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-- Did Ferry Corsten killed trance?
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Look towards the bottom of the page with the Cartoon caption. HAHAHAH.


http://www.ishkur.com/fanmail/page16.php

wow I do actually agree with some of what that guy said, about the whole, "its all about the DJ", back when I used to go, it was about hearing great music, now it really is like a concert, and many just going just for the fact its a big celebrity DJ.

As for his views on anthem/dutch trance, saying about people wanting it to be bigger and have massive supersaws, if people were like this and only wanted it to get bigger and better, how come most of us would enjoy a mix from say 1998, when you can listen to something new with some massive supersaws, I see that there was more to it than that, they just seemed IMO that they just had a better mood to the music, almost like it had a soul, where as most of todays music seems very flat sounding and has no life, but this is just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by DannyO As for his views on anthem/dutch trance, saying about people wanting it to be bigger and have massive supersaws, if people were like this and only wanted it to get bigger and better, how come most of us would enjoy a mix from say 1998, when you can listen to something new with some massive supersaws

I think you are misunderstanding his point.

Let me try to explain

Epic Dutch trance in 1998 had a very similar format and sound as it does today ( this is the reason why people that like dutch trance today can listen to old dutch trance).

However, dutch trance has not moved forward musically, it just grew from its core ( i.e. the emotional breakdown). As a result it could be catorgized as Dutch Trance.

Ishkur correctly states that listeners of Dutch Trance only feel that the music is moving forward because of the extension of the breakdown or grandious emotional flare that grows with time.

This extension of the break down and/or its emotional flare , according to Ishkur, is the massive commericalization and cheesiness of Dutch Trance. I agree 100%. This is the definition of cheese. You take a format that works, dutch trance 1998, and you change it a little bit every year to continue to appeal to the same type of listeners.


Of course there are new instruments used to make Dutch Trance but the fact remains that the core of Dutch trance remains the same. This is why you can compare a dutch trance song from 1998 to 2005 and not find many differences expect for the instruments used. Same structure. Same emotion. Same format. Etc.


Ishkur correctly says that typically it takes 9 months of extensive Dutch Trance listening to realize this 'recelyed' nature of the music.

This is why its hard for part-time listeners or half-ass music people to understand the nature of dutch trance or dance music altogther.

People typical move past Dutch Trance once they 'mature' out of the genre. They begin to understand its nature and discover its commericalism each passing year.

The music has 'grown' in listeners because more newer virgin listeners are entering as expereinced listeners become sick of it. Eventually, everyone will finally recongize its recycled nature. this cycle can not continue forever.

Thus you have a 'virgin effect'. Listeners new to Dutch Trance or Trance say ' OMG this is great' but people fimilar with Trance or the genre are like ' I heard this before,what a rip off, this sucks' Eventually as people become more familar with dutch trance,the sheep will leave the flock or realize what it is not.

quote:

Originally posted by Az yeah mike foyle killed trance

im gonna start a mike foyle killed trance thread

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Balls Explain to me where and/or how the guide is a joke. I can see the Ferry Corsten comment as something to upset a few TA's but everything else is pretty accurate. Prove me wrong. Seriosuly. Show me where the guide is wrong.

Who the fuck do you think you are, you scrote?

Ferry Corsten is one of the pioneers of club trance, he pulled alot of money into the industry via alot of his bigger tracks. If you ask me, it's the kids who tried to imitate corsten's 99 sound that killed trance and made it stale, not corsten himself.

go take your face for a shit you condescending piece of muck....UKTA? like fuck.

scrote.

quote:

Originally posted by sandstorm03 im gonna start a mike foyle killed trance thread

Yes, that'd be cool as fuck.

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Balls Ishkur correctly says that typically it takes 9 months of extensive Dutch Trance listening to realize this 'recelyed' nature of the music. This is why its hard for part-time listeners or half-ass music people to understand the nature of dutch trance or dance music altogther. People typical move past Dutch Trance once they 'mature' out of the genre. They begin to understand its nature and discover its commericalism each passing year. The music has 'grown' in listeners because more newer virgin listeners are entering as expereinced listeners become sick of it. Eventually, everyone will finally recongize its recycled nature. this cycle can not continue forever. Thus you have a 'virgin effect'. Listeners new to Dutch Trance or Trance say ' OMG this is great' but people fimilar with Trance or the genre are like ' I heard this before,what a rip off, this sucks' Eventually as people become more familar with dutch trance,the sheep will leave the flock or realize what it is not.

