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-- So my wife came home today . .
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dude, stop crying.

Just talk to her and ask her when will she be ready for a kid.

In the meanwhile practice plenty (and rough) that'll teach her


I keeeeed I keeeed

i had to go to a business thing today, and it was a 2 hour car drive, so i called her.

i asked her why she's doing this, she said she was scared. scared of the big resposibility.

i asked her when would she be ready for it?
she said she doesn't know.

i told her nothing it going to change too much respolsibility wise from now to when we retire. told her how much fun the kid will have, how much it will make us better people, bring us closer, and how much i love her. how much she needs to consider that we can support this kid, we can handle it, if not now, when? now is as good as any time.

and that if she can't go throguh with it, convince me WHY she can't have a baby, my baby. she coulnd't think of one reason. she startd crying and saying how sorry she was. i'm at a job right now, it's 10:40 and i won't be home until tomrrow night.

i can't thank you guys for helping.

hopefully this will all turn out good in the end

quote:

Originally posted by enferno i had to go to a business thing today, and it was a 2 hour car drive, so i called her. i asked her why she's doing this, she said she was scared. scared of the big resposibility. i asked her when would she be ready for it? she said she doesn't know. i told her nothing it going to change too much respolsibility wise from now to when we retire. told her how much fun the kid will have, how much it will make us better people, bring us closer, and how much i love her. how much she needs to consider that we can support this kid, we can handle it, if not now, when? now is as good as any time. and that if she can't go throguh with it, convince me WHY she can't have a baby, my baby. she coulnd't think of one reason. she startd crying and saying how sorry she was. i'm at a job right now, it's 10:40 and i won't be home until tomrrow night. i can't thank you guys for helping. hopefully this will all turn out good in the end

Sounds like you are handling this the best that you can in your situation. Just continue to be positive and show her how much you love her and how much you want to have this child with her. I sincerely hope things work out for you. This is something that no one should have to go through with someone that they love.

Man, if my wife was pregnant and told me she wanted an abortion, honestly... I would probably just stand there in shock with tears in my eyes.

enferno, I hope you and your wife do have this child its the greatest thing 2 people who love each other can do. As for your wife being scared, everyone is scared about having their first child, its very normal. Im happy you guys are sorting it out and she is having second thoughts about the abortion.

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Proximus Just out of curiosity to all of you: why should he be the one to have the ultimate decision?

On the same note, why should she? You have to admit the scales are very much tipped in favor of the mother.

But back to the topic, she might have rushed herself to the decision. I'm assuming she's has to be at least pretty alright for to have married her, yeah? So perhaps it is as it is with other people in shocking situation: when it comes up, you reject it. When I first Moved to the US, i was very much against it, because it was a shock and very different from what I was used to. The more I though about it, though, the better the decision looked, the more it oppurtunities it seemed to represent.

So it might be that it's just her initial Shock reaction. If not, and she does go through with the abortion, then you have a lot of thinking and decision making ahead of you, bud.

Best wishes though, hope it works out for the best, either way it goes.

Good luck with everything man, I can't say anything that any of the other posters on your side haven't already said. I hope things go your way.

1 important thing though enferno. don't be too forceful or pushy sounding about the child since you, her and even us know that you are all for having the child and it's the right time and situation to have one. but afterall, she's still scared, she's just like any of us. to say 'face your fear' is easier than actually facing it. be supportive, let her know that you're by her and maybe she wouldn't be scared anymore. you know, sometimes human beings are hard to understand, otherwise everything would be so easy to deal with. the positive thing right now, is that the baby is still alive. i wish your family good luck, and hopefully us TA will be able to see a picture of your baby some time soon!

I don't want to sound like a council? here but I think you should get both pencil and paper.

Write both you +/- points on a piece of paper. Do this seperated because you obvisiously both avoid each other when it comes to talking about point. Use a timetable the pregnancy, the birth, raising the kid till it goes to school and the period after it when you both will get more time on your hands.

You don't even have to ask her to do it just ass long she can read the paper without you being around. Just leave it on her desk or something.

Just my thought

Enferno, you have no idea how much I am rooting for you on this one.

I can't get your situation out of my head.

Like some of the people here have said, dont be too pushy...


and i think my girlfriend really enlightened me when she put emphasis on a woman being afraid of having a baby and how that changes EVERYTHING.....i think us guys sometimes over look that.

