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-- Caught on Video:Savage destruction of a church by muslims
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quote:

Originally posted by occrider Ummm yea ok guy, you can go to the Bosnian Serb government's website yourself and download the final report. http://www.vladars.net/en/pm/index.html

This was done to get trade from the EU.

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf This was done to get trade from the EU.

Yes of course. Don't mind me, I'm just an agent of the Jewish media doing my job. But I believe your baseless assertions.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Ah yes ... it was only a matter of time before the ad hominems came out.

It was a matter of time till you were exposed

quote:

The final report plus the addendum to the final report are a combined 70 pages or so. THe addendum contains the official government records. Heh ironically enough the preliminary report that you like to defend gets its sources from UN studies and studies that other groups have done. Those groups have since pointed out the preliminary's reports distortions of the original facts:

The so called final report is for the propaganda use of the Hague court . Needles to say it's travesty of justice and used only as a propaganda tool. Now since the original document presents such things as physical facts it stands higher ground than jewish authored and edited war propaganda piece.There is too much distortion without any proof that would stand and no mention of hundreds of civilians who were butchered around Srebrenica. It's a classical jewish plot of distorting the truth and undermining other victims and funded by jews from US government as well as some oligarchs like George Soros.

quote:

Ummm yea ok guy, you can go to the Bosnian Serb government's website yourself and download the final report. http://www.vladars.net/en/pm/index.html

again you give the same distorted document that can't be proven at all. just a bunch of innuendo and war propaganda. It requires far more detail to be taken seriously and it offers none and that's for purpose because they want to use for propaganda purposes. I've listened to lots of jewsish propaganda living here and in states and You are just another propagator of it. It's on that serbian site just because the whole bosnia is occupied by nato. Nato ordered it be put there. Nato as a whole definitely has no credibility in the balkans but just military might.
I think this article explains well manipulations about this report

http://antiwar.com/malic/?articleid=2865
http://www.antiwar.com/malic/m072002.html

more
http://www.antiwar.com/srebrenica.html

quote:

Originally posted by erdega It was a matter of time till you were exposed

Yes of course ... I am an integral component of the media conspiracy as you know.

quote:

The so called final report is for the propaganda use of the Hague court . Needles to say it's travesty of justice and used only as a propaganda tool. Now since the original document presents such things as physical facts it stands higher ground than jewish authored and edited war propaganda piece.There is too much distortion without any proof that would stand and no mention of hundreds of civilians who were butchered around Srebrenica. It's a classical jewish plot of distorting the truth and undermining other victims and funded by jews from US government as well as some oligarchs like George Soros.

The preliminary report cited sources from other investigations who summarily rejected the preliminary report as having distorted their findings. How is that a presentation of the physical facts if the people they got their facts from say that preliminary report manipulated their data?

quote:

again you give the same distorted document that can't be proven at all. just a bunch of innuendo and war propaganda. It requires far more detail to be taken seriously and it offers none and that's for purpose because they want to use for propaganda purposes. I've listened to lots of jewsish propaganda living here and in states and You are just another propagator of it. It's on that serbian site just because the whole bosnia is occupied by nato. Nato ordered it be put there. Nato as a whole definitely has no credibility in the balkans but just military might.

Haha I see. Now that you can't refute the claim the final document is the product of the Bosnian Serb government's commission on Srebenia you do the next best thing by saying that NATO forced the Serbian government to release it to the public. Who would have thought that you would have taken that route?

quote:

I think this article explains well manipulations about this report http://antiwar.com/malic/?articleid=2865 http://www.antiwar.com/malic/m072002.html more http://www.antiwar.com/srebrenica.html

Hmmm it's funny you should use antiwar as your source material. I actually followed one of the links antiwar used to justify its argument and surprise surprise, one of their referenced sources is the report released in April 2002 by the Netherlands Institute for War Documentation on Srebenica:

http://www.srebrenica.nl/en/a_index.htm

If we read a part of the full report what do we find?

quote:

