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Several key points:

1. You didn't cite it as a possibility. You gave two distinct outcomes:

A) I somehow have missed all the "good" vocal trance you bang on about (which I haven't)
B) I must have bad taste for holding a different opinion to you on those tracks.

2. You don't even know what "ambient" means, as you've demonstrated repeatedly in the past.

3. I could roll out my "lyrics don't affect musical quality" argument, which has never been disproven, but it'd be wasted on you. So I'll just highlight that the "lyrics" in vocal trance are stock garbage going on about sunrises and missing loved ones. If you can give a genuine example of original trance lyrics that are more than a collection of mediocre poetic adjectives around a clich�d theme I'll concede a point.

4. As for the musical composition of vocal trance, I'd love to hear you defend it. Trance began to wash out just as vocals entered the equation, and if you take the vocals out of vocal trance what you're left with is by and large, terrible.

Oh, and the remark about genres was a rhetorical question.

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1. You didn't cite it as a possibility. You gave two distinct outcomes: A) I somehow have missed all the "good" vocal trance you bang on about (which I haven't) B) I must have bad taste for holding a different opinion to you on those tracks.

Well if the shoe fits wear it, right? Obviously you didn't hestitate to accuse me of precisely the thing that you took offense to. I couldn't have violated anything new.

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2. You don't even know what "ambient" means, as you've demonstrated repeatedly in the past.

ROFL, don't spout this baloney. I know perfectly what ambient means and you've established quite clearly that you are prejudiced more than you are logical. Don't presume to tell me that I'm unfamiliar with practically my favorite genre of music.

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3. I could roll out my "lyrics don't affect musical quality" argument, which has never been disproven, but it'd be wasted on you. So I'll just highlight that the "lyrics" in vocal trance are stock garbage going on about sunrises and missing loved ones. If you can give a genuine example of original trance lyrics that are more than a collection of mediocre poetic adjectives around a clich餟theme I'll concede a point. 4. As for the musical composition of vocal trance, I'd love to hear you defend it. Trance began to wash out just as vocals entered the equation, and if you take the vocals out of vocal trance what you're left with is by and large, terrible.

You know, I quite frankly don't care a lick whether or not you like vocal trance. I could argue just as well that all the synths in your non-vocal tracks are cliched and overdone, it's all a matter of perception. Vocal trance isn't intended to have highly intellectual lyrics, it's meant to put you in a trance with the melody, the synths pulling you in and the driving beat, lyrics are secondary. Singing about the sunrise is fine by me.

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Oh, and the remark about genres was a rhetorical question.

Just try to avoid further embarrassment.

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Originally posted by Hydarnes Well if the shoe fits wear it, right? Obviously you didn't hestitate to accuse me of precisely the thing that you took offense to. I couldn't have violated anything new.

Well if you were going to insult me I think I have every right to return the favour.

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ROFL, don't spout this baloney. I know perfectly what ambient means and you've established quite clearly that you are prejudiced more than you are logical. Don't presume to tell me that I'm unfamiliar with practically my favorite genre of music.

List your favourite ambient tracks/albums/whatever then.

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Vocal trance isn't intended to have highly intellectual lyrics, it's meant to put you in a trance with the melody, the synths pulling you in and the driving beat, lyrics are secondary. Singing about the sunrise is fine by me.

"Pop and Rock have immeasurably surpassed trance in tacky lyrics that sing about the same love theme over and over. Not even junkie vocal trance could hope to have the "laughinstock" crown."

So you admit that was a load of bullshit?

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Just try to avoid further embarrassment.

Hell, I'm not the one answering rhetoric. My sarcastic comment which you took seriously was in reply to this gem:

"I'd listen to trance-cheese any day over american mainstream filth."

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Well if you were going to insult me I think I have every right to return the favour.

ROFL! The point is that you made a hypocritical insult while I hadn't even made a firm appropriation concerning your musical taste.

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List your favourite ambient tracks/albums/whatever then.

So what is this? I'm on trial before the great arbiter of ambient music . Here's a few that I like :

Enya (all of her music)
Chicane - Saltwater (Thrillseekers Remix)
Solar Stone - Seven Cities (Ambient Mix)
Blank & Jones' Ambient works: Beyond Time, Desire, etc.
Accadia - Into the Dawn (ambient mix)
Airwave - Blue Lady (ambient mix)

...Too many to name...

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"Pop and Rock have immeasurably surpassed trance in tacky lyrics that sing about the same love theme over and over. Not even junkie vocal trance could hope to have the "laughinstock" crown." So you admit that was a load of bullshit?

Well I suppose I could, but I'd have to be the biggest idiot on earth to not recognize the fact.

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Hell, I'm not the one answering rhetoric. My sarcastic comment which you took seriously was in reply to this gem: "I'd listen to trance-cheese any day over american mainstream filth."

Please elucidate yourself. You seem to be hiding under a muddled position. Define exactly what you meant by:

"Oh, and the remark about genres was a rhetorical question."

And be less nebulous please

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Originally posted by Hydarnes So what is this? I'm on trial before the great arbiter of ambient music . Here's a few that I like : Enya (all of her music) Chicane - Saltwater (Thrillseekers Remix) Solar Stone - Seven Cities (Ambient Mix) Blank & Jones' Ambient works: Beyond Time, Desire, etc. Accadia - Into the Dawn (ambient mix) Airwave - Blue Lady ...Too many to name...

None of the above is ambient.

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Originally posted by starglider None of the above is ambient.

ROFL...go take a hike

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Originally posted by Hydarnes ROFL...go take a hike

Don't believe it? Or don't like being wrong?

Enya is the closest thing you posted to ambient, and only because she's released a fairly wide variety of music. She is much closer to new age than ambient.

