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-- Muslim invasion of Europe - Triumph of the East
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Originally posted by ShadoWolf looks like we have another self-hater on our hand

Dude, thats true, have you read history of what they did in Spain?!?!.. and that makes me a hater?!?!.. COme on pleaseee, dont be lame

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Originally posted by TheVrk Its easy malek: The term Christianity has been manipulated and morphed WAAAAAY out of original Catholic thinking. All Christianity means is that u believe in Jesus as your Saviour, which is cool, in that way i AM a Christian. But there are SOOOOOOOO many denominations that ARE Christian but have MUCH different beliefs/standards than the Catholic faith. All these born agains, united churches, lutherans, anglicans etc etc., DISTORT key beliefs and morals that MY faith is AGAINST. Believe me, my people in Croatia's beliefs/values are MUCH different than those in the US or Britain for example. So NO, I am NOT a Christian like so many others, I AM a CATHOLIC

It is true that there are churches that morphed out of the Catholic church, but there are others that were borned independently... without rooting out of the Catholic church. It is true that each Christian church has different beliefs and values, but this are basically made up by their own, not coming directly from the Bible, like the i one common thing that they all share, and that is the Bible, which basically carries all the values and beliefs ( COMMANDMENTS ANYONE ?!?! ) .. so yes, I dont see how they would differ so much in this types of terms... now it comes down what each church sort of makes up for their own rules and laws, or who to praise, in this case, the catholics have a lot of Saints whom they pray to, and that differs by country as well, while other churches just praise Jesus and God and Holy Ghost- so the rest of things are separate from what the original laws in Bible say.. thats a whole different issue, Christian is a general term for anyone that believes in the Saviour Jesus.. but yes, if one has a religion, one should say so.. weather a Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, etc etc ..

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Originally posted by TheVrk Its easy malek: The term Christianity has been manipulated and morphed WAAAAAY out of original Catholic thinking. All Christianity means is that u believe in Jesus as your Saviour, which is cool, in that way i AM a Christian.

Well, yes, but there are also a lot of things that the catholic church invented just to be different from the ortodox church. So if we're really gonna be nitpics, the most non-distorted beliefs are held by the ortodox church.

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But there are SOOOOOOOO many denominations that ARE Christian but have MUCH different beliefs/standards than the Catholic faith. All these born agains, united churches, lutherans, anglicans etc etc., DISTORT key beliefs and morals that MY faith is AGAINST. Believe me, my people in Croatia's beliefs/values are MUCH different than those in the US or Britain for example.

I'm not that sure that British belief system is that much different from ours. US maybe, because their bible belt wackoes are not far from Jehova's witnesses.

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So NO, I am NOT a Christian like so many others, I AM a CATHOLIC

Look, being a catholic is a more narrow term than being a christian, but catholics are a subgroup of christians. It's like me saying I'm not croatian, I'm a Zagreber (I guess that's how you'd say it in english). It is correct that I'm from Zagreb but there's no way for me not to be a croatian citizen at the same time.

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Originally posted by malek look, what if, I came to your house and started telling you that the way your family is organized, the way you treat your wife and your children is basically flawed and wrong. That my ways of dealing with this issues are the best because..., well because they're the best. This implies that your family, your fathers' family, your ancestors, and everyone else in your community/city/state have always been wrong and that I am right... what would you tell him? I think you would tell him to fuck off or You guys in Brazil enjoy the Carnival of Rio, this muslim/Christian guy who comes to live in Brazil, says its morally wrong and that it should be banned. But you guys in Brazil have had the Carnival for so long and its part of being Brazilian... wouldn't you tell the guy that he's way off?? wouldn't you feel insulted by this immigrant? That he's not trying to change himself to fit in the society but instead tries to change the society so that it pleases his belifs?!!

I totally agree. If you've come to live in a western state, then you should accept their culture instead of bragging on how your culture is better. Especially since modern day islam culture is in many areas inferior to that of the western world. If you don't like it, go back home.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 I'm not that sure that British belief system is that much different from ours. US maybe, because their bible belt wackoes are not far from Jehova's witnesses.

