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-- Should the guy pay for the date?
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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Fair enough but do not be surprised when some take offence to what you say.

well if they do its their problem not mine

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 well if they do its their problem not mine

Jo Momma pays for our dates...

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Actually, I do not believe in morality therefore I see no wrong in homosexuality, thus no bigotry. BTW, did you actually find Jay's response to bigotred? I could see the remark as dismissive, disapproving, offensive (I personally was not offended but I could see how one could be), but I fail to see hatred in it. That being said, I'm no a gay man and I suppose I would be less in tune to such a thing.

that is why I had "moral" in quotes - your response laid waste to any preconcieved notions I might have had about your Sig/TA name.....no offense taken......MORAL HAZARD is quite clever......

Jay's response was typical of the type of response when posed such question - dismissive is maybe more accurate - Bigoted would imply that any other beliefs but his are wrong in his view.....again I do not know him well enough so - as said benefit of the doubt would have to come onto effect.

But in my shoes - the remark was slightly offensive - but people have their own shit to deal with - I've got mine.......

quote:

Originally posted by naesean3 that is why I had "moral" in quotes - your response laid waste to any preconcieved notions I might have had about your Sig/TA name.....no offense taken......MORAL HAZARD is quite clever...... Jay's response was typical of the type of response when posed such question - dismissive is maybe more accurate - Bigoted would imply that any other beliefs but his are wrong in his view.....again I do not know him well enough so - as said benefit of the doubt would have to come onto effect. But in my shoes - the remark was slightly offensive - but people have their own shit to deal with - I've got mine.......

Thanks for the response.

I totally missed the signifigance of the "s. I wish I could take credit for the name but it's an insurance industry term.... a person who's questionable morality, history, or lifestyle makes them a greater risk then the average individual is considered to be a MORAL HAZARD. Due to my total lack of morals and my questionable lifestyle I kind of fit the description.

I don't have a problem in paying for gfs (not always), heck I even pay for my mates sometimes. it's a different mater for dates though
I'd pay for first date, but not more

luckly, I don't stay in the dating stage for long. I attack fast (if I like her)

quote:

Originally posted by house_conXion On a side note, I think alot of guys offer to pay on the first date cuz their trying to impress their date and hopefully get alittle something something for their trouble.

After 6 years of dating and a few months of engagement, my sweetie still doesn't disappoint!!! LOL!!! j/k...I almost always pay because I'm employed full-time but when we were BOTH students, she always tried to pay half the time...she was the first relationship I had that did this so I knew there was something special...and even now that I cover pretty much 90% (except for special occasions like Valentine's or Birthdays), she still thanks me "generously" hahahaha no just a simple thank you is enough...I love her for not taking me for granted!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 i make no apologies for what i said. People can interpret it any way they wish but i know how i feel inside and people who have read my posts should also understand where i come from. Im not going to get caught up in the semantics game that people seem to like to play so much. It reminds me of when chretien said that welfare recipients should not use the money to buy beer and smokes and got slammed for it. he was being honest. But people dont want honesty.

"semantics" game - you enjoy the challenge JAYX1 you know you do

that is so not my impression of you from these forums - "Im not going to get caught up in the semantics game that people seem to like to play" quite opposite correct me if I am wrong -I can handle the truth

Many people are stating that the current Prime Minister should step down.....how long does your term last for.......is their a vote on that.........sorry now I digress........ JOKES!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Thanks for the response. I totally missed the signifigance of the "s. I wish I could take credit for the name but it's an insurance industry term.... a person who's questionable morality, history, or lifestyle makes them a greater risk then the average individual is considered to be a MORAL HAZARD. Due to my total lack of morals and my questionable lifestyle I kind of fit the description.

makes it that much more clever!!! Love it!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 well if they do its their problem not mine

actually it kinda is your problem - that type of response is indicitive of the lack of respect some people is society face day to day - most times unspoken and powerfully debilatating - if you are not part of the solution - you are part of the problem.....that statement is very shallow and selfish..........I love how people get all in a huff over race issues - racism....yet still continue to use sexuality and what line you stand on/team you play for as a weapon of oppression and hatred........fucked up!!!

