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Originally posted by Vlad Fine whatever... people want to know the truth...

Truth is that no matter what Hamas says about the movie, it will not make me go see this film as a basis for truth.

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Apr. 24, 2004 13:38 | Updated Apr. 24, 2004 19:40 Zur: Israel has infiltrated Hamas leadership By JPOST.COM STAFF Border Police head Cmdr. David Zur, said Saturday that "Israel has people in the leadership of the Hamas." Zur was responding to a question posed to him regarding Israel's success in finding and killing top terrorist leaders, Ynet reported. Zur was speaking at a cultural event in Beer Sheba. "We are excelling in everything connected to human intelligence. We're investing in agents. Israel has excelled beyond belief in this field," Zur said.

Zur: Israel has infiltrated Hamas leadership (Jerusalem Post Online article)

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Sharon 'Alliance With Hamas' Exposed Inside Israel itself, evidence of opposition to Sharon's actions is showing up in the press. In fact, some are exposing that Sharon has a secret deal with Hamas, reporting that a stormy Cabinet meeting followed Sharon's return from the United States after meeting with President Bush, Secretary of State Colin Powell, and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice. In the Cabinet session, members of Sharon's inner circle were pounding the table and telling Foreign Minister Shimon Peres that they intend to bring the deadly Hamas group that claimed credit for the suicide terrorist acts, into power to replace Arafat. At that point, led by Peres, Labor Party members of the governing coalition walked out of the meeting, and are now debating whether to bring down the Sharon government. This Faustian pact with Hamas was detailed in a Dec. 4 Ha'aretz article by senior commentator Akiva Eldar, who revealed that at a Cabinet meeting, Minister Silvan Shalom blasted Peres for advocating "negotiations" with Arafat. Shalom stated, "Between Hamas and Arafat, I prefer Hamas," adding that Arafat is a "terrorist in a diplomat's suit, while Hamas can be hit unmercifully ... there won't be any international protests." The London Times, owned by Rupert Murdoch, one of Sharon's biggest backers, also reported that Sharon's Cabinet wants Hamas to replace Arafat. Those familiar with the 30-years-long mode of operation of Israel's "Terror Against Terror" hit teams, dismiss the standard "preventive retaliation" explanation as calculated double-talk: The assassinations are pre-calculated to provoke revenge strikes from Hamas or other terrorists, which in turn unleash the IDF generals.

Sharon 'Alliance With Hamas' Exposed (Executive Intelligence Review online article link)

Anyone see the ties here?

I just saw this today and I have to say I was thoroughly disappointed.

Let me say this- It DID bring to light some interesting points, TRUE things, terribly moronic things that our nation shouldn't overlook...


HOWEVER Michael Moore also completely screwed up this "documentary". I had heard that it was "biased" and I expected that considering the source but the editing was weak. Any IDIOT could see how many things were taken COMPLETELY out of context. I WANTED to be able to go into that theatre , watch it, come out of the theatre saying "what an insightful film" or something to that effect, BUT NO. For my 9 dollars I get a terribly ineffective , shallow, poorly edited piece of mediocrity.
THANKS MICHAEL MOORE

*in no way am i a supporter of Bush, but I'm not going to fawn over Michael Moore

quote:

Originally posted by Paula I just saw this today and I have to say I was thoroughly disappointed. Let me say this- It DID bring to light some interesting points, TRUE things, terribly moronic things that our nation shouldn't overlook... HOWEVER Michael Moore also completely screwed up this "documentary". I had heard that it was "biased" and I expected that considering the source but the editing was weak. Any IDIOT could see how many things were taken COMPLETELY out of context. I WANTED to be able to go into that theatre , watch it, come out of the theatre saying "what an insightful film" or something to that effect, BUT NO. For my 9 dollars I get a terribly ineffective , shallow, poorly edited piece of mediocrity. THANKS MICHAEL MOORE *in no way am i a supporter of Bush, but I'm not going to fawn over Michael Moore

throughout this entire thread, one person has provided proof of moore editing his films in a malicious manner. don't sit here and play the blame game if you can't back it up.