Unbelievable. You exactly described my musical development towards dutch trance music. Even the period to realize the recycled nature of current trance music is almost accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by George Kendall go take your face for a shit you condescending piece of muck....UKTA? like fuck. scrote.

It's actually Dave Piazza.

quote:

Originally posted by George Kendall Yes, that'd be cool as fuck.

yes, it's called a natural progression, no1 wants to be listening to the same styles every year.

What Ferry did in 98/99 was Original at the time....then others copied and are still copying today....this isn't ferry's fault.

Although, not a fan of what Ferry is doing now, the people who are saying he killed trance are very ignorant.

quote:

Originally posted by UWM It's actually Dave Piazza.

OMG! why didn't you SAAY so?


sorry am I supposed to know who this is?

I guess not. Nevermind then, carry on.

quote:

Originally posted by George Kendall Who the fuck do you think you are, you scrote? Ferry Corsten is one of the pioneers of club trance, he pulled alot of money into the industry via alot of his bigger tracks. If you ask me, it's the kids who tried to imitate corsten's 99 sound that killed trance and made it stale, not corsten himself. go take your face for a shit you condescending piece of muck....UKTA? like fuck. scrote.

I never said Ferry Corsten killed trance. If you read my posts all I am saying is that Ishkur was very accurate in decribing the various genres. Funny but accurate.

I think trance was killed by others not just Ferry. Even though I haven't listened to him since 2003.


I do not understand why people get so hostile sometimes.

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Balls I never said Ferry Corsten killed trance. If you read my posts all I am saying is that Ishkur was very accurate in decribing the various genres. I think trance was killed by others not just Ferry. Even though I haven't listened to him since 2003. I do not understand why people get so hostile sometimes.

does ishkurs pillow taste good?

quote:

Originally posted by sandstorm03 does ishkurs pillow taste good?

What makes Ishkur the man to preach what has or hasn't happened in EDM? Isn't that just his opinion, so why are we getting in a hissy fit over?

If someone on hear said that Ferry killed trance we wouldn't get all pissy would we? Oh too, late...we have

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Balls I think you are misunderstanding his point. Let me try to explain Epic Dutch trance in 1998 had a very similar format and sound as it does today ( this is the reason why people that like dutch trance today can listen to old dutch trance). However, dutch trance has not moved forward musically, it just grew from its core ( i.e. the emotional breakdown). As a result it could be catorgized as Dutch Trance. Ishkur correctly states that listeners of Dutch Trance only feel that the music is moving forward because of the extension of the breakdown or grandious emotional flare that grows with time. This extension of the break down and/or its emotional flare , according to Ishkur, is the massive commericalization and cheesiness of Dutch Trance. I agree 100%. This is the definition of cheese. You take a format that works, dutch trance 1998, and you change it a little bit every year to continue to appeal to the same type of listeners. Of course there are new instruments used to make Dutch Trance but the fact remains that the core of Dutch trance remains the same. This is why you can compare a dutch trance song from 1998 to 2005 and not find many differences expect for the instruments used. Same structure. Same emotion. Same format. Etc. Ishkur correctly says that typically it takes 9 months of extensive Dutch Trance listening to realize this 'recelyed' nature of the music. This is why its hard for part-time listeners or half-ass music people to understand the nature of dutch trance or dance music altogther. People typical move past Dutch Trance once they 'mature' out of the genre. They begin to understand its nature and discover its commericalism each passing year. The music has 'grown' in listeners because more newer virgin listeners are entering as expereinced listeners become sick of it. Eventually, everyone will finally recongize its recycled nature. this cycle can not continue forever. Thus you have a 'virgin effect'. Listeners new to Dutch Trance or Trance say ' OMG this is great' but people fimilar with Trance or the genre are like ' I heard this before,what a rip off, this sucks' Eventually as people become more familar with dutch trance,the sheep will leave the flock or realize what it is not.

I get your point now, and do agree that the music is based around the dramatic buildups and what not, I still like it though, not so much now although there are some that I do think are worthy of my record box, but I find most genres have an element that is used over and over, kinda like a building block, I'm just glad I don't restrict myself to one genre, I always got about 5 other genres of EDM I goto untill some dutch trance track comes out that I like.

Stop calling it Dutch trance you idiots.

quote:

Originally posted by DannyO and do agree that the music is based around the dramatic buildups and what not, I still like it though, not so much now although there are some that I do think are worthy of my record box,

Exactly.

The point is not that someone is stupid for listen to the music but rather someone is stupid for not understanding its role and past in EDM.

Because you understand what Dutch Trance is that makes you different than the others who listen to it without regard to its stucture and history.

