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quote:

Originally posted by Spartan You can say that America shouldn't police the world, that's fine. You can say that we shouldn't have gone into Iraq, ..I agree. You can say that our soldiers caught on video haven't been the best example of American values, but whatever. But seriously, how can anoyone honestly say that America didn't play a big part in World War 1 and World War 2. Let it be a reminder to everyone that we entered World War 1 to help out our allies the British. We didn't need to go, but we did because we felt it was the right thing to do, and it was. The fact that you're criticizing our part in the war is unbelievable when we went all the way to another continent just to help friends. Germany had done nothing to us, other than the "Zimmerman telegram" and sinking one of our oceanliners. Do you seriously believe WW2 could have been won w/o the US? Maybe they don't teach you about D-Day over in Europe. Oh yeah, and to this Serbian kid who keeps posting stuff, maybe you've forgotten about the millions of dollars in aid that the US has poured into Serbia. You don't know what you're talking about.

Are you fucking borderline retarded, HELP IN WWI AND II ?!?!??!?! you mother ******s didn't do shit, and I mean YOU DIDN'T DO SHIT, you went into WWI because of Lusitania not because you thought that it was the right thing to do you fuck head, and look at the statistics, you lost no more than 500,000 people in WWII , that's NOTHING, you played absolutely no role in WWII, Russia pushed the Germans out of Russia and all the way through Europe into Berlin. You guys make yourselves out to be some fucking heroes because of D-Day, that shit was nothing, oh ya and are you a fucking vegetable, HELP IN SERBIA!?!?!?!??! did you forget about Kosovo, talk to someone who has been there in the war and ask them how tomahawk missiles falling on them helped them out

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway I tell you what, I'll admint it first, my words don't count here. Why? Because I'm not there, defending my life, wondering if the next minute some iraqi "freedom fighter" will aim an ak47 or an RPG at my ass, I'm not there eating sand and heat for breakfast, not there loosing my good friends, seeing stuff that we can only imagine. I hope I won't ever have to be in that situation, and this is because of the brave soldier who are doing it for us! As much as we critize their action, they only wish they could be home. You talk about upholding laws and such, but I wont take your word for it. Not unless you go there yourself and do a full tour of duty.

"seeing stuff that we can only imagine."?!?!?!? give me a fucking break, what a pussy, what's happening to the Americans in Iraq is a walk in the fucking park

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Rat 187 "seeing stuff that we can only imagine."?!?!?!? give me a fucking break, what a pussy, what's happening to the Americans in Iraq is a walk in the fucking park

So getting shot at, suicide bombed is a walk in the fucking park?

He has a point.... how many Americans have died in this "war"?

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway No sympathy for those people in the video.. War is ugly for both sides, if you think these pilots gave a hoot, do you think Iraqi fighters give a hoot about US soldiers too? Since I'm not on their side (Iraqis), I'm glad it was them on the receiving end this time. However, this doesn't mean I approve the war in Iraq.

That sounds happy to see them get shot up. Pehaps I've been harsh or misunderstood you or something.

Also posting that link about the captive has nothing to do with the fact that american pilots broke laws.

About the sad deaths of Americans in Iraq one death is too much yes.... but killing people (more deaths) for no reason apart from the fact that your feeling twichy is not the way to act professionally.

Also the actual number of dead in comparision to the number of troops isn't that high really. i.e. if you were in it from the start (which wouldn't happen as you would have been relived by now) there is a less than 1% chance you'd die. That is basicly less than 0.5% given that you'd have been rotated.

Bearing in mind that just in trainning quite a few people die. Again 1 is too many but the Iraqi people have it much harder.

That is less than 1000 american troops dead, atleast 10,000 iraqi civillians dead.

EDIT:See the thing is Americans tend to think of bloodless wars that is bloodless for them. This one isn't actually wha I'd call a fully fledged war.

E.g. during the Falklands War the British had 1000 (i.e. more than in Iraq) casualties. And that was in 1982 not all the long ago.

Have you even heard of that? No..... why? Because no Americans were involved. Now even worse compaired to the rest of the world think Kosavo for a recent example 1000 people being killed is a non event saddly.

But becuase of the preoccupation with perserving American GI's lifes they will kill as many as it takes.

This video again ... it's kind of old news:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/apache.asp

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish E.g. during the Falklands War the British had 1000 (i.e. more than in Iraq) casualties. And that was in 1982 not all the long ago. Have you even heard of that? No..... why? Because no Americans were involved. Now even worse compaired to the rest of the world think Kosavo for a recent example 1000 people being killed is a non event saddly. But becuase of the preoccupation with perserving American GI's lifes they will kill as many as it takes.

