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quote:

Originally posted by JM hehe... true in a big way. no conservative spends as much $$$ as Pres. Bush. so what do you guys want? after all, you did get a liberal as a president >JM<

Giving money away doesn't make you a progressive, especially when it's due mostly to a misguided war. If spending money makes you a liberal, Bush and Reagan would have been the biggest liberals in recent memory.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X But they sure do make one hell of a wine!

You catch on quick.

Too bad sheeple don't.

My apologies. Sheeple are byproducts of behavior modification induced through brainwave manipulation from electronic medium or controlled environment combined with specialized diet and pharmacology.

Can't blame them, all they see their whole lives are shadows on the cave wall.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 Can't blame them, all they see their whole lives are shadows on the cave wall.

I'm sure that they would be enthralled by our world's diversity
- if only they would remove their blinders and take a look at the big picture.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X I'm sure that they would be enthralled by our world's diversity - if only they would remove their blinders and take a look at the big picture.[/color]

the irony is that you're the one not looking at the 'big' picture. if you did, you'd realize that us conservatives are not all the same, not all in the same pool you imagine us in. hence, maybe YOU are the one who needs to remove their blinders, stop segregating, and then, only if you try hard enough, will you be able to grasp the 'big' picture.

have a fun journey.

>JM<

quote:

Originally posted by JM the irony is that you're the one not looking at the 'big' picture. if you did, you'd realize that us conservatives are not all the same, not all in the same pool you imagine us in. hence, maybe YOU are the one who needs to remove their blinders, stop segregating, and then, only if you try hard enough, will you be able to grasp the 'big' picture. have a fun journey. >JM<

Where did I say that I was 'only' talking about conservatives?

If you were half as astute as you'd like to be, you'd understand that I'm talking about the majority of the population.

(and yes, including those who voted for Kerry)

>T-X<

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 You catch on quick. Too bad sheeple don't.

Yes, example #4,873,298,203,975,834 right there above me.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't hold that back.

I am just waiting for things to turn the temperature up by 33°.

There's no time to argue with the help.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

FYI, this is about a done deal:

quote:

"Real ID" Tacked Onto Military Funding Measure, Bill Would Enact Broad Changes Without Congressional Review May 4, 2005 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: [email protected] WASHINGTON - Congressional conferees have reportedly agreed on an appropriations bill to fund military operations, and attached the controversial Real ID Act to the bill. The Real ID Act will therefore likely be enacted without being scrutinized by any hearings or debate. The American Civil Liberties Union today expressed its disappointment that the final measure includes this sweeping legislation that rolls back asylum laws, attacks immigrants and sets the stage for a national ID. The House is expected to vote on the underlying measure this week; the Senate is expected to vote next week.

Source

If this is such a great idea that the American people really want, this should be voted on as a separate bill. Great how it's just been tied in with a bill that falls under the "support the troops" banner to avoid opposition. Ohhh...gotta go CNN is covering more "real news" about the runaway bride instead of this infringement on civil liberties.

People didn't seem to want to believe me when I was saying this two years ago.

There's much more to come. Hold on for the ride, kids.

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine16 Ohhh...gotta go CNN is covering more "real news" about the runaway bride instead of this infringement on civil liberties.

CFR freakshow.

your papers, please, comrade

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 your papers, please, comrade

Give it 3 more years...




FAQ: How Real ID will affect you
Published: May 6, 2005, 4:00 AM PDT
By Declan McCullagh
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

What's all the fuss with the Real ID Act about?
President Bush is expected to sign an $82 billion military spending bill soon that will, in part, create electronically readable, federally approved ID cards for Americans. The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved the package--which includes the Real ID Act--on Thursday.

What does that mean for me?
Starting three years from now, if you live or work in the United States, you'll need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service. Practically speaking, your driver's license likely will have to be reissued to meet federal standards.

The Real ID Act hands the Department of Homeland Security the power to set these standards and determine whether state drivers' licenses and other ID cards pass muster. Only ID cards approved by Homeland Security can be accepted "for any official purpose" by the feds.

How will I get one of these new ID cards?
You'll still get one through your state motor vehicle agency, and it will likely take the place of your drivers' license. But the identification process will be more rigorous.

