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-- Jihad on Denmark - freedom of expression rears its ugly head once again...
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Isn't getting all worked up and making minimal to no effort to understand why the other party is upset incredibly rational and praise worthy behaviour from a "civilized" people? I'm kind of pissed at Muslims and the West for making such a big deal out of something so incredibly stupid and trivial. Divide and conquer. *shakes head*

I love this one. Not only did the paper France Soir publish the cartoons, but they ran this on their front page:



Under the headline "Yes, we have the right to caricature God", France Soir covered its front with Buddha, the Christian and Jewish deities and the Prophet all sitting on a cloud. The Christian God says: "Don�t complain Muhammad, all of us have been caricatured."

As can be expected, Muslims all over are up in arms ready to shoot something. A few people have been fired at various papers. You can be sure this will spark a 'limits to free press' debate. Which, of course, is ludicrous.

I imagine things will die down after a few weeks (unless someone is assasinated). Things will return to 'normal' until the next story is published and gets everyone riled up again. Seems as if these things are on a cycle.

Please Please All Muslims that read this you are being rediculous in your claims that this is not right...that is all oh and tell your extremists that they shouldnt do something stupid as it will just look worse for you

Serveral things on this:
Denmark is right, Arab world wrong.

I applaud trancaholic and St_Andrew in their passion about this, it is for them, more than just cartoons (just as I imagine it is for the muslims as well... just I can't palce it).

Next, congrats Trancaholic on coming to terms with the demagogary of Bill Clinton. Welcome to reality, it an't pretty, but it is what it is. Occrider, its harsh of you to make fun of Trancaholic's reaons to come to terms with Bill - I think most of us (me certianly) have all at somepoint and time (and many still) been entranced by the words of Bill and his aura. He's a great speaker, but he's like the pied poper, he plays what we want to hear. And sure this might be trivial, but for everyone there was an event, large or small, that broke us out of Bill's spell, to realize he's just a nobody really and will do and say whatever brings him praise. For me like you, it was many years back (2001) but for others it is recent.

Lastely, Occrider, this is not like the Swedish incident for several reasons:
1) It was a government-sponsored art exhibit.
2) Israel's govenor was purposely invited to this government-sponosred art exhibit about the middle east conflict (Imagine if Iran's Mullahs were invited to an exhibit about "tolerance of the world's religions" only to find these caricatures, it would be as equally tasteless and I would have no issues if they would have picked them up and torn them to pieces).
3) Israel's response was shame on your intolerance and incomprehension, not lets boycott all of Sweden.
4) Sweden told Israel's ambassador to leave, they did not pull their embassy out.
5) Israelis and Jews did not congregate to boycott Swedish products.
6) It had nothing to do with religion.

OK I'm done

I'm going to go run to the store to buy some Danish cheese (trancaholic any recommendaitons?)

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I'm sure you Vikings will give in to these Muslims... Europeans love to appease

However horrible it is to face this fact, it seems like your comment just became a sad distorted joke:

quote:

Self-censorship arrives in America Has the violently negative reaction of Muslims regarding the Mohammed cartoon controversy in Europe traveled to the United States, self-censoring criticism of Islam here? There are some chilling indications. Reporting on the events in Europe for NBC Nightly News and MSNBC News, reporter Donna Friesen forthrightly stated �we�ve chosen not to show� the cartoons. Chosen? And now a Dallas Public Broadcasting System station has succumbed to local Muslim protests by postponing a broadcast of �The Roots of War: The Road to Peace,� a documentary on the origins of Islamic terrorism. The protesters claim the program has many errors; the producers disagree and aside from a disclaimer, will not change it. Will other PBS stations follow the Dallas lead? Is this the start of a troubling trend? Remember, �Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.�

I can add that CNN has also "chosen to not show the cartoons in respect for Islam".
Again we see this obvious difference being made between offending a radical muslim and the average news reader. Clearly the CNN is offending all its other readers by not showing them what's causing this row and assuming that they are unable to react calmly to cartoons.

