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-- TTC On Strike?
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Originally posted by DigiNut Anybody who spends 2 hours in gridlock wouldn't make it to and from work at all if they had to take public transit. That is why we need better roads and expressways, or a major expansion of FAST public transport - NOT having our existing expressways torn down without any practical replacement in a petty environmentalist agenda to force people off the roads. People don't live in the GTA because they willingly accept the opportunity cost, they live here because there's no industry anywhere else.

I personaly value my time & thats why I drive AND live near downtown...I have no patience for commuting or wasting hours on end in traffic if I lived in Oshawa or someplace else out of town.Some of my co-workers do it & if they wanna live that way then all the power to them.

Man, if they go on strike, I will be ROYALLY screwed. Can't get to work, or to school without TTC. Definitely time to strike the unions down. From the paper this morning:

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TTC workers are seeking a 3 per cent raise in each year of a two-year deal, in keeping with what other transit unions accross Ontario have received in recent years. The TTC is offering 2 per cent each year over five years

wtf, what else do they want?

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Originally posted by zokissima Man, if they go on strike, I will be ROYALLY screwed. Can't get to work, or to school without TTC. Definitely time to strike the unions down. From the paper this morning: wtf, what else do they want?

Same raise as TTC management got a few months ago...5%...

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Originally posted by RobbyG. Same raise as TTC management got a few months ago...5%...

TTC Management aren't with a union though...actually no management is ever with a union...As far as I know mangement sometimes doesn't get raises at all....do they get 5% raise every year?

This also goes to show that the system is screwed up and mismanaged...

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Originally posted by starsearcher This also goes to show that the system is screwed up and mismanaged...

yep, obviously managment should not have gotten such a raise -- it's just about fairness, I can see how the union members only want the same for themselves.

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Originally posted by starsearcher This also goes to show that the system is screwed up and mismanaged...

TOTALLY...While the TTC can legitimately claim to be the worst-funded major urban transit system on the continent, its head-office salaries don't reflect this AT ALL.The TTC had 27 people earning $100,000 or more in 1999 and a CGM (David Gunn) earning approx. $164,997...By 2003, the number TRIPLED to 86 making over $100,000 and the current CGM (Dick Ducharme) raking in $241,519 by 2003

David Gunn ran a very tight ship but this new guy is hiring all the staff that Gunn got rid of because they we're NOT essential...

THIS is where the furor should fall on


The filthy rich getting even MORE rich...click here for salary disclosures under "Toronto Transit Corporation"

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Originally posted by RobbyG. TOTALLY...While the TTC can legitimately claim to be the worst-funded major urban transit system on the continent, its head-office salaries don't reflect this AT ALL.The TTC had 27 people earning $100,000 or more in 1999 and a CGM (David Gunn) earning approx. $164,997...By 2003, the number TRIPLED to 86 making over $100,000 and the current CGM (Dick Ducharme) raking in $241,519 by 2003 David Gunn ran a very tight ship but this new guy is hiring all the staff that Gunn got rid of because they we're NOT essential... THIS is where the furor should fall on The filthy rich getting even MORE rich...

hrm if I was a union worker with the TTC, i'd be kind of irked over this info too. It's only fair.

hence why no one takes busses. The money that does exist goes into peoples pockets. Much like how most other public services operate. i just cant wait until we get into the daycare boondoggles

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Originally posted by DigiNut This is all true, but as Jay said, time is money and that's something all too commonly left out of the TTC vs. car discussion. If you make $20 an hour and you waste on average an hour a day on surface transport (subways are another story but they only cover a tiny fraction of the GTA), that'll add up to about $5000 a year. I'd say it pretty much takes care of those other car maintenance things you're talking about. ...

nah, that's a bogus argument for the vast majority of the population. Most people can't work unlimited hours...and wouldn't choose to, even if they could.

If you make $20/hour while working a 9-5, and you have to get up an hour earlier to take the TTC vs. driving, it does NOT follow that you're somehow "out $20" as a result. Your time is only worth what you WOULD HAVE otherwise earned if you weren't in transit...you would have been sleeping...so "time = money" does not apply

this is an argument about convenience...no matter how you crunch the numbers, transit is cheaper than owning a car in most cases.

actually i consider my spare time to be worth much more than what my paid time actually pays. So $20 an hour is a conservative number.

Time = money is a very very basic principal of economics.

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Originally posted by MarkT nah, that's a bogus argument for the vast majority of the population. Most people can't work unlimited hours...and wouldn't choose to, even if they could. If you make $20/hour while working a 9-5, and you have to get up an hour earlier to take the TTC vs. driving, it does NOT follow that you're somehow "out $20" as a result. Your time is only worth what you WOULD HAVE otherwise earned if you weren't in transit...you would have been sleeping...so "time = money" does not apply this is an argument about convenience...no matter how you crunch the numbers, transit is cheaper than owning a car in most cases.

