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-- Reasons not to pay for music
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Originally posted by Mike_Foyle anyway im bored now. at the end of the day its illegal, so unless u really have to then dont do it. alot of people think that murder is justified in certain cases, but its illegal so people dont tend to do it. its not up to you guys to decide whether or not downloading copyright music is ok or not, so just accept it and get on with it.

murder and downloading are not the same thing. lets not go to extreams with the topic

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Originally posted by nchs09 murder and downloading are not the same thing. lets not go to extreams with the topic

thall shalt not stealith

thall shalt not killith

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Originally posted by nchs09 murder and downloading are not the same thing. lets not go to extreams with the topic

lol i know but the same principle applies. both are illegal, both are crimes. just makin a point

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Originally posted by Mike_Foyle u dont have to download illegally to find out if u like something, any decent online record store will have samples

Yea, and then when I spend 12 pounds on a record I find out that the tune is shit after all. Not to mention that they don't even carry half the stuff I'm looking for.

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Originally posted by Floorfiller benno...what do you think about this? i've argued on here before that record labels are becoming in a way obselete. i mean other than promotional value, they have no real significance. don't you think aritsts such as yourself could just as easily sell legal mp3 downloads from say an artist website than through a label? sure it might take a lot of initial start up, but once it was running it wouldn't be hard to update and maintain. then you could contract with sites such as beatport on your own if you wanted to allow people to download from those sites as well...so really why the need for the middle man anymore? you would get more of the profit that you deserve and people would feel more like they are supporting the artist and not just some corporation...

exactly

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Foyle lol i know but the same principle applies. both are illegal, both are crimes. just makin a point

durrr... slap!

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Originally posted by Sand Leaper Yea, and then when I spend 12 pounds on a record I find out that the tune is shit after all. Not to mention that they don't even carry half the stuff I'm looking for.

ok fair point. so everything u download u delete straight away after you have evaluated its quality?

fair enough really.

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Originally posted by Floorfiller i've argued on here before that record labels are becoming in a way obselete. i mean other than promotional value, they have no real significance. don't you think aritsts such as yourself could just as easily sell legal mp3 downloads from say an artist website than through a label?

Yes i could...
But for me there is a big BUT:

I need to make music thats what i like, that's what i want to do. I don't want to get involved in the selling business too much, it would eat my inspiration.

And don't forget: it's not simply realeasing!
There's a process of making a record know to public which i can't.
There's legal stuff which i don't have time for.
There's timing when and how to release a record.
It's not just releasing an mp3.
How are you updated with new songs? That's because DJ's play them.
And another part is to get those tracks under attention of DJ's
And thats why i need a record company in my case.

But actually it wouldn't make a difference IMO:
Whether i let a record company take care of those things, or me hiring them, the same process is involved, the same people are needed.

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Originally posted by Mike_Foyle so everything u download u delete straight away after you have evaluated its quality?

If it's good I buy it, if it's shit I delete it.

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Originally posted by smallSHEEP I don't know why artists with a fan base don't put a paypal link on their artist page for generous donations. I know 1 or 2 artists that I would certainly give random cash to if I could. I would also feel better knowing it had not gone to any middleman.

i think if people did that then they would get ever more shit from people saying that they are only interested in the money etc etc. + i dont think anyone would actually dontate hehe

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Originally posted by Sand Leaper If it's good I buy it, if it's shit I delete it.

fair play, at the end of the day its not damaging to anyone. i just got the wrong impression from your previous posts =)

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Originally posted by Benno de Goeij Yes i could... But for me there is a big BUT: I need to make music thats what i like, that's what i want to do. I don't want to get involved in the selling business too much, it would eat my inspiration. And don't forget: it's not simply realeasing! There's a process of making a record know to public which i can't. There's legal stuff which i don't have time for. There's timing when and how to release a record. It's not just releasing an mp3. How are you updated with new songs? That's because DJ's play them. And another part is to get those tracks under attention of DJ's And thats why i need a record company in my case. But actually it wouldn't make a difference IMO: Whether i let a record company take care of those things, or me hiring them, the same process is involved, the same people are needed.

well i definitely agree that you would have to take on a lot of the promotion effort and stuff...so i can understand why some wouldn't want to do that. and yeah i suppose as far as mastering and vinyl pressing is concerned labels have much better contacts and connections...i dunno its just something i've never liked...but yeah everything you said i agree with...

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Originally posted by Mike_Foyle lol i know but the same principle applies. both are illegal, both are crimes. just makin a point

just keeping the discussions fair for u music discussion junkies

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller thall shalt not stealith thall shalt not killith

he who killeth, stealeth from the deatheth. and in so
he who giveth taketh awayeth

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Originally posted by Benno de Goeij So BMW sold one car less right?

Nono, that's the whole point. They didn't sell one car less because the guy who copied it wasn't gonna buy one anyways. That's why it differs from just stealing a car. Now if the guy who copied it was a rich sob with that kind of money to just throw away on a car, then you could say BMW sold one car less, because he would've been a potential buyer.

