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quote:

Originally posted by maxpain If THE GUVERNMENT has such a shitty attitude towards customers then how could it have survived for 8+ years

Holy fuck dude, I just spent a whole paragraph explaining why that argument makes no sense, AND YOU REPEAT IT!!! Are you dyslexic or just plain retarded?

The point of this debate, which you still have yet to counter, is that the Guvernment "survived 8+ years" not on customer service but on an otherwise stagnant club scene.

Not once did I claim that Boa would put the Guvernment out of business. Rather, Boa is merely one of many clear signs that the scene in general here is not stagnant anymore. It's taking off, and very quickly, and anyone with half a brain can see that it's only a matter of time before enough other clubs spring up to eliminate the "need" for the Guvernment. One 1500-capacity club may not hold the regular Saturday night attendance, but ten 1500-capacity clubs certainly will. And unfortunately for you, shit service isn't an "industry-wide" problem as you imagine it to be; virtually every other club in the city, with the possible exception of Lucid, handles it just fine.

The sketch crowd will keep going to the Guvernment because it suits them and because they can get away with anything there. But if that's what you consider "success", then you might as well invest your money into a titty bar instead.

Are you getting it? Your argument keeps begging the question, "how could Guv survive for so long with shitty customer service". I answered that question, twice now. Please don't ask it again and make yourself look like even more of an idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut The point of this debate, which you still have yet to counter, is that the Guvernment "survived 8+ years" not on customer service but on an otherwise stagnant club scene. Not once did I claim that Boa would put the Guvernment out of business. Rather, Boa is merely one of many clear signs that the scene in general here is not stagnant anymore. It's taking off, and very quickly, and anyone with half a brain can see that it's only a matter of time before enough other clubs spring up to eliminate the "need" for the Guvernment. One 1500-capacity club may not hold the regular Saturday night attendance, but ten 1500-capacity clubs certainly will. And unfortunately for you, shit service isn't an "industry-wide" problem as you imagine it to be; virtually every other club in the city, with the possible exception of Lucid, handles it just fine. The sketch crowd will keep going to the Guvernment because it suits them and because they can get away with anything there. But if that's what you consider "success", then you might as well invest your money into a titty bar instead. .

Out of all of the clubs you listed that would supposidly help kill off THE GUVERNMENT only one hasn't opened yet and that one is REPUBLIK which has a capacity of 1500 and yet you are trying to say that if 10 clubs with the capacity of 1500 open up then THE GUVERNMENT is in trouble but this arguement is only a hypathetical one and isn't reality and therefore it isn't valid because there isn't 10 REPUBLIK type of clubs opening up all at once and only one opening up and the other clubs you mentioned have been around for a while now and have done well over the years and co-existed with THE GUVERNMENT. Until 10 more REPULBIK type of clubs open up all at once which have the capacity of 1500+ or if REPUBLIK some how increases their capacity to 10 000+ (which will not happen) then you can start making comparisions and bring talks but until then STFU!!!!!!

So you are saying that shit service isn't an industry wide problem and are basically saying that every club has great customer service except for THE GUVERNMENT and maybe LUCID. You still haven't been able to explain to me how so many ex GUVERNMENT employees have been able to get such high positions at other clubs and how many of them have gone on to have a lot of success at other clubs if THE GUVERNMENT has such horrible customer service?? How would anyone get hired at another club as head of security if THE GUVERNMENT had such a bad reputation with customer service? How would people have been able to become top promoters and bartenders ect. at other clubs and in the city if GUVERNMENT employees have such bad people skills and customer service?

You have come out and said that THE GUVERNMENT and it's employees have amongst the worst customer service and people skills in the city which is a really generalized statement and have not given any specific examples of this after making such a vague statement.