The rest you posted are all your standard "chillout" mixes of trance tunes. Removing the kick drum from a trance tune does not suddenly turn it into ambient. I am not sure what the latest accepted definition of this type of music is; I have heard it called chillout, however. ************, it is most certainly not ambient. Examples of ambient (and some artists I like):

Brian Eno
Pete Namlook
Harold Budd
Biosphere
Steve Roach
Jonn Serrie

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Originally posted by Hydarnes ROFL...go take a hike

Why, when he is right?

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Originally posted by starglider Don't believe it? Or don't like being wrong? Enya is the closest thing you posted to ambient, and only because she's released a fairly wide variety of music. She is much closer to new age than ambient. The rest you posted are all your standard "chillout" mixes of trance tunes. Removing the kick drum from a trance tune does not suddenly turn it into ambient. I am not sure what the latest accepted definition of this type of music is; I have heard it called chillout, however. ************, it is most certainly not ambient. Examples of ambient (and some artists I like): Brian Eno Pete Namlook Harold Budd Biosphere Steve Roach Jonn Serrie

I'm quite aware that enya is New Age, yet she is also ambient.

The reason why I posted the ambient trance songs is because this is a trance board and we were primarily discussing (at least, in my mind) ambient trance.

Haha, B&J ambient. Right. You'll never be a hardcore music fan with that awful taste, Hydarnes. You're a hippie.

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Originally posted by Hydarnes I'm quite aware that enya is New Age, yet she is also ambient. The reason why I posted the ambient trance songs is because this is a trance board and we were primarily discussing (at least, in my mind) ambient trance.

I'll give you Enya because I suppose if you probed her catalogue you could find at least one production that might qualify as ambient. I am not sure of this, though.

As for the so-called "ambient trance" songs: regardless of whether the above qualify as ambient trance (I am not a genre purist), your mistake is assuming ambient trance is a subgenre of ambient. It is not. It is a subgenre of trance. Trance is not ambient. Period.

Curiosity gets the better of me. Have you heard anything from any of the half dozen artists I mentioned? If not, I would most certainly recommend them, if not to educate yourself then simply because they produce quite pleasant music.

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Originally posted by Hydarnes The reason why I posted the ambient trance songs is because this is a trance board and we were primarily discussing (at least, in my mind) ambient trance.

Oh, really? So trance has to be ambient now. I guess we can just forget about hypnotic, arpeggiating acid trance now, then. The way it was supposed to be.

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Originally posted by auranaut Oh, really? So trance has to be ambient now. I guess we can just forget about hypnotic, arpeggiating acid trance now, then. The way it was supposed to be.

I don't believe he was implying that all trance is ambient. He merely assumed that the accepted definition of ambient included the "ambient" mixes of trance tunes.

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Originally posted by Hydarnes I'm quite aware that enya is New Age, yet she is also ambient. The reason why I posted the ambient trance songs is because this is a trance board and we were primarily discussing (at least, in my mind) ambient trance.

You claim you're a big fan of the ambient genre, and then say you're (in your mind) primarly discussing ambient trance? Ambient trance doesn't fall under the ambient genre (just like the tracks you named erlier this thread), it fall undir the trance genre.

Ambient 1: Music for Airports by Brian Eno is ambient.
In Moll by Markus Guentner is ambient.
76:14 by Global Communication is ambient.
The Thrillseekers mix of Chicane's Saltwater is NOT ambient (doesn't even come close)!

I think everyone here has adequately spoken my thoughts. While we're on subject though, some ambient I like:

The KLF- Chill Out
FSOL- Lifeforms
Anything by The Orb
Orbital's ambient stuff.

what would TA be without lowlifes which thinks Tiesto is God and trance is ambient

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Originally posted by RebeL9 what would TA be without lowlifes which thinks Tiesto is God and trance is ambient

And since we're talking about ambient TRANCE, I think Sunbeam fits the description quite well, though I'm not the biggest fan of his work. Waddy'all think?

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Originally posted by auranaut Oh, really? So trance has to be ambient now. I guess we can just forget about hypnotic, arpeggiating acid trance now, then. The way it was supposed to be.

The only person that said trance has to be ambient is the straw man that you invented called "Hydarnes". I merely gave a list of ambient trance because system j was apparrently challenging me to give him some names of AMBIENT TRANCE, unless I misunderstood.

It might be a good idea to understand the other person before rushing to an a priori conclusion.

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Originally posted by auranaut And since we're talking about ambient TRANCE, I think Sunbeam fits the description quite well, though I'm not the biggest fan of his work. Waddy'all think?

Sunbeam? the german dudes which made Outside World?
I was a big fan of them back in the days. Never heard them do any downtempo

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Originally posted by RebeL9 Sunbeam? the german dudes which made Outside World? I was a big fan of them back in the days. Never heard them do any downtempo

It doesn't have to be downtempo to be ambient though. From what I've heard, their sound is very floaty and enveloping, but with a regular beat. Oh well, maybe I'm wrong.

hehe you are completely wrong. you must have mistaken them for someone else.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another vocalist

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J My tastes aren't perfect

lol, that is the single most condensed piece of cringeworthy bullshit i've ever read on the whole of TA, and damn that's saying something. pray explain how one can achieve the 'perfect taste'?

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Originally posted by RebeL9 hehe you are completely wrong. you must have mistaken them for someone else.

Okay okay, so is Paul van Dyk - Today (Trance Ambient Mix) ambient trance then?

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Originally posted by auranaut Okay okay, so is Paul van Dyk - Today (Trance Ambient Mix) ambient trance then?

its the same as asking is Seven Cities (Ambient dub) ambient?

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