You can do this man, the fact she cried and said she was sorry is a good sign. Be there for her, and be there for your child........cuz it's growing man, inside of her.

In these quiet moments is when the decision of a lifetime is going to be made...

good luck

Re: So my wife came home today . .

quote:

Originally posted by enferno And tells me she doesn't want the baby. I'm not against abortion, but if it's MY child, I am sure as hell fucking against it. Now she's saying that she can do whatever she wants, and is threatening to get an abortion . . what the fuck do i do?

If she decides on the abortion you need to not beat around the bush and be very direct with her because you have a limited amount of time to prevent this from happening.

Try this, take her back in time. Her mom and dad find out they are pregnant with her. But they don't feel exactly like they are ready. What should they do, kill her, or let her be born and accept the responsibility that they have taken on? My guess is she would rather be alive than murdered before she is born. This situation is no different, she is either going to have a child or kill one.

Honestly, if she has the abortion I would divorce her immediately. Anyone who would do that without even considering your opinion is not someone you should be married to.

I was 23 and my wife was 21 when we found out she was pregnant. Did we think we were ready? Hell no, but you learn pretty quick.

If it comes down to it you need to tell he that if she goes that route there will be consequences for her actions:
1. She is a murderer, no way around it
2. It will end your marriage because you cannot be married to someone who would murder a defenseless unborn child

Re: Re: So my wife came home today . .

quote:

Originally posted by XaNaX 1. She is a murderer, no way around it 2. It will end your marriage because you cannot be married to someone who would murder a defenseless unborn child

the drama!!! cry me a river man.

Two things:

1) Your wife isn't carrying a child, she's carrying a fetus. It is not a person and does not have the rights of a person. Until it is developed enough to exist in its own right (20+ weeks) it should not possess these rights. As a "potential person", extracting it from the uterus is no more a crime or a tragedy than ejaculation or ovulation (which also aborts the development of "potential people").

2) Given this, until the fetus can be classified as a seperate person, it exists as a part of your wife's body and you have no more dominion over it than you do any of her other organs. You cannot force her to endure 9 months of pregnancy and then 18 years of child rearing against her will - this is immoral and unlawful by any definition.

Ultimately I think you need to think this through a bit better. Arbiter hit the nail on the head when he suggested that that the world doesn't revolve around your every whim and desire - she has perfectly valid reasons for aborting the development of the fetus (her career, her development, her life) and you should be ashamed of yourself for heaping so much guilt on her for making what is already a very tough decision. She is the one that has to live with the consequences of pregnancy, not you, so I fail to see why you should be included in the decision.

My advice would be to stop being so egotistical and try seeing the entire issue from your wife's point of view.

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Your wife isn't carrying a child, she's carrying a fetus. It is not a person and does not have the rights of a person. Until it is developed enough to exist in its own right (20+ weeks) it should not possess these rights. As a "potential person", extracting it from the uterus is no more a crime or a tragedy than ejaculation or ovulation (which also aborts the development of "potential people").

Except its not just ejaculation or ovulation, because these things are seperate entities. A fetus (also known as an unborn CHILD) has started the life process at conception (the joining of egg/sperm). Do I need to run back through 5th grade health class with you???

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Two things: 1) Your wife isn't carrying a child, she's carrying a fetus. It is not a person and does not have the rights of a person. Until it is developed enough to exist in its own right (20+ weeks) it should not possess these rights. As a "potential person", extracting it from the uterus is no more a crime or a tragedy than ejaculation or ovulation (which also aborts the development of "potential people"). 2) Given this, until the fetus can be classified as a seperate person, it exists as a part of your wife's body and you have no more dominion over it than you do any of her other organs. You cannot force her to endure 9 months of pregnancy and then 18 years of child rearing against her will - this is immoral and unlawful by any definition. Ultimately I think you need to think this through a bit better. Arbiter hit the nail on the head when he suggested that that the world doesn't revolve around your every whim and desire - she has perfectly valid reasons for aborting the development of the fetus (her career, her development, her life) and you should be ashamed of yourself for heaping so much guilt on her for making what is already a very tough decision. She is the one that has to live with the consequences of pregnancy, not you, so I fail to see why you should be included in the decision. My advice would be to stop being so egotistical and try seeing the entire issue from your wife's point of view.

