TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- US should mind their own business
Pages (7): « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 »

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z No it doesn't. There are certain values and morals which are universal and have been understood for ages, like don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal, don't murder etc. It was pretty obvious what they did was wrong to any outside observer. It doesn't matter what fucking period in history it was.

Its not like it was only the Europeans. Look at the Indians, they decimated entire colonies of poor, starving, and confused Europeans.

Neither the Indians nor the Europeans fought according to the laws of war, the only difference is the Indians didn't have good firepower, education, and technology.

Regardless most Indians were decimated by disease, not Europeans. And Indians despite being out-educated and with poor technology were still able to make some great stands.

It wasn't so clear cut, there were tons of different Indian nations, many Indians used the Europeans against other Indians for their own selfish reasons (just as the Europeans used Indians against each other for their own selfish reasons). There are only a couple of cases where a strong Indian leader was able to ally several tribes into a united front against the Europeans.

Also, when Indians were massacared at that time, it was not an accepted by the general populace either. Some were even brought to trial against such crimes.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley American food is shit with the exception of Cajun/Creole food...and even that is French and African!!

Right

You as a Brit have the least amount of right to critize food!

Would you like some bland to go with your meal?

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Right You as a Brit have the least amount of right to critize food! Would you like some bland to go with your meal?

I'll have you know I am an excellent chef, and amongst my speciallities are Falafel and honey-mustard baked chicken so even you should appreciate them!

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Right You as a Brit have the least amount of right to critize food! Would you like some bland to go with your meal?

Hey.. at least they dont steal arab cultured foods like humus and falafel and call it "israeli" food.

hmm.. stealing seems to be a central theme with israel.. i wonder what else theyve stolen

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Hey.. at least they dont steal arab cultured foods like humus and falafel and call it "israeli" food. hmm.. stealing seems to be a central theme with israel.. i wonder what else theyve stolen

Cyrus, old pal. Welcome back! I thought you were killed off in a jihad.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Hey.. at least they dont steal arab cultured foods like humus and falafel and call it "israeli" food. hmm.. stealing seems to be a central theme with israel.. i wonder what else theyve stolen

I'm sorry, did you just completely ignore Georegy's post above

I mean *snap*

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z No it doesn't. There are certain values and morals which are universal and have been understood for ages, like don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal, don't murder etc. It was pretty obvious what they did was wrong to any outside observer. It doesn't matter what fucking period in history it was.

While this is understood by everyone (one would hope) it was the reality of the time; like it or not.
Please understand, I'm not saying I liked it, who the hell would??
Spitting venom at the past is like pissing in the wind; the point is, was anything learned so that it's not repeated?

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r While this is understood by everyone (one would hope) it was the reality of the time; like it or not. Please understand, I'm not saying I liked it, who the hell would?? Spitting venom at the past is like pissing in the wind; the point is, was anything learned so that it's not repeated?

I actually pissed in the wind once (not for any scientific experiment or anything, I just wasn't concentrating!) and the theory is true - dont piss in the wind!

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley I actually pissed in the wind once (not for any scientific experiment or anything, I just wasn't concentrating!) and the theory is true - dont piss in the wind!

"I see," said the blind man pissing in the wind, "It all comes back to me!"

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka "I see," said the blind man pissing in the wind, "It all comes back to me!"

LMAO!!! HAHAHA!!

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Hey.. at least they dont steal arab cultured foods like humus and falafel and call it "israeli" food. hmm.. stealing seems to be a central theme with israel.. i wonder what else theyve stolen

Israel stealing?hard to believe

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Name a country that the U.S. has annexed due to it's "Imperialism". I'll give you a hint...it's real close to 0...

Not that I believe that we're really an imperialist force right now, but to be fair 0 is hardly an accurate answer if you're looking at history:

American Samoa
Canal Zone
Guam
Northern Mariana Islands
Puerto Rico
U.S. Virgin Islands
Texas
Hawaii

Today we're not involved in full out imperialism, but you have to admit that we often help countries when it also aids our strategic interests. A lot of countires on the list of countries looking for help fit that description: Iraq, Colombia, Israel, the Balkan nations to name a few. Darfur & Congo are still looking for help, but they don't seem to qualify.

As for Native Americans, certainly gotta love the casinos, but Native Americans on the whole, particularly those on reservations are not really doing that well, considering they have a huge rate of poverty, suicide & alcoholism to name a few.
Here's a link to a few problems affecting their youth. If you look at incidents like the Trail of Tears, they hardly decided to settle on those reservations even after their land was taken.

Also just a note: Native Americans were actually first used for slavery in the colonies and Latin America until Bishop Bartoleme de las Casas suggested that Africans might better withstand the conditions. The issues of tribes siding against other tribes is very complicated and has many parallels to the reasons why African tribes did the same with selling others to slavetraders, so there are lots of reasons why tribes acted brutally against each other.

