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-- Disconnected with Trance Music lately
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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J And you're lumping them all in with the same complaint? I have no problem with epic or anthem trance provided it's creative and interesting. The bland soft- around with the formula anymore, and the result is stagnation. Argue with synth stuff you get today is neither. Producers simply don't want to messthat all you like, but it won't go away.

Well you are right that there is a small amount of producers that have not improved apon any formula and are producing tracks with only a success-rate in mind. I can think of a few, but this to me is not as hate-inspiring as it may be to you.

And I think we differ on one clear view-point. This section of trance producers to me is hardly worth noticing or thinking about (e.g. it's small); whereas you thiink it is the deadly leech that is sucking away at the soul of trance and is its ultmate demise. Which do you think is more delusional?

quote:

Originally posted by djmetatron Wow, your meaning of the word superficial must be different than mine. Superficial music can VERY MUCH put you �into a trance'. You don't have to think too much tdo be in a trance, you just hear the rhythm and the sound and become entranced, not much below the surface. That is what I mean. If you have a different view point then please do share. The sounds themselves can be very complicated (high amount of layers/channels) and the quality of the recording can be top notch; but if it's successful trance (or any EDM tune really), it's still superficial and two dimensional. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just mean that you must accept this fact and weigh your criticisms accordingly.

I have to disagree. As in totally. I think you don't listen to the right trance. Good trance can have things going on that you detect unconsciously, and only really pick up on a noticable level when you cut some of the frequency away.

Oh, and you can believe that there is still innovative, original trance being made if you want.

1998/99

The golden years for me. Nothing will ever be like that again. So many tracks coming out of amazing quality that still sound amazing.

trance after 2003 seems to not have the same spirit or energy or something is missing. I cant put my finger on it.

alternate - alternate mr raw remix

Is about the only thing from 03 that i would say had the spirit and energy im talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by djmetatron Wow, your meaning of the word superficial must be different than mine. Superficial music can VERY MUCH put you �into a trance'. You don't have to think too much tdo be in a trance, you just hear the rhythm and the sound and become entranced, not much below the surface. That is what I mean. If you have a different view point then please do share.

The only 'trance' that most of the music I regard as superficial puts me in, is sleep. To me, proper trance consists of layers and layers of subtleties, slowly progressing music that keeps your attention and makes you forget about time.

Superficial trance, on the other hand, reminds me about time every other minute or so because of some stupid crash-breakdown-buildup structure. Also, to me, vocals are a key indicator of superficial trance. Really, they're useless in this genre.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I have to disagree. As in totally. I think you don't listen to the right trance. Good trance can have things going on that you detect unconsciously, and only really pick up on a noticable level when you cut some of the frequency away.

Yes but 'unconcious' or rather subconsious messages that you can recieve are to me categorized under the superficial type. They are created by the producer as sounds that are supposed to be heard but on a differen't level than the consious level. What I mean is actual sceptisism and consious thought being required for most EDM is pretty much non-existent.

Example: Listening to an Elliot Smith album and 'consciously' empathising with his lyrics and 'consciously' processing his particular situation (he tried commiting suicide severel times and 2 years ago succeeded). This kind of thinking is hardly present in most EDM, especially trance.

It's an extreme case but I hope you are getting my point; EDM does not require you to be consiously present to enjoy or be 'entranced by' it's sounds.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Oh, and you can believe that there is still innovative, original trance being made if you want.

Yep I do, and if you don't maybe you should check out:

Kosmas Epsilon
Mannel
Hydroid
Mike Foyle
Benz & MD
Delikate Imposters
Niklas Harding
Pig & Dan
Ava Mea
James Holden
Nathan Fake

If none of these guys do it for you, I don't know what will.

Jesus Christ. So, of all things, you consider lyrics not to be superficial? And that subtle, deep-set elements in track are superficial? I think you need to get the dictionary out on what the word means.

quote:

Originally posted by djmetatron It's unbelievable how pretenious and just plain picky you all are. Just enjoy the music for what it is! Appreciate what Andy Moor and Adam White are trying to do with the sound. The root of my love for electronic stems from the love of the use of tecnology to express feelings and experiences. I have yet to hear of one reason why trance isn't supposed to be superficial. You just say.. "wrong." or "he's right though". But nothing to actually support your opinion. Maybe I should make one caveat clear. I don't persoanlly think that the superficiality of the genre is a good thing; but what I'm saying is that getting agry over the superficiality of trance is like hating shit for smelling bad. You can do it all you want but it's still gonna stink. So your tastes have become more refined/picky. Good for you, whoopidy doo dah! Doesn't change the fact that you used to love what you now hate.

without reading the posts following your's (i'll get to em after posting this), the evidence for how trance wasn't superficial in the begining exists, that's why no one is bothering to give you 'reason' and instead just say "he's right though", it exists in the form of music, (nearly) all trance music 'trance' music that was released in the early nineties.

and even though my tastes have gotten more refined, i dont hate something i used to love.
both because i never loved what you're thinking about to begin with
and because i dont hate any genre of music.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Jesus Christ. So, of all things, you consider lyrics not to be superficial? And that subtle, deep-set elements in track are superficial? I think you need to get the dictionary out on what the word means.

exactly.

based on metatron's last post i can see his definition is the complete opposite of superficiality.

bah, whatever.. agree to disagree.

I think I am using the word 'superficial' in a differen't way than you though.

