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-- Ok, my girlfriend has a girlfriend
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Originally posted by Arbiter That's why I brought trust into the discussion earlier. You have to trust someone not to get an STD or cause a pregnancy. Sure: it's possible that it could happen anyway. But you don't tell them they can't drive because it's possible they could get into a car crash.

So - not sleeping with others is usually implicit in the rules of commitment (until decided otherwise, or in exceptional cases), so, once the trust is broken by not following this rule, you can't trust in other issues, such as the STD thing.

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Originally posted by Falcon-X You just proved my point. This is your opinion wich is clearly not the majority and it it YOUR personal matter. So dont try to establish a general principle and thus your opinion is meaningless

You obviously don't understand this discussion at all.

I'll go over it again for you:

I claimed that:

Insecurity is the most plausible explanation for possessive behavior in relationships.

Then you and others have avoided coming up with an alternative explanation and made the argument that insecurity is good or OK in this situation. That is a red herring: meaning that it has no relevance to my original claim whatsoever, and is an attempt to change the subject.

Nevertheless, I've taken the position that insecurity isn't good in this situation. I haven't tried whatsoever to establish that this as a general principle[b] - but others in this thread [b]have tried to establish the benefits of insecurity as a general principle. However, this argument can't be supported by feelings as they are a personal matter, and it can't be supported by "a majority" since that is logically irrelevant.

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Originally posted by albertoR oh please cut the bullshit ffs... Im sure that if your girlfriend cheated on you with another guy you would mind, no matter how possesive you are or arent. You wouldnt feel hurt? you wouldnt feel embarrased she switched dicks on you? you wouldnt feel humiliated? you wouldnt feel insecure? you have no feelings when it comes to sex? you sound more like dog than a human to me since only an animal could relate to your points of view.

Ignored. You can't back your positions up with anything but ad hominems. Please learn some basic logic before you post.

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Originally posted by Falcon-X Would it be fair to ask that the other take an std's test after each time she sleeps with someone else.

Yes, it would be "fair" to ask anything you want. It would be fair for you to decide to break up because the other slept with someone else. You are also free to do what you want, not just your significant other.

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Originally posted by Arbiter but others in this thread have tried to establish the benefits of insecurity as a general principlelogically irrelevant.

Not insecurity, commitment

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Originally posted by Lira So - not sleeping with others is usually implicit in the rules of commitment (until decided otherwise, or in exceptional cases), so, once the trust is broken by not following this rule, you can't trust in other issues, such as the STD thing.

Obviously if they just go out and sleep with someone else without telling you it might be a good idea not to trust them. But if you ask me, if you can't trust them you shouldn't be sleeping with them at all, anyway. You can if you like, but you're playing a dangerous game.

But if they tell you they don't consider a monogamous relationship to be a part of their commitment, then you haven't got a reason not to trust them (at least, not on that basis alone).

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Originally posted by Arbiter Ignored. You can't back your positions up with anything but ad hominems. Please learn some basic logic before you post.

This thread has nothing to do with logic, but with reason. Learn to reason before you post.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Obviously if they just go out and sleep with someone else without telling you it might be a good idea not to trust them. But if you ask me, if you can't trust them you shouldn't be sleeping with them at all, anyway. You can if you like, but you're playing a dangerous game. But if they tell you they don't consider a monogamous relationship to be a part of their commitment, then you haven't got a reason not to trust them (at least, not on that basis alone).

So you think they will tell you ''honey I'm gooing out to sleep with joe, see you in a few hours''

Come on you make no sense at all

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Originally posted by Arbiter But if they tell you they don't consider a monogamous relationship to be a part of their commitment, then you haven't got a reason not to trust them (at least, not on that basis alone).

So, as far as we've read, he had not been told. Once he aknowledged the fact his girlfriend had got a girlfriend, he thought it was nice at first and now he finds it bizarre.

In any case, that's up to him now, and I admit his girlfriend's girlfriend is really fit, so I would be tempted to bang 'em all, although part of me would tell me not to.

look all i said was that if a guy is feeling a little bit weird and not comfortable with sharing his girlfriend, that it does not make him generally insecure...because i think about 99.9% of the population, or anyone w/ a pulse for that matter would be upset as well...not making them overall insecure. you keep pointing out that you were making points about this particular situation...well then, you are just proving OUR point which is that it is normal to feel insecure or possessive when it comes to sharing someone (sexually) you love with someone else (the situation being talked about). it's human nature.


but yea, overall possessiveness for no reason does in fact mean you are insecure. i agree with that...that's obvious though and common knowledge for anyone who took psych 101.

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Originally posted by Falcon-X Not insecurity, commitment

I don't disagree that there are benefits to commitment. But I think that there's a difference between commitment and possessiveness. A commitment can mean a lot of things: you can be committed to the health and well-being of your significant other. You can be committed to a monogamous relationship. You can even be committed to stamping out illiteracy.

It isn't act of commitment itself that is in question here, it's the choice of what to commit to. And the question I have is:

If not to satisfy insecurity, then why do so many people choose to commit to monogamous relationships? (Once again, the creation of a family aside: that is a good reason).

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Originally posted by albertoR This thread has nothing to do with logic, but with reason. Learn to reason before you post.

Well, your reasoning is fallacious: so what does that say about you?

