobacco bylaw in just two hours..."
Still wanna be a smartass?
*EDIT*
Here's the link to today's paper if you actualy want to read the article...
http://www.metronews.ca/uploadedFiles/cator_20040602_A_Metro.pdf
I rest my case, Jayx1 I think there's a village out there somewhere missing their idiot.
club OWNERS being charged... again my point is that PATRONS cant be charged...
but patrons can be kicked out
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