You seem to devalue free time considerably. Now let me ask you what would happen if you got $100 an hour but were forced to work 24 hours a day with out rest or sleep. Would any of your free time be worthless? As in you wouldnt give anything for an hour of rest or sleep or just wathicng TV? Of course each person values their free time differently, but the argument still stands.

then the correct answer is "my time is valuable"...not time = money.

I agree with you though...if my free time was only worth what I get paid (and I'm hardly complaining about my pay structure), then I'd be working 12-14 hour days all the time (and that's not going to happen!)

it's really annoying when people say "I get paid (x) per hour, and you've wasted an hour of my time!". well...if you took upaid time off work to do whatever you're doing, then it's a legitimate comment...otherwise, it's kind of stupid.

But travelling to work can be considered work since you wouldnt be travelling otherwise. Therefore any extra time it takes to use transit as opposed to the most time efficient way (car) is considered wasting time and money.

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Originally posted by MarkT then the correct answer is "my time is valuable"...not time = money. I agree with you though...if my free time was only worth what I get paid (and I'm hardly complaining about my pay structure), then I'd be working 12-14 hour days all the time (and that's not going to happen!) it's really annoying when people say "I get paid (x) per hour, and you've wasted an hour of my time!". well...if you took upaid time off work to do whatever you're doing, then it's a legitimate comment...otherwise, it's kind of stupid.

well you got most of it right... but if i gotta be anal then ill point out that technically time = money argument is valid altho vague

LOL...fine!

I think what MarkT was trying to say was that people cannont work unlimited hours, ie they work a set amount of hours per day/week. If the number of hours is fixed, then they amount of pay is fixed as well. Therefore, if pay is constant, the cheaper mode of transportation (TTC) would be the optimal mode of transportation for such a worker because the worker would gain nothing from arriving early to work (can't work more hours) and the worker would benefit from the lower overall cost of public transportation.

So to recap, time does not = money for such a worker because he cannot gain added benefit from work time above the standard quota.

I like to say, time = happiness

quote:

Originally posted by AwakenedAddict I think what MarkT was trying to say was that people cannont work unlimited hours, ie they work a set amount of hours per day/week. If the number of hours is fixed, then they amount of pay is fixed as well. Therefore, if pay is constant, the cheaper mode of transportation (TTC) would be the optimal mode of transportation for such a worker because the worker would gain nothing from arriving early to work (can't work more hours) and the worker would benefit from the lower overall cost of public transportation. So to recap, time does not = money for such a worker because he cannot gain added benefit from work time above the standard quota.

one question: hypothetically, if you could work 24/7, would you?

i dont expect socialist to understand time = money anyways

OK, I understand that a value can be placed on time... i've taken Economics 100. WOW

All I was saying is that in the particular case of a person with a FIXED amount of work hours, he gains no benefit from arriving to work early and hence (to actually talk about the thread topic) the TTC is a better option than a car for this person.

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Originally posted by AwakenedAddict OK, I understand that a value can be placed on time... i've taken Economics 100. WOW All I was saying is that in the particular case of a person with a FIXED amount of work hours, he gains no benefit from arriving to work early and hence (to actually talk about the thread topic) the TTC is a better option than a car for this person.

you are still looking at it from the perspective that the only value in life can be summarised by money...

as in the above example... you wouldnt arrive to work early, you would arrive on time but you would leave later because it doesnt take as long to get to work and thus, say sleeps an extra 30 mins... which in my books is worth a lot more than $0

ha ha! i don't care... as long as they take out all those streetcars downtown out of service somehow, that's just fine with me... goddamn slowing down everything.

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Originally posted by Crazy Serb ha ha! i don't care... as long as they take out all those streetcars downtown out of service somehow, that's just fine with me... goddamn slowing down everything.

Agreed... streetcars are inefficient unless they have their own seperate tracks that dont interfere with traffic like in Amsterdam.

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Originally posted by timmyboy you are still looking at it from the perspective that the only value in life can be summarised by money...

Actually, I'm not.. plz see my time = happiness post in this thread. In fact, I challenge you to find a post of mine where i said that time=money.

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Originally posted by timmyboy as in the above example... you wouldnt arrive to work early, you would arrive on time but you would leave later because it doesnt take as long to get to work and thus, say sleeps an extra 30 mins... which in my books is worth a lot more than $0

You are blind, seriously. Yes, you gain the "happiness" (whatever measure of utility you want to use) of 30 minutes of extra sleep, but you still have to balance that cost with the cost of owning an automobile (i'm assuming that's the mode of transportation you are figuring).

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Originally posted by AwakenedAddict Actually, I'm not.. plz see my time = happiness post in this thread. In fact, I challenge you to find a post of mine where i said that time=money. You are blind, seriously. Yes, you gain the "happiness" (whatever measure of utility you want to use) of 30 minutes of extra sleep, but you still have to balance that cost with the cost of owning an automobile (i'm assuming that's the mode of transportation you are figuring).

ok i can see time = happiness, now would you trade happiness for money?
like i dont know how else to explain it. its an economics concept its not meant to be understood literally, altho it is very useful applying it in your daily life.

but dude, if you think time = money is bad, wait till you find out that life = money too

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