If you think that club owners are opening up clubs for fun or out of bordom or just for the fuck of it to kill time or for some reason other than making money then you are sadly mistaken and know nothing about this industry which is a BUSINESS in case you haven't noticed! By the way I have been involved in this industry since I was 16 in both Europe and here and have yet to see some sort of an "upscale" afterhours that doesn't have a "sketch" crowd in one way or another so cut the bullshit unless you know some afterhours which is comparable to THIS IS LONDON or EASY ON THE FIFTH which I don't believe exists

I enjoy how you capitalize THE GUVERNMENT and REPUBLIK.

Is it some ineffective promotional tactic or something?

LOL - Well that was certainly entairtaining at 8:30 in the morning. The Guv gets bashed a lot, but i'm pretty sure it's business isn't going to suffer. I'm not a Guvaholic, but it does have some problems which it needs to address (this is true of almost every club though). I could personally do with more crowd control during the big events, and more polite security, but then again when i think about other big clubs i've been to, they have been no different.

Big Clubs + Big Events = Big Crowds

I agree with a few sentiments that people in Toronto do complain a little too much about factors that just can not be avoided. They could cap off the number of people who go to the Guv, but then you'd get people bitching about how they weren't allowed in, etc.

The sketch factor is again something that shouldn't really be an issue. EVERY club i've been to in TO (Guv, Viva, Boa, System, CZ) has been sketchy when it comes time to leave. If a club doesn't have the sketchy component it's probably not a very good dance club (at least to me). I'm not sure why anyone should care about sketchiness unless it is somehow directly effecting you -- and even if that happens, you deal with it - cause it's not really the clubs fault that people are doing drugs (i know it is -- but hell, which dance club doesn't know people are doing drugs while they are there ?)

Finally, i'm not sure any club currently operating in TO can ever replace the Guv. There is something about the super clubs that a small-medium sized club can just never replicate. Service aside...partying alongside 6000 people ( or however many the Guv crams through its doors) is not the same as 1500.

I'm over the massive parties myself -- but hell, once in a while i don't mind going to a super party with just a sea of partiers have a good time.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper I enjoy how you capitalize THE GUVERNMENT and REPUBLIK. Is it some ineffective promotional tactic or something?

In case you haven't noticed I do capitalize the names of EVERY club I mention so keep your eyes open and your mouth shut

^^^^^^
Easy there tiger, no need to get all riled -- she's not bald !

on the pwnage though...

quote:

Originally posted by Kytracid ^^^^^^ Easy there tiger, no need to get all riled -- she's not bald ! on the pwnage though...

It doesn't matter if they have a full head of hair like a rock star or are as bald as Mr.Clean, anyone who wants to come out and make smart ass comments which don't make sense will still end up feeling the PAIN!!!!! When people make stupid comments no one is spared

quote:

Originally posted by maxpain Out of all of the clubs you listed that would supposidly help kill off THE GUVERNMENT only one hasn't opened yet and that one is REPUBLIK which has a capacity of 1500 and yet you are trying to say that if 10 clubs with the capacity of 1500 open up then THE GUVERNMENT is in trouble but this arguement is only a hypathetical one and isn't reality and therefore it isn't valid because there isn't 10 REPUBLIK type of clubs opening up all at once and only one opening up and the other clubs you mentioned have been around for a while now and have done well over the years and co-existed with THE GUVERNMENT. Until 10 more REPULBIK type of clubs open up all at once which have the capacity of 1500+ or if REPUBLIK some how increases their capacity to 10 000+ (which will not happen) then you can start making comparisions and bring talks but until then STFU!!!!!! So you are saying that shit service isn't an industry wide problem and are basically saying that every club has great customer service except for THE GUVERNMENT and maybe LUCID. You still haven't been able to explain to me how so many ex GUVERNMENT employees have been able to get such high positions at other clubs and how many of them have gone on to have a lot of success at other clubs if THE GUVERNMENT has such horrible customer service?? How would anyone get hired at another club as head of security if THE GUVERNMENT had such a bad reputation with customer service? How would people have been able to become top promoters and bartenders ect. at other clubs and in the city if GUVERNMENT employees have such bad people skills and customer service? You have come out and said that THE GUVERNMENT and it's employees have amongst the worst customer service and people skills in the city which is a really generalized statement and have not given any specific examples of this after making such a vague statement. If you think that club owners are opening up clubs for fun or out of bordom or just for the fuck of it to kill time or for some reason other than making money then you are sadly mistaken and know nothing about this industry which is a BUSINESS in case you haven't noticed! By the way I have been involved in this industry since I was 16 in both Europe and here and have yet to see some sort of an "upscale" afterhours that doesn't have a "sketch" crowd in one way or another so cut the bullshit unless you know some afterhours which is comparable to THIS IS LONDON or EASY ON THE FIFTH which I don't believe exists