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Originally posted by occrider Ok sure, I've posted lots of commentary on Moore over the years. My original criticisms began with bowling: http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...el&pagenumber=1 They then spawned off into other areas as I read more news items on him: Criticisms of him being hypocritical in what he preaches and what he does: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...ore#post2057282 My criticisms of some of the stuff he has penned: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...ore#post1903844 An article that I read that touches up upon his career works as a whole: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...ore#post1689714 Some of my criticisms with respect to the whole disney affair: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...ore#post2731283 I hope you don't mind reading. Hmmm in retrospect, I've wasted a lot of time doing research on a guy I despise.

Holy shit! That was you?!?
In that case, congrats on a job well done!
I've read your work some time ago, and it definately puts Bowling For Columbine in a very, very bad light.

Michael Moore should know his limits, and he should understand that he too, as well as his arch enemy Bush, is helping provoke and stir-up opinion based on half-truths, and thereby not being any better than Bush himself.

And about the Cannes award, the jury holds men and women strongly against the war (Sean Penn anyone?), and ofcourse this is the reason for him winning this prize. The Cannes film festival winners have always been movies that are true to the art of film-making. If you win that price, it is because your film has a certain art value. I havent seen Fahrenheit, but I doubt it is good at acting, costumes, set locations etc. The only reason it won is because it will help fight a Bush re-election. (thereby the release dates both in cinema and later on DVD)

I'm from Norway, and I honestly don't understand how American's do not ask for the truth over there. It seems like your freedom of speach, that it seems film-makers think you are alone with while 90% of the world consists of free democratic contries, works against you sometimes. It seems like there is utter crap propaganda coming from both left and right wingers over there.

Basically, one do not make one lie go away by telling another lie.
And Michael Moore should know and see, that his propaganda does nothing but help the US-bashers rather than help it go away.

I will see the movie, but I will also read and draw my own conclusions. I will not let my final opinion be distracted by a man that is known for twisting the truth to suit his own cause.

Edit: I was not responding to the Tranceaddict threads, but:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/


and then

http://www.hardylaw.net/replytomoore.html

And, if you have not read it yet, I urge you to do so.

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Originally posted by TuanAnh213 are you implying that everyone else supports bush?

No..good try though, I am not implying anything, just read the sentence, everything does not have a hidden meaning, i meant what I said, but you're question as to what i'm implying makes it clear to me why a movie like this would tickle your fancy...

Mizz

Movie is good, throws some very good points, and unfolds the dark side of Bush to light.. Not like I didnt know, but, its different to see all the connections and facts.. some parts are extremes, but, with factual facts. Go see the movie.

Michael Moore's documentary, which I just saw 2 days ago, is a movie I have been waiting for ever since George Bush jr. became president.

The movie was carefully scrutinized prior to it's release, so there is nothing said that isn't untrue. It's about time someone stood up for the truth, even though it may be difficult to accept.

Let's be honest here:

No one wants a liar for a president, and no one wants to look at the "leader of the country" as an il-fitted man for office. That's why I think a lot of people are having a hard time with this movie. Michael Moore is stirring the public, getting under their skin maybe. His enthusiasm is on screen for everyone to criticize and I think he is to be commended, once again, for daring to go there.

I enjoyed the film-and not just because I disagree with our actions in Iraq and the actions (or lack of)on part of the administration prior to the Sept. 11 attacks. I enjoyed it because it was direct, and reminded me of what I felt on Sept. 11th. Not that I wanted to cry all over again, but it's so easy for us all to go back to our lives and not pay attention to what our president decides to do with the fate of our country. I was once again reminded of why I am going to vote in November, which I believe is the most noble motive that Moore has for his film.