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree After 6 years of dating and a few months of engagement, my sweetie still doesn't disappoint!!! LOL!!! j/k...I almost always pay because I'm employed full-time but when we were BOTH students, she always tried to pay half the time...she was the first relationship I had that did this so I knew there was something special...and even now that I cover pretty much 90% (except for special occasions like Valentine's or Birthdays), she still thanks me "generously" hahahaha no just a simple thank you is enough...I love her for not taking me for granted!!!

that's excellent dude - which is proof positive to why on so many levels you are happy with your choice in partner!!! WIckiD!!!

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Originally posted by naesean3 I love how people get all in a huff over race issues - racism....yet still continue to use sexuality and what line you stand on/team you play for as a weapon of oppression and hatred........fucked up!!!

There is no story in the old testimate about God destroying a city because the inhabitants were of a different race. Remember nearly all of the hatred or prejudice (as some like Jay don't hate but certainly don't approve) is based on religion OR based on tradition which is born out of religion. One thing that really gets me is how people have misinterpreted this story in particular.... of course I refer to the story of Soddom... Most people think that God rained fire down on the city because it was full of homosexuals. What these people miss is the very important point that some of the people of Soddom attempted to rape God's messenger to the people.... maybe he destroyed Soddom because it was full of rapists... maybe we should hate them not gays.... or maybe I missed the point.

Wow Sean...I was just reading through the 2nd page (40 posts view) and I was shocked to see where that went!!!! Damn, you asked an innocent question, totally jokingly but then get a (sorry Jayx1, love ya but) smug answer...

Although I have to say there is always a possibility of misunderstanding on the Internet because you're not face to face and you may not see the look of slight shock that a careless joke that someone made (by the smugness) was really not meant to hurt anyone...that's a big problem with the forum...

...I stated in a thread a long time ago, I think it was one of starsearcher's threads that it's so hard to know what people's intentions are and that can cause the very debilitating situations that you're talking about...it SUX...

...I also hardly know Jayx1 but over the past couple of months of reading his posts, I can see he doesn't have harmful intentions...so I would go so far as (still haven't met so you never know intentions, but I'm a naive fuck) saying that I'd vouch for the more positive image of Jayx1...and I'm sure (although he won't apologize for what he said) I know he has a conscience and I strongly believe that he at least regrets that it could hurt someone...which doesn't change his personal views about homosexuality (which apply only to himself)...

I think there was a bit of misunderstanding on both parts, and in the end you two are very much in agreement about the subject of this thread...

(sorry if I'm crossing the line here, Jayx1, and don't know if what I said makes sense to you Sean)

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard There is no story in the old testimate about God destroying a city because the inhabitants were of a different race. Remember nearly all of the hatred or prejudice (as some like Jay don't hate but certainly don't approve) is based on religion OR based on tradition which is born out of religion. One thing that really gets me is how people have misinterpreted this story in particular.... of course I refer to the story of Soddom... Most people think that God rained fire down on the city because it was full of homosexuals. What these people miss is the very important point that some of the people of Soddom attempted to rape God's messenger to the people.... maybe he destroyed Soddom because it was full of rapists... maybe we should hate them not gays.... or maybe I missed the point.

yep missed the point - sorry Moral Hazard - I was attempting to state how people get upset over the racial issues that plague our society - the flippant use of "******, chink, spic, cracker etc....." and the obvious hatred lurking behind such comments - most people are in agreement "theoretically" and "justifiably" that this is wrong and politically incorrect language to use while addressing someone of a different creed/culture and at the same time saying "******, queer, dyke, fudgepacker...etc" is "not quite the same" for some reason....seriously I knew someone - who was black and was complaining about how people harassed/name called over his skin colour and within five minutes made a derogatory commment against gays and lesbians.......WTF!!!!!! I was like buddy - you are both in the same boat what a thing to say?? (in this predominant - white skewed society of North America culture and psyche) I would have expected a much more tempered intelligent approach...I thought it was terribly trashy and ignorant to say the least.......how can one slander be above another.....they are both stemming from hatred against fears that the slanderer cannot deal with because of their own insecurities......mind boggling!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by naesean3 yep missed the point - sorry Moral Hazard - I was attempting to state how people get upset over the racial issues that plague our society - the flippant use of "******, chink, spic, cracker etc....." and the obvious hatred lurking behind such comments - most people are in agreement "theoretically" and "justifiably" that this is wrong and politically incorrect language to use while addressing someone of a different creed/culture and at the same time saying "******, queer, dyke, fudgepacker...etc" is "not quite the same" for some reason....seriously I knew someone - who was black and was complaining about how people harassed/name called over his skin colour and within five minutes made a derogatory commment against gays and lesbians.......WTF!!!!!! I was like buddy - you are both in the same boat what a thing to say?? (in this predominant - white skewed society of North America culture and psyche) I would have expected a much more tempered intelligent approach...I thought it was terribly trashy and ignorant to say the least.......how can one slander be above another.....they are both stemming from hatred against fears that the slanderer cannot deal with because of their own insecurities......mind boggling!!!!!