Words can't describe how large an imbecile you are. Do you read your posts before you submit them?

Business owners can serve their customers and keep an eye on the bottom line at the same time. It's not that difficult.

"Sketchiness" in the context of the Guv does not refer to people simply doing drugs. This discussion's been had several times on the forum, and the word in this connotation refers to a whole shitload of drug-induced bad behaviour, mostly by G monkeys and coke heads and people doing other weird shit like PCP or Dartura, starting fights or trying to rape girls on the dance floor. Staff at other clubs try not to let THOSE drugs into the club (have a good look at one of Boa's many "Zero tolerance for GHB" signs), and if they do get in and the shit starts to hit the fan, those staff are generally able to diffuse the situation rather than adding to it like the Guv employees do.

I'm not even going to answer the rest of that post, I'm only going to ask you one question Max: Why the fuck can't you grow the balls to admit that you work for the Guvernment? I remember last summer we had a Boa promoter, PartyHarlequin, on the boards and everyone was giving him shit even though he ADMITTED straight up that he promoted for them. You on the other hand keep fucking dodging the question or even lying outright - well fuck you, it's time to stop being a fucking pussy and own up to the shit you've stirred on here.

If your next post isn't a confession then it's onto ignore you go. Your rants aren't welcome here until you tell us who the hell you are.

quote:

Originally posted by maxpain When people make stupid comments no one is spared

Good thing Diginut is continuing to send the pain your way.

i doubt that maxpain is a promoter for anything. Security maybe, promoter? Nope.

^^^

Aren't all the Guv bouncers like hardcore coke heads ? Hmmm...it's all beginning to make sense now.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Business owners can serve their customers and keep an eye on the bottom line at the same time. It's not that difficult. "Sketchiness" in the context of the Guv does not refer to people simply doing drugs. This discussion's been had several times on the forum, and the word in this connotation refers to a whole shitload of drug-induced bad behaviour, mostly by G monkeys and coke heads and people doing other weird shit like PCP or Dartura, starting fights or trying to rape girls on the dance floor. Staff at other clubs try not to let THOSE drugs into the club (have a good look at one of Boa's many "Zero tolerance for GHB" signs), and if they do get in and the shit starts to hit the fan, those staff are generally able to diffuse the situation rather than adding to it like the Guv employees do.

Drug induced bad behaviour by G monkeys and coke heads and people doing PCP and dartura? First off what the fuck is dartura? I guess you must be a real drug expect and hardcore user if you know all this shit. Fights get started in every club and it doesn't mean that everyone who starts a fight is on something so wake up and secondly I have yet to see anyone try to rape someone on the dance floor or heard of anything like that going on so fuck off with your bullshit statements about GUV.

As for your statement saying that "staff at other clubs try not to let THOSE drugs into the club (have a good look at one of Boa's many "Zero tolerance for GHB" signs)" all I have to say to that is how can you think that a little sign is going to prevent anything from going in? Stop dreaming and if you really think that it's impossible for G, coke or anything else which you mentioned to inside BOA or any other club for that matter then you are sadly mistaken because people can get anything into ANY club one way or another if they really want to.

You say that GUV security esculate situations instead of defusing them and yet you haven't given any examples and still haven't answered the question of how do GUV guys get hired at other places for such high positions if GUV guys have such a bad reputation for having bad people skills, esculating situations and bad customer service?

