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if you buy Compilations, but also down load full rips is this ok or not?

for example say you have coldharbour sessions, but also have the mp3 rip for whirlpool - under the sun

ok or not

quote:

Originally posted by E-vangelist not necessarily... while a vinyl ultimately can have a better quality due to the fact that it's analog, when you "rip" something (into a mp3 for example) you're compressing it into whatever format you choose.. so whether it came from a vinyl or cdr if you compressed it to 192kbps, the difference is going to be negligible

That would ONLY be the case if a vinyl was:
-Not attracting dust and thus bad quality
-Every vinyl was the same... you got good vinyl and bad vinyl
-The pressing is like the original master intended (I remember the Havannah - Havannah pressings for example which were just beyond awful)
-On a good setup (good tt, good mixer, good cables, good needle etc)
And even then it wouldnt be perfect coz of so much other things... In THEORY the quality of the sound that is pressed on the vinyl would be better than a CD-source but in reality it can never be that way

therefor official cdr's and such are ALWAYS better quality than a vinyl. And a 192kbps compared to a 320kbps is ofcourse a major difference but the bigger the numbers get the less you can hear it.

Anyway the CD-Vinyl subject has long passed really... everyone should accept that CD is in alot of ways superior to Vinyl

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller you know what though. there is a difference between dling a tune before it is set to be released for your own listening enjoyment and dling it and then using it in a online broadcast or a promotional mix. i think that is the problem we're talking about. people listening to the track and then deciding to purchase it is not a problem, but people shouldn't be using the track to promote themselves as dj's until they have actually purchased it.

Exactly. I use mp3s to preview releases, but would never use one in a public mix. I've ended up buying much more music as a result of mp3s, but only mix with purchased material. That's part of why I chose vinyl over CD, actually, because in a way it forces me to use bought media and support the artists.

As for the casual trance listener who does not wish to mix, I have no ethical solution to offer, as they don't appear to have any incentive to buy.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Exactly. I use mp3s to preview releases, but would never use one in a public mix. I've ended up buying much more music as a result of mp3s, but only mix with purchased material. That's part of why I chose vinyl over CD, actually, because in a way it forces me to use bought media and support the artists. As for the casual trance listener who does not wish to mix, I have no ethical solution to offer, as they don't appear to have any incentive to buy.

but then how can they call themselves a true fan of the genre if they don't have a desire to mix...its INEVITABLE!!!!!! hehehe

Hey guys... i've chilled out a bit now (just returned from my REAL JOB!! ).. I realise my initial post was a bit anger fuelled!!! I apologise if it came across arrogant in anyway.. BUT..

My point remains the same... what really annoyed me is someone quite willing to offer the mp3 around not even knowing who I was...

I really don't have a dinosaur attitude as someone stated...and I know that probably all of you would have no idea who I was if not for the Net, but still, I run the record label for you people - we don't make hardly any money doing it... we do it to get tracks out there, then it feels like the people we are trying to supply good tunes to, are crushing us!!

As a record label we are looking into the Legal Downloading of MP3's as we know that many people don't have Record Players anymore but still want the tune.. and YES, i agree that vinyl is massively over priced but trust me... it cost so much to produce it!!!

As for the issue of it being my fault!!??!! Promotion of a track is very difficult in the current climate. How can we not send out any copies!?!? The track would fall on its arse!!! How many of you listen to ASOT and really want the tracks Armin plays.. this is how tracks gain hype.. we need to send tracks out.. the problem now seems that some of the A - B list DJ's we supply with music feel the need to upload and share it..

We are now pursuing Digital Signature on each CDR so that we can trace this problem in the future!!!

Thanks anyway for your support in this un-avoidable occurence.

Andy

P.S. The rips are all wrong anyway.. its Whirlpool & Octagen... not Whirlpool v Octagen!!!

quote:

Originally posted by bagguley P.S. The rips are all wrong anyway.. its Whirlpool & Octagen... not Whirlpool v Octagen!!!

