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-- Suddenly I realized the stupidity of long buildups
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Ishkur:

I agree with you about how trance music has not stopped with the build ups...

But I think you are missing the effect of trance and a lot of EDM. Yes the snare rolls, build ups, crescendos and breakdowns are expected [even in a lot of house and techno], but what makes certain trance songs excell and stand out is their particular melodic or emotional effect and impact.

Sure you may have heard a similar melody before and maybe the bassline has been done, but what causes that new trance tune to satisfy it's audience is it's particular take on that tired key. Some of us have listened to trance for a long time and still enjoy it. We don't care that they haven't dropped the snare rolls and crescendos because we realize that they are just simple and fundamental tools that are used to acheive an effect. The real innovation is the melodic and emotional impact. The song's power over your ears, the way it controls you. That is what trance music is about and if you could never appreciate this then you never really appreciated trance.

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Originally posted by Aiwendil Oh, you're one of "those" people who attempts to get people banned because you don't like them. You know I could reveal to you why you continue to make a fool of yourself, but that would ruin my fun.

Ha!

I said already, those posts are not in breach of any forum rules, just annoying to me.

Who said anything about getting people banned.

Jumping to conclusions and assuming things are rookie mistakes, but then I know you arent a newbie or anything, jsut another alt in a sea of endless alts we have on here nowadays.

But, by no means let me interfere with your fun, because I'm finding that rather enjoyable too.

Also, my apologies for the semi-thread hijack

Kinda like your assumptions that my posts are meaningless all-caps nothings...right.

An alt what? What do you mean exactly. Yeah, i'm enjoying my fun and i'm glad you enjoy it too. So like, you wanna take any guesses as to why I really posted what I did? And you keep falling into every trap I lay for you. Why are people so predictable? Where is this "wit" you supposedly say you crush your opponents with. Twice i've baited you since you started this whole gay galavant, and twice you've fallen into my trap as predicted. You're neither interesting nor nice, as you've proven in the past few hours.

I believe you're the one who assumed my posts deserved to be "at the bottom of the food chain", which is why you began your futile assault in the first place. Statements like "I defeated them with my wit" and your attacks on my harmless posts tend to imply that you're a pretentious idiot. That's what you are, friend. Don't get all apologetic now that i've backblasted your attack with my superior bouncebackability.

This is the value I place on "internet etiquette":

That's a lot less value than you place on it, Urkel.

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Originally posted by djmetatron But I think you are missing the effect of trance and a lot of EDM. Yes the snare rolls, build ups, crescendos and breakdowns are expected [even in a lot of house and techno], but what makes certain trance songs excell and stand out is their particular melodic or emotional effect and impact.

That's the particular melodic or emotional impact you'll finde in a sweet Aqua track or Britney Spears medley.

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Sure you may have heard a similar melody before and maybe the bassline has been done, but what causes that new trance tune to satisfy it's audience is it's particular take on that tired key.

Yes, the duration of the wave and slight key change in a new trance tune will satisfy even the dimmest moron. I agree with you.

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Some of us have listened to trance for a long time

Not you, because you say...

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We don't care that they haven't dropped the snare rolls and crescendos because we realize that they are just simple and fundamental tools that are used to acheive an effect.

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The real innovation is the melodic and emotional impact. The song's power over your ears, the way it controls you. That is what trance music is about and if you could never appreciate this then you never really appreciated trance.

See there? And let me tell you another thing, let me blow your mind right now: you never appreciated trance.

quote:

Originally posted by Aiwendil Kinda like your assumptions that my posts are meaningless all-caps nothings...right. An alt what? What do you mean exactly. Yeah, i'm enjoying my fun and i'm glad you enjoy it too. So like, you wanna take any guesses as to why I really posted what I did?

The content of those posts, regardless of relevance to the thread, still often tend to be obscure, appreciated only by a select few, thus affirming the towering height of your elitist horse.

Though, it isn't the content, it's the blatent breach of internet etiquette that I find somewhat annoying.

But then, you are blatently so much better than I am in every way, so I should just be quiet and know my place.

I'll just stay at the bottom of the food-chain, with all the other interesting/nice people.