I'm tellin you the UK is not a Christian country (I think Shadow Wolf or someone said that we have more Muslims attending Mosque than Christains attending Church and I wouldn't doubt that) And Jedi is an official religion in this country - I shit you not!!

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Look, being a catholic is a more narrow term than being a christian, but catholics are a subgroup of christians. It's like me saying I'm not croatian, I'm a Zagreber (I guess that's how you'd say it in english). It is correct that I'm from Zagreb but there's no way for me not to be a croatian citizen at the same time.

THIS i agree with....
Being Catholic is more narrow than a Christian indeed.
Catholicsm is much more conservative and strict than most other
Christian denominations - less tolerant.

RE:malek:

The Orthodox church is a little different than the Catholic.
They celebrtae key holidays on different dates (ie Easter & Chrsitmas)and have other differences as well....
But I would consider Orthodox much closer to Catholicsm than
the aforementioned "Christian" faiths.....

My bottom line: GENERALLY, Muslims in the Arab world who dislike or
hate Christians, WRONGLY associate them all as one.
Their hatred is for America and the West, and they falsely (tho NOT
intentionally) hate all faiths tied to Jesus.
Ex. They are against the US, UK, AND Russia, tho they do not share the same faith - Russia being Orthodox.

I do NOT want to be associated IN ANYWAY religiously with the US or UK. My family, my people do not share almost ANYTHING with their
policies and beliefs. Yet i'm afraid that ignorant people who do hate the US/UK GENERALIZE us with them. We are not as they are

quote:

Originally posted by TheVrk THIS i agree with.... Being Catholic is more narrow than a Christian indeed. Catholicsm is much more conservative and strict than most other Christian denominations - less tolerant. RE:malek: The Orthodox church is a little different than the Catholic. They celebrtae key holidays on different dates (ie Easter & Chrsitmas)and have other differences as well.... But I would consider Orthodox much closer to Catholicsm than the aforementioned "Christian" faiths..... My bottom line: GENERALLY, Muslims in the Arab world who dislike or hate Christians, WRONGLY associate them all as one. Their hatred is for America and the West, and they falsely (tho NOT intentionally) hate all faiths tied to Jesus. Ex. They are against the US, UK, AND Russia, tho they do not share the same faith - Russia being Orthodox. I do NOT want to be associated IN ANYWAY religiously with the US or UK. My family, my people do not share almost ANYTHING with their policies and beliefs. Yet i'm afraid that ignorant people who do hate the US/UK GENERALIZE us with them. We are not as they are

Who is associating Croatia with the US/UK?

And if you are talking about Russia, they are hated by Muslims because of Chechnya, nothing to do with Russia's religious beliefs

Anyway, if you read the ideologies, I dont think radical Muslims hate Christians, just the ones that hate/oppress them (in the society bin Laden et al want, Christians and Jews and guaranteed security and freedom to practice their religion, but do not have all the rights Muslims citizens have, like the right to vote)

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf

Islam does want to conquer the world, just like everyone else you dumb dik. Unlike Chritians, Muslims did in a tasteful manner...rather slaughtering women and children both Muslim and Jews.

BTW, about your quote "Unlike Christians, Muslims think they are right..." r u really dumb...i'll leave it at that.

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Originally posted by George Smiley Who is associating Croatia with the US/UK?

Muslim extremists. These are the people that hate ALL people not Muslim. Believe me i KNOW from the war in Croatia and Bosnia in the mid-90s - bin Laden supported Muslims there too, even tho we (Croats)
GOT ALONG with the Muslims in the region.

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And if you are talking about Russia, they are hated by Muslims because of Chechnya, nothing to do with Russia's religious beliefs

Dood, I know this. Russia is more considered atheist by Muslim extremists from the Soviet days and war with Afghanistan.

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Anyway, if you read the ideologies, I dont think radical Muslims hate Christians, just the ones that hate/oppress them (in the society bin Laden et al want, Christians and Jews and guaranteed security and freedom to practice their religion, but do not have all the rights Muslims citizens have, like the right to vote)

Problem is this is what u THINK, but NOT reality. Radical/extremist
Muslims like the Taliban hate ALL Christians and EVERYTHING from the West. They consider them evil - and when it comes to the US/UK, who can blame them for such a viewpoint?
The US/UK have occupied lands of theirs, and continue to do so.