For instance, you'll need to bring a "photo identity document," document your birth date and address, and show that your Social Security number is what you had claimed it to be. U.S. citizens will have to prove that status, and foreigners will have to show a valid visa.

State DMVs will have to verify that these identity documents are legitimate, digitize them and store them permanently. In addition, Social Security numbers must be verified with the Social Security Administration.

What's going to be stored on this ID card?
At a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, and a "common machine-readable technology" that Homeland Security will decide on. The card must also sport "physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes."

Homeland Security is permitted to add additional requirements--such as a fingerprint or retinal scan--on top of those. We won't know for a while what these additional requirements will be.

Why did these ID requirements get attached to an "emergency" military spending bill?
Because it's difficult for politicians to vote against money that will go to the troops in Iraq and tsunami relief. The funds cover ammunition, weapons, tracked combat vehicles, aircraft, troop housing, death benefits, and so on.

The House already approved a standalone version of the Real ID Act in February, but by a relatively close margin of 261-161. It was expected to run into some trouble in the Senate. Now that it's part of an Iraq spending bill, senators won't want to vote against it.

What's the justification for this legislation anyway?
Its supporters say that the Real ID Act is necessary to hinder terrorists, and to follow the ID card recommendations that the 9/11 Commission made last year.

It will "hamper the ability of terrorist and criminal aliens to move freely throughout our society by requiring that all states require proof of lawful presence in the U.S. for their drivers' licenses to be accepted as identification for federal purposes such as boarding a commercial airplane, entering a federal building, or a nuclear power plant," Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, a Wisconsin Republican, said during the debate Thursday.

You said the ID card will be electronically readable. What does that mean?
The Real ID Act says federally accepted ID cards must be "machine readable," and lets Homeland Security determine the details. That could end up being a magnetic strip, enhanced bar code, or radio frequency identification (RFID) chips.

In the past, Homeland Security has indicated it likes the concept of RFID chips. The State Department is already going to be embedding RFID devices in passports, and Homeland Security wants to issue RFID-outfitted IDs to foreign visitors who enter the country at the Mexican and Canadian borders. The agency plans to start a yearlong test of the technology in July at checkpoints in Arizona, New York and Washington state.

Will state DMVs share this information?
Yes. In exchange for federal cash, states must agree to link up their databases. Specifically, the Real ID Act says it hopes to "provide electronic access by a state to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other states."

Is this legislation a done deal?
Pretty much. The House of Representatives approved the package on Thursday by a vote of 368-58. Only three of the "nay" votes were Republicans; the rest were Democrats. The Senate is scheduled to vote on it next week and is expected to approve it as well.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan has told reporters "the president supports" the standalone Real ID Act, and the Bush administration has come out with an official endorsement. As far back as July 2002, the Bush administration has been talking about assisting "the states in crafting solutions to curtail the future abuse of drivers' licenses by terrorist organizations."

Who were the three Republicans who voted against it?
Reps. Howard Coble of North Carolina, John Duncan of Tennessee, and Ron Paul of Texas.

Paul has warned that the Real ID Act "establishes a national ID card" and "gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to unilaterally add requirements as he sees fit."

Is this a national ID card?
It depends on whom you ask. Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's technology and liberty program, says: "It's going to result in everyone, from the 7-Eleven store to the bank and airlines, demanding to see the ID card. They're going to scan it in. They're going to have all the data on it from the front of the card...It's going to be not just a national ID card but a national database."

At the moment, state driver's licenses aren't easy for bars, banks, airlines and so on to swipe through card readers because they're not uniform; some may have barcodes but no magnetic stripes, for instance, and some may lack both. Steinhardt predicts the federalized IDs will be a gold mine for government agencies and marketers. Also, he notes that the Supreme Court ruled last year that police can demand to see ID from law-abiding U.S. citizens.

Will it be challenged in court?
Maybe. "We're exploring whether there are any litigation possibilities here," says the ACLU's Steinhardt.

One possible legal argument would challenge any requirement for a photograph on the ID card as a violation of religious freedom. A second would argue that the legislation imposes costs on states without properly reimbursing them.