Other pieces of tidbit (and I've stopped finding english sources now): The editor of the Jordanian paper has been fired, and the paper was recalled. The Jordanian government has started an investigation into the matter, and the owners of the paper has begun investigating if others at the paper could be blamed.
In New Zealand, a couple of papers have stated that they are going to run the cartoons. Purely as a show of solidarity and defense of freedom of speech.
Finally, a really well-written blog on the issue by a guy living in Cairo. He's a self-described extremely cynical, snarky, pro-US, secular, libertarian, disgruntled sandmonkey, but still manages to write from a somewhat non-western perspective I think:

quote:

Even though the Danes have apologized repeatedly for offending muslims by having a cartoon of the Prophet, the muslim world seems to be enjoying its "newfound power" and relishing in its "victory" in appearing retarded and is refusing to end the boycott against danish products. People at the comment section in the Arabiya story have not only vowed to never stop boycotting Denmark, but called for boycotting Norway and any other european country that may follow suit (A newspaper in France, feeling the need to have Paris torched again, just reprinted them cartoons) . But so far it has only been the Danes and their products that have taken the brunt of muslim anger worldwide. Fully knowing that it is retarded to punish a whole country and its products for what a Newspaper in that country did, I expected someone to start a movement to restore common sense our muslim brothers and demand a stop to the boycott, especially since the Danes have apologized over and over again. Then I figured, shit, why don't I be that someone? It is kind of expected from me anyway. Not to mention, it will piss off all the right people and I am all for that. So I guess I will start the official local campaign to boycott the boycott, and thanks to the efforts of Roba and Jameed, the campaign now has banners that you can get here, put on your website and show solidarity with Danish people, and your love for Danish cows, who have never hurt anyone- unlike their crazy british counterparts.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Isn't getting all worked up and making minimal to no effort to understand why the other party is upset incredibly rational and praise worthy behaviour from a "civilized" people? I'm kind of pissed at Muslims and the West for making such a big deal out of something so incredibly stupid and trivial. Divide and conquer. *shakes head*

I disagree fundamentally with your views of this situation as being symmetric. However, I do realize that that difference can be caused by differences in fundamental values. I, for instance, consider the fact that Arabs are trying to impose their value system on a foreign society as much worse than any kind of offense (and actually think that trying to impose your values on someone is an offense in itself).
I do not have any problems with understanding
(i) radical muslims feel offended, and
(ii) that the religion for a great many of them is their entire existence.
However, there's precious little I can do about it - considering that they wouldn't themselves want to compromise on (ii), and by preventing (i) I would go against something that is crucial to me. So, yes, I understand fully. There's just nothing I can do. The same goes for the papers that "keeps provoking":
The fact of the matter is that Jyllands-posten (and Denmark) was left standing as the only defenders of freedom of speech for a loooong time. There was an effort to explain the Danish model of secularism to Arabs, there were appeals through official channels to the EU and the UN, but nothing helped. In the end it was not until the foreign media decided to take matters into their own hands, and hence forcing their governments into action, that something resembling a unified defense of freedom of speech was established. Hence, they cannot and should not back down on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I applaud trancaholic and St_Andrew in their passion about this, it is for them, more than just cartoons (just as I imagine it is for the muslims as well... just I can't palce it).

Who would ever have though that you and I could be on the same side? But then again, we both disliked TheNobleEU...

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I think most of us (me certianly) have all at somepoint and time (and many still) been entranced by the words of Bill and his aura... For me like you, it was many years back (2001) but for others it is recent.

Do tell.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I'm going to go run to the store to buy some Danish cheese (trancaholic any recommendaitons?)

Well, I usually buy "Go' & Billig" ("Nice & Cheap"), but I think it will he hard to get in the US.

All of this just tells me that these muslims are bunch of fucking lil kids.. the world would be so much better without these feeble minded people living... for fucks sake, rioting over a fucking cartoon?!?!?!?! GROW THE FUCK UP!!! U LIVE IN A MODERN WORLD AND YOU EXPECT EVERY ONE ELSE TO GIVE YOU RESPECT WHEN YOU ARE NOT EVEN ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THE REST OF THE WORLD??? LIKE explaining the rotation of the earth to a 3 years old.....
GO TO HELL ALL YOU RELIGIOUS NUT BAGS!!! YOU ARE THE REASON WHY YOU AND YOUR PEOPLE ARE SO FUCKING IGNORANT!!
jesus fucking christ in a taxi cab!!! Just goes to show at what level these people live at, what fucking idiots and morans.

Fuck understanding the so called "real" reson why these ignorant savages are getting upset. Why should I go down to the level of of someone that still thinks that Allah is all that and a bag of chips?? I am so tired of hearing about the god shit, GOD is DEAD, ALLAH is DEAD. Its almost like still believing in Zeus and all of the gods back from Greek and Roman times...... THEY ARE ALL MYTHS!!!!

If these muslims would pull there head out of thier asses and relize that they have been lied to for all these years, then they could become such a great people. Thats why the west came out of the dark ages, its called EDUCATION, and apparently the muslims that are so pissed off about this rather put thier faith in some MYTH than thier own people.