It's for THIS reason i dont like Croatia associated AT ALL with US/UK.
MY POINT: Radical Muslims STILL DO


I dont want ANYONE to think that i believe Muslims are trying
to take over the world - i DONT.
Only the EXTREMISTS would like to control it, but extremists of
ANY religion/faith want the same control

quote:

Originally posted by malek look, what if, I came to your house and started telling you that the way your family is organized, the way you treat your wife and your children is basically flawed and wrong. That my ways of dealing with this issues are the best because..., well because they're the best. This implies that your family, your fathers' family, your ancestors, and everyone else in your community/city/state have always been wrong and that I am right... what would you tell him? I think you would tell him to fuck off

What would I slag him off for? If I were sure my way was right, I wouldn't need to feel offended in the first place.

I should listen to what he's got to say. Just because my ancestors have been doing something (or my community, for that matter), it doesn't mean that it is right, that it should be right or that I should cling to the traditions for some reason. That's what outsiders are good for: they see things we can't see because we're used to it.

Secondly, I'd need to understand why he's saying that and how he's saying that. Someone who's too passionate about his views is often the one who doesn't have much reasoning to back his opinion up, or who still has many issues to deal with, and a hostile reaction would do nothing but get the situation worse.

Thirdly, I've got to think about it and check whether there's anything to be changed or not. If I disagree with what he said, I will keep doing things my way.

quote:

Originally posted by malek You guys in Brazil enjoy the Carnival of Rio, this muslim/Christian guy who comes to live in Brazil, says its morally wrong and that it should be banned. But you guys in Brazil have had the Carnival for so long and its part of being Brazilian... wouldn't you tell the guy that he's way off?? wouldn't you feel insulted by this immigrant? That he's not trying to change himself to fit in the society but instead tries to change the society so that it pleases his belifs?!!

Once again, there's no insult. If I thought his words are unfair, I should explain him why things work that way. If he didn't accept the explanation, there's nothing I could do. It's his problem, I'm not necessarily the one who's got to solve it. I can show him the other side, but that's it. You're right to think that he should fit in the society rather than having the society pleasing him, but if he's not mature enough to realise it, I shouldn't be even more immature to want him being the way I want him to be. I've got my own mistakes to work on.

quote:

Originally posted by TheVrk Muslim extremists. These are the people that hate ALL people not Muslim. Believe me i KNOW from the war in Croatia and Bosnia in the mid-90s - bin Laden supported Muslims there too, even tho we (Croats) GOT ALONG with the Muslims in the region.

What, like these four you mean?...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3594631.stm

Come on, face it, everyone in Yugoslavia fucked the Muslims

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Problem is this is what u THINK, but NOT reality. Radical/extremist Muslims like the Taliban hate ALL Christians and EVERYTHING from the West. They consider them evil - and when it comes to the US/UK, who can blame them for such a viewpoint?

The hatred has nothing to do with their religious beliefs, it is due to the way Muslims have been treated by other groups. These extremists you talk about hate those who treat them bad, but they would have no problems with other groups if they dont treat them bad...look thru history, the Muslims protected the Jews during the Crusades against the Christians as the Jews did nothing to them. Now the reason they hate Jews is because of what Israel does to Muslims (and Christians) in Palestine. There is nothing whatsoever in the religious beliefs of Islam that states they must hate other religions

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It's for THIS reason i dont like Croatia associated AT ALL with US/UK. MY POINT: Radical Muslims STILL DO

Still blaming US/UK??? If radical Muslims hate Croats, that has nothing to do with the US/UK, and everything to do with the atrocities Muslims suffered at the hands of the Croats

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I dont want ANYONE to think that i believe Muslims are trying to take over the world - i DONT. Only the EXTREMISTS would like to control it, but extremists of ANY religion/faith want the same control

That is rubbish. Sorry, but it is. Where on Earth did you get the idea bin Laden is trying to control the world from?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

Do you thin this is some James Bond film or what?