OMG. Go to a feminism seminar or something, really. There are pictures that indicate "fetuses" with their mouths wide open screaming as they are being "aborted" within the time limit you so succinctly put down. There is a reason why abortion is so controversial. Although it may be cut and dry in your mind, it isn't to everyone else. I have no rights to tell any woman what she should or shouldn't do in these circumstances, but you have to understand why this guy is upset about the situation.

I think arguing over whether fetus, human, person, zygote, whatever just does what it was trying to do in taking away the fact you are taking a life. Point is, it sure as heck isnt dead, and the only real way for it to be is you making it go away. I went through the philosophy dpt at my college too, and I had to sit there and argue abortion and everything here is about what the law and constitution can protect as far as "persons" go. The law doesnt protect rocks, etc...

To argue on that basis is very amoral of you.

also...define "person" guarantee your definition will make it legal to kill everyone under 22 and over 60

make no mistake, there's a live little baby in there

there's plenty of sites with pics

yep, someone plz close this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by malek yep, someone plz close this thread.

agreed... PM him with advice, you won't find much mroe good advice here

Re: Re: Re: So my wife came home today . .

quote:

Originally posted by malek the drama!!! cry me a river man.

Got kids? I would guess not. I would do anything to prevent my wife from killing my unborn child.

enfernos kind of done with this thread, i can tell. why not debate

Yeah. This one's pretty dead now. Good luck! Sounds like everything will work out in the end. I sure hope so. I will pray for you as well, even though it sounds cliche and I could get ripped for it. Doesn't matter. Just hope the end result is a good one for you.

Re: Re: Re: Re: So my wife came home today . .

quote:

Originally posted by XaNaX Got kids? I would guess not. I would do anything to prevent my wife from killing my unborn child.

cut her open and save the "child" ???

quote:

Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie A fetus (also known as an unborn CHILD) has started the life process at conception (the joining of egg/sperm). Do I need to run back through 5th grade health class with you???

It may have "started the life process", but how does that entitle it to special rights not given to sperm and ovum which are also alive and - in some very real sense - "unborn children"? Does an "unborn child" require two cells rather than one before it has any rights? Wouldn't you say that that was a rather arbitrary classification?

There is a point at which the life growing inside the woman has the same rights as a human being (the point at which it is developed enough to survive as an independent being - 22+ weeks) but that point is not in the zygotic or early-fetal stages. An abortion prior to this point simply constitutes the removal of human tissue from the human body - it is no more immoral than ovulating or having an appendix removed. Both of these things are human and alive, but are not people, so why should a fetus - which is the same in this regard - have rights not granted to these parts of the body?

quote:

OMG. Go to a feminism seminar or something, really.

What does this discussion have to do with feminism? I'm a humanist, not a feminist.

quote:

There are pictures that indicate "fetuses" with their mouths wide open screaming as they are being "aborted" within the time limit you so succinctly put down.

Yes. Poorly faked pictures.

Facial features don't even start developing until 12 weeks and the development of the muscles and organs necessary to "scream" don't develop until much later.

quote:

There is a reason why abortion is so controversial. Although it may be cut and dry in your mind, it isn't to everyone else.

And people are free to come to their own conclusions! I'm not saying abortion is a "good" thing - no-one on the planet is "pro-abortion" - I'm just saying that it is a personal choice and it is not a decision that anyone has the right to step in and prevent until the fetus attains personhood. Enferno's wife's stance on abortion is every bit as valid as your mine or his, but my point is that she's the one with the fetus and so - regardless of what we all think - it is her decision.

I would never encourage her to have an abortion (or dissuade her from having one for that matter) but ultimately the choice is hers and hers alone. That's all I'm trying to say.

quote:

I have no rights to tell any woman what she should or shouldn't do in these circumstances

Then what are we arguing about?

quote:

but you have to understand why this guy is upset about the situation.

I do, but I'm also trying to tell him that he has to think beyond his own immediate view-point for a second. Besides, if he wanted to have a child that badly, what's stopping them from trying for another one in the future when they're both ready?

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax also...define "person" guarantee your definition will make it legal to kill everyone under 22 and over 60

Personhood is attained at the point in which the fetus is capable of surviving independently from the mother. It's a grey area, admittedly, but it's usually somewhere between 22 and 28 weeks, sometimes later. The solution? Ban all abortions after 22 weeks. Everyone wins.

Why oh why must threads here always get off the original topic.

JaY

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