I am not here to debate either side, because the truth is there for all to see. I encourage everyone to see the movie, but more importantly to vote. Your votes, not the movie, is what will make the real difference.

~Lauren

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Originally posted by CityKitty Michael Moore's documentary, which I just saw 2 days ago, is a movie I have been waiting for ever since George Bush jr. became president. The movie was carefully scrutinized prior to it's release, so there is nothing said that isn't untrue. ~Lauren

Uh what are you talking about, most of the movie is factually inaccurate. It was scrutinized by whom? By Moore? By Moveon.org? Its all about agendas here not facts, you don't wanna hear about facts, you just want to hear what you believe to be true and what has been propagated by whatever organization or party you have an allegiance to, in actuality you are the dangerous people of the US, you don't look for the truth, you look for people who agree with you. All you have shown is where your bias lies, and your opinion should be jugded based upon that. I bet you watch comedy central for your news...


Mizzuno

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Originally posted by mizzuno I bet you watch comedy central for your news...

and where do you get Your news, mr. high and mighty?

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Originally posted by LuNaSeA and where do you get Your news, mr. high and mighty?

FOX news and CNN

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Originally posted by mizzuno Uh what are you talking about, most of the movie is factually inaccurate. It was scrutinized by whom? By Moore? By Moveon.org? Its all about agendas here not facts, you don't wanna hear about facts, you just want to hear what you believe to be true and what has been propagated by whatever organization or party you have an allegiance to, in actuality you are the dangerous people of the US, you don't look for the truth, you look for people who agree with you. All you have shown is where your bias lies, and your opinion should be jugded based upon that. I bet you watch comedy central for your news... Mizzuno

you're a funny guy. Moore knows he's espousing propaganda. he does use editing to his advantage. yet, he states irrefutable facts. I guess it's also false to say that the current Prime Minister for Iraq is actually a CIA operative who has access to very sensitive knowledge and is friendly with Bush? No shit Moore has an agenda, that's why he made this film. Bush and his spinless, greedy cronies also have an agenda. do you see that???

i didn't ask you, mr tulanecheeseburgerandfries90210!

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Originally posted by TuanAnh213 FOX news and CNN

well considering one is fascist and the other is communist...wouldn't Mizzuno be REALLY conflicted?

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Originally posted by LuNaSeA i didn't ask you, mr tulanecheeseburgerandfries90210!

errr..okay?

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Originally posted by TuanAnh213 errr..okay?

it's just one of those things- u have to get to know me to get my insanity (that i euphemize as humor)

Amazing movie. Really blew me away.

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Originally posted by LuNaSeA it's just one of those things- u have to get to know me to get my insanity (that i euphemize as humor)

ahhh...ic

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Originally posted by mizzuno Uh what are you talking about, most of the movie is factually inaccurate. It was scrutinized by whom? By Moore? By Moveon.org? Its all about agendas here not facts, you don't wanna hear about facts, you just want to hear what you believe to be true and what has been propagated by whatever organization or party you have an allegiance to, in actuality you are the dangerous people of the US, you don't look for the truth, you look for people who agree with you. All you have shown is where your bias lies, and your opinion should be jugded based upon that. I bet you watch comedy central for your news... Mizzuno

ok i'm tired of u saying all ur crap man. i have read through every single review and editorial that has BASHED the movie and called it full of lies. Out of every one of those, there have been approximately 3 or 4 parts of the movie which they keep saying is lies. 4 parts out of what.... a 2 hour and 20 minute movie? so please stfu because "most" of the movie is NOT false. if it were how come more examples weren't brought up about its lies and inaccuracy. please enlighten u fucking tard. p.s. go ahead and vote for bush in november, you'll only be supporting the downfall of this country. have you noticed that after bush has taken office that more and more people hate americans. yes, they hate us because the actions taken by our current office has been reckless and ridiculous. you know which part of that "inaccurate" movie hit me the hardest. when all those african americans stood up there asking for one signature. shows how unfair and biased our system still is.....

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