Now I really have the urge to watch World Series of Poker after the mention of casinos. Gotta love Texas Hold'em!

Imperialism means controlling another country (or set of people) for your own gain...America is quite the imperial power

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine16 ...but you have to admit that we often help countries when it also aids our strategic interests.

Absolutely.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Imperialism means controlling another country (or set of people) for your own gain...America is quite the imperial power

Considering what America is itself, that's quite the oxymoron.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Considering what America is itself, that's quite the oxymoron.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus But seriously the Balkans? Out of all the list, the Balkans? Hey, guess whatever floats your boat.

Because I asked for a situation were the world had cried out for action, and of all the recent (i.e. non WW(1|2)) examples it was the only one fitting that description. Further it was a situation were the US was clearly acting in a benevolent manner.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Let me make clear by "this debate", you mean the definition of peoples?

Yep.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I dunno that it actually matters whether it is A or B or for that matter something else. I listed so many examples they do fall into more categories then just A and B.

I didn't mean to state that it made a difference to the examples themselves. It makes a difference as to which injustice (A or B) that they should support. To me it seems like they are only able to support A, except for South Korea. And there's quite a leap from "South Korea"
to "The World".

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus For instance what about people complain that the US is going to help them and then when the USA actually does they don't complain (much) like in Afghanistan? Iraq (Gulf War II) might also fit under the above category, lets call it C.

Which wouldn't be something you (upset US-patriots) would complain about. Hence, the lack of that category in my brief list.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I think mostly it falls into category A. But there are a wide array of categories.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus In cases like Korea and the Arab world is more similar to B. Egypt, Syria, and Jordan, basically cried out for US internvention in 1956, 1963, and 1973, yet complain about that same very intervention till this day.

As already stated I agree that South Korea would support B, but don't know if it's the same people in Arab governments that are complaining today, as were the ones that asked for help back in the days.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Really... I dunno where you're trying to go with this...

Hope that cleared up my message. To reiterate, I'm not trying to classify your list into two sets. I'm saying that if you want the list to be evidence of some injustice done to the US, then you need to be specific about whether that injustice is A or B. And if it's B, then the issue of what "people" means, becomes relevant.

Well in my opinion, i think the U.S should not mind thier own business for the simple fact that if they dont, then this world would be a mess.Now i can stay here and list a long list why U.S shouldnt and why U.S is the most powerfull country in the world.Alot of people around the world have this "haterage" or disrespect about the U.S. France is a great example. E.U was created by France because France didnt want the U.S to interfear with Europe and thier relations. I would like to see E.U be succsesful (it is but can it keep up). In my opion E.U will not be as dominant as the U.S because the fact is that Europeans dont get along with each other. There are too many conflicts going on in Europe. Even if you look in history all the big superpowers have been attacked in some way. Like the U.S is right now. Bottom line is that U.S should be the boss of this world because no one else cant. They should of gone to Iraq and are doing a great job. I cant stand it when people bullshit about the war and how many soldiers are dying. You cant be a pussy and still go to war and having to worry how many soldiers die. War is War. Pople die, the world moves forward.If France can be man enough to take the responsiblity of that, then amen you to France. But unfortunetly they cant.This is my thought on this issue.Be free to judge me or disagree with me but i stand with something and i never change my mind. And im sorry for any grammar or spelling typing.

quote:

Originally posted by neiil_yates Well in my opinion, i think the U.S should not mind thier own business for the simple fact that if they dont, then this world would be a mess.

The world is already a mess with or without U.S. help.

quote:

Bottom line is that U.S should be the boss of this world because no one else cant.

Did the whole world ask the U.S to be the boss of this world?and if as you say they are the boss,does it make it ok for them to go and invade other countries?

quote:

They should of gone to Iraq and are doing a great job.

How was invading Iraq a good thing?what was the real reason behind it? The so called WMD?or because they had ties with the terrorists? The region is more destabalized then ever thaks to your Americans heros.Also please tell us how are they doing a great job there when the people are dying daily and dont have basic needs or security to live a normal life.You cant shove democracy down people throats like the Americans are doing in Iraq.At least back in Saddam days people didnt have to worry about bombs blowing up or getting shot at check points by Americans.

quote:

I cant stand it when people bullshit about the war and how many soldiers are dying.

you cant stand it because you know it is the truth and this invasion was totally wrong and it is causing alot of human lives on both sides.

quote:

You cant be a pussy and still go to war and having to worry how many soldiers die.War is War.

yes war is war but this war was for a wrong cause and those soldiers are losing their lives for Mr.Bush.

quote:

Pople die, the world moves forward.

No not in this case.All those dead Iraqi Civillians didnt have to die and they whouldnt have if the Americans didnt invade them.