3. The motives for the executions As a wartime objective of the Bosnian Serbs, Srebrenica was not different to any other target: ethnic cleansing would be applied to bring about an ethnically homogenous region. However, the extent to which the population would fall victim to this policy took on unprecedented proportions, giving rise to widespread astonishment and disbelief. After all, UNPROFOR forces were there and it was their duty to break the spiral of violence into which the civilian population had been plunged. How was it possible that the war could nevertheless sink into the depths of sheer barbarism? Originally, the primary objective of the VRS military operation which began on the 6th of July was to limit the territory of the Srebrenica enclave and to create an intolerable situation for the population within. In the fullness of time, this strategy would lead to such hardships that the population would be forced to move on elsewhere. The original plan of operation 'Kravija 95' made no provision for the civilian population whatsoever, although it did explicitly stipulate that the usual rules and conventions of war should apply. When the decision to take the entire enclave was made on the 9th of July, no guidelines for dealing with the civilians existed other than to state that the safety of the people in the area controlled by the VRS or the Bosnian Serb police should be guaranteed.[1] The question of why the executions took place at all is not easy to answer. During the Krstic trial before the Yugoslavia Tribunal, the prosecution's military advisor, Richard Butler, pointed out in taking this course of action, the Bosnian Serbs deprived themselves of an extremely valuable bargaining counter. Butler suggested that the Bosnian Serbs would have had far more to gain had they taken the men in Potocari as prisoners of war, under the supervision of the International Red Cross and the UN troops still in the area. It might then have been possible to enter into some sort of exchange deal or they might have been able to force political concessions.[2] Based on this reasoning, the ensuing mass murder defied rational explanation. There is no surviving documentation concerning the organization of the executions. Indeed, it is unlikely that any orders so flagrantly flouting humanitarian law would be committed to paper in the first place. Even during the Krstic trial, it proved impossible to answer the question of when the decision to kill the men had been taken. The judges could not exclude the possibility that plans for the executions were originally hatched by the General Staff of the VRS, and that the Drina Corps which actually carried out the attack on Srebrenica had not been consulted about them beforehand. The Tribunal found that there was sufficient evidence to link Krstic with the organization of the removal of the women and children from Potocari, but that there was insufficient evidence that he actually made any arrangements for the executions. Because the Tribunal was unable to establish the date on which the decision to execute all able-bodied men was taken, it could not be determined whether the murders in Potocari on the 12 and 13 of July formed part of a larger plan. The men who were captured on the road to Tuzla were not admitted to recognised war camps (such as that at Batkovici) but were confined in appalling conditions in sheds, vehicles, sports halls, etc., without food or water. This suggests that a decision to execute the men had indeed been taken at some central level. As in Potocari, these men had their identification papers confiscated and burnt, which was also seemingly irrefutable evidence of malicious intent on the part of their captors.[3] Emotional factors such as revenge, anger and frustration seem to have gained the upper hand in prompting the executions. This column of men was on its way from the captured enclave to the safety of Tuzla, and seemed to be escaping the clutches of the Bosnian Serbs. Revenge for the murder of Bosnian Serb civilians in and around the enclave in 1992 and 1993 is frequently cited as a motive for the executions, both in the Muslim Croat Federation and in the Republika Srpska. There was, after all, considerable animosity between the various ethnic groups. According to a UN official, that animosity was so great that nowhere else in Bosnia was there so little peaceful negotiation between the combatant parties, and nowhere else were there so many skirmishes around a Safe Area as in that around Srebrenica.[4] The situation obtaining at the time may also have contributed to the fateful decision. In the previous chapter, it was stated that the breakout from Srebrenica came as a complete surprise to the Bosnian Serbs who were totally unprepared. The conflict between the VRS and the 28th Division of the ABiH had taken a new turn by sundown on the 11th of July, by which time the VRS no longer knew exactly where the ABiH was positioned. On the orders of General Mladic, the VRS troops regrouped in the centre of the newly captured enclave. By noon the following day, they had left once more, en route to their next target, Zepa. Only reserve troops - a few MUP units and Military Police - remained in the enclave.[5] This may well have contributed to the feelings of uncertainty or even panic on the part of the Bosnian Serbs, particularly when the VRS discovered that the ABiH troops had withdrawn and there was now to be a movement across Bosnian Serb-held territory without any prior preparation. The sheer size of the party of men, both soldiers and civilians, which fell into Bosnian Serb hands soon thereafter would also have come as a great surprise. The rules and customs of engagement required that shelter, food, water and medical care be provided. This presented yet another unexpected problem: an extensive logistic operation would have to be launched at the very moment that the capture of the fleeing column was already causing so many problems. At the same time, it was necessary to ensure that the territory of the former enclave remained 'cleansed', while the operation against Zepa also demanded full attention. To establish the identity of each of these men, to question them as POWs and to determine any involvement in war crimes would take considerable time and would have exceeded the capacity of the VRS and Security agencies.[6] These factors suggest that there was no proof that the mass murder of the men may have formed part of the plans for the capture of Srebrenica before the operation itself. The Security and Intelligence units of the Drina Corps and the VRS Military Police had originally been ordered to assemble and guard prisoners of war upon the capture of Srebrenica.[7] There is therefore no indication that the VRS had harboured the intention of killing the ABiH soldiers and men in the column proceeding to Tuzla. During the second meeting with the Dutchbat Commander Karremans in the Hotel Fontana, held on 12 of July, Mladic stated that all men of combatant age would be 'screened' for their part in war crimes. Such screening and the interrogation of prisoners of war is, under the international rules of engagement, permitted.[8] On the same day the VRS' Bratunac Brigade had made a list of Muslims who were suspected of war crimes. From notes made by members of the Bratunac Brigade, the Tribunal was able to deduce that some had indeed been questioned about their involvement in such crimes around this time.[9] Dutchbat sources were also able to confirm that this was done in Bratunac.[10] The VRS had a list of approximately 100 people from the enclave who were wanted for questioning in connection with war crimes.[11] However, it soon became apparent that the Bosnian Serbs did not plan to interview the men in compliance with international law. At first, some were rounded up and interrogated, but the number involved soon became unmanageable for the Bosnian Serbs. This could well have influenced the decision to execute all male prisoners. Rather than spend any more time in interrogating people to establish guilt or innocence, they seized all men and boys, regardless of age. No exceptions were made, no distinction drawn between civilians and military personnel. All personal belongings and identity papers were confiscated and were subsequently destroyed to avoid any evidence being left.[12] This process, as it affected the men in the immediate vicinity of the compound at Potocari, is described in further detail in Chapter 4 of this section. The current chapter deals with the executions beyond the immediate area of the compound. Exactly when was the decision made to discontinue screening and to execute the prisoners instead? During the Hotel Fontana meeting with Karremans on the morning of July the 12th, Mladic stated that it would be better for the ABiH troops to lay down their arms rather than be killed. If he was sincere in this belief, we may deduce that any plan for a mass murder could have emerged no sooner than the end of that morning. It was then that the Bosnian Serbs learned that the men were planning to escape, and that the disarmament envisaged by Mladic was unlikely to take place. There is little sinister in the statements made by Karadzic in Pale that day. Karadzic boasted that there had been no civilian casualties during the fighting and that he had no objection to the continued presence of UNPROFOR. He dismissed all admonitions from the international community, but did not make any threats with regard to the men fleeing to Tuzla..[13] The Tribunal was of the opinion that the Bosnian Serbs eventually intended to kill as many men of combatant age as possible. Although a number of women and children were murdered, together with a relatively large number of older men, the main focus of the VRS was on able-bodied men between the ages of 16 and 60. The buses which transported the women and children were systematically searched for men. Some, although very few, exceptions were made. They included the casualties in Bratunac hospital who had previously been treated in the Dutchbat compound at Potocari. In these cases, it seems as though the Bosnian Serbs were doing their best not to attract international attention, particularly when Dutchbat personnel were present and observing the proceedings.[14] A key question is that of where the idea of the mass murders emerged, and where the detailed planning and execution of the plan took place. Given the scale of the atrocities, the decisions must have been made at the Drina Corps level, with the Zvornik Brigade in particular being implicated in much of the planning and subsequent action. All the marks of a well-planned military operation were present. Logistic preparations had to be made: firing squads and bulldozers had to be moved to the execution sites. Digging machines were already readily available throughout the area in question, but those used in the bauxite mines were not actually deployed in burying the executed Muslims.[15] Without detailed planning, it would not have been possible to slaughter so many people in such a systematic manner and in such a short time - the period between 13 and 17 of July. However, the fact that Krstic and many units of the Drina Corps were concentrating on Zepa at that time seems to contradict the hypothesis that this corps was the instigator of the murders. In this case, it would have been the various specialist units which did not form part of the Drina Corps - the Special Police and the 65th Regiment, for example - who were responsible for the initial executions. In the case of the 65th Regiment, revenge could have been a significant motive in that fourteen days earlier the regiment had been the target of an ABiH action launched from Srebrenica during the attack on Visnjica. According to the ABiH, the attack had claimed more than 40 casualties among the VRS, possibly as many as 71.[16] The Specijalna Brigada Policije (Special Police Brigade) had been formed in 1992 as a unit falling under the direct command of the Ministry of Home Affairs of the Republika Srpska (MUP). It was intended to provide support to the regular police in the form of anti-terrorist units and riot squads which would intervene in the event of any disruption of public order or a hostage situation. It would also provide personal protection to politicians, including Karadzic. This could be regarded as its 'peacetime' role. In the wartime situation, the Special Police Brigade became an elite fighting unit, taking part in the vast majority of VRS campaigns. The brigade was then under the operational control of the VRS itself. However, relationships with the VRS were poor, largely as a result of the tensions between the political leaders and the senior military officers.[17] Nevertheless, VRS units were actively involved in the executions. In particular, the Zvornik Brigade played a significant part. From 14 July onwards, this unit was involved in laying ambushes for the column on the road to Tuzla. One day earlier, it had started to seek out suitable locations in which to detain and eventually execute its prisoners.[18] Although General Krstic was the de facto Commander of the operations against Srebrenica and the subsequent actions, General Zivanovic was formally in command of the Drina Corps until the afternoon of 13 July. Zivanovic did not enjoy a high reputation as a successful officer, which may well have been the reason that Krstic was put in charge of the Srebrenica operation. On 20 July, Karadzic promoted Zivanovic from Major General to Lieutenant General, to mark his early retirement from the military.[19] Zivanovic actually came from Srebrenica, and Mladic is said to have asked him whose side he was on. According to one Bosnian Serb source, Zivanovic contacted the hospital at Milici prior to the attack on Srebrenica and instructed staff to keep a large number of beds free for the patients from Srebrenica.[20] It has been claimed that Zivanovic took early retirement because he did not wish to collaborate in any programme of mass murder. However, there is little evidence to support this notion: his retirement had been announced some time previously.[21] Furthermore, there is little doubt concerning Zivanovic's opinions of the Muslims. When the fall of Srebrenica was commemorated in Tuzla in 1996, Zivanovic was in Bratunac where he reminded the families of VRS troops of the purpose of the ethnic cleansing of Serbian territory: �Our policy is crystal clear, there is no life for Turks here�.[22] Interviewed by the NIOD, Zivanovic did not deny that a mass murder had taken place, nor that it was an action organized by the VRS. He cited revenge as a motive. Another explanation which Zivanovic offered for the mass murder was that it was a deliberate action on the part of only a few officers on the field who were supporters of General Manojlo Milovanovic, formerly the VRS Chief of General Staff. These officers, claimed Zivanovic, carried out the executions without the prior knowledge of Mladic, the aim being to discredit Mladic himself. Colonel Beara, the security officer of the General Staff, was named as the prime mover. Zivanovic sought to absolve Mladic from any blame for the killings, and placed responsibility squarely at the feet of Krstic.[23] However, this version of events does not stand up to close scrutiny since Mladic was seen in person at a number of the execution sites. Had he been against the killings, he was certainly in a position to prevent them. The statement made by Zivanovic, an interested party, must be viewed with suspicion. The question of where responsibilities actually lay is considered in greater detail later in this chapter. http://213.222.3.5/srebrenica/