Actually that's 1000 casualties suffered from both sides of the conflict. The Brits lost 255 men.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/st...ands/guide6.stm

quote:

The fact that there were a mere 1,800 islanders, and that their way of life was preserved at the cost of 1,000 British casualties and 1,800 Argentinian ones did not seem a grossly stupid and expensive way of conducting foreign policy;

LINK



Yeah it is old!!! lol I had this exactly same convo with people in the policical forum...

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish LINK Yeah it is old!!! lol I had this exactly same convo with people in the policical forum...

Weird ... not sure what that novelist is using as a source, but every source I look at says 255 brits. Hmmm ...

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Rat 187 Are you fucking borderline retarded, HELP IN WWI AND II ?!?!??!?! you mother ******s didn't do shit, and I mean YOU DIDN'T DO SHIT, you went into WWI because of Lusitania not because you thought that it was the right thing to do you fuck head, and look at the statistics, you lost no more than 500,000 people in WWII , that's NOTHING, you played absolutely no role in WWII, Russia pushed the Germans out of Russia and all the way through Europe into Berlin.

Do you think the Russians would have been able to push Germany back if the US didn't make it a two front war by invading France? Just because you're angry w/ the current America gives you no right to deny history. I don't understand why you're getting all upiddy about this anyways. I have no problem agreeing with you that the war couldn't have been won w/o Russia. And by the way I already apologized for my out of place Serbian comment.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Weird ... not sure what that novelist is using as a source, but every source I look at says 255 brits. Hmmm ...

Yeah I know it is weird, we'll say 250 then. It's just thats where I saw the fiq I quoted b4.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Rat 187 you went into WWI because of Lusitania not because you thought that it was the right thing to do you fuck head,

Also just to correct you on this point, the sinking of the Lusitania occurred in 1915. The US didn't enter the war until 1917. The Germans even apologized to the Americans after the incident and made promises to cease all attacks against passenger vessels. The primary motivations for the US entry into the war was due to German unrestricted submarine warfare on all allied shipping in the Atlantic. Plus the Zimmerman telegram helped play a supporting role along with Wilson's desire to "make the world safe for democracy" as he put it.

At any which rate, WW1 wasn't even a "righteous" war that should have necessitated American involvement. If the Europeans hadn't screwed themselves with their alliance system and let nationalism run rampant paired with their idealistic notions of warfare, a world war wouldn't have happened. However, all parties involved built up the case for war and regardless of the short term crisis that provided the Austro-Hungarian Empire with its casus belli to start the war, it was an eventual inevitability anyway that could have just as easily been initiated by the triple entente.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish That sounds happy to see them get shot up. Pehaps I've been harsh or misunderstood you or something. Also posting that link about the captive has nothing to do with the fact that american pilots broke laws. About the sad deaths of Americans in Iraq one death is too much yes.... but killing people (more deaths) for no reason apart from the fact that your feeling twichy is not the way to act professionally. Also the actual number of dead in comparision to the number of troops isn't that high really. i.e. if you were in it from the start (which wouldn't happen as you would have been relived by now) there is a less than 1% chance you'd die. That is basicly less than 0.5% given that you'd have been rotated. Bearing in mind that just in trainning quite a few people die. Again 1 is too many but the Iraqi people have it much harder. That is less than 1000 american troops dead, atleast 10,000 iraqi civillians dead. EDIT:See the thing is Americans tend to think of bloodless wars that is bloodless for them. This one isn't actually wha I'd call a fully fledged war. E.g. during the Falklands War the British had 1000 (i.e. more than in Iraq) casualties. And that was in 1982 not all the long ago. Have you even heard of that? No..... why? Because no Americans were involved. Now even worse compaired to the rest of the world think Kosavo for a recent example 1000 people being killed is a non event saddly. But becuase of the preoccupation with perserving American GI's lifes they will kill as many as it takes.

I only saw the part where the iraqis were putting away the RPG. I didn't see them trying to fix the tractor if that's what they were doing, they shouldn't been shot up. Yes, if this was shooting unarmed civilians then the pilots should be punished for this. I have no argument about that, but again war has so many evils.
I truly believe that us sitting here, typing away, we cannot comprehend what is really going on there. We may hear stories from friends and such but your own experience will only tell the truth.

I think by now American's if they ever thought this was a bloodless war, they are all realizing that it is one. The mood here is starting to be somber, as each day the news report of US soldiers being killed almost on a daily basis.

I can't help to blame Bush for this, why? I guess because he's the leader of our nation.

quote:

Originally posted by Spartan Do you think the Russians would have been able to push Germany back if the US didn't make it a two front war by invading France? Just because you're angry w/ the current America gives you no right to deny history. I don't understand why you're getting all upiddy about this anyways. I have no problem agreeing with you that the war couldn't have been won w/o Russia. And by the way I already apologized for my out of place Serbian comment.

good deal then

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway So getting shot at, suicide bombed is a walk in the fucking park?

compared to real war, yes it is

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Rat 187 compared to real war, yes it is

Tell you what at least in "real combat" situation you have an idea who's your enemy, driving around in Iraq not knowing if there's a road side bomb for you is just as scary.