Well, i agree with you in the fact that U.S didnt go to Iraq just to make Iraq a democratic county. Its crazy to think that Iraq will be as democratic as U.S but at least they can have some kind of an idea of what freedom is like. With this "democraticzation" of Iraq then will open doors to other Arab nations. The Middle East is a messed up place my friend. You have all kinds of extremistic islamics that all they think about is Allah and want to do dammage to U.S and the Christian world. The main reason why U.S is there is because its a world of Terrorism and they want to keep the fighting in there instead of it in America. Its like you gather all the terrorist there so the war can be faught by the soldiers. Thats the idea of this whole thing. And you know its sad to think people are dying but the world moves forward, civilization goes on. Sometimes you just have to think for the longrun. And im sure 20-30 years from now Middle East and the Arab world would be much better. I mean Arabs are still where Christians were 700 years ago when church was the goverment. Look at Arabic nations now, thier goverment is based on the teachings of Quran. Do you think that your country would be better staying like that, well maybe not because thats why your in Canada.

well they didnt have to worry about the bombs but had to worry about freedom of speech or getting killed for no fucking reason, just because saddams ass felt it was the right thing.

and dont tell me its all Bush's fault because if any other president would of been in this spot, they would do the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by neiil_yates and dont tell me its all Bush's fault because if any other president would of been in this spot, they would do the same thing.

Afganistan - Yes (although they might have made it differently)
Iraq - NO

quote:

Originally posted by neiil_yates The main reason why U.S is there is because its a world of Terrorism and they want to keep the fighting in there instead of it in America. Its like you gather all the terrorist there so the war can be faught by the soldiers. Thats the idea of this whole thing. And you know its sad to think people are dying but the world moves forward, civilization goes on. Sometimes you just have to think for the longrun. And im sure 20-30 years from now Middle East and the Arab world would be much better. I mean Arabs are still where Christians were 700 years ago when church was the goverment. Look at Arabic nations now, thier goverment is based on the teachings of Quran. Do you think that your country would be better staying like that, well maybe not because thats why your in Canada.

A few points: Iraq wasn't connected with Al Qaeda or 9/11, so it really had little to do with fighting terrorism. Saudi Arabia is where most of the people involved came from. Also the reason the Middle East is structured the way it is has everything to do with colonialism, same as with most oppressive regimes in Africa and elsewhere. If anyone's checked out the "America" book by Jon Stewart, my favorite is the activity where the Middle East is outlined with no political boundaries filled in and you're supposed to make them up, paying no attention to historical boundaries, the different peoples or religious divisions. That's pretty much exactly what happened after WWI and why it's difficult to create democracy there. Iraq, for example, right now has a great deal of instability, largely because of the power struggle and differences of ideology between the Sunni, Shi'ite & Kurds.

quote:

Originally posted by neiil_yates Its crazy to think that Iraq will be as democratic as U.S but at least they can have some kind of an idea of what freedom is like.

How are they feeling free when their country is occupied and terrorisys from everywhere come and blow shit up daily?I just dont see how anyone would feel free with the current situation there

quote:

With this "democraticzation" of Iraq then will open doors to other Arab nations.

What if they choose not to be democraticized?is that a crime?what I come to yout country and force you democracy?would you accept it?
Dont forget that democracy nad freedom cannot be forced upon anyone.

quote:

The Middle East is a messed up place my friend. You have all kinds of extremistic islamics that all they think about is Allah and want to do dammage to U.S and the Christian world.

yes it is a messed up place and Americans being there isnt helping power because by them being there they are creating more hatred and more extremists. Extremism exists in all religions and thats no excuse to go invade countries.

quote:

The main reason why U.S is there is because its a world of Terrorism and they want to keep the fighting in there instead of it in America.

so lets destroy middle east for that matter so that America could be safe

quote:

Its like you gather all the terrorist there so the war can be faught by the soldiers. Thats the idea of this whole thing. And you know its sad to think people are dying but the world moves forward, civilization goes on.

Those civillians dont have to die in the first place,and you said gathering all terrorists???you think terrorism will end in Iraq?

quote:

Sometimes you just have to think for the longrun. And im sure 20-30 years from now Middle East and the Arab world would be much better.

and how do you know this?things are not going toward the right direction,and putting pupet regims wont help at all

quote:

Look at Arabic nations now, thier goverment is based on the teachings of Quran.

Isnt that the direction America is going?basing every law and decision based on religion? Bush mentions god more then anyone I know.Yet they go and criticize the muslims for running their country based on religion.

quote:

Originally posted by neiil_yates well they didnt have to worry about the bombs but had to worry about freedom of speech or getting killed for no fucking reason, just because saddams ass felt it was the right thing.

Yes we know Saddam was a bad leader and he gased his own people(thanks to the Americans for giving him the weapons)but still things were alot better then now,there was no terrorism and people at least had basic needs to live and the country had alot more stability then now.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.