I could go into specific detail on certain things and make you look very silly but why bother with you when you clearly don't know the inner workings of how clubs work and I don't wanna have to hear a bunch of you cry,bitch and moan over shit so I won't waste my breath because I know I can make you look very silly but choose not to because I have nothing to proove to someone who knows nothing but thinks he does.

I don't know why you insist on making this a GUVERNMENT VS BOA thing when it really isn't although thats where you always want to take this debate If BOA lasts another 8 years and are successful in that time then you can start making comparisions but until then shut the fuck up because as of right now you can't compare the two!!!! Keep in mind that many anti GUVERNMENT people aka GUV bashers hate on GUV out of jelousy and/or racism and hatred against Asians which is not cool.

quote:

Originally posted by maxpain Keep in mind that many anti GUVERNMENT people aka GUV bashers hate on GUV out of jelousy and/or racism and hatred against Asians which is not cool.

Jelousy? Racism? More like bad experiences.

quote:

Originally posted by maxpain Drug induced bad behaviour by G monkeys and coke heads and people doing PCP and dartura? First off what the fuck is dartura? I guess you must be a real drug expect and hardcore user if you know all this shit. Fights get started in every club and it doesn't mean that everyone who starts a fight is on something so wake up and secondly I have yet to see anyone try to rape someone on the dance floor or heard of anything like that going on so fuck off with your bullshit statements about GUV. As for your statement saying that "staff at other clubs try not to let THOSE drugs into the club (have a good look at one of Boa's many "Zero tolerance for GHB" signs)" all I have to say to that is how can you think that a little sign is going to prevent anything from going in? Stop dreaming and if you really think that it's impossible for G, coke or anything else which you mentioned to inside BOA or any other club for that matter then you are sadly mistaken because people can get anything into ANY club one way or another if they really want to. You say that GUV security esculate situations instead of defusing them and yet you haven't given any examples and still haven't answered the question of how do GUV guys get hired at other places for such high positions if GUV guys have such a bad reputation for having bad people skills, esculating situations and bad customer service? I could go into specific detail on certain things and make you look very silly but why bother with you when you clearly don't know the inner workings of how clubs work and I don't wanna have to hear a bunch of you cry,bitch and moan over shit so I won't waste my breath because I know I can make you look very silly but choose not to because I have nothing to proove to someone who knows nothing but thinks he does. I don't know why you insist on making this a GUVERNMENT VS BOA thing when it really isn't although thats where you always want to take this debate If BOA lasts another 8 years and are successful in that time then you can start making comparisions but until then shut the fuck up because as of right now you can't compare the two!!!! Keep in mind that many anti GUVERNMENT people aka GUV bashers hate on GUV out of jelousy and/or racism and hatred against Asians which is not cool.

Whenever I get the strength to go for a nite at the Guv, 99% of the time the security is rude.Take a minute & watch them sometimes ,I mean I have to give my head a shake at what these guys say/do.I remember a couple of years ago one of the Guv security almost picked a fight with ME & I didn't do ANYTHING AT ALL

As for Diginut being a drug addict?...If you read any of his posts its clear that he's no idiot & researches alot of info in order to prove his point.He may come across a bit strong but his bark is worse then his bite

As for dartura?...look here http://www.antipixel.com/blog/archi.../28/datura.html

quote:

Originally posted by maxpain You say that GUV security esculate situations instead of defusing them and yet you haven't given any examples and still haven't answered the question of how do GUV guys get hired at other places for such high positions if GUV guys have such a bad reputation for having bad people skills, esculating situations and bad customer service?

What do you want, a fucking video of it? Everybody here knows exactly what I'm talking about, so don't delude yourself into thinking you're proving anything with your skepticism.