I promise you that once you embrace the idea of what is Dutch Trance ( dramitic recycled buildups, etc) you begin to listen to it diffently.

quote:

Originally posted by DannyO but I find most genres have an element that is used over and over, kinda like a building block, .

This is why ishkur is a genious. He was able to pick out all the elements that describe a genre and poke fun of it. more impressive is that his examples of songs fit perfectly towards his desciption.





Now if he argued his case about Ferry killing trance I might see his point. In that comment he was very vague and I couldn't understand his thought pattern.

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Balls Ishkur correctly says that typically it takes 9 months of extensive Dutch Trance listening to realize this 'recelyed' nature of the music. This is why its hard for part-time listeners or half-ass music people to understand the nature of dutch trance or dance music altogther. People typical move past Dutch Trance once they 'mature' out of the genre. They begin to understand its nature and discover its commericalism each passing year. The music has 'grown' in listeners because more newer virgin listeners are entering as expereinced listeners become sick of it. Eventually, everyone will finally recongize its recycled nature. this cycle can not continue forever.

in fairness, there are a lot of us that are 'still' listening to trance, despite having listened to it quite heavily - and the surrounding styles - for a number of years, and despite having spent a significant amount of time up to the neck in a music-related lifestyle. we're not listening to trance exclusively, of course, (heck that northern exposure we bought nearly ten years ago is still in regular rotation) but i think its inaccurate and maybe a bit condescending to imply (as i think you do) that trance is only for those who are: new to [insert this year's term for the broad electronic and dance music spectrum]; who don't spend a lot of time listening, or who are stupid.

and besides surely im missing something but should there not be at least a hint of irony when you suggest that 'recycling' is somehow bad, wrong, or to be looked down on? Where, in and across any genre(s) of music, does one not find rampant recycling and reinvention? if i had an atom of gold for each open 909 hihat ive heard, i'd be living on planet bling.

quote:

Originally posted by Nyquist_Theorem in fairness, there are a lot of us that are 'still' listening to trance, despite having listened to it quite heavily - and the surrounding styles - for a number of years, and despite having spent a significant amount of time up to the neck in a music-related lifestyle. not exclusively, of course, but i think its inaccurate and maybe a bit condescending to imply (as i think you do) that trance is only for those who are: new to [insert this year's term for the broad electronic and dance music spectrum]; who don't spend a lot of time listening, or who are stupid.

Of course it's condescending, but it's not very far from the truth.

the problem isn't the fact that people listen to all these new tracks comming out. Its the fact that when one does come out, all of the newer people think its the best track since the beggining of time, and feel like expressing them selves in stupid ways.

for example, OMFG i just heard this on the radio OMFG CHoooon!11111 10000000000000000/10 its the best track ever.

especially in new cd reviews/releases...

next some other kid that can not read 4 lines down says the same exact thing.


its been a while since ive seen a lot of these new sets from armin, darey, ronski, a & b...etc in the tracklist forum with any good productions at all. Its the same old bland stuff that everyone plays...

quote:

Originally posted by Nyquist_Theorem i think its inaccurate and maybe a bit condescending to imply (as i think you do) that trance is only for those who are: new to [insert this year's term for the broad electronic and dance music spectrum]; who don't spend a lot of time listening, or who are stupid.

I think you misunderstood me. Let me explain myself


All music can be catorgized, as Ishkur has shown us. Dutch Epic Trance is one specific category within Trance.


Now I focued my attention on Dutch Epic Trance because its a popular form of music on this forum ( i.e. ASOT, Tiesto,Ferry, etc) NOT THE ENTIRE GENRE OF TRANCE.

What is the differnce between Dutch Epic trance and TRANCE? Please read Ishkur's explanition.

Remeber my focus is on Dutch Epic Trance. OK.

Dutch Epic trance has an appeal to those who are new and unkowning to its structure and history ( not new or unknowing of dance music or the broad Trance genre) because ,in accord with Ishkur, those new listening to Dutch Epic Trance think its moving forward or 'new'.

however, the truth is that its recylced.

quote:

Originally posted by Nyquist_Theorem and besides surely im missing something but should there not be at least a hint of irony when you suggest that 'recycling' is somehow bad.

Recycling a sound over -and -over is the classic example of what it means to be cheesey.

An artist can get by unnoticed 'copying' a sound but not an entire genre, like what Dutch Trance did.




I am not trying to be condescending but rather explain myself. If you disagree with me than prove me wrong with proof.

Trance Is Dead Ishkur Killed It

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