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Originally posted by djmetatron melodic or emotional effect and impact.

Stop right there. See, that's where you're wrong. Trance isn't supposed to have a melodic or emotional effect. It's supposed to ROB you of that melodic or emotional effect. It's supposed to subsume you, overload your senses, drag you into an alternative universe of bliss, without form, function, feeling or fashion. It's supposed to ENTRANCE you, a deep hypnosis, arresting the privilege of thought and the faculty of reason. Close your eyes, and everything is gone, a Temporary Autonomous Zone existing so long as is needed, like your own pirate utopia. Everything is whisked away, and all that exists is you and the music, and you aren't really quite sure about the "you" part. I love being in this state of mind. I live for this state of mind.

And then the beat drops, or a snare roll kicks in, and it's all gone. Like a bubble on the head of a pin. And getting it back is damn near impossible. The mood is destroyed, the buzz is ruined, the mellow is harshed, whatever you want to call it, this hypnosis that the music has put you in has been destroyed by some narcissistic idiot who decided 8 years ago that the purpose of trance wasn't to worship yourself and the music by looking inward, but to worship him and only him as some living, fascist god.

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Originally posted by djmetatron That is what trance music is about and if you could never appreciate this then you never really appreciated trance.

Allow me to be frank and crass here: You have no fucking idea what trance music is really about.

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Originally posted by Aiwendil

was i talking to you??

no.

was i talking about particular music like Aqua or Britney Spears??

nope.

do you have an unbelievably inflated ego only because a couple of people on the board thought one or two of your posts were amusing?

yes.

quote:

..Not you..

well since 97. but that's a long time for me.

and if that is too late to catch your beloved version of trance let me laugh heartily..

what you have done is assumed my taste and intellect in a way that would be easy for you to retort without trying to understand my post. you assume that i don't know what i'm talking about and have made the very slightest effort to comprehend my point, (which, again, is due to your strangely inflated ego).

*sigh* ...happens all the time.

listen, i just don't see the point of demonizing today's trance because it uses snare rolls. the snare rolls just seem to be a very good way of building energy. some of us like that.

anyway, aiwendil. you are very funny on occasion. but you definatly need to be knocked down a few pegs.

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Originally posted by Ishkur Stop right there. See, that's where you're wrong. Trance isn't supposed to have a melodic or emotional effect. It's supposed to ROB you of that melodic or emotional effect. It's supposed to subsume you, overload your senses, drag you into an alternative universe of bliss, without form, function, feeling or fashion. It's supposed to ENTRANCE you, a deep hypnosis, arresting the privilege of thought and the faculty of reason. Close your eyes, and everything is gone, a Temporary Autonomous Zone existing so long as is needed, like your own pirate utopia. Everything is whisked away, and all that exists is you and the music, and you aren't really quite sure about the "you" part. I love being in this state of mind. I live for this state of mind.

see, we agree on something!

quote:

And then the beat drops, or a snare roll kicks in, and it's all gone. Like a bubble on the head of a pin. And getting it back is damn near impossible. The mood is destroyed, the buzz is ruined, the mellow is harshed, whatever you want to call it, this hypnosis that the music has put you in has been destroyed by some narcissistic idiot who decided 8 years ago that the purpose of trance wasn't to worship yourself and the music by looking inward, but to worship him and only him as some living, fascist god.

not sure why the beat dropping causes you to lose your 'buzz' but for me it must be a tasteful breakdown and use of snares. most of what armin plays is not.

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Allow me to be frank and crass here: You have no fucking idea what trance music is really about.

and you do. and you are the only one who holds the key to the secret of trance music. and no one else will know it's true power unless they pass the ten trials of suffering and torment.

ok.. we have differen't views of what trance music is about then. but what i stated just before what you quoted of me was, what i thought a very succinct yet expressive way to describe it, "the song's power over your ears, the way it controls you." and i think it is very parallel you your description above.


back to the point. snare rolls are used in trance, but they don't define it nor are they it's downfall.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur It's supposed to ENTRANCE you, a deep hypnosis, arresting the privilege of thought and the faculty of reason. Close your eyes, and everything is gone, a Temporary Autonomous Zone existing so long as is needed, like your own pirate utopia. Everything is whisked away, and all that exists is you and the music, and you aren't really quite sure about the "you" part. I love being in this state of mind. I live for this state of mind.