Let me give you a little advice...when our politicians tell us bin Laden wants to kill us all, that he wants to take over the world, USE YOUR BRAIN...they have an agenda, and people like you fall for it hook line and sinker. Do you think they would have any support for the war on terror if they said, yea well, bin Laden wants US troops out of Saudi Arabia? We'd probably say well get troops out of Saudi Arabia wouldn't we? But that does not fit in with America's agenda does it?????????

finally, someone who knows what they're talking about ---> GeorgeSmiley
pretty acurate post.

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Originally posted by TheVrk THIS i agree with.... Being Catholic is more narrow than a Christian indeed. Catholicsm is much more conservative and strict than most other Christian denominations - less tolerant.

Well, having the experience of living both in Croatia and the Midwest, I must say that average protestant sects in the US are much less tolerant. Of course, we too have our own wackoes, like that guy Kacunko (our chief military priest) who said that christians should burn their television sets because of the anti-christian propaganda being spread on the tv and that Tudjman may have died because of a voodoo ritual...but still, most people here at least accept evolution as a plausible theory and don't think that the world is 10000 years old and that Noah's ark really existed, something that is not really the case in midwest (must suck to be in Opus's place ).

quote:

My bottom line: GENERALLY, Muslims in the Arab world who dislike or hate Christians, WRONGLY associate them all as one. Their hatred is for America and the West, and they falsely (tho NOT intentionally) hate all faiths tied to Jesus.

Heh, that is kinda contradictory because their own faith is also tied to Jesus. But yes, their extremists do dislike christians. Hell, they even dislike other muslims who are not of their own sect. Although it's not like christians are really much different.

quote:

Muslim extremists. These are the people that hate ALL people not Muslim. Believe me i KNOW from the war in Croatia and Bosnia in the mid-90s - bin Laden supported Muslims there too, even tho we (Croats) GOT ALONG with the Muslims in the region.

Yes, except for that little war we had.

quote:

It's for THIS reason i dont like Croatia associated AT ALL with US/UK. MY POINT: Radical Muslims STILL DO

Well, we only had problems with radical muslims because we directly interfered with them, like when we attacked muslims in bosnia or turned over to the US that leader of Gama al Islamiya and they blew a car bomb in Rijeka (not that I think we shouldn't have turned him over). Now, while it is true that they dislike all christian nations, they usually don't make direct assaults without being provoked.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley What, like these four you mean?... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3594631.stm

Hehe, Praljak is the uncle of one guy that was in my class in highschool

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Come on, face it, everyone in Yugoslavia fucked the Muslims

Well, everyone in Yugoslavia fucked everyone else, it wasn't really an anti-muslim conspiracy like you make it seem.

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The hatred has nothing to do with their religious beliefs, it is due to the way Muslims have been treated by other groups. These extremists you talk about hate those who treat them bad, but they would have no problems with other groups if they dont treat them bad...look thru history, the Muslims protected the Jews during the Crusades against the Christians as the Jews did nothing to them. Now the reason they hate Jews is because of what Israel does to Muslims (and Christians) in Palestine. There is nothing whatsoever in the religious beliefs of Islam that states they must hate other religions

I tend to disagree here. Muslims in the middle east are not some sort of peace loving hippies who are only defending their land. Bin Laden is a total maniac who wants to destroy the US and turn the whole of middle east into a big theocratic state. As far as Palestine is concerned, nobody forced Egypt and Syria to attack Israel and loose that part of their territory.

quote:

Let me give you a little advice...when our politicians tell us bin Laden wants to kill us all, that he wants to take over the world, USE YOUR BRAIN...they have an agenda, and people like you fall for it hook line and sinker. Do you think they would have any support for the war on terror if they said, yea well, bin Laden wants US troops out of Saudi Arabia? We'd probably say well get troops out of Saudi Arabia wouldn't we? But that does not fit in with America's agenda does it?????????