Take that you filthy leechers!

Its the sad old point that people still feel its their unborn right to listen to music without paying for it.

I know loads will come back with the excuse "if i couldnt download it, i would never have it, as i would not buy it, so they loose no cash to me..."

blah blah blah

In other words, you dont want it if its not free.

And if large groups of people are allowed to get their music under that premise, there will be no music industry other than Pop Idol.

People need to realise that to get more good music out in the trance scene the labels need support, work with them rather than against them.

quote:

Originally posted by keithos27 excuse my ignorance, but is there really a noticable difference between 320 and 192? or only in a large place like a club? just curious... -keith

i would imagine that extra data would have been removed in the 192 rip. if more data is lost, then there is less data that can be amplified via the club sound system. also, the encoder you use would affect the sound, but i can't remember the research detailing the findings...

in any case, wouldn't you be too fucked to notice the difference anyway?

quote:

Originally posted by Frase Its the sad old point that people still feel its their unborn right to listen to music without paying for it. I know loads will come back with the excuse "if i couldnt download it, i would never have it, as i would not buy it, so they loose no cash to me..." blah blah blah In other words, you dont want it if its not free. And if large groups of people are allowed to get their music under that premise, there will be no music industry other than Pop Idol. People need to realise that to get more good music out in the trance scene the labels need support, work with them rather than against them.

If it weren't for filesharing, I probably wouldn't know of half the EDM artists that I do. I download a lot, but I also buy a lot if I like what I hear. While people need to realize that the artists/labels/producers need monitary support, the artists/labels/producers also need to realize that if it weren't for mp3s, many of their tracks wouldn't be as popular as they are. At least for the lesser known artists/labels/producers. mp3s are a double edged sword. The smaller guys love em because they get their music out there fast, but the big dogs hate it because they know that their music will be heard regardless of mp3 rips of their tracks.

quote:

Originally posted by bagguley We are now pursuing Digital Signature on each CDR so that we can trace this problem in the future!!!

I hope this works out for you. It would be good to know who the offender is...

quote:

Originally posted by bruddahmanmatt If it weren't for filesharing, I probably wouldn't know of half the EDM artists that I do. I download a lot, but I also buy a lot if I like what I hear. While people need to realize that the artists/labels/producers need monitary support, the artists/labels/producers also need to realize that if it weren't for mp3s, many of their tracks wouldn't be as popular as they are. At least for the lesser known artists/labels/producers. mp3s are a double edged sword. The smaller guys love em because they get their music out there fast, but the big dogs hate it because they know that their music will be heard regardless of mp3 rips of their tracks.

Thats merely as a publicity tool, personally i find out all my tracks from livesets not from the full vinyl rips.

But whether or you not agree people still have the view "as i would not buy it, so they loose no cash to me.." which in turn says they wouldnt want it as it isnt free.

Also the fact that people say that they support the artists, which is good but there is still a majority that doesn't support the scene.

Its probably the same people that think their opinion counts for something.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller i only thing i hate about CDs is that they scratch so easily. i know that vinyl isn't the best at that as it slowly deteriorates, but i alwas have scratches all over my cds and then they suck! what do you do about that Nell?

put them back in their cases when you are done with them! i've got a shti load of CD's as you know, very few have scratches (less than 10). if you insist on leaving them out on your desk or whatever, put them silver side up. if you want to repair scratches either do it the cheap way by rubbing toothpaste into them, or you can have you cd recovered by removing hte plastic on the bottom side (so theres just the paper like metalic disc left) and having it resurfaced with new plastic (but thats only worht it if the disc is unreplacable).

WTF!?!

this is the most bullshit thread i've ever read on TA! wtf is the matter with half of you? no one gives a fuck about your opinions... trust me on that one.

the bottom line is this: the people who run 'mp3 release groups' are people who get their greasy hands on promo material and make mp3 rips out of them, right? i'm sure you all knew that...

so it is simple to make the connection that mp3 release groups are entirely responsible for the illegal uploading/download/sharing of music.

if you want to stop all this, you have to 'nip it in the bud', as they say, you have to solve the issue at the root of the problem.

