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-- BBC review about Armin's Shivers
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quote:

Originally posted by Fresh Prince

omg. that is so creative. And you say that us 'haters' are just filth ? Jesus christ that just goes to show you have absolutely no place to tell us not to hate when you do this in the case of one guy having the balls to not cum all over the release. fucks sakes

Ohh what happened did I hurt your feelings ?
I'm not impressed

quote:

Originally posted by Col I think generally, the top-end DJs are never as good at producing as those who concentrate more heavily on producing (makes sense). Armin isn't a great producer, nor is Tiesto ('Just Be' wasn't exactly great), and come on, PvD has had the same sound since 96. They probably just don't have enough time, too busy touring. Guys like Sander van Doorn aren't as big on the DJing thing (yet), so their productions are far more refined and original. Once you become a big DJ, your productions are never gonna be as good. You can only be a great DJ or a great producer, you can't be both. Simple as that.

jup i have been saying this for a long time already. The fact that if u are a Dj u have to produce tracks and if u are a producer u have to DJ to make a living is a very bad thing and makes the quality level drop. Just stick to what u are good at, Djing or producing, dont combine it to make big bucks

quote:

Originally posted by Ian^ omg. that is so creative. And you say that us 'haters' are just filth ? Jesus christ that just goes to show you have absolutely no place to tell us not to hate when you do this in the case of one guy having the balls to not cum all over the release. fucks sakes

Agreed, it's just another case of the pot calling the kettle black. If you want to carry on an intelligent conversation while defending your opinion, then fine. It also goes to show just how ignorant he is and how pointless it would be to carry on a conversation with him; a reviewer posts her/his personal review about the kid's favorite artist, and the kid feels the need to attack and defend his artist by insulting the reviewer, when in all honesty Armin probably doesn't give two shits.

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Originally posted by idoru Agreed, it's just another case of the pot calling the kettle black. If you want to carry on an intelligent conversation while defending your opinion, then fine. It also goes to show just how ignorant he is and how pointless it would be to carry on a conversation with him; a reviewer posts her/his personal review about the kid's favorite artist, and the kid feels the need to attack and defend his artist by insulting the reviewer, when in all honesty Armin probably doesn't give two shits.

precisely. I've stated so many times, that I think Armin has talent, he can mix when he wants to, He can produce when he wants to, i've explained the reasons, backed it up with examples, and still it gets nowhere. He comes around & rather than giving an intelligent response, throws shit like that out. Needless and immature sadly

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Originally posted by gouuryella Tiesto isnt a good producer? Is that the only track you've heard from him, "Just Be"? Armin isnt compared to Tiesto producing wise, but Armin has put out good stuff in the past. PvD has put out some great productions, not this year with The Other Side, but his up there in my books.

Nothing on the album 'Just Be' was particularly good; and yes, I love Suburban Train and the Gouryella productions, but they have a dated sound which other newer producers have surpassed now - and Tiesto hasn't, he hasn't risen to the next level.

PvD...his songs have sounded the same since 96. Same kick, off-beat bass, ultra-compressed sounds, etc. He's not a great producer either, imo.

quote:

Originally posted by Col PvD...his songs have sounded the same since 96.

What?

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J What?

Yea that's what I was thinking. How does the general sound production on anything from Seven Ways and that era sound the same as the level of 'professionalism' that his productions hold today? They quite simply don't. What a dense thing to say.

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Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Yea that's what I was thinking. How does the general sound production on anything from Seven Ways and that era sound the same as the level of 'professionalism' that his productions hold today? They quite simply don't. What a dense thing to say.

He hasn't changed his ideas much. Most of his tracks have very similar arrangements and similar sounds.

I guess it was a mistake to criticise one of the "cooler" DJs; if this was Tiesto, no-one would have given a shit what I'd said, they would've just agreed because I was highlighting a negative aspect.

quote:

Originally posted by Col I guess it was a mistake to criticise one of the "cooler" DJs; if this was Tiesto, no-one would have given a shit what I'd said, they would've just agreed because I was highlighting a negative aspect.

Yep same goes for Armin, they just agree and highlight and drown in their own negativity.

quote:

Originally posted by Col He hasn't changed his ideas much. Most of his tracks have very similar arrangements and similar sounds. I guess it was a mistake to criticise one of the "cooler" DJs; if this was Tiesto, no-one would have given a shit what I'd said, they would've just agreed because I was highlighting a negative aspect.

Yes it's cool to like PvD. What a solid point to make to support your arguement. Well in son.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Yes it's cool to like PvD. What a solid point to make to support your arguement. Well in son.

If you're gonna reply with sarcasm, you should at least give a bit of serious argumentative foundation as well, so that it doesn't look like you're bowing out in a childish manner.

I've already stated my argument; that PvD's tracks are limited in their variety of structure, arrangement, and instrumentation. One example is the way he overuses off-beat basslines. I'm not saying he's any worse or better than Tiesto or Armin, but I am saying he is a relatively poor producer when compared to some of the top producers in the trance scene, and that this is a result of him being a successful DJ and not being able to maintain both fields to a simultaneously high standard.