I didn't answer your question about how Guvernment employees get hired at other places because the question makes no sense. What exactly is the implication here, that the Guvernment writes employee reports and sends them to all the other clubs in the city so that bad employees will never get hired anywhere else? It is precisely BECAUSE the Guvernment doesn't give a FUCK about what its employees do that they are ABLE to get hired elsewhere! If these other clubs actually knew what a bunch of pigs and tarts these people were, their applications would be torn up and used as confetti!

quote:

I could go into specific detail on certain things and make you look very silly but why bother with you when you clearly don't know the inner workings of how clubs work and I don't wanna have to hear a bunch of you cry,bitch and moan over shit so I won't waste my breath because I know I can make you look very silly but choose not to because I have nothing to proove to someone who knows nothing but thinks he does.

It seems to be a theme with you that you always CAN make someone else look silly but never DO. Why don't you put your fucking money where your mouth is and also tell us WHERE YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION.

quote:

I don't know why you insist on making this a GUVERNMENT VS BOA thing when it really isn't although thats where you always want to take this debate If BOA lasts another 8 years and are successful in that time then you can start making comparisions but until then shut the fuck up because as of right now you can't compare the two!!!! Keep in mind that many anti GUVERNMENT people aka GUV bashers hate on GUV out of jelousy and/or racism and hatred against Asians which is not cool.

As a matter of fact it's YOU that's making this a "Guvernment vs Boa" thing, not me. I used Boa as an example of clubs that don't tolerate bullshit, but that was merely an example.

Jealousy? Laughable. By that logic, anybody who's financially successful is immune to criticism because their critics are just "jealous". We've had many legitimate criticisms of the Guvernment which people like you seem to conveniently ignore, and since you OBVIOUSLY WORK THERE, it's those kind of self-important, self-serving attitudes which make the place such a shit hole.

And now, I've had enough of your games. Everybody look at the window, because maxpain's credibility just flew out of it.

Max, after all this time you still don't have the balls to come clean with your relationship to the Guvernment. That makes you, like all other Guvernment employees, an egomaniacal self-important blowhard with no social skills and no sense of responsibility. Kudos! You're on my ignore list now.

Actually i think you just get offended that a lot of Guv employees have an opinion that is contrary to yours. By the way im pretty sure maxpain has no affiliation to guvernment and for the record i have seen him speak badly about guv and positive about boa in other realms in the past.

Digi, we all know you dont like Guvernment but you seem to make it a passion to bash the place. If i didnt know any better i'd be calling on you to out your affiliation with Boa. But that would be silly wouldnt it?

My personal opinion? Comparing Guv to Boa is like comparing chalk and cheese. They have 2 almost completely different demographics. Oh sure there are some nights that cross but i like to compare the difference to Industry and Guvernment. They were both huge on Saturday nights and actually shared clientele. Guv patrons would leave early to go to Industry or vice versa. It was a weekly thing to get the best of both world.s

Yeah, that's it. It's just an amazing coincidence that none of the Guv-lovers on this board can ever make any sense.

Once again, I never compared the Guvernment to Boa. It was only the anal-retentive Guvernment champions that tried to make it into that.

When exactly have you seen max talk poorly of the Guvernment again?

look it up

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 look it up

How about, if you're going to make claims like that, either YOU look it up or shut up?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut How about, if you're going to make claims like that, either YOU look it up or shut up?

Why do u even care?

(to use digilogic on club opinions) How much are they paying you to bash guv?

Club bashing is overrated. STFU and stop bitching like a fucking 5 year old who is used to getting their way but whine when things go sour and don't go the way you want.

agreed, you guys are fuckin losers, go outside for a change

quote:

Originally posted by Endlesswave Club bashing is overrated. STFU and stop bitching like a fucking 5 year old who is used to getting their way but whine when things go sour and don't go the way you want.

agreed yet lame, who cares, as long as the music is good, the alchohol is there and a lot of fun!

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I didn't answer your question about how Guvernment employees get hired at other places because the question makes no sense. What exactly is the implication here, that the Guvernment writes employee reports and sends them to all the other clubs in the city so that bad employees will never get hired anywhere else? It is precisely BECAUSE the Guvernment doesn't give a FUCK about what its employees do that they are ABLE to get hired elsewhere! If these other clubs actually knew what a bunch of pigs and tarts these people were, their applications would be torn up and used as confetti! As a matter of fact it's YOU that's making this a "Guvernment vs Boa" thing, not me. I used Boa as an example of clubs that don't tolerate bullshit, but that was merely an example.