Actually, I was referring to the story of Soddom and being sarcastic at that.

I agree with you that there should be no difference in how we view any type of prejudice that is based on preconceived notions of a segment of society. This would include race, sexual orientation, gender, economic standing, hair colour, or anything else. My post was mearly an attempt to explain why many people do see a difference between the two. People rely on a limited understanding about something and then use that as justification for why they should hate. In the case of hating homosexuals it is largely the old testament that is used as justification.

The good news is that much as racism has become unacceptable and is decreasing in both it's frequency and severity so too will prejudice against homosexuals. I think that this in inevitable. Unfortunately, this is not a quick process by any means.

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree Wow Sean...I was just reading through the 2nd page (40 posts view) and I was shocked to see where that went!!!! Damn, you asked an innocent question, totally jokingly but then get a (sorry Jayx1, love ya but) smug answer... Although I have to say there is always a possibility of misunderstanding on the Internet because you're not face to face and you may not see the look of slight shock that a careless joke that someone made (by the smugness) was really not meant to hurt anyone...that's a big problem with the forum... ...I stated in a thread a long time ago, I think it was one of starsearcher's threads that it's so hard to know what people's intentions are and that can cause the very debilitating situations that you're talking about...it SUX... ...I also hardly know Jayx1 but over the past couple of months of reading his posts, I can see he doesn't have harmful intentions...so I would go so far as (still haven't met so you never know intentions, but I'm a naive fuck) saying that I'd vouch for the more positive image of Jayx1...and I'm sure (although he won't apologize for what he said) I know he has a conscience and I strongly believe that he at least regrets that it could hurt someone...which doesn't change his personal views about homosexuality (which apply only to himself)... I think there was a bit of misunderstanding on both parts, and in the end you two are very much in agreement about the subject of this thread... (sorry if I'm crossing the line here, Jayx1, and don't know if what I said makes sense to you Sean)

no problem dude I have noticed a few comments over the last few months on these forums that made the hair stand up on the back of my neck......anyone beyond the WASP socio-stereotype recognizes a potential slanderous/mocking/bigoted comment even it is 10% there......I honestly was just joking when I made the comment - even used the term "who should pay if the 2 guys are gay" so it would ryhme.........but his comment did smack of a certain smugness - maybe that is my own interpretation - that could be totally so - but when pressed - he started making excuses - apologies/or not apologize for his reaction - that I do not have a problem with - everyone has a right to their opinion - as do I - I just questioned why the response he made after was not the first response.......there within lies something that I can't quite put my finger on as of intent and purpose of his first statement........

I pride myself on being what most of my friends say as a "straight gay" - a guy who respects others "lifestyle" choices and do not try to impose my HOTNESS upon them........LOL!!

Nor that I am ashamed of who I am now (for a while - I unfortunately was ) it is much easier to let my personality dictate who I am - my "lifestyle" choice should always be secondary and in all honesty not even that really a basis for judgement.......more like that "guy is a cool guy - I wonder if he likes TRANCE!!!! LOL!!