That's my argument; do you even have one? Or will your reply just be riddled with more sarcasm and half-arsed attempts to be funny?

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Originally posted by Col I am saying he is a relatively poor producer when compared to some of the top producers in the trance scene

just out of curiosity, who are the top producers in the trance scene in your opinion?

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Originally posted by Acton just out of curiosity, who are the top producers in the trance scene in your opinion?

Yeah, I guess it's subjective. I'm just talking about, perhaps, Sander van Doorn, Signum, etc. There are a lot more artists I think are more talented than Paul van Dyk, but merely for comparative purposes those are a couple of examples...

I just find their music more original, varied, and I can basically feel more effort and brainpower has been put into them.

quote:

Originally posted by Col Nothing on the album 'Just Be' was particularly good; and yes, I love Suburban Train and the Gouryella productions, but they have a dated sound which other newer producers have surpassed now - and Tiesto hasn't, he hasn't risen to the next level. PvD...his songs have sounded the same since 96. Same kick, off-beat bass, ultra-compressed sounds, etc. He's not a great producer either, imo.

There were some good tracks on Just Be, better then on Shiver in IMO. Suburban Train is one of his great productions, but there are many others, and other great remixes he has done. Tiesto droped out of Gouryella but he had his hands on a few productions . I think PvD is a great producer, his put out alot of great tracks and you have to give him credit, I dont know what you like but Tiesto and PvD have made some great productions in the past and you should respect that. You say they all sound the same? I dont buy it, maybe he has the same style but thats his style of production, if thats what your referring to.

quote:

Originally posted by Col If you're gonna reply with sarcasm, you should at least give a bit of serious argumentative foundation as well, so that it doesn't look like you're bowing out in a childish manner. I've already stated my argument; that PvD's tracks are limited in their variety of structure, arrangement, and instrumentation. One example is the way he overuses off-beat basslines. I'm not saying he's any worse or better than Tiesto or Armin, but I am saying he is a relatively poor producer when compared to some of the top producers in the trance scene, and that this is a result of him being a successful DJ and not being able to maintain both fields to a simultaneously high standard. That's my argument; do you even have one? Or will your reply just be riddled with more sarcasm and half-arsed attempts to be funny?

Okay fair enough. The sound of his productions from 1996 (Seven Ways) to the sound of his productions today (TOOL, Other Side, etc): I have provided 2 samples for comparison. You have said earlier that his sound uses the 'same kick, off-beat bass, ultra-compressed sounds' and it's quite obvious from below that this is not always the case.

1996

2005

If you listen to both you can hear that his sound has come along way in terms of professionalism. So no, I don't think his songs from 1996 sound at all the same as what they do today.

I think too many people are too quick to jump on the 'PvD uses the same kick, same idea's, same whatever etc. ' arguement without actually taking a proper listen to his very extensive discography. I mean just taking Reflections as an example here, despite how much of a disaster that album may have been, it does show some very different ideas and sounds and arrangements on it: Knowledge, Home, That's Life, all carrying a different sound from the one that people normally associate with him.

Like I said, he has a very extensive discography, and I suggest you take a proper look at and at some of his more obscure productions before saying he has no originallity with his general sound. Also, when has it ever been 'cool' to like PvD?

Evidence, nice. :P

I can accept that in those 2 samples there's clearly a huge difference. But whether or not that really represents that he produces with a clear lot of variety, I don't know. I mean, Armin's criticised as a poor producer, and he was producing completely different house-orientated stuff under his Gimmick project (among others) - so does that mean he's as good a producer as PvD? Can they even be compared?

After listening to that stuff, I can safely take back what I said about having the same sound since 96, since it clearly deviates. But I still think his style is somewhat limited, especially in the modern day, and ESPECIALLY when compared to many other producers, particularly those who concentrate more on producing than DJing.

I mean, take some tracks by Sander van Doorn - 'Sam Sharp - Twister', 'Sander van Doorn - Bling Bling' and 'Purple Haze - Adrenaline'. If you ask me, in those 3 tracks alone there is more variety than in the entirety of PvD's Reflections album. And they're all by the same guy.

He has talent, but I wouldn't consider him a top-end producer - he just isn't, not anymore.

And yeah, it is considerably cooler to like PvD than someone like Tiesto or Armin - or at least it appears to be on this forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Col He has talent, but I wouldn't consider him a top-end producer - he just isn't, not anymore.

Who cares? You said he sounds the same now as he did in 1996, which is complete, utter bollocks.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Who cares? You said he sounds the same now as he did in 1996, which is complete, utter bollocks.

Most of his big singles are still pretty similar imo. But yeah, I guess I'll take back that comment, as I have been shown otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by Fresh Prince

I agree with Col. PvD's post millenium sound is way too repetetive. The structure, pads, bassline etc are so similiar. And Nothing But You was the �ber evidence of how horrible tunes he actually can produce.
I would say that he has gone more downhills than Armin. Considering that he actually was one of the pioneers of trance music.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 I would say that he has gone more downhills than Armin. Considering that he actually was one of the pioneers of trance music.

I tend to agree with this guy. But they're both mediocre nowadays.

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