ELIMINATE MP3 RELEASE GROUPS and you end it all. you end the utter decimation of electronica and you solve the problem.

getting mad at a DJ for spinning a track he/she got online is fucking WEAK. that's one lame ass place to channel your anger...

in the end, the DJ is not responsible for anything; the mp3 release groups are entirely to blame.

-KidConscious aka Streetlight

p.s.: i have given you the solution, but don't reply asking 'how should we do this' because i do not know and ultimately, i do not care. i download loads mp3s and i'll continue doing it. i'm simply telling you that being angry at a DJ for playing unreleased music is pathetic... good luck with your problem though

Re: WTF!?!

quote:

Originally posted by KidConscious this is the most bullshit thread i've ever read on TA! wtf is the matter with half of you? no one gives a fuck about your opinions... trust me on that one.

Then no one cares about yours either.

Re: Re: WTF!?!

quote:

Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie Then no one cares about yours either.

oh that's real clever... but obviously you do, i mean, you're still replying!

Re: WTF!?!

quote:

Originally posted by KidConscious this is the most bullshit thread i've ever read on TA! wtf is the matter with half of you? no one gives a fuck about your opinions... trust me on that one. the bottom line is this: the people who run 'mp3 release groups' are people who get their greasy hands on promo material and make mp3 rips out of them, right? i'm sure you all knew that... so it is simple to make the connection that mp3 release groups are entirely responsible for the illegal uploading/download/sharing of music. if you want to stop all this, you have to 'nip it in the bud', as they say, you have to solve the issue at the root of the problem. ELIMINATE MP3 RELEASE GROUPS and you end it all. you end the utter decimation of electronica and you solve the problem. getting mad at a DJ for spinning a track he/she got online is fucking WEAK. that's one lame ass place to channel your anger... in the end, the DJ is not responsible for anything; the mp3 release groups are entirely to blame. -KidConscious aka Streetlight p.s.: i have given you the solution, but don't reply asking 'how should we do this' because i do not know and ultimately, i do not care. i download loads mp3s and i'll continue doing it. i'm simply telling you that being angry at a DJ for playing unreleased music is pathetic... good luck with your problem though

Some good points made, but your just as bad as these release groups as you put down as you said... 'i do not care. i download loads mp3s and i'll continue doing it'

You couldn't be more hypocritical

yup

you caught me. i'm a hypocrit when it comes to this matter. you see, i have limited funds when it comes to recreation. i spend my money on music when i can, but the fact of the matter is, my primary source of music is online filesharing.

it is sad, and i'm upset that these mp3 release groups are ruining the electronic scene for the artists, but let me say this:

music is a form art. art is a form of expression, it has been since the dawn of time. music, as an artform, reaches the public and enhances cultural merit in society. music really shouldn't be about money. are we that sad, as a species, that we must place a monitary value on human expression? i say support your favorite artists when you can afford it, but don't forget that music is an art and art is above such a trivial matter as money.

in the end, while i might be a hypocrit, i think we can all agree that being angry at a DJ for sharing new music with the masses for listening purposes is just plain stupid.

you can all sit here and say: 'oh, well i'm a saint and filesharing is wrong!' but i'm being a realist. filesharing robs the artists of money they deserve (well... some of them) but most people are totally dependant on it - including myself.

what about the djs who get FREE promos all the time. they arent paying for it. alot of people are happy to get their music played @ no charge.

conscious...

you know what? there is a difference of course between a professional dj and a fan of the music. no one expects someone that isn't doing it professionally to buy every single record that comes out. just do what you can to support the scene that you love...whether it be going to the shows and buying the cds or buying vinyl.

the difference is when you are a professional or an aspiring dj and you are taking material that hasn't been released and you don't own and using it. that's fucked up.

