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-- what is a popular trend these days
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piercings (esp. naval) and tatoos (esp. lower back) on women

can be good if tastefully done, but can also be cheesy

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Originally posted by Slylee it's probably because he's had gay tendencies and it scares the crap out of him. sorry orbax, but they don't say that for no reason, that's usually the reason behind homophobics. men experimenting w/ men is just as common as when girls do it, it's just not as accepted by society. there are more and more closet gay men w/ wife and children these days...it's scary.

well i don't think orbax is gay...i think its more a religion thing with him, but i will agree with you that a lot of homophobs are scared of that.

i remember this dude in highschool who was the biggest homophob in the world...then he ended up being the biggest flaming gay dude you ever met...

also, so far all you have said is "its not wrong" like i keep saying defenders of homosexuality always do. Ive stated why I think its wrong. Instead of trying to refute me point by point why dont you throw your argument for its rightness out there?

I would be absolutely ecstatic if someone did that just once. Disproving what I say would merely take us back to a zero-neutral state. which doesnt help resolve the issue at all.

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Originally posted by Orbax I suggest you refrain from such "insights" in the future.

i suggest you take it like a man...i'm expressing my opinion, last time i checked i'm allowed to do that.

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Originally posted by Floorfiller i remember this dude in highschool who was the biggest homophob in the world...then he ended up being the biggest flaming gay dude you ever met...

Jason, using terms like this isnt helping your point. Dont use slang with such negative connotation.

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Originally posted by Floorfiller well i don't think orbax is gay...i think its more a religion thing with him, but i will agree with you that a lot of homophobs are scared of that. i remember this dude in highschool who was the biggest homophob in the world...then he ended up being the biggest flaming gay dude you ever met...

Ive asked this before, not to chalk up any kind of difference to my religion. I havent used religion as an excuse and for people to pass it off (which is what thats doing "oh hes just a religious nut") is pretty insulting.

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Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie Jason, using terms like this isnt helping your point. Dont use slang with such negative connotation.

i didn't mean it in a negative way...i was just trying to express his gayness. sorry, i didn't know how else to put it

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Originally posted by Floorfiller i didn't mean it in a negative way...i was just trying to express his gayness. sorry, i didn't know how else to put it

I sounded like a mom and thats not the way I meant to come across.

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Originally posted by Slylee i suggest you take it like a man...i'm expressing my opinion, last time i checked i'm allowed to do that.

Well, your insight was a personal attack against someone stating views. I was discussing a subject and you took it to the dirty level of attacking personality and character and lifestyle instead of dealing with the issue. It was low and uncalled for, and entirely inappropriate. I dont really care what you do, and this being the internet I cant really react to personal attacks as I would in person.

But I think refraining from attacking me would be a good thing. And focusing on the issue and what ive said, and making your own statement regarding your thoughts would be infinitely more beneficial.

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Originally posted by Orbax Ive asked this before, not to chalk up any kind of difference to my religion. I havent used religion as an excuse and for people to pass it off (which is what thats doing "oh hes just a religious nut") is pretty insulting.

ok sorry. i didn't mean to offend.

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Originally posted by Floorfiller ok sorry. i didn't mean to offend.

that cool, just some people are taking this to a personal level, where it shouldnt be. And I keep repeating myself

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Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie I sounded like a mom and thats not the way I meant to come across.

yeah mom...get off my nuts!

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Originally posted by Orbax Well, your insight was a personal attack against someone stating views. I was discussing a subject and you took it to the dirty level of attacking personality and character and lifestyle instead of dealing with the issue. It was low and uncalled for, and entirely inappropriate. I dont really care what you do, and this being the internet I cant really react to personal attacks as I would in person. But I think refraining from attacking me would be a good thing. And focusing on the issue and what ive said, and making your own statement regarding your thoughts would be infinitely more beneficial.

i will do whatever i want, know that.

it sounds like i was a little too close to home.... just shrug it off if i was wrong...

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Originally posted by Floorfiller yeah mom...get off my nuts!

gay marriage is another distrubing trend

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Originally posted by Slylee i will do whatever i want, know that. it sounds like i was a little too close to home.... just shrug it off if i was wrong...

Im not saying you cant do whatever you want, im saying you shouldnt have done that. and to see no wrong doing in dropping in a personal jab is disturbing.

The whole "oh he hates gays because hes a repressed gay himself" is an extremely played out little saying. Its never used in formal debates and, like I said, is primarily used to attack the credibility of the person instead of what they are actually saying.

Im not angry at the intimation that I am a closet homosexual itself. Ive heard a lot worse.

Lets put it this way. When people are TRYING to piss me off, its not what they are saying, its the fact that they are TRYING TO PISS ME OFF that pisses me off.

I know what you were trying to do with that statement regardless of whether you knew your own intentions. It wasnt some innocent, wide eyed girl, saying that and flicking her hair over her shoulder and then asking for a lollipop. It was you attacking my character.