This probably stems from me enjoying the social aspect of life, but this sounds like the kinda thing a drugged up hippie would do.

Or the average heroin junkie.

Escape from reality, get away from it all.

If that's what you want from music, so be it, listen to that which helps you accomplish those goals.

No real point slating music that doesn't help you do so.

Your perception of what trance is and means is different to other people's, not to say there aren't others who see it the same way yourself, but more so to live and let live, people can enjoy what they want.

I sure would like to hear a set that had that sorta entrancing affect. I have only heard isolated tracks but from the things you kids always say it seems like those kind of trance songs work much better as part of a liveset. Are there any deeply hypnotic trance sets that are easy to obtain? The isolated songs from back in the day that ppl keep recomending dont give a very good impression of what it really sounded like. I would really like to hear a set that had Eden Transmission - I'm so high in it. So who has recordings of what trance was "supposed to sound like". Just a good 2 or so hours of that kind of trance, posted somewhere where everyone could have a chance to hear it, would really help alot of people understand the point you guys are trying to make. The closest that I have ever come to hearing something like that is the oakey cd "voyage into trance".

There just has to be trance set recordings that were made before robert miles. There is that one website with old realplayer recordings but I havent heard anything on that site yet that sounds trancy.

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Originally posted by Zombie0915 I sure would like to hear a set that had that sorta entrancing affect. I have only heard isolated tracks but from the things you kids always say it seems like those kind of trance songs work much better as part of a liveset. Are there any deeply hypnotic trance sets that are easy to obtain? The isolated songs from back in the day that ppl keep recomending dont give a very good impression of what it really sounded like. I would really like to hear a set that had Eden Transmission - I'm so high in it. So who has recordings of what trance was "supposed to sound like". Just a good 2 or so hours of that kind of trance, posted somewhere where everyone could have a chance to hear it, would really help alot of people understand the point you guys are trying to make. The closest that I have ever come to hearing something like that is the oakey cd "voyage into trance". There just has to be trance set recordings that were made before robert miles. There is that one website with old realplayer recordings but I havent heard anything on that site yet that sounds trancy.

http://www.the-psychologist.com/mix...n(06162004).mp3

It does the trick quite well for me, quality trance.

quote:

Originally posted by djmetatron not sure why the beat dropping causes you to lose your 'buzz'

have you ever tried to enjoy something, and you're so into it you lose all sense of time and direction and placement and sense of self......and then someone comes up behind you and wacks you on the back of the head with a baseball bat?

Yeah. That's what breakdowns, snare rolls and anthems to. Complete and total momentum killer.

quote:

Originally posted by djmetatron back to the point. snare rolls are used in trance, but they don't define it nor are they it's downfall.

No. Anthems, breakdowns and snare rolls collectively are.

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Originally posted by Ishkur have you ever tried to enjoy something, and you're so into it you lose all sense of time and direction and placement and sense of self......and then someone comes up behind you and wacks you on the back of the head with a baseball bat? Yeah. That's what breakdowns, snare rolls and anthems to. Complete and total momentum killer. No. Anthems, breakdowns and snare rolls collectively are.

So all trance music has to be what you consider right?

Ha!

Also, I fail to see how a good buildup/break kills momentum, breakdowns obviously do, but then that's the idea.

quote:

Originally posted by djmetatron anyway, aiwendil. you are very funny on occasion. but you definatly need to be knocked down a few pegs.

Look, i'm not the one who thinks he knows more about trance than he actually does. Don't blame me.

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Originally posted by kr00t0n This probably stems from me enjoying the social aspect of life, but this sounds like the kinda thing a drugged up hippie would do.

Or a buddhist or gregorian monk, or a whirling dirvish, or a zen master, a painter, a poet, a writer, an athlete (basketbal players talk about it all the time when they're "in the zone"), or anyone who prays, meditates, or watches Joy of Painting with Bob Ross.