The antiwar site selectively takes portions of comprehensive studies and reports that suits their agenda while leaving out the parts that detract from their agenda and neglect to inform readers of the overall conclusions and findings of these reports. Typical ...

Oh, I get it all now. Republika Srpska is actually run by jews who falsify their own data in order to make it seem like the serbs comitted war crimes. And occrider is working for them. Yea, of course, how didn't such an obvious thing appear to me earlier. Duh.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Oh, I get it all now. Republika Srpska is actually run by jews who falsify their own data in order to make it seem like the serbs comitted war crimes. And occrider is working for them. Yea, of course, how didn't such an obvious thing appear to me earlier. Duh.

They pay well. You need a new job? All the money is in digging mass graves and throwing fake bones in them. For overtime I make fake names for "missing people".

Who is this Occrider guy? What an idiot! He's only a Junior Tranceaddict, which means he knows absolutely nothing! He looks just like that lying propaganda dude from Iraq, so he himself must also be a liar, AND it comes as no surprise since he's just a part of the Jewish news propaganda machine.

Oh, and he's Jewish too!

I mean seriously, how much easier can it be to dismiss this guy? Next!




(hehe, I take a quick leave of absence and I miss all the hubub!).

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 AND it comes as no surprise since he's just a part of the Jewish news propaganda machine. Oh, and he's Jewish too! I mean seriously, how much easier can it be to dismiss this guy? Next!

Boy, I thought I that converting from catholocism to atheism would be the end product of my theological evolution. But ever since I decided to become a jew things have been on the up and up.

Here�s a picture they took of me while I was busy at work last week:



Can�t you see how much fun I�m having? Stop and say hi if you see me on the streets!

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf Those uniforms are similar to ones worn by members of my family: They look great!

Wow, your family was a bunch of fascists. How nice. And you're attacking muslims for colaborating with Hitler. Yea, sure. I wonder how your grandparents survived the war in those uniforms, especially since they seemed to be greatly ideologically indoctrinated. Must be that they fled away and hid somewhere as soon as they heard first allied gunshots. It's that famous Italian courage I guess.

I won't respond to this occrider troll since he has it in his head.
He offers no original thought and is here only to propagate his preconceived notions.To top it all, his copy and paste endeavour instead of linking is very tiring and annoying.

Some more islamic revelations at hand

Wife recalls hellish life with Islamic militant

quote:

The first thing to realize about the woman known widely here as Doris Gl�ck is that Doris Gl�ck is not her real name. She won't tell you her given name, or even her official new name - provided by the German police - beyond her first name and initial, Regina S. . . About a month ago, under the pseudonym of Doris Gl�ck, she published a book in Germany called "I Was Married to a Holy Warrior," in which she describes how she fell in love with an Egyptian man, married him and, as the years went by, watched, appalled, as he became more militant and, finally, fully engaged in jihad, or holy war. . The worst moment came in the mid-1990s in Bosnia, where she and her now ex-husband had gone to help the Muslim side in the civil war in the former Yugoslavia. (In the book, she calls him by a pseudonym, Omar, to forestall any effort he might have made to block publication had she used his real name, Reda Seyam.) . One day, she was taken to a place near a mountain where, she says, she became an involuntary witness to the revenge execution of three Serb men, one of them by beheading.

more in link


The following pictures present some of the documented activities of the mujahedeen in Bosnia and Herzegovina

quote:

Mujahedins from unit "El Mujahedin" cut heads of Serbian war prisoners. The commander of the mujahedeen was an international terrorist named Abdelkader Mokhtari (also known as Abu Ma'ali), who is a top lieutenant of Osama bin Laden. The Honorary Commander of the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade was Alija Izetbegovic. One of the worst crimes committed by the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade, pursuant to orders issued by their Supreme Commander Alija Izetbegovic, was the slaughter of Bosnian Serb POWs in Vozuca.

7th Brigade, loyal Islamic force

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/timbeat4.htm

Director of the U.S. Congress' Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional warfare: "Some Call It Peace"
http://members.tripod.com/Balkania/...e/bp_part1.html

7th Muslim "Liberation" Brigade
http://www.wargamer.com/sp/military...ija/foreign.asp

Washington Post - Iranians Form Terror Force in Bosnia
http://impact.users.netlink.co.uk/namir/sreport.htm

Bosnia losing the pluralistic character
http://www.bosnet.org/archive/bosne...1/msg00252.html


No future for Muslims in Europe unless they have a state of their own
http://www.amber.ucsf.edu/homes/ros...bosnia_/mus.txt

US Senate Document; Clinton-Approved Iranian Arms Transfers Help Turn Bosnia into Militant Islamic Base
http://www.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1997/iran.htm

A BOSNIAN VILLAGE'S TERRORIST
http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Aktuelno/BIVS...11032000_e.html


The Second Coming of Alija Izetbegovic
http://www.balkanpeace.org/our/our05.shtml

Selling the Bosnian Myth to America: Part I-Buyer Beware
http://reagan.com/HotTopics.main/Ho....11.2000.3.html


Army suspects munitions manufactured for Bosnian army
http://archive.nandotimes.com/newsr...0204yugfff.html

Similarity - The 13th Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS Handschar
http://www.wssob.com/013divhnd.html

Jihad - the "Holly War"
http://blaskic.croat.net/jihad.htm
http://www.balkanpeace.org/temp/tmp13.html



This photograph was seized from Saudi Arabian fighters captured in Crni Vrh near Teslic, Bosnia. A Muslim solder displays the severed head of Blagoje Blagojevic, a Serb from the village of Jasenovo near Teslic.