Same goes with reccord sales. The industry calculates "losses" of millions because the average person has an mp3 collection of several gigabytes. But if you consider overpriced CDs, filler materials, etcetera, it would've cost them thousands to buy all those. Not a single person I know has thousands of dollars to spend on music. So this whole "we're losing millions" deal is a result of poor quality production, or simply the industry itself going downhill and trying to blame it's losses on something else.

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Originally posted by Mike_Foyle i think if people did that then they would get ever more shit from people saying that they are only interested in the money etc etc. + i dont think anyone would actually dontate hehe

hahahaha....

oliver lieb if you set up a paypal link i'll send you $50 dollars!

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Originally posted by Floorfiller hahahaha.... oliver lieb if you set up a paypal link i'll send you $50 dollars!

some people are pretty desprate!

and no.. i DID NOT say yes.

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Originally posted by Benno de Goeij Yes i could... But for me there is a big BUT: I need to make music thats what i like, that's what i want to do. I don't want to get involved in the selling business too much, it would eat my inspiration. And don't forget: it's not simply realeasing! There's a process of making a record know to public which i can't. There's legal stuff which i don't have time for. There's timing when and how to release a record. It's not just releasing an mp3. How are you updated with new songs? That's because DJ's play them. And another part is to get those tracks under attention of DJ's And thats why i need a record company in my case. But actually it wouldn't make a difference IMO: Whether i let a record company take care of those things, or me hiring them, the same process is involved, the same people are needed.

I guess this means there's a huge void that could be filled. If someone credible within the electronic scene comes up with a MP3 selling site plus taking care of the promotion of the tracks it could eventually have some success. But this would be just another kind of record label, it would still be an intermediary.

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Originally posted by Mike_Foyle some people are pretty desprate! and no.. i DID NOT say yes.

Mike, what if i make u a millioner? would you say yes? .

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Originally posted by gouuryella Mike, what if i make u a millioner? would you say yes? .

I'll consider it... HAHAHA

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Originally posted by Mike_Foyle I'll consider it... HAHAHA

hahaha

Since the stuff I have released so far has only been on vinyl (with the exception of a couple of compilations which I'll probably see all of about 20 euros for anyways), it doesn't particularly bother me if someone without the means to play vinyl downloads my music. That said, if a DJ likes it enough to play it in his sets, but doesn't buy the vinyl because he's downloaded it already, I'd be somewhat disappointed. If someone downloaded it before the release date and played it, I wouldn't particularly mind as long as: A) they bought it afterwards, and B) it didn't somehow affect it getting signed.

A lot of people enjoy trance but don't have tech12s or whatnot, so can't really get their hands on the music without DL'ing mp3s. No harm no foul IMO; ultimately I'm just happy they like my music enough to spend 10 minutes listening to it.

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Originally posted by Aquarian Nono, that's the whole point. They didn't sell one car less because the guy who copied it wasn't gonna buy one anyways.

But as soon as he starts copying he wants to! Its all about priorities.

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Not a single person I know has thousands of dollars to spend on music.

But as soon as he starts copying he wants to! Its all about priorities.

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Originally posted by paranoik0 I guess this means there's a huge void that could be filled. If someone credible within the electronic scene comes up with a MP3 selling site plus taking care of the promotion of the tracks it could eventually have some success. But this would be just another kind of record label, it would still be an intermediary.

My A&R understands me, guides me and has his hart for music, and is not after the big bucks in the first place. That's worth very much for me.
Same goes for my publisher.

I hate the i-am-gonna-quickly-fill-mypockets-with-cash loosers in the industry just as you guys. But not everybody is a bad guy!

quote:

Originally posted by Benno de Goeij My A&R understands me, guides me and has his hart for music, and is not after the big bucks in the first place. That's worth very much for me. Same goes for my publisher. I hate the i-am-gonna-quickly-fill-mypockets-with-cash loosers in the industry just as you guys. But not everybody is a bad guy!

ok, but my point wasn't so much "lets keep cash out of intermediaries as much as possible" but more like "this system would give more money to the artists". currently we're leading to this:

mp3 shop <---------> record label <---------> artist

that system would be:

mp3 shop/label <--------> artist

in theory it'd be more profitable? of course nowadays there's still a lot of physical releases being sold, which kinda defeats this point, but in the future i think it'd be more benefitial. the possible disadvantages are the mp3shop/label getting too much of a monopoly, and the artists not being promoted effectively due to the shop/label not focusing on them, having too many artists signed with them.

quote:

Originally posted by paranoik0 ok, but my point wasn't so much "lets keep cash out of intermediaries as much as possible" but more like "this system would give more money to the artists". currently we're leading to this: mp3 shop <---------> record label <---------> artist that system would be: mp3 shop/label <--------> artist in theory it'd be more profitable? of course nowadays there's still a lot of physical releases being sold, which kinda defeats this point, but in the future i think it'd be more benefitial. the possible disadvantages are the mp3shop/label getting too much of a monopoly, and the artists not being promoted effectively due to the shop/label not focusing on them, having too many artists signed with them.

Exaclty

Sometimes good things just cost something extra.

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