If I was of arab decent I would be so fucking mad at these stupid fucking dumpster ****s that are making my people look really stupid!!!

If I offended anyone than all I can say is that I am sorry that you are still blind to the truth. THERE IS NOT A GOD, ALLAH OR ANY OTHER HIGHER DIETY OUT THERE. SO DO MANKIND A FAVOR AND STOP WASTING OUR O2 and FOAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and before any of you terrorist symps start in on me check out what I think is the best picture I have ever seen in an american new paper..


I have yet to hear of any riots, threats or any other civil unrest here.... just goes to show you that these muslims are not the only religion getting "bad press" in the world...

it's made the news here too now, not a bite late Apparently the danish consulate in indonesia has been attacked with eggs too

wtf, this small incident became a major headline now.

What you say it 'Making a house out of mole' or something.



And as to the incident, since when is publishing naked pictures of Jesus masturbating is freedom of speech?

Can anyone post a link where I can see what these cartoons were?

Maybe the christians should riot and make threats since Kanye West is pictured as christ on the cover of rolling stone!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Lastely, Occrider, this is not like the Swedish incident for several reasons: 1) It was a government-sponsored art exhibit. 2) Israel's govenor was purposely invited to this government-sponosred art exhibit about the middle east conflict (Imagine if Iran's Mullahs were invited to an exhibit about "tolerance of the world's religions" only to find these caricatures, it would be as equally tasteless and I would have no issues if they would have picked them up and torn them to pieces). 3) Israel's response was shame on your intolerance and incomprehension, not lets boycott all of Sweden. 4) Sweden told Israel's ambassador to leave, they did not pull their embassy out. 5) Israelis and Jews did not congregate to boycott Swedish products. 6) It had nothing to do with religion.

I didn't say it was exactly like the Swedish incident. I said it reminded me of it. The point that I was making is that the outrage over an art exhibit to the point of making a diplomatic row out of it was retarded. But if Israel wanted to, they are within their rights to do so.

An unexpected reaction:

quote:

Nigeria's Christians back Muslims An umbrella Nigerian Christian body based in the majority Muslim north has condemned the publication of cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad. The cartoons first appeared in a Danish newspaper in September and have sparked Muslim protests across the globe. A leading Islamic cleric in Kaduna, which has previously had deadly religious riots, has also spoken about the insensitivity of printing them. He called for calm in the city where security is tight at Friday prayers. Tensions between Christians and Muslims in Nigeria have led to clashes leaving thousands dead in recent years. Beauty contest Rev Joseph John Hayep, the secretary general of the Christian Association of Nigeria, said the publication was totally uncalled for at a time when the world was looking for unity. quote: MUSLIM CONCERNS OVER ART 1989: Iranian spiritual leader Ayatollah Khomeini calls on Muslims to kill British author Salman Rushdie for alleged blasphemy in his book The Satanic Verses 2002: Nigerian journalist Isioma Daniel's article about Prophet and Miss World contestants sparks deadly riots 2004: Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh killed after release of his documentary about violence against Muslim women 2005: London's Tate Britain museum cancels plans to display sculpture by John Latham for fear of offending Muslims after July bombings On Thursday, Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen told Arabic TV he was sorry for any offence caused but insisted his government was not responsible for newspaper articles. Sheikh Ibrahim el-Zakzaky, leader of Nigeria's Muslim Brothers, said the prime minister's words went some way to easing the situation. More than 200 people died in religious clashes in Kaduna over the Miss World beauty contest in 2002. The rioting was triggered by a newspaper article saying that the Prophet Muhammad might have approved of the contest and even chosen to marry one of the contestants. The BBC's Adamu Yusuf in Kaduna says the city is calm and the cartoon row is not being widely discussed. 'No excuse' The cartoons' publication has also drawn strong criticism in other African countries. Senegal's President Abdoulaye Wade has issued a statement condemning the reproduction of the images by European newspaper editors, saying freedom of the press could not be used as an excuse. quote: The press was right to publish the cartoons Gordan Allan, UK The foreign minister of Sudan, where the ruling party has organised a boycott of Danish products, says the decision was "disappointing". "Whatever religion, whether Islam, Christian or Jewish, we would never support anybody who talks negatively about other religions," Foreign Minister Lam Akol said during a visit to London. One of the cartoons shows the Prophet wearing a headdress shaped like a bomb. In another he says paradise is running short of virgins for suicide bombers. Islamic tradition bans depictions of the Prophet or Allah. Mr Rasmussen has said the issue of the cartoons has gone beyond Denmark to become a clash between Western free speech and Islamic taboos. The cartoons originated in Denmark's Jyllands-Posten paper and have been reprinted in newspapers in Germany, Italy, Hungary, the Netherlands and Spain - saying they were exercising their right to free speech. Jyllands-Posten has apologised for causing offence to Muslims, although it maintains it was legal under Danish law to print the cartoons.