The severed heads of three Serbs (identified as Blagoje Blagojevic, Nenad Petkovic, and Brana Djuric) beheaded by Muslim fighters. This picture was seized from Saudi Arabian solders captured near Teslic in Bosnia.


Video Gallery of documented Islamic faschism in bosnia alone.
VERY DISTURBING LINK
some photos for good measure

Bin Laden and the Balkans


Terrorist Aslan Klecka, mujahedeen from Klecka. Mastermind of Klecka massacre.
Albanian crematorium for the Serbs

The picture that fooled the world

quote:

Photo: ITN archive This image of an emaciated Muslim caged behind Serb barbed wire, filmed by a British news team, became a worldwide symbol of the war in Bosnia. But the picture is not quite what it seems. German journalist Thomas Deichmann reveals the full story The picture reproduced on these pages is of Fikret Alic, a Bosnian Muslim, emaciated and stripped to the waist, apparently imprisoned behind a barbed wire fence in a Bosnian Serb camp at Trnopolje. It was taken from a videotape shot on 5 August 1992 by an award-winning British television team, led by Penny Marshall (ITN) with her cameraman Jeremy Irvin, accompanied by Ian Williams (Channel 4) and the reporter Ed Vulliamy from the Guardian newspaper. For many, this picture has become a symbol of the horrors of the Bosnian war - 'Belsen '92' as one British newspaper headline captioned the photograph (Daily Mirror, 7 August 1992). But that image is misleading.

Libel for False Television Pictures

Assorted Albanian's Crimes Against Serbs
See at your own risk (beheadings)

http://www.pogledi.co.yu/slika_meseca/6V.jpg
http://www.pogledi.co.yu/slika_meseca/4V.jpg
http://www.pogledi.co.yu/slika_meseca/5V.jpg

quote:

"Will the MINUK (UN International Mission in Kosovo) be able to find the butcher from this picture Sadik Cufjala and his son (on the right of the first picture, today colonel in the Protection Corps of Kosovo, which is only the UCK terorrists converted by the United Nations into a civilian corps). If he was trialed , this criminel coulde'nt deny the evidence of his monstruous acts and could be forced into revealing what destiny caught the Serbian soldiers he kidnapped. The proofs of his savagery and bestiality are precisely on these pictures published by our newspaper. Will the International Community be willing to put Cufjala and his barbarians on the accused bench? We can only speculate! Until today, the general prosecutor in the International Tribunal of Den Haag for crimes perpetrated in former Yugoslavia always told that no evidence exists that the UCK commited crimes on Serbs in Kosovo. Now they have evidences: black on white! " Albanian's Crimes Against Serbs The serbian baby Sava was burnt alive by albanian terrorists in Prizren/Kosovo in September 1999. Did CNN report it?

if you are still unshaken go here for more details
http://www.pogledi.co.yu/english/index.php

Assorted albanian nationalist terrorist crimes in southern Serbia (kosovo) since 1990


July 23 1998 - Released Serb women talk about terrorist killings

April 9, 1998 - Bodies of six ethnic Albanians loyal to Serbia
killed by terrorists
In controlled western media these killing were implied as simply albanian with implication being that they were killed by serbs. Trick repeated many times on suspecting reader.

Postman Nenad Jaredic killed by ethnic-Albanian terrorists

Of course nato occupied kosovo region is media no man's land where any real information is almost impossible to get due to heavy and unapolegetic censorship. But alas some stories and pics do come out and they are horrific in their callousness and brutality
Gorazdevac
http://www.kosovo.com/news/archive/...ugust_09/1.html
http://neobyzantine.agrino.org/arch...03/13082003.htm
http://www.pogledi.co.yu/galerija/gorazdevac/
http://www.pogledi.co.yu/galerija/kim/

During the last american election campaign, 2 american traitors and distinguished but so far unnamed jewish war criminals Richard Holbrooke and Wesley Clarke found it accepteable to get wined and dined by a certain albanian arms dealer and admitted killer and received donations of over half a million dollars for their campaigns from these same outlaws. Revealing dutch documentary can be viewed here . As it turned out, it wasn't worth it anyway.

In recent days , showing full moral decay, nato occupation troops have installed a certain "prime minister" in kosovo. He is commanded as a product of democracy by a diabolical nato commander, with only problem being that he is also accused of monstrous multiple crimes including murder , kidnappings, rape and torture.

So far none of these crimes are investigated by the so called hague tribunal and indeed they aren't mentioned in jewish controlled and influnced media.

maybe we should just pile everything we know about the Bosnian/Yugoslav wars in here and see for ourselves who were indeed the most atrocious. we can see who were the aggressors, and we can discuss what is propoganda and what is real news.

We can do all that, but maybe its not necessary, the question is: what are you trying to prove?

quote:

Originally posted by Kzwei maybe we should just pile everything we know about the Bosnian/Yugoslav wars in here and see for ourselves who were indeed the most atrocious. we can see who were the aggressors, and we can discuss what is propoganda and what is real news. We can do all that, but maybe its not necessary, the question is: what are you trying to prove?

I dont think people are trying to prove anything... it's just a defensive reaction to being attacked by someone elses differing viewpoints.

I dont know how this topic went from a burnt Serbian church to the Bosnian war, but the fact is, is that it's war... Serbs, Albanians, Bosnians, and Croatians are all guilty of atrocities..

Of course, us Serbs are the easiest to scapegoat (thankyou Slobo), and we are not innocent of murdering innocent people and forcing people out of their homes.. but hey, this shit happens in any war, and any party involved will ALWAYS be guilty of doing exactly that..

fuck i hate war..

cant we all just have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up?

quote:

Originally posted by Dupz I dont think people are trying to prove anything... it's just a defensive reaction to being attacked by someone elses differing viewpoints. I dont know how this topic went from a burnt Serbian church to the Bosnian war, but the fact is, is that it's war... Serbs, Albanians, Bosnians, and Croatians are all guilty of atrocities.. Of course, us Serbs are the easiest to scapegoat (thankyou Slobo), and we are not innocent of murdering innocent people and forcing people out of their homes.. but hey, this shit happens in any war, and any party involved will ALWAYS be guilty of doing exactly that.. fuck i hate war.. cant we all just have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up?

Yeah, people have a tendency to get defensive and to minimize their own nation's atrocities by pointing out that other nations did the same thing instead of condemning them and taking an effort that such things don't happen again. It really pisses me off to see those sadistic war criminals being hailed as heroes around here by a bunch of stupid right wing maniacs. Whenever somebody here is asked to go to Hague, even if only as a witness, you always get those PTSP freaks protesting on the streets. And it's the same in every ex-Yu country.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf Those uniforms are similar to ones worn by members of my family: They look great!