It's not just that he wants the US forces out of the region, he also wants to remove any trace of secularism in every single muslim nation, regardless of the necessarry means to do that. I really don't think that's something that should be allowed.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Hehe, Praljak is the uncle of one guy that was in my class in highschool

Small world eh?! Er...anyway...

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Well, everyone in Yugoslavia fucked everyone else, it wasn't really an anti-muslim conspiracy like you make it seem.

Never said it was an anti-Muslim conspiracy, just that the other guy couldn't understand why Islamic radicals hate Croats seeing as the Muslims and Croats "GOT ALONG" which clearly is not true

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I tend to disagree here. Muslims in the middle east are not some sort of peace loving hippies who are only defending their land. Bin Laden is a total maniac who wants to destroy the US and turn the whole of middle east into a big theocratic state. As far as Palestine is concerned, nobody forced Egypt and Syria to attack Israel and loose that part of their territory.

You should not confuse "Muslims in the Middle East" with bin Laden's crazies. You think they want to live in a theocracy?!?! Do they balls! It's really amazing (and ignorant/prejudiced) to all of a sudden assume anyone who is Muslim is a bin Laden style whacko. Look, I am Christian, but I'm not if you knwo what I mean. I was Christened so in the stats book about religion in the UK, I go down as a Christian. What makes you think the Middle East is not similar? Political Islam is a very recent phenomena (at least for the support/attention it is now recieving) Don't loo at the 'Muslim' world look at the 'Arab' world. Most of last century, there have been movements in the Middle East called Arab Nationalism (they wanted a federal state for the Arabs, not too dissimilar to the EU in Europe) This was the dominant driving force in the Middle East. And guess what? It was secular.

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It's not just that he wants the US forces out of the region, he also wants to remove any trace of secularism in every single muslim nation, regardless of the necessarry means to do that. I really don't think that's something that should be allowed.

I said ... " if they said, yea well, bin Laden wants US troops out of Saudi Arabia?" just as a little example of what he ACTUALLY wants, not what our governments TELL US HE WANTS. Your right of course about his aims, but thankfully, you dont go onto say he's trying to take over the world because bin Laden is not a stupid man is he? And only a stupid man would think they can take over the world, let alone want to do it for some reason!

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Originally posted by George Smiley Never said it was an anti-Muslim conspiracy, just that the other guy couldn't understand why Islamic radicals hate Croats seeing as the Muslims and Croats "GOT ALONG" which clearly is not true

You got all wrong here dood.
Of course i understand why ALL the problems in the Balkans happened - I'm FROM THERE, and have followed it EXTENSIVELY. You told me that "they" have an agenda, and you're right: WHAT U READ IS THE AGENDA.
That's not all true in your link - the US/UK WANTS a feud there,
and they promote it if anything. On ALL 3 sides truths were
exagerrated to benefit themselves.

Funny how DrUg TiTo (whos also from the area) agrees with me, and noy you, WHO HAS NEVER EVEN BEEN THERE let alone know ANY of the TRUE issues there. PLEASE dont teach me about something you have NO KNOWLEDGS of.

During the war, ALL sides were against each other - the Croats and Muslims BRIEFLY. They ARE NOW ALLIES/PARTNERS, and have been since 1997. All your information is based on articles and internet, whereas mine are FROM THE FRONT LINES.

Honestly, in the most POLITE way possible, U HAVE NO IDEA
what has EVER happenend in the Balkans, so dont tutor me, please.

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Originally posted by TheVrk You got all wrong here dood. Of course i understand why ALL the problems in the Balkans happened - I'm FROM THERE, and have followed it EXTENSIVELY. You told me that "they" have an agenda, and you're right: WHAT U READ IS THE AGENDA. That's not all true in your link - the US/UK WANTS a feud there, and they promote it if anything. On ALL 3 sides truths were exagerrated to benefit themselves. Funny how DrUg TiTo (whos also from the area) agrees with me, and noy you, WHO HAS NEVER EVEN BEEN THERE let alone know ANY of the TRUE issues there. PLEASE dont teach me about something you have NO KNOWLEDGS of. During the war, ALL sides were against each other - the Croats and Muslims BRIEFLY. They ARE NOW ALLIES/PARTNERS, and have been since 1997. All your information is based on articles and internet, whereas mine are FROM THE FRONT LINES. Honestly, in the most POLITE way possible, U HAVE NO IDEA what has EVER happenend in the Balkans, so dont tutor me, please.