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Originally posted by Falcon-X So you think they will tell you ''honey I'm gooing out to sleep with joe, see you in a few hours'' Come on you make no sense at all

Did you read the first post of this thread? It implies to me that his girlfriend told him that she was going to have another girlfriend.

A different situation would have to be handled differently. But that's not the topic of this discussion.

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Originally posted by Lira So, as far as we've read, he had not been told. Once he aknowledged the fact his girlfriend had got a girlfriend, he thought it was nice at first and now he finds it bizarre. In any case, that's up to him now, and I admit his girlfriend's girlfriend is really fit, so I would be tempted to bang 'em all, although part of me would tell me not to.

Well he came to know at some point and had no objection: hence his having said that he thought it "was going to be cool."

im not the one getting owned in every other post my friend. So i think the one with fallacious reason here is none other than you.

You dont answer my questions, you disregard them because if you answer them you prove me right and prove yourself wrong (which is totally unacceptable).Call it quits, i know i will, you're hopeless.

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Originally posted by Slylee look all i said was that if a guy is feeling a little bit weird and not comfortable with sharing his girlfriend, that it does not make him generally insecure...because i think about 99.9% of the population, or anyone w/ a pulse for that matter would be upset as well...not making them overall insecure. you keep pointing out that you were making points about this particular situation...well then, you are just proving OUR point which is that it is normal to feel insecure or possessive when it comes to sharing someone (sexually) you love with someone else (the situation being talked about). it's human nature. but yea, overall possessiveness for no reason does in fact mean you are insecure. i agree with that...that's obvious though and common knowledge for anyone who took psych 101.

Thanks for this: a reasonable post. I don't disagree that it is normal to feel insecure. I don't claim that I wouldn't feel insecure about some situations I might be in. It's normal and can even be healthy - in the right amount.

I can only assume that you took my referring to it as "insecurity" to be calling it "insecure" in a pejorative sense. That's not exactly correct. While in a perfect world, there would be no reason to be insecure. In our imperfect world, there are good reasons to be insecure. In this particular situation, I think he may be more insecure than is beneficial to him, and that he should try to step back and look at the situation rationally.

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Originally posted by albertoR im not the one getting owned in every other post my friend. So i think the one with fallacious reason here is none other than you. You dont answer my questions, you disregard them because if you answer them you prove me right and prove yourself wrong (which is totally unacceptable).Call it quits, i know i will, you're hopeless.

If I'm "getting owned" then state the specific rational fallacy which I have committed. I pointed out what, specifically, was fallacious about your reasoning: that is, it is based on ad hominem and red herring arguments. If you can't do the same to me, then I can only assume that my reasoning isn't fallacious.

glad i made such a great discussion topic

quote:

Originally posted by Gordy glad i made such a great discussion topic

so are you upset by this? cause your post wasnt really conveying that, so much as it is weird for them to be together. isnt your girlfriend cheating on your with someone else a bigger deal?

i agree with slylee. if you care about your partner (for either person) you'll want to just be with that person. the only reason she has this girlfriend is because its something that you allow. if you told her that you didn't like it, then you'd find out how she really feels about you because she'll either take you over this chick or decide that she is too busy having fun to commit to you. either way, it's probably better to find out soon, just to save yourself the pain and anxiety in the long run.

Relationships must be a mutual thing. Possession of another can only lead to mistrust and an unequal dispersion of those personal feelings and subsequent roles (read: limits). Feelings, of course, being in the literal sense (sex) and in the emotional sense (love). After all, sex is something you KNOW happens - love is just a precept of the blind. Each day you wake up beside your partner, there should always be the ability to walk away and be with another - societal limitations and personal inhibitons should never hamper this need to flirt with the world. What true beauty comes down to, in this case, is waking up next to your love each day and making that daily committment. Your partner should never be a hinderance to your experience, but rather, an enhancement to your being - a consummation of the beauty in the union two people converge souls with to form a single, perfect essence.

Love should never be limited - I believe this is the point Arbiter is drilling into all of you who seem to have your hands covering your eyes and ears.

If your partner chooses to sleep around - that's just fine: if they cannot see the reason to remain faithful to you, do them a favor and don't be a burden on them. If you meet that one person who completes you, that one person who makes your life worth living, that one person who is so devoted to your union that they see no justifiable reason to sleep around, not for fear of social retribution, but for fear of lessening their devotion to you, then you have found true love. Your actions should perfectly mimic this one, perfect person's as well - a union that transcends perfection.

It's a beautiful thought, a general principle - an ideal that all relationships should be based upon. Does it exist? I've witnessed no such thing before. But life is struggling; struggling is striving - and if you live for love, then there should be no issue in understanding that love is striving to meet this precept.

quote:

Originally posted by butterfly so are you upset by this? cause your post wasnt really conveying that, so much as it is weird for them to be together. isnt your girlfriend cheating on your with someone else a bigger deal?

Yeah I actually found his indifference to his gf cheating on him the "weird" part. Must be a very shallow relationship.

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow Yeah I actually found his indifference to his gf cheating on him the "weird" part. Must be a very shallow relationship.

so not true



i was just stating that its just wierd, me having never been in a relationship like this. i told her from the start girls dont bother me, but never really thought she would get into a relationship with one. i dunno, i just dont really know how to feel about this.

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