So you still haven't answered my question asking how the heck did ex GUV employees get hired to do high ranking positions at other clubs? Why are there so many head doorman around the city who worked at THE GUV incuding Earle@INSIDE,Kevin@NYC,Gus@VIVA,John T@REPUBLIK,Tan Tan@EASY AND THE FIFTH,Blake@THERAPY who is now a manager ect. ect? Why has you favourite club BOA hired ex GUV security as well? Was Hani(Rony) from BOA not involved with THE GUVERNMENT too at one point? How did Zark and Ralph from ZRF and PROJECT ORANGE become top Toronto promoters if current and ex GUV people were so horrible? How are ex GUV bartenders getting hired all over the place?

I wasn't the one who was trying to turn this into some GUV VS BOA thing and it was actually Floorwhore from BOA who highlighted the words "(GUV) puts their customers first" and then put up (WTF sign) in response and Xavier Moriarty also wanted to dispute my statement about GUV actually making changes for the people after I stated that both Charles from THE GUVERNMENT and Rony (Hani) from BOA were both hands on owners and that this was the way that things should be which was a complement to the way that BOTH THE GUVERNMENT and BOA were being runned so I can't see any way that I was trying to start up some sort of GUV VS BOA thing when I was complimenting both clubs.


Diginut you were the one who mentioned the word BOA first by trying to say that BOA would be one of the clubs who would help kill of THE GUVERNMENT so you were obviously trying to make it into A BUNCH OF TORONTO CLUBS IN TORONTO VS THE GUVERNMENT and then tried to make it into a BOA VS THE GUVERNMENT things shortly after.

quote:

Originally posted by crazedcanuck Maxpain, hardcoretrancer, instead of throwing insults, try arguing with counter-points. Where in his analogy is Diginut wrong? The Guv has gone with a businesss plan that caters to a variety of people, with it's multiple siderooms and lounges like The Drink and The Orange Room. These other rooms play different music than edm, allowing the Guv to offer everything you find on Richmond St on a Friday or Saturday night. I've always compared the Guv to the Joker, or Whiskey Saigon.. They have 3 floors, 3 genres, a mashing of crowds, same principle is in use @ the Guv. Maximum marketablility. When you have that kind of draw, and such a huge chunk of the market, customer service is something that is going to lack bigtime. Perhaps it's intentional, perhaps it's just because you can't handle large volumes of people in this industry in a mostly positive manner with a staff situation such as that. You are entitled to like the places you go, and people who haven't enjoyed themselves there are equally entitled to dislike the places they have negative experiences at.

THE DRINK doesn't play edm aka Electronic Dance Music? What the hell would you call house then? Are DJ's Manzone and Strong playing country or hp hop tunes all night long?

Don't compare THE GUVERNMENT to JOKER and WHISKEY SAIGON (now called JOE Nightclub by the way) because there is no comparision. JOKER and JOE don't play 3 different genres on 3 different floors and play 2 different genres at very most but oh well I guess you haven't been downtown recently seeing how you think that WHISKEY SAIGON is still around and all

JOKER and JOE aren't nearly as successful as THE GUVERNMENT so this maximum marketability thing you speak about isn't so simple to pull off now is it? GUV compared to JOKER and W.S(JOE) is is an invalid comparision and neither plays much house or trance unless you want to count the Z103.5 Fridays@JOKER on Fridays as a house or trance night when half the stuff played is hip hop,raggae or R&B

There aren't any other clubs in Toronto where you have so many clubs in one complex and trying to compare THE GUVERNMENT to JOKER or W.S(JOE) is a weak comparision seeing how GUV has 3 times the rooms (small clubs) as both of those clubs and it's hard to compare THE GUVERNMENT to any other club because THE GUVERNMENT is so unique.

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