So you're proud to be fascist now? lol
I guess it adds up seeing that your family fled to Canada.

edit: what was that again about Muslims in league with Hitler? Hypocritical oaf.

quote:

Originally posted by Kzwei maybe we should just pile everything we know about the Bosnian/Yugoslav wars in here and see for ourselves who were indeed the most atrocious. we can see who were the aggressors, and we can discuss what is propoganda and what is real news. We can do all that, but maybe its not necessary, the question is: what are you trying to prove?

The point is to know a deeper side, to find out more precisely why some things are reported, why some aren't, why did it happen and what happens after.

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Originally posted by razmataz So you're proud to be fascist now? lol I guess it adds up seeing that your family fled to Canada.

Well, they were italian soldiers. Whatdya expect?

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/ustashi.html

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Originally posted by erdega I won't respond to this occrider troll since he has it in his head. He offers no original thought and is here only to propagate his preconceived notions.To top it all, his copy and paste endeavour instead of linking is very tiring and annoying.

Yeah, that'll show 'em! Call him out! Don't let his posts, which directly answer and refute absolutely every single point you have brought up so far, bother you in any way! You just keep movin' on like they never happened! Pay no attention to someone who engages each and every point you have tried to create! Just call this guy a troll and move on!

And he is a troll too! I mean, just because he's arguably one of the most nonpartisan folks here who does nothing but roll out well-spoken and well-thought out posts time and again for years now, that doesn't mean WE like the guy! Yeah, he's a troll damnit! He's nothing but a post-n-runner, geared up to do nothing but stir up hatred every time he answers your questions and refutes your ridiculous posts with well-supported evidence!

Don't let him get away with it! Keep up that fine investigative journalism! We're all behind ya, whoever you are! We love ya dearly!

Yo Joe!

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/ustashi.html

quote:

CROATIAN NAZIS THE WORST MONSTERS THE WORLD HAD KNOWN They outdid German Nazi and Italian fascists

Well, I guess you should like us then, right? Unfortunately for you, Croatian nazis were defeated by Croatian communists.

quote:

Serbs have more than valid historical reason NOT TO TRUST Croat or Muslim "democracy". What they were suffering during World War II is so gruesome and far beyond description.

That is a pretty common serbian nationalistic claim that modern Croatia is a direct descendant of NDH. While it is true that some of the top Croatian politicians did infact sympathize with the former state, the modern Croatia is constructed upon the 1974 Yugoslavian constitution which allowed for every federal republic the right to break away, as well as its borders are ones defined by the 1943 AVNOJ council in Jajce. What is interesting at this point is that the very Chetnik movement that is so opposed to modern day Croatia has infact allied itself with NDH to cooperate against Tito's partizans because they, like Ustashe, sympathized Hitler.

quote:

The Western press carefully avoids to talk about recent history of the region. It denies the Serbs of Croatia and Bosnia the REAL MOTIVE for their current fear and struggle. This is because it clashes with the claim that, somehow, Serbs of these geographical regions were pushed by Belgrade autocrat Miloshevich to "rebel" against "newly born democracies".

What real motive? If it weren't for Milosevic, Yugoslavia would still be in one piece now. If anyone started building up on nationalism first, it was Serbia. Croatia soon answered with its own nationalism, but it was Milosevic who demanded to end the federation system and to fully unify the country and to strip the states of any rights. The original response to that request by Croatian side was to convert Yugoslavia into a confederacy. Only after Milosevic insisted on carrying out his agenda did Tudjman win the elections in Croatia as a counter-nationalist.

quote:

REFERENCE #1: For decades Encyclopedia Britannica had the following sentence when talking about WWII in Yugoslavia (Quote): "...IN BOSNIA...THE CROATIAN FASCISTS BEGAN A MASSACRE OF SERBS WHICH, IN THE WHOLE ANNALS OF WORLD WAR II, WAS SURPASSED FOR SAVAGERY ONLY BY THE MASS EXTERMINATION OF POLISH JEWS"!!!!!!!! (End quote) One can find the sentence in the versions of Britannica from 1971 to 1986 (entry: Yugoslavia, World War II). Probably at later editions too... We believe you have heard about suffering of Polish Jews. There you have the comparison!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #2: The New Encyclopedia Britannica, Volume 27, Macropedia (Knowledge in Depth), edition 1986, page 467, entry: Fascism in the Balkans (1930's) Quote: RADICAL FASCIST movements developed in some Balkan countries - MOST PROMINENTLY IN CROATIA,... they were OBSESSED by an extremist spirit of terroristic violence in a strange union with RELIGIOUS FANATICISM. As result of German victory the Croatian USTASHE, a party under the leadership of Ante Pavelic (1889-1959), turned Croatia into a state on the model of the MOST EXTREMIST NATIONAL Socialist Party formation, the SS, or Schutzstaffel,... The Ustashe persecuted and killed hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Serbs and Jews. Catholic monks and other priests are alledged to have taken an active part in this STRUGGLE FOR THE "PURITY" OF THE CROATIAN LAND... (End quote). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #3: Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15th Edition (1991 - i.e. still before Western anti-Serb propaganda campaign started) Macropaedia, Vol. 29, page 1111 Quote: In Croatia [in 1941] the indeginous fascist regime set about a policy of "racial purification" that went beyond even Nazi practices. Minority groups such as Jews and Gypsies were to be eliminated as were the Serbs: it was declared that one-third of the Serbian population would be deported, one-third converted to Roman Catholicism, and one third liquidated. ... Ustasha bands terrorized the countryside. The partial [sic!] collaboration of the Catholic clergy in these practices continues to be a component of Serb-Croat suspicion. (End quote). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #4: 1945 Britannica book of the year, page 216, entry: Croatia Quote: Few regimes under German control had committed SO MANY CRUEL ACTS AS CROATIA DID. Serbs and Jews were persecuted and many of them murdered. (End quote). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #5: Worldmark Encyclopedia of the Nations, Europe, edition 1995, page 91, entry: Croatia Quote: Slavko Kvaternik (the second in command to the Croatian WWII fuehrer, Dr Ante Pavelic) explained (on the day of formation of the WWII "Independent State of Croatia", on April 10, 1941) HOW PURE CROATIA SHOULD BE BUILT - by forcing one third of the Serbs to leave Croatia, one third to convert to Catholicism, and one third to be EXTERMINATED. Soon Ustasha bands initiated a BLOODY ORGY of mass murder of Serbs unfortunate enough not to have converted or left Croatia on time. THE ENORMITY OF SUCH CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR SHOCKED EVEN THE CONSCIENCE OF GERMAN COMMANDERS, but Pavelic had Hitler's personal support for such actions which resulted in the loss of the lives of hundreds of thousands of Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina. In addition, the Ustasa regime organized extermination camps, the most notorious one at JASENOVAC where Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, and other opponents were massacred in large numbers. (End quote) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #6: Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, Vol 1, page 323, entry: Croatia Quote: CROATIA (Nazavisna Drzava Hrvatska or Independent State of Croatia, NDH) ... established during WWII, that was in existence from April 1941 to May 1945. Its area... CONSISTED OF WHAT ARE TODAY THE FEDERATIVE REPUBLIC OF CROATIA AND THE FEDERATIVE REPUBLIC OF BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA... Its capital was Zagreb. It had population of 6.3 million, of whom 3.3 million were Catholic Croats, 1.9 million Serbs, 700,000 Muslim..., 40,000 Jews, 30,000 Gypsies... ... Shortly after taking control, the Ustasha, WITH THE SUPPORT OF MANY CROATS, EMBARKED UPON WHAT IT CALLED "THE PURGE OF CROATIA FROM FOREIGN ELEMENTS," which had as its main purpose the ELIMINATION OF THE SERB MINORITY. In a BRUTAL TERROR CAMPAIGN, more than half a million Serbs were killed, a quater of million expelled, and 200,000 forced to convert to Catholicism. THE USTASHA REGIME IN CROATIA, AND PARTICULARLY THIS DRIVE IN THE SUMMER OF 1941 TO EXTERMINATE AND DISPOSSESS THE SERBS, WAS ONE OF THE MOST HORRENDOUS EPISODES OF WORLD WAR II !!!!!!!!!! THE MURDER METHODS APPLIED BY THE USTASHA WERE EXTRAORDINARILY PRIMITIVE AND SADISTIC: thousands were hurled from mountain tops, other were beaten to death or their throats cut, entire villages were burned down, WOMEN RAPED, people sent to death marches in the middle of winter, and still others starved to death. (End quote) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #7: The New Encyclopedia Britannica, edition 1986, Macropedia (Knowledge in Depth), Volume 27, page 467, entry: 'Fascism in the Balkans (1930's).' Quote: Catholic monks and other priests are alleged to have taken an active part in this struggle for the 'purity' of the Croatian land. (End quote) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #8: Professor Helen Fein, "Accounting for Genocide - Victims and Survivors of the Holocaust," The Free Press, New York, Edition 1979, page 103 Quote: Nonpartisan sources agree that mass genocide was authorized by the state of Croatia. They concur that the state instigated, planned, and executed massacres against the Serbian Orthodox minority... and that the Catholic clergy approved, led, or failed to denounce these massacres. The Croats' collective hatred of the Orthodox Serbs was explicit in folk sayings such as ["Srbe o vrbe" -] "Serbs to the willows [hang the Serbs]." ... By June 1941, signs on public establishments read, 'NO SERBS, JEWS, NOMADS ['Gypsies'] AND DOGS ALLOWED. (End quote) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #9: "Partisans and Guerillas, W.W.II," Ronald H. Bailey, Time-Life Books, Edition 1978, page 87. Quote: The real ruler [of W.W.II Croatia] was Ante Pavelich, a zealous Croatian nationalist and fanatical hater of Serbs... Pavelic lead a terrorist group called the Ustashi in a brutal campaign against Jews and Serbs in Croatia. "A good Ustashi," he told his men, "is he who can use his knife to cut a child from the womb of its mother." According to an Italian correspondent, Pavelich once put a wicker basket on his desk - filled with 40 pounds of eyes gourged from victims of the Ustashi. (End quote) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #10: Professor Edmond Paris, "Genocide in Satellite Croatia, 1941- 1945," Chicago, 1961, The American Institute for Balkan Affairs, from the introduction of the book. Quote: The greatest genocide during World War II, in proportion to a nation's population, took place, not in Nazi Germany but in the Nazi-created puppet state of Croatia. There, in the years 1941-1945, some 750,000 Serbs, 60,000 Jews and 26,000 Gypsies - men, women and children - perished in a gigantic holocaust. These are the figures used by most foreign authors, especially Germans, who were in the best position to know... The magnitude and the bestial nature of these atrocities makes it difficult to believe that such a thing could have happened in an allegedly civilized part of the world. (End quote) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #11: Herman Naubacher, Hitler's personal assistant for the South-East Europe and the Balkan affairs, in his book "Sonderauftrag Sudosten 1940-1945. Bericht eines fliegenden Diplomate", Gottingen, 1956, on page 31, writes: Quote: The Orthodox recipe of Ante Pavelic, Ustashi leader and Croatian Fuehrer, reminds one of the religious wars in the bloodest aspects: one-third must become Catholic, one-third must leave the country and one-third must die. The last item was executed. When the leading men of the Ustashi movement are stating that they have slaughtered ONE MILLION Serbs (including infants, children, women and aged) this in my opinion is a self-praising exaggeration. According to the reports that have reached me, my estimate is that the number of those defenseless slaughtered is some THREE QUARTER OF A MILLION. [=750,000] (End quote) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #12: [Italian] Alfio Russo, in his book "Revoluzione in Jugoslavia", Roma 1944 Quote: Even the most extraordinary massacres in the darkest era of history would not soil its name - Croatia... Kill, kill, scream the Ustashi against Serbs. And they cut their heads off and throw bodies away into the Sava river which flows slowly and gravely in the direction of Belgrade... Go back to your motherland, go back to your motherland. Neither Fascists nor Nazi have the remotests resemblance to the Ustashi, they are a fauna absolutely extraordinary and strange... (End quote) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #13: Baron Avro Manhattan, "The Vatican's Holocaust," Ozark Books, 1986, page 54 Quote: The Nazis had records of massacres of their own second to none. Yet the horrors committed by Pavelic's Ustashi troops proved to be of such bestiality as to shock even them: a most crushing evidence that the Ustashi massacres had surpassed ANYTHING experienced even by the Germany of Hitler. The magnitude of the butchery can best be gauged by the fact that within the first three months, from April to June, 1941, 120,000 people perished thus. Proportionately to its duration and the smallness of the territory, it had been the greatest massacre to take place ANYWHERE in the West prior to, during, or after that greatest of cataclysms, the Second World War. (End quote) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #14: Dr. Nora Levin, "The Holocaust - The destruction of European Jewry 1933 - 1945," Schocken Books, New York, Edition 1973, page 515 Quote: The Ustashi murdered and tortured Jews and Serbs in indescribably bestial fashion. One of the most notorious camps in Hitler's Europe, Jasenovac, was in Croatia. Here the Ustashi used primitive implements in putting their victims to death - knives, axes, hammers and other iron tools. A characteristic method was binding pairs of prisoners, back to back, and then throwing them into the Sava River. One source estimates that 770,000 Serbs, 40,000 Gypsies and 20,000 Jews were done to death in the Jasenovac camp. (End quote) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #15: Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, Vol 2, page 739 Quote: JASENOVAC, the largest concentration camp in Croatia. Jasenovac was in fact a complex of several subcamps, in close proximity to each other, on the bank of Sava river... established in August 1941 and was dismantled only on April 1945... SOME SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE WERE MURDERED AT JASENOVAC, MOSTLY SERBS JEWS, GYPSIES, AND OPPONENTS OF THE USTASHA REGIME... The living conditions in the camp were extremely severe... a particularly CRUEL regime, and UNBELIEVABLY CRUEL BEHAVIOR BY THE USTASHE GARDS. (End quote) A photograph that accompanies the text shows a smiling Ustasha in uniform with large "U" on its cap. The caption says (quote): "The former priest Miroslav Filipovic-Majstorovic, a member of the Jasenovac camp staff". In the text, later, it adds that this was one of the cruelest murderers, "who killed scores of prisoners with his own hands"... He was known as "Father Devil". At different places in encyclopediae it is said how Croats participated EN MASSE in the slaughter. Actually, per capita, Croatia produced more soldiers then Nazi Germany. They tried, wery hard, to prove that CROATS ARE THE BEST NAZI OF THEM ALL! They were the best carriers of Hitler's New World Order. CROATIA WAS THE FIRST NAZI STATE IN WORLD WAR II EUROPE TO DECLARE WAR ON THE U.S. While Nazi Germany did it in 1943, Croats did it as early as December 15, 1941. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCE #16: And who joined Nazi Croats in slaughtering the Serbs? You've guessed it: The Muslims! Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, Edition 1990, Volume 2, Pages 706 and 707, entry Husseini, Hajj Amin Al ; The main Hitler's supporter among Palestinian Arabs... Quote: It so happened that Husseini made his contribution to the Axis war effort in his capacity as a Muslim, rather than as an Arab leader, by recruiting and organizing in RECORD TIME, during the spring of 1943, BOSNIAN MUSLIM BATTALIONS in Croatia comprising some TWENTY THOUSAND MEN, These MUSLIM VOLUNTEER units, called Hanjar (Sword), were put in WAFFEN-SS fought Yugoslav partisans in Bosnia, and carried out police and security duties in Hungary. THEY PARTICIPATED IN THE MASSACRE OF CIVILIANS IN BOSNIA and VOLUNTEERED TO JOIN IN THE HUNT FOR JEWS IN CROATIA... The Germans made a point of publicizing the fact that Husseini had flown from Berlin to Sarajevo for the sole purpose of giving his blessing to the Muslim army and inspecting its arms and training exercises. (End quote). A photograph, on page 704, shows al-Husseini inspecting Muslim troops in Bosnia. TWENTY THOUSAND (20,000) Muslim volunteers for the Nazi SS - out of total population of 700,000 - that's a HUGE response. Nazi Ustashe succeded in murdering more than third out of more than two million Serbs that got under thir hands in Croatia and Bosnia in WWII. Some 200,000 Serbs were forcefully converted to Catholicism.