Source: BBC

quote:

Originally posted by occrider I didn't say it was exactly like the Swedish incident. I said it reminded me of it. The point that I was making is that the outrage over an art exhibit to the point of making a diplomatic row out of it was retarded. But if Israel wanted to, they are within their rights to do so.

It would be as equally retard as inviting the US Ambassador to an art exhibit where they have seen this presented to them:


It just completely lacks tack and I would not be suprised if the American ambassador reacted accordingly.




Also the WSJ had an article in their paper today about how Europe is getting rowed up about this, the jist of which, 'now the US is not alone in Arab hatered' ... and referencing it to the shitty quaran incident a few months back.

I will most likely be misunderstood but fuck it - here goes...

Radical Islamists need excuse to further their agenda. Hate sends a really strong message. Plus there are buch of people angry at their lives - lack of intersting stuff to do, can't somoke weed, can't drink, can't eat pork, and all the honeyz are covered up head to toe, can't have porn, no Sopranos, no 7-11, my job sucks, etc. - what else is there to do? Sit around and plan how you are going to take over the world. Shit, you may be dumb and illiterate fuck who doesn't even know what a computer is but who gives a shit when you can fire AK-47 like it's nobody's business? Who needs education aside from how to make, strap, and detonate bombs. Oh, the trully educated ones learn how to fly planes into buildings. Now, that's a lot more exciting than shoving a bomb in your ass, in hopes your flesh won't hinder the impact of the explosives.

Sorry, but I can't consider these creatures human or respect their cause and struggle, no matter what. Fuck 'em.

edit:




Notice how the cross is prominently portrayed on this effigy. It's not really about the cartoon - it is about Christians vs. Muslims. Fuck Superbowl, I wanna see this match up!



well, let's get this shindig on!!!!

Agree, violence and brandishing AK 47s have become an entertainment for Muslims hardliners. Its their way to kill time, life is bad without any music, any movies, any dining out, any alchohol, any drugs. They just need an excuse nowdays to protest and storm embassies nowadays. There was nothing that much to get 'that' heated up. But I think media too played a role in heating up things.

Also just like a naked pic of Jesus masturbating will be offending to you, so does that cartoon was offending to them. But I feel Muslims overdo it a lot.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple Also just like a naked pic of Jesus masturbating will be offending to you, so does that cartoon was offending to them. But I feel Muslims overdo it a lot.

I'd LOL... I find the picture of him hanging crucified more offensive and in bad taste than the one where JC is rubbin' one out.

quote:

Originally posted by emc^2 Notice how the cross is prominently portrayed on this effigy.

Yeah, the cross of the Danish flag. Christianity has nothing to do with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus It would be as equally retard as inviting the US Ambassador to an art exhibit where they have seen this presented to them: It just completely lacks tack and I would not be suprised if the American ambassador reacted accordingly.

Yea I would think the American ambassador would be equally as retarded if he reacted in a similar fashion.

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Yeah, the cross of the Danish flag. Christianity has nothing to do with it.

O RLY? Though, how many people in "offended" countries actually realize that???

quote:

Originally posted by emc^2 O RLY?

Please don't use that phrase here. We don't like it very much.

quote:

Though, how many people in "offended" countries actually realize that???

Call me silly, but I'd imagine that to deliberately build an effigy emblazoned with the Danish flag, you'd have to first "realize" what the Danish flag actually looks like?

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Please don't use that phrase here. We don't like it very much.

With this statement Renegade wins the thread ... although how exactly he wins is unexplicable since this isn't a contest. As a matter of fact I don't really know why I would say he wins because it's a really crappy euphamism for "I agree with you". Now a pox upon me for insinuating ftw.

I am shit scared of Muslims nowadays. I am shit scared to visit muslim country nowadays.

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Yeah, the cross of the Danish flag. Christianity has nothing to do with it.

That's what you think...

quote:

"If they want a war of religions, we are ready," Hassan Sharaf, an imam in Nablus, said in his sermon.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c.../i091700S20.DTL

quote:

Originally posted by Purple I am shit scared of Muslims nowadays. I am shit scared to visit muslim country nowadays.

You and me both I dont think anyone could pay me money to go to any musllim dominated