Re: WTF!?!

quote:

Originally posted by KidConscious this is the most bullshit thread i've ever read on TA! wtf is the matter with half of you? no one gives a fuck about your opinions... trust me on that one. the bottom line is this: the people who run 'mp3 release groups' are people who get their greasy hands on promo material and make mp3 rips out of them, right? i'm sure you all knew that... ELIMINATE MP3 RELEASE GROUPS and you end it all. you end the utter decimation of electronica and you solve the problem. KidConscious aka Streetlight p.s.: i have given you the solution, but don't reply asking 'how should we do this' because i do not know and ultimately, i do not care. i download loads mp3s and i'll continue doing it.

mp3 release groups?? there is no such thing! Anyone with Nero can change a wave file to an MP3. You can't stop the millions & millions of people who have Nero to stop creating MP3s.

quote:

Originally posted by bagguley As for the issue of it being my fault!!??!! Promotion of a track is very difficult in the current climate. How can we not send out any copies!?!? The track would fall on its arse!!! How many of you listen to ASOT and really want the tracks Armin plays.. this is how tracks gain hype.. we need to send tracks out.. the problem now seems that some of the A - B list DJ's we supply with music feel the need to upload and share it..

Like I said, unless you keep a track bottled up until the day of its release there is a chance that someone with a promo copy will upload the mp3. This is an unfortunate but unavoidable fact of life. But you're already looking into digital signatures, which is a great solution.

i don't think that a track is inevitably gonna get ripped if you send out copies of it. hell, there are a lot of tracks out there that i can think of that are only on promo or even released that haven't been ripped and made widely available. it just depends on the people you're sending it to.

Complaining about mp3 leaks is a little like complaining about crime. Sure it sucks, but it's a fact of life and you have to do what you can to make yourself less likely to be a victim.
The idea of making a tweak to each release so you can identify the leak would be the best thing I've read on this thread. This ties in with keeping your promo group to a small and trusted group.
mp3's aren't going away, so consider how you could work this to some sort of advantage. As much as some people like to look down on cd players, I for one almost always pick up a cd single over a record when i can. Since they cost in the range 1/3 to 1/2 the price of a record, and really the selection of music I have is a bigger issue for me than any format issues, it's an obvious choice. That said, those tracks I have on both I usually play on 12" (it's more fun).
You mentioned also the cost of pressing vinyl, so maybe cd's are a more effective medium, and probably more profitable. Consider something like beatport with the mail-out CD-R service. So long as you can overcome their huge freight charge (ie use regular postal services as an option for those of us out in the colonies) I could see myself buying very regularly.
The biggest advantage of this is you could get the time between promo and general release time down, so less time for the desperate folk to resort to mp3 when a better quality version is available.

I think both sides of the picture have good arguments and bad arguements, so I'll try to add my 2 cents.

IMO, it is ultimately the producers/labels/artists responsibility with whatever tracks they produce or sign. The ball is in their court as they can do what they want with the music. If promo or advance tracks are sent out, these people are responsible for who they send the track to and must be aware of the possibility that the track could get ripped (most likely by a release group) and put on the internet. If a track gets ripped like this, the producers have no right to bitch and whine because they know the risks. If they are going to throw a hissy fit, then the track should not be sent out like that and locked in a damn safe until the release date. I'm sure there are other ways of promoting music other than the tradition of handing out promos.

Bagguley, earlier in the post you said that tracks get sent to A and B list people. Who might this be? People as high up as Tiesto possibly? Why would any people of this callibur have the time, energy, or the want-to to rip the tracks? Just wandering.

Lets be honest, most of the people on this board dl illegally, its just the way things are and its not going to change anytime soon, if at all. Any track I dl I try to go out and buy it whenever it gets released, so whenever Alaska come out I will go out and buy it. Personally I like to dl tracks so I can play them and figure out how it will fit into a set so the mp3s help out a lot.

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