When does it take effect?
The Real ID Act takes effect "three years after the date of the enactment" of the legislation. So if the Senate and Bush give it the thumbs-up this month, its effective date would be sometime in May 2008.

http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID..._3-5697111.html

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Will state DMVs share this information? Yes. In exchange for federal cash, states must agree to link up their databases. Specifically, the Real ID Act says it hopes to "provide electronic access by a state to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other states."[/url]

Yes I feel sooo much safer now knowing that all my personal information can be readily shared all in one database so that some second rate hacker can come along, view it, and perform Identity Theft on me. But hey, these are just the small sacrifices, We, the American people have to make, to ensure a safer and better tomorrow. So what if they had to sneak it under an Emergency Relief Bill to force all of our representatives to approve it? It is for our own good! Bush is truly the champion of Fairness and Justice.

BTW, if it's the state DMV's that will be issuing the new cards, then does this mean our government will force the states to pay for this disaster of a bill? Because I seriously doubt the government will be paying for all the expenses on this, seeing as how they're "preserving our freedom" by spending billions on occupying a foreign country who hates us. And I'm guessing that producing all these new ID cards (which will probably have this RFID technology on them) and distriubting them to the millions of people who live in each state, would probably run the states millions of dollars in expenses. And California, the state I live in, is already in a massive deficit, thanks to the shit brained antics of our former governor. I really don't see how California will be able to pay for all this, even if it is 3 years away. Oh well, better just open more Indian Casinos and raise the taxes on the casino owners then. I'm sure they'll be more than willing to do so, seeing as it's for a safer and stronger America. Fuck Canada looks better every day.

With all the data theft going on now, we are supposed to believe that this info is going to be cached in safe hands?

I don't think so.

It's all one big database.

What you eat.

What you read.

What you say/write.

What you vote.

What you believe.

What you hate.

What you love.

Who you love.

Who you hate.

What drugs you get high with.

What medicines you take.

What medicines you don't take.

What post office you go to.

What store you go to.

What airline you fly.

What countries you visit.

What people you associate with.

What toothpaste you use.

What cigarettes you smoke.

What games you play.

What casinos you go to.

What music you like (tranceaddict.com is one duh).

What movies you like.

What kind of pc you have.

What operating system you use.

What browser you prefer.

What you google.

quote:

Originally posted by Zharen BTW, if it's the state DMV's that will be issuing the new cards, then does this mean our government will force the states to pay for this disaster of a bill?

Yep, this will be an enormous unfunded mandate for the states to pay for. The only positive that may come of that is the displeasure of many states, particularly California and New York, who will see the largest costs, may very well lead them to challenge this bill in the courts.

quote:

Outrage of the Week: Senate Unanimously Passes the "Real ID" Act In a 100-0 vote, the U.S. Senate passed the 2nd largest supplemental spending bill in the history of the nation. If that were not enough reason to question the common sense of our legislators, the Republican and Democrat leaders also passed the Real ID Act which was hidden within the spending bill. With the passing of the bill, states will have to abide by federal standards for providing driver's licenses and I.D. cards to citizens. States will also have to link their citizen databases to federal systems in order obtain funding for the program. Driver's licenses issued by states not fulfilling federal requirements will not be accepted by any federal agency. What does that matter? Here are a few scenarios that may occur if your state were to not fulfill the new federal obligations: Flying to see a relative in another state? Don�t forget your papers: Domestic travelers could not pass through airport security checkpoints without a passport or a "Real" I.D. card. Want to serve your country? Apply for a passport first: Prospective military enlistees could not meet identification requirements with only state issued identification. Want to get a job? Not without federal documentation: The INS I-9 form is a required document for all U.S. workers. Section Two of the form requires identification to be examined by the employer. As no federal agency will accept "old" driver's licenses, your I.D. would no longer be valid. Be sure to bring your passport along to your next job interview. Aside from the authoritarian restrictions that will be implemented within the next three years (the bill is to be fully implemented by May 2008 if signed by President George W. Bush), there are many other consequences of the bill. The forthcoming database sharing will now put U.S. citizens in the same class as criminals. While the Social Security Administration tracks names and employment data, the federal government will now have access to at least your physical description, disabilities, and your photo. In the past, this level of detail was only offered to the federal government within criminal databases. If you are comfortable with the above, please take the time today to send a "thank you" note to your Republican or Democrat senators. Be sure to let them know that you enjoy having your personal freedom and privacy stolen. Otherwise, choose to support the Libertarian Party, which will continue to follow principle and fight for your individual liberty. To discuss the Real ID Act on the new LP Blog, see: http://www.lp.org/yourturn/archives/000021.shtml