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway Tell you what at least in "real combat" situation you have an idea who's your enemy, driving around in Iraq not knowing if there's a road side bomb for you is just as scary.

riiiiiiiiight, A shower of bullets piercing people's heads around you and a guy next to you collecting his own guts after taking a chunk of shrap metal to the abdomen is no scarier than walking city streets and harassing citizens, with no more than 2 casualties a week

naw man its not a walk in the park, the alliance in iraq, mainly united states is experiencing another vietnam...but once again the question comes to mind, why are they there....

...i know there are a couple of good reasons why (bringing down saddam, nuclear weapons...) but you have to say it is not americas war...if the majority of iraqis wanted saddam off the throne, he wouldve been thrown off....and if it really was a majority, you wouldnt have so much resistance that the allies are experiencing....you could rightfully say that the us has brought the war to iraqi people...to some freedom but to most a war...

i just feel sorry for the soldiers that have died pointlessly, being sent there because of the fascist rule of the american government, who didnt get involved in iraq because they love iraqi people and wanted to bring them "peace" (its ironic that they brought them war) but for their own benefit

quote:

Originally posted by Rudy Yeah and you lost to Vietnam Could somebody please tell me that not all Americans think like this guy!! Otherwise I am gonna get very fightened! Cause this is probably the most retarded thing I have ever read, it perfectly characterises Bush' thoughts!

eh go fuck off this whole board is full of raging anti americans its evident in all the damn political and war posts

fucking amazes me.

jsut contradict urselves by generalziing about the americans, yeah...

First of all

I have the unedited ver.

There was nobody laughng, every professional.

Second

They werent farmes, they were rebels/soldiers that were dealing with rpg guns


DIE YOU SCUMBAGS

well, im a flaming liberal.

i think im gonna move to the UK. GO MANCHESTER UNITED!

quote:

Originally posted by st0ka. naw man its not a walk in the park, the alliance in iraq, mainly united states is experiencing another vietnam...but once again the question comes to mind, why are they there.... ...i know there are a couple of good reasons why (bringing down saddam, nuclear weapons...) but you have to say it is not americas war...if the majority of iraqis wanted saddam off the throne, he wouldve been thrown off....and if it really was a majority, you wouldnt have so much resistance that the allies are experiencing....you could rightfully say that the us has brought the war to iraqi people...to some freedom but to most a war... i just feel sorry for the soldiers that have died pointlessly, being sent there because of the fascist rule of the american government, who didnt get involved in iraq because they love iraqi people and wanted to bring them "peace" (its ironic that they brought them war) but for their own benefit

Sad but true, we all have to remember that the soldiers there (American and from every nations) are all risking their lives for some politicians who are playing conquer the world. These are men who have families and friends, just like us, actually it could off been any of us there, trying to survive. Imagine that, instead of you posting messages on this board, you would be there, patrolling the streets of Baghdad, not knowing if the next Iraqi you see might put a bullet in your head.
This may not be intense as being in the heat of battle, but it is certainly a slow torture of the mind.

This has to stop somehow, we came in this foreign country for the wrong reasons or did we have any in the first place?

Vote Bush

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Originally posted by DjSway This has to stop somehow, we came in this foreign country for the wrong reasons or did we have any in the first place? Vote Bush

Cut out that pansy talk.

It's not Bush's fault we're still over there, it's due to the growing number of insane religious extremests.

If you want it to stop like we all do, you should place your anger in the proper place.

quote:

Originally posted by Spartan Cut out that pansy talk. It's not Bush's fault we're still over there, it's due to the growing number of insane religious extremests. If you want it to stop like we all do, you should place your anger in the proper place.

I'm not going to debate about why we're still there, but why were we there for in the first place? Tell me where I can place my anger at? Voting both?

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway I'm not going to debate about why we're still there, but why were we there for in the first place? Tell me where I can place my anger at? Voting both?

Good response I guess.
Bush won't be getting my vote either.

I can't answer your first question because I simply don't know.

I thought at first it was b/c Saddam kept kicking out UN insepctors, and we thought he had WMDs. But then we found out there weren't any.

So in this case, who is to blame for this? I would think Bush since he is the leader and has the ultimate power to change things. I'm not saying that there is a clear answer to the problem we're facing in Irak. However, the longer we wait, more troops/ people are being killed. BTW I just heard a report on the radio that this year, there were more deaths by terrorism than last year.. and they claim we're winning the war on terrorism.

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