Of course there are many productions in EDM that can hardly be considered simply 'superficial'. What I am saying is that the roots of EDM are about the immediate sound. I hate to put down your precious music as being 'superficial' but I'm not being negative at all when I am saying this. I simply mean that EDM is meant to be heard and not thought about is all.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T and even though my tastes have gotten more refined, i dont hate something i used to love. both because i never loved what you're thinking about to begin with and because i dont hate any genre of music.

Well I'm not really sure of who exactly I was refering to when I said "you now hate what you used to love". I was a bit drunk when saying that and it was a bit obtuse (I always seem to get in these arguments after drinking. ). But it does refer to many people who used to love say.. Tiesto(14) and have now completely abandonded him and bash him at every opportunity.

quote:

Originally posted by djmetatron bah, whatever.. agree to disagree.

we're not arguing about opinions here though, at least i'm not.
we're arguing over facts, which you fail to accept for whatever reason.

What exactly are these 'facts' were arguing about.

I was saying that trance (and most EDM) is made for the dance floor and therefor it's main purpose is to immediately please. The word 'superficial' got thrown in there as the best word I could think of to describe it at that momnet. If you've got a differen't view point on this than it's simply a disagreement.

And I still have not heard you fully state your opinion about this. "The music speaks for itself" argument doesn't cut it with me.

quote:

Originally posted by djmetatron What exactly are these 'facts' were arguing about. I was saying that trance (and most EDM) is made for the dance floor and therefor it's main purpose is to immediately please. The word 'superficial' got thrown in there as the best word I could think of to describe it at that momnet. If you've got a differen't view point on this than it's simply a disagreement. And I still have not heard you fully state your opinion about this. "The music speaks for itself" argument doesn't cut it with me.

today's trance has a breakdown every 2-3 minutes, back then, trance didnt have breakdowns. one track by itself was not enough to 'please' anyone, it is the set that got you into a trance, not the individual tracks (which is impossible unless you're on drugs, your subconscious self cant take control of you in a matter of a few minutes), the tracks were the tools, they werent made for the clubbers to buy on vinyls nor on cds, they were made as tools for the djs.

i've been ignoring your usage of the word superficial ever since you cleared up your skewed definition of it, so that's irrelavant.

and "the music speaks for itself" argument 'doesnt cut it' with you because you probably havent heard any of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T today's trance has a breakdown every 2-3 minutes, back then, trance didnt have breakdowns. one track by itself was not enough to 'please' anyone, it is the set that got you into a trance, not the individual tracks (which is impossible unless you're on drugs, your subconscious self cant take control of you in a matter of a few minutes), the tracks were the tools, they werent made for the clubbers to buy on vinyls nor on cds, they were made as tools for the djs.

I still believe this very much exists in trance today. Just don't look for it on ASOT or GDJB. Mike Foyle is one that comes to mind atm.

quote:

and "the music speaks for itself" argument 'doesnt cut it' with you because you probably havent heard any of it.

Don't know exactly what music your talking about but I am thinking we are comparing Oakey/Sasha/Dig/Tiesto/Ferry pre-'01 to today. If yes, then I have heard it.

i believe he's refering to the first half of the 90's

quote:

Originally posted by paranoik0 i believe he's refering to the first half of the 90's

correct.

What music then exactly? Oakey's goa stuff? Goa is pretty good and very close to what Psy's refering to I think but again, it's goa. Trance, as it's widely defined, didn't really emerge until the late nineties. If I'm wrong about this please do correct me with examples.

quote:

Originally posted by djmetatron What music then exactly? Oakey's goa stuff? Goa is pretty good and very close to what Psy's refering to I think but again, it's goa. Trance, as it's widely defined, didn't really emerge until the late nineties. If I'm wrong about this please do correct me with examples.

for starters:
early platipus
everything harthouse
early oliver lieb
a lot of r&s

and goa was hardly around back then,, there was a bit of it, but not enough.

and trance as it's "widely defined" nowadays is far from what it used to be.

some of my examples may be very acidic, and those examples tend not to fall onto the definition of trance back then, but more of a subgenre, namely acid trance, so ignore those for the purpose of this.

(btw, acid trance is my favorite kind of trance)

acid trace kicked ass gimmie tres chic and noom any day over asot

quote:

Originally posted by raydn acid trace kicked ass gimmie tres chic and noom any day over asot

bit funny how im listening to avb live atm lol oh well its still pretty good i've heard much worse

quote:

Originally posted by raydn bit funny how im listening to avb live atm lol oh well its still pretty good i've heard much worse

listen to my set instead then

quote:

Originally posted by djmetatron Kosmas Epsilon Mannel Hydroid Mike Foyle Benz & MD Delikate Imposters Niklas Harding Pig & Dan Ava Mea James Holden Nathan Fake If none of these guys do it for you, I don't know what will.

Oh, the irony! Most of these artists have never produced trance or stopped producing trance.

quote:

Originally posted by armandzadza Oh, the irony! Most of these artists have never produced trance or stopped producing trance.

wtf are you talking about? Ok a couple are stretching it, and most are very progressive, but your way off base dood.

quote:

Originally posted by djmetatron wtf are you talking about? Ok a couple are stretching it, and most are very progressive, but your way off base dood.

not if he's following the old (read: real) definition of trance.

Kosmas Epsilon = Progressive House
Benz & MD = McProg
Delikate Imposters = Progressive House
Pig & Dan = Progressive House
James Holden = Tech-House
Nathan Fake = Tech-House

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