unanimous, time to post addresses and phone numbers of your government officials on the web, see how they feel

You mean their personal home phone and addresses before everyone starts posting the Capitol phone book.

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine16 Yep, this will be an enormous unfunded mandate for the states to pay for. The only positive that may come of that is the displeasure of many states, particularly California and New York, who will see the largest costs, may very well lead them to challenge this bill in the courts.

Actually I feel that's a dismal chance of that happening here. Governor Arnie here happens to be one of the biggest Bush supporters out there and a Republican. Even if the Californian people were to protest the bill, I doubt Arnold would bother challenging the law to the courts.

How the hell did I miss this thread ? So many sheeple out there who think that this is a good thing .

People believe what they want to believe, what they're told to believe, the tv cannot lie. This is what they know, this is all they will ever know.

The shame when you try to warn people.


They feel comfortable with the noose around their neck as they stand at the edge of the cliff and stare into the abyss....

...trusting those that put the rope around their neck.

Oh no, they might be implementing ID cards with tracking chips. *shivvers*

Hey, if they want to track me, they are more than welcome to, but its not my fault if they stumble upon me cranking one out to midget porn.

Yes, the govt has nothing better to do than to constantly monitor 300 million people 24/7.

They should use this to replace paper passports - this would definitely be more effective and quickerway of getting things done.

*Swipe ID* - *Swipe fingerprint* - *Officer checks the computer* - Youre clear to go.

I pity you paranoid people.

quote:

Originally posted by Vlad I pity you paranoid people.

I pity the cognitively challenged mind-slaves who lack the critical thinking skills necessary for them to fully research all of the available information which would allow them to put it together to form a proper perspective. They can't see the forest for the f*cking trees let alone put together a few pieces of a puzzle that plays out on the world stage on such a regular basis.

Their docile little brains have been so thoroughly ingrained with the erroneous idea that all of the individuals within the various branches of our government are always benevolent and that the corrupt bureaucrats are actually involved in performing good deeds for the sake of all humanity rather than for the sake of their own deeply lined pockets.

Anyway, I guess it's easy to mock what you don't understand, but to me that just seems like an easy way out. It really is pathetic, though - how some people would rather live with such ignorance.

I certainly would attribute such a benevolent sense of righteous indignation as one of the main reasons why some of us have mentally and spiritually evolved (where others have not.) And yes, I'm definitely saying this in the face of such mindless and misplaced ridicule.

Or to put it more succinctly - STFU, you twit!

quote:

Originally posted by Vlad *Swipe ID* - *Swipe fingerprint* - *Officer checks the computer* - Youre clear to go.

The easier to frame you with a crime you didn't commit. Like kiddie porn or molestation.

quote:

I pity you paranoid people.

A government that can't trust it's own citizens is a paranoid one.

Dutch Biometric Passport Cracked


LINK
posted at http://www.schneier.com/index.html
Two points stand out. One, the RFID chip in the passport can be read from ten meters. Two, lots of predictability in the encryption key -- sloppy, sloppy -- makes the brute-force attack much easier.

**************************************************************
LINK

Reading RFID Cards at Yards Away

This article talks about a not-a-passport ID card that U.S. citizens could use to go back and forth between the U.S. and Canada or Mexico. Pretty basic stuff, but this paragraph jumped out:

Officials said the card would be about the size of a credit card, carry a picture of the holder and cost about $50, about half the price of a passport. It will be equipped with radio frequency identification, allowing it to be read from several yards away at border crossings.
more info here:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/

It's cheap and does other things.

That's not by accident.

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