It has a psychological and scientific faceplate now: It's called Flow, being spearheaded by Dr. Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (pronounced Chick-sent-me-haley) at the University of Chicago. You can chalk it up to drug-using hippies all you want, but it's an important part of the human condition you're missing out on, supported by religions, sociologists, therapists, and the scientific community.

It's a human state of mind, of complete calm and clarity, that is extremely hard to get into, and once in, is fairly easy to snap out of, so one must take careful measures not to succumb to an environment where this might happen. The music, at one point, used to help you reach this state, and guide you once you're in it. It doesn't do that anymore, because of its sudden stops and starts.

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Originally posted by kr00t0n So all trance music has to be what you consider right?

No, trance has to at least be in the slightest bit...well...ENTRANCING.

It's not. You'd think it would live up to its namesake. Go ask Simon Berry or Mark Reeder what they think of today's "trance".

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Originally posted by kr00t0n Also, I fail to see how a good buildup/break kills momentum, breakdowns obviously do, but then that's the idea.

Momentum is a smooth-flowing river.

A breakdown is a dam.
A snare roll is a water fall.

either one ruins your rafting trip.

Understand?

quote:

Originally posted by Aiwendil Look, i'm not the one who thinks he knows more about trance than he actually does. Don't blame me.

I know what I know about trance, and I have expressed it..


lick my balls.

quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n So all trance music has to be what you consider right?

This is what happens every time:

Ishkur: Trance should be "Trance", like it was back in the late 80's and early 90's.
"Trance Addicts": Well i've been listening to trance since 1998, and the only tracks i've heard from before then are from Robert Miles, Energy 52, X-Cabs, and Pete Lazonby, therefore I have no idea what you're talking about, but you're wrong anyway!

The end.

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Originally posted by Ishkur Momentum is a smooth-flowing river. A breakdown is a dam. A snare roll is a water fall. either one ruins your rafting trip. Understand?

that is a very opinionated statement, and not one that should be construed as fact.

...

Momentum is a good trip down the mountain on a snowboard.

A breakdown is a cliff.
A snare roll is a ramp.

neither one ruins my trip.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Momentum is a smooth-flowing river. A breakdown is a dam. A snare roll is a water fall. either one ruins your rafting trip. Understand?

But I don't like rafting.

You can't use your own interpretations to force others to agree with you, why not just listen to that which gives you what you seek?

Things change, so the word 'trance' doesn't mean what it did back in the day... tough, no point whining about it, it's not going to make any difference.

You like trance to be xyz, ergo you listen to xyz.

Other people like abc, some like 123, personal taste, whilst often an 'arguable' topic, isn't really, because it's personal.

quote:

Originally posted by Aiwendil This is what happens every time: Ishkur: Trance should be "Trance", like it was back in the late 80's and early 90's. "Trance Addicts": Well i've been listening to trance since 1998, and the only tracks i've heard from before then are from Robert Miles, Energy 52, and Pete Lazonby, therefore I have no idea what you're talking about, but you're wrong anyway! The end.

I have never said he was wrong, more that he states his opinion as fact.

The sound of what trance was is different to what it is now.

Moaning about it won't change anything, I'd advise Ishkur to take up producing if he really wants to make even the slightest impact.

You want to play extreme sports, go listen to punk or rock music.

this is called T-R-A-N-C-E. Say with me again. T R A N C E.

What's the first thing that comes to mind when you hear that word? .....tranquility, perhaps? Arresting of all mental capacity? let's check ye olde dictionary:

1 : a state of partly suspended animation or inability to function
2 : a somnolent state (as of deep hypnosis)
3 : a state of profound abstraction or absorption

Doesn't sound like a word conducive to blasting a 180 frontside nugget loop iron cross off a phat slope, now does it? Unless of course you suck at snowboarding, in which case your analogy is false anyway, since your trip will be ruined by a expertly executed faceplant into the snowbank to the catcalls and laughter of your friends.

How entrancing!

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Originally posted by kr00t0n The sound of what trance was is different to what it is now.

Call it something else then.

I recommend: Schmaltz.

lol, it's amusing how barrel-scrapingly unfunny & strung together aiwendil's posts start to look once ishkur joins the discussion

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Call it something else then. I recommend: Schmaltz.

it's about 8 years too late to be saying that though really isn't it?

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