What an arrogant twat eh?

Can you give me a list of every single country you have visited in the world and then kindly refrain from making any comment on any you have not visited??

Have you been to America or the UK?



And Drug-Tito agrees with you??

quote:

Well, everyone in Yugoslavia fucked everyone else

Sounds like it

Anyway, I spent 2 hours in Zargreb so that means I can comment all I want so fuck you "dood" whatever a "dood" is

In fact, would you not say I, as a neutral outsider, are in a far better position than you to comment on the Balkan war precisely because you WERE there? You are full of bias and ignorance and you seem blind to admit that "your side" could ever do anything wrong, when the TRUTH is, you (not you personally but those who represented you in that conflict and those who you are no defending) were just as bad as the Serbs

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Originally posted by sufee_b Islam does want to conquer the world, just like everyone else you dumb dik. Unlike Chritians, Muslims did in a tasteful manner...rather slaughtering women and children both Muslim and Jews.

That's one of the most outrageous I've ever seen here.

Have you ever heard of a Muslim missionary?



Note the sword. Convert or die.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf That's one of the most outrageous I've ever seen here. Have you ever heard of a Muslim missionary? Note the sword. Convert or die.

Er...thats the flag of Saudi Arabia and I'm pretty sure the sword represents the sword verses from the Koran?

Anyway, what the guy you replied to was saying is that the Christians, throughout history, have been the most bloodthirsty out of all the religions in their attempts for supremacy.

Your whole argument that Islam is somehow unique in its quest for global domination (which is bullshit by the way) falls flat on its arse if you knew anything about the Crusades/Inquisition/etc...but you dont, do you?

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf That's one of the most outrageous I've ever seen here. Have you ever heard of a Muslim missionary? Note the sword. Convert or die.

lol, yes Im sure that what the Saudis had in mind when they came up with the flag.

To enlighten your simpleton mind, the sword represents that given to Abdul-Aziz by his father. I should know, I lived in that country for 15 years (on a side note- not a pleasant place to live mind you).

Also, you dont see Muslim missionaries because its not their mission to rule the world you dolt.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf That's one of the most outrageous I've ever seen here.

You're in complete denial or ignorant if you think Christianity doesn't have a pretty bloody history.

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Originally posted by George Smiley Er...thats the flag of Saudi Arabia and I'm pretty sure the sword represents the sword verses from the Koran?

no Shadowwolf was right

Its convert or die by the sword...

god damn you hippies stop posting bs if you don't know shit about it.

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Originally posted by malek no Shadowwolf was right Its convert or die by the sword... god damn you hippies stop posting bs if you don't know shit about it.

Well the words on the flag mean "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet" and the sword represents Abd-al-Aziz who was the founder of the state of Saudi Arabia (and I assume it is his family still in charge although I am not sure)

Anyway, what has the flag of Saudi Arabia got to do with the stupid notion that the Muslims are trying to take over the world???

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Well the words on the flag mean "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet" and the sword represents Abd-al-Aziz who was the founder of the state of Saudi Arabia (and I assume it is his family still in charge although I am not sure)

yeah thats why lots of muslims wear it like the cross in their necks, even tho they have nothing to do with Saudi Arabia.


trust me, it means convert or die by the sword.

How the hell did Mohamet conquer the arabic peninsula and convert its inhabitants... with the coran? (very few knew how to read).

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Originally posted by malek yeah thats why lots of muslims wear it like the cross in their necks, even tho they have nothing to do with Saudi Arabia. trust me, it means convert or die by the sword. How the hell did Mohamet conquer the arabic peninsula and convert its inhabitants... with the coran? (very few knew how to read).

WHAT IS THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND CHRISTIANITY?????

FOR THE LAST BLOODY TIME!!!!

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