That I have no problem people wondering about me!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Actually, I was referring to the story of Soddom and being sarcastic at that. I agree with you that there should be no difference in how we view any type of prejudice that is based on preconceived notions of a segment of society. This would include race, sexual orientation, gender, economic standing, hair colour, or anything else. My post was mearly an attempt to explain why many people do see a difference between the two. People rely on a limited understanding about something and then use that as justification for why they should hate. In the case of hating homosexuals it is largely the old testament that is used as justification. The good news is that much as racism has become unacceptable and is decreasing in both it's frequency and severity so too will prejudice against homosexuals. I think that this in inevitable. Unfortunately, this is not a quick process by any means.

quick process - definitely not - being an alter boy and catholic school-reared I now far to well the supposed "evils" of homosexuality (and who knows in the end - it may very well be true).......this conditioning was a main reason why it took me years to finally really accept who I am........

this religious go forth and procreate/we must give birth as to increase our numbers diatribe......may have held more truth when you have a few million or so people around 2000 years ago........now we have expanded/procreated/extended life to the point of ridiculousness.....this same sentiment/reasoning cannot hold as much power.....sometimes I entertain myself with believing maybe I am doing the world a favour by not creating life........religion has a major problem with one using their sexuality for ones own purpose - not everyone has to be mini-gods - creating likenesses in their own images....???

who knows.........

quote:

Originally posted by naesean3 actually it kinda is your problem - that type of response is indicitive of the lack of respect some people is society face day to day - most times unspoken and powerfully debilatating - if you are not part of the solution - you are part of the problem.....that statement is very shallow and selfish..........I love how people get all in a huff over race issues - racism....yet still continue to use sexuality and what line you stand on/team you play for as a weapon of oppression and hatred........fucked up!!!

if people become oversensitive over a completely benign statement and read into what is not even there then i can't help it and it's not my problem.

I don't have time to deal with everyone's sensitivity issues and im not going to apologize for something someone thought i may have said or implied if i didnt say it.

With the reaction around here to what i said you'd think my name was ernst zundel or something... Sheesh!

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard (as some like Jay don't hate but certainly don't approve)

Excuse me? Now i "dont approve"

Where the hell do you get off making that kind of statement?

For the last time. ITS NOT MY LIFESTYLE AND I DONT APPROVE OF IT FOR ME..

But everyone else can do whatever the hell they want. It doesnt bother me and i dont care if i see it. Im very liberal. Its pretty sad when you cant be obvious about your own personal choice without being crucified....

oh better watch my terminology on that one too because now maybe the religious people will get upset

quote:

Originally posted by naesean3 - but when pressed - he started making excuses - apologies/or not apologize for his reaction -

i make no excuses for my beliefs. im just trying to get you to understand that you are being oversensitive and reading too much into an otherwise benign comment.

I perosnally dont care who pays for the date when it's a gay situation just the same as i dont care what the price of eggs are in india. Because neither situation applies to me. Thats that!

Im just tired of people trying to make issues out of nothing. Seriously lighten up!

personaly i belive in equality so girl and boy pay... but with me i would like it for the guy to first Offer that he wants to pay and then allow me to pay for half of it


but once or twice i would like it that the guy pay.... and then few times i pay so ya know equal out... but i rather have the guy do it first and then second date or wotever i pay for him....

so on a completly on topic note i just talked to my dad on the phone from sweden, and he said even in his generation, the guy is NOT excpected to pay for the dates! And if he does, it is excpected that the girl will pay back!

Canadian women, wake up!!!

quote:

Originally posted by naesean3 this religious go forth and procreate/we must give birth as to increase our numbers diatribe......may have held more truth when you have a few million or so people around 2000 years ago........now we have expanded/procreated/extended life to the point of ridiculousness.....this same sentiment/reasoning cannot hold as much power.....sometimes I entertain myself with believing maybe I am doing the world a favour by not creating life........

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew so on a completly on topic note i just talked to my dad on the phone from sweden, and he said even in his generation, the guy is NOT excpected to pay for the dates! And if he does, it is excpected that the girl will pay back! Canadian women, wake up!!!

No more like CANADIAN MEN should wake up...

We live in a society of whipped losers

quote:

Originally posted by Spyder personaly i belive in equality so girl and boy pay... but with me i would like it for the guy to first Offer that he wants to pay and then allow me to pay for half of it but once or twice i would like it that the guy pay.... and then few times i pay so ya know equal out... but i rather have the guy do it first and then second date or wotever i pay for him....

a healthy relationship means that money isnt even an issue and if it is you are able to be frank and honest by discussing it and coming to a conclusion. Sounds simple and reasonable right? Not with most women ive known thats for sure...

But you do find the odd gems out there who appreciate men for more than "what he can give me"

I can only remember one first date where I let the guy pay for everything without offering my share, and thats only because he was a total ass.. Guys like that get whats coming to them

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