Wait, so what's your point? You like fascists, right? You like Serbs, right? You don't like muslims, although they were fascists? You don't like fascist Croatians although they ultimately allied themselves with fascist Serbs? Interesting.

quote:

Yes, you say, but it was 50 years ago... What happened next is that Communist dictator Tito, supported (and sometimes supplied with arms and ammunition) by Britain and USA got to control Yugoslavia. He served as a useful puppet in a buffer zone against the Soviet block.

How was he a puppet of anybody? At first he was partially under the control of the Soviet Union, but after that he broke away and formed the block of countries that were neutral in regards to the cold war main opponents.

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Tito, himself a CROAT, butchered Yugoslavia into six (so called) "Federative Republics".

Hmm, let's see here. And how many regions did the Kraljevina SHS have? About the same number? Ok, then, let's move on...

quote:

He was sure to chop the largest nation, the Serbs, into four republics. And Republic of Serbia, itself, was the only one to be further divided (into three pieces: Vojvodina, Kosovo and "Serbia proper"). Some 42% of Serbs got to live outside "Serbia proper". And that is the CRUX of today's problem. (For the above numbers look at: Paul Shoup "Communism and the Yugoslav National Question". Columbia, 1968).

Now, let's see the map of ethnic buildup in Yugoslavia:


While it is true that a large portion of Serbian territory did infact live outside of mainland Serbia, the same can be said for Croatia. Additionally, if you look at Kosovo, you will see that it is a Serbian region although the Serbs there are a total minority. And finally, he didn't chop Serbia into 4 parts because although ethnic Serbs lived in those areas, those areas never were an integral part of Serbia.

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Next, the Croatian Communist dictator ordered Croatian and Muslim genocide of the Serbs to be forgotten - and new "Brotherhood and Unity" (under Communist dictatorship) to begin. The mountain pits where whole Serbian villages were hurled into - were cemented!!! And surviving Serbs were ordered NOT to come to the mass graves and morn their dead.

What what what? So who built those huge monuments in places of Croatian concentration camps?



The only people whose deaths were not mourned were those of ustashas and chetniks who were killed when they tried to flee to Austria.

quote:

Some Ustashe Croats and Muslims got (usually small) positions in the new government.

Hahaha, this is totally rediculous. The whole country ideology was based upon the hatred of nazis and those who colaborated with them, including ustashas and chetniks.

quote:

Their Nazi elite (including the above mentioned Croatian fuhrer Pavelic) ESCAPED through Vatican organized "rat channels". Croatian priesthood was instrumental in helping some 50,000 worst European Nazi escape justice.

Just btw, you hate muslims but like catholics, right? Ok, thought so.

quote:

The whole operation was done with full knowledge of British and American intelligence. The fascist murderers were proclaimed new "freedom fighters" against the Red Flood. Many got positions in State Department (as special advisers) and other government institutions. (The files describing the operation were declasified resently. To learn more read recently published book "Unholy Trinity", by Mark Aarons and John Loftus. (Mr Loftus worked in the U.S. Justice Department in its Nazi-hunting unit).

Yeah, well, they mostly escaped to neutral countries in South America. Like many Germans did as well. I doubt it that Americans and Brits actively helped them out though. Especially since they supported Tito.

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And the Serbs stuck to their Christian tradition and did not seek revenge.

Yup. Until Milosevic came.

quote:

They thought that the bloody episode will never repeat. But the Ustasha elite in South and North America, Australia, immediately started to organize dreaming of good old days...

That is true.

quote:

The Serbs in many cases intermarried and started a new life. This is what the Western press calls today "the ideal multiethnicity and tolerance of ex-Communist Yugoslavia. So WHO WAS THE TOLERANT ONE? The murderer or his next door surviving victim - the Serb?

Well, if anyone was tolerant, it was the newly installed multiethnic government, because let's not forget that chetniks also had a lot of blood on their hands.

quote:

Then came collapse of the Yugoslav economy (induced by the U.S.) and the rats came back home. Under THE SAME USTASHI FLAG (and giving the same threat speaches to the remaining Serbs).

The collapse of the economy started in the early 80's mostly as a result of oil crisis. And it was not the same flag. Let's take a look at Croatian flags through history:

1848-1867

1867-1918

1918-1941

1941-1945

1945-1990

1990-


The checkerboard is a standard croatian coat of arms that was included on some flags. It was always a standard coat of arms of Croatia, although often in slightly different forms.

quote:

Dr. Franjo Tudjman, holocaust revisionist and apologizer for Hitler - won the first elections for new "democratic" Independent State of Croatia. With good suport of money he got from the Ustasha emigration. The hell broke loose!