Thats the kind of thing I *dont* shrug off. Im not a pussy, and Ill defend myself. As already stated, I cant deal with this like I would in person, so all I can ask is that you refrain from such low tactics in the future.

Of course, you have the option not to, and that is your call, and youll probably keep it going for a bit just to prove that you can and you are independent and what not.

Im saying, its frustrating and doesnt help anything, and hopefully you can see that.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf gay marriage is another distrubing trend

Disturbing? Explain...

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf gay marriage is another distrubing trend

They deserve to have this right though

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Originally posted by Orbax primarily gay homosexuality was used to dominate other men.

you've got me confused is there also straight homosexuality too

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Originally posted by Orbax You took that completely out of context.

what part did i take out of context and how did i change your intended meaning?

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Also, youre fucked up about being so blase` about death. It means they dont get to be on this world anymore, and thats messed up and sad. Death is wrong on at least 1 level every time, and for you not to see that is fucking pathetic.

Nothing pathetic about accepting that we don't live forever. Even fundies like yourself must understand you can't get to heaven without dieing first. We darwinians know without death the earth would become over populated and there wouldn't be a gene diversity, laying the ground work for catestrophic death on massive scale. So again why don't you consider death natural?

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Originally posted by igottaknow you've got me confused is there also straight homosexuality too what part did i take out of context and how did i change your intended meaning? Nothing pathetic about accepting that we don't live forever. Even fundies like yourself must understand you can't get to heaven without dieing first. For us darwinians know without death the earth would become over populated and there wouldn't be a gene diversity, laying the ground work for catestrophic death on massive scale. So again why don't you consider death natural?

gay and lesbian are two distinct groups within the homosexual community

you changed the intended meaning by not reading anything else that was posted. Or you just didnt get it.

ohhh im a fundie now. there we go. that resolves the issue. Keep up the religious chatter!

and once more, I do consider death natural. I consider it to be sad too. Because dying sucks...you dont get to live anymore that was my point.

well i must say that i agree with a lot of what you said orbax about having something become your identity instead of being a person...you become a gay person, but i'm afraid that a lot of people are going to try and pass it off as prejudice.

i think that it is pretty trendy to be gay or lesbian...and i think that it is so for a reason very similar to what slylee said about being a "rebel". i think that the idea of being different is attractive to a lot of people and that is a factor in gay culture, but i don't think its the only factor.

my biggest factor when it comes to gays is, i'm not a factor. i see what other people are doing with their lives as not really effecting me so i don't care what they do. do i think its right? if right means that would i choose that for myself? no, but if right means do i think we should legalize gay marriage? sure what the hell.

my stance on gay marriage is that i think its something that should be allowed for the following reason:

married couples do recieve certain advantages in life be it a different tax bracket, a discount on your auto insruance, the ability to share medical and dental plans. if people are commited to one another, why shouldn't they be able to share those benefits?

My only issue is the word used. Marriage has been throughout history a male female word. Just because the homosexuals are getting more accepted into society, and being raised up to the same level of benefits as everyone else, which they should be, doesnt mean they get to rewrite history. I believe in tradition and heritage. And to have someone try to change something that is a sacred union to secular and religious types alike in a political goal to get more accepted, its wrong.

Give them identical benefits to marriage, call it something else, and im happy.

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Originally posted by Floorfiller married couples do recieve certain advantages in life be it a different tax bracket, a discount on your auto insruance, the ability to share medical and dental plans. if people are commited to one another, why shouldn't they be able to share those benefits?

Marriage is not a purely financial institution. If they want civil unions, fine, that's not really my business

But "marriage" is really about a man and woman coming together for life in order to have children. It's an essential function in our society. Gays can't have children, nor can they raise them as well as a man and a woman.

"Marriage" is between a man and a woman, period.

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Originally posted by Orbax My only issue is the word used. Marriage has been throughout history a male female word. Just because the homosexuals are getting more accepted into society, and being raised up to the same level of benefits as everyone else, which they should be, doesnt mean they get to rewrite history. I believe in tradition and heritage. And to have someone try to change something that is a sacred union to secular and religious types alike in a political goal to get more accepted, its wrong. Give them identical benefits to marriage, call it something else, and im happy.

i can go for that. i agree. i think that the primary reason that the gay community wants to become legally married is really just a stab at what you just said, tradition. Of course the fact that gay and lesbian couples are not condoned in certain religious ideologies, in fact the very religions that purpose marriage to begin with, is definitely the target. So yes, i agree...call it something else, but get the benefits of it.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf But "marriage" is really about a man and woman coming together for life in order to have children. It's an essential function in our society. Gays can't have children, nor can they raise them as well as a man and a woman.

How can you say this? What do you know that we dont? Two men or two women can raise a child just as well as any other pair. And yes they can have children, its called adoption.

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