Well, yes, partially correct, but although he tolerated pro-ustashe elements in the society, he never supported Hitler.

quote:

Today, Muslims and Croats, are once again united. They were united under Hitler. They were (forcefully!) united by Bill Clinton. Hating each other with racist passion, their only common goal is (once again) to slaughter and expel the remaining Serbs. This is done under supervision of "neutral" UN, EC, US, NATO,... Under watchful "unbiased" CNN, ABC, BBC,...

Umm, yes...that's why we're rebuilding houses for serbian refugees who want to come back now.

quote:

American bombers can bomd Christian children as much as they want. American media can claim whatever they damn please. The Western "intellectuals" are absorbing all the Nazi propaganda without question. What ever happened to: COGITO ERGO SUM! (I *THINK* therefore I exist). Is the term "Western intellectual" an oxymoron? Can you please check the above quotes? Can you see the obvious?

Eh, whatever. The whole world is against Serbia. And all they're trying to do is to claim every bit of land where there are Serbs living or where they once used to live. Gdje je srbin, tu je Srbija! And let's not forget how Seselj demanded that the Croatian border be reduced to the Virovitica-Karlovac-Karlobag triangle. And he had the support of about 30% of the population.

quote:

But the last ETHNIC CLEANSING of the remaining Serbs in Croatia and one half of Bosnia-Herzegovina - was done by "democrat" BILL CLINTON with help of NATO force. At the same time the Western media had audacity to blame the Serbs for "Ethnic clensing" and even "self-cleansing"!!!!!!

Because the Serbs did commit ethnic cleansing just as well as other nations did.

quote:

It proves, once again, that a copy can never be as good as the original. ORIGINAL NAZIS WERE BETTER. At least they were honest to say, the FIRST DAY, what they planed to do with Jews, Serbs, other Slavs. Today's Nazi are covering their act calling it "democracy", "peace"...

Then why won't you admit for Serbian attempts at ethnic cleansing.

quote:

The replica of the USTASHA FLAG FREELY FLIES in front of the United Nations.

Well, if that's Ustasha flag, then the modern Serbian flag is equal to Chetnik flag.



[img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:beCa0oSi-iYJ:http://abrasevic-valjevo.org.yu/zastava_srbija.gif[/img]

quote:

It flies freely IN JASENOVAC, ABOVE THE MASS GRAVE OF SOME 600,000 VICTIMS. Do you see a better sarcasm!? On May 1st, 1995 Croatian army, carring Ustasha symbols and flags, broke through the UN lines. They did it at will. They did it with the knowledge and support of Washington. They flooded so called "United Nations Protected Zone - West". The Serbs were ordered by the "international community", well in advance, to disarm and put their heavy weapons under UN supervision. Just days before, under Croatian "pressure", the zones were renamed to UNCRO = United Nations Confidence Restauration Operation. What a sarcasm!!! What a crime!

Well, maybe because Jasenovac is a part of Croatian territory defined in 1943 and agreed upon by Serbs at the time?

quote:

Ustasha tanks went over civillians. Women and children were machinegunned. A few thousand were murdered in cold blood. The New York Times (and alike Big Brother Trumpets) praised "liberation" of part of Croatia... There was also a short note that Croatian police did not let newspapermen in for couple a days and that the whole area stunk of chlorine. The roads were hozed but still pools of blood were visible...

Of course there is blood when there was fighting going on. As for any civilian casualties, that's why Hague tribunal is for. And we're cooperating with it much better than you are.

quote:

At least, that time, for some reason, the Serbs were not blamed for that particular genocide. The front page of the New York Times carried a story of how (aledgedly) Serbs fired two rockets with cluster bombs to Zagreb. The rockets killed two people, the story says. The front page shows a body. A lady lies on the main street, face down, in chrystal clear white coat. A bus is in the background. All window panes intact. The Serbs have amazing rockets. Cluster rockets at that.

Look, moron, I was fucking living here when those rockets were fired and I remember them damn correctly. And the serbs admitted they fired those rockets.

quote:

And here is the sarcastic result of NATO-Croatian-Nazi genocide of the last year: The leader of the Croatian Serbs is declaired a war criminal.... And no Croat.

NATO-Croatian-Nazi? Interesting. I guess that if the article was newer you'd also add up muslims into that mix. Nevertheless, there are like 20 or so Croats sitting in Hague as convicts, so that is again a totally false claim.

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Today, Nazi Croatia is the MOST ETHNICALLY PURE COUNTRY OF EUROPE. Hitler and Pavelic must be laughing in their graves.

Eh? Although minorities reach about 15% of the population???

quote:

There will be no justice in the Hague Kangaroo Court. But would there be enough room for all the souls of the "democratic West" that were the architects of the Yugoslav tragedy?

Right. No serbs comitted war crimes. And the whole world has accused those 50 or so serbian guys just out of fun.

quote:

Originally posted by erdega I won't respond to this occrider troll since he has it in his head. He offers no original thought and is here only to propagate his preconceived notions.To top it all, his copy and paste endeavour instead of linking is very tiring and annoying. Some more islamic revelations at hand

Suit yourself ... while you do an excellent job of ad hominem attacks and pointing out atrocities committed by bosnian Muslims, I never said that the Muslims were innocent of such crimes. My argument was to simply point out that atrocities were perpetrated by Serb forces in Srebenica.

Drug_Tito might have pointed this out in his last post, but I couldn't make it through all of it. Didn't the Nazis kill off half (6 million of 12 million) the world's jews? In the article provided it said that the Croatian Nazis only killed 1/3 (750,000, although I also saw 770,000) of the Serb population. Now granted thats still horrible, but saying it is worse than what the Nazis did to the jews is ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by Jive_Turkey Drug_Tito might have pointed this out in his last post, but I couldn't make it through all of it. Didn't the Nazis kill off half (6 million of 12 million) the world's jews? In the article provided it said that the Croatian Nazis only killed 1/3 (750,000, although I also saw 770,000) of the Serb population. Now granted thats still horrible, but saying it is worse than what the Nazis did to the jews is ridiculous.

No shit. It's the same thing. Like saying that nazis from Brandenburg are worse than those from Thurningen because they killed a bit larger portion of their population.

Eh, just now I've seen that the flags aren't really portrayed correctly. Meh, if anyone is interested, you can go to http://miyeonjan.tripod.com/croatia-e.html and check it out.

I would also like to add something about the ethnic makeup of Yugoslavia picture I posted earlier. Bosnia does indeed look like a large portion of it contains a Serbian majority. However, that majority is rather miniscule and it rarely reaches over 70%. Same goes for other Bosnian regions. Just so that somebody wouldn't get confused and think that Serbian/Croatian/Muslim parts are ethnically pure, because they themselves are very mixed. Same goes for parts of Croatia and Serbia. And Montenegro is marked in almost the same color as Serbia, so it's kinda hard to distinguish between the two.

I never wanted this thread to turn into history lessons at all since it just holds us back in ancient time. That's their plan to have us bickering over history. Just read revisionist masterpieces of jews Tim Judah and Philip J. Cohen and you'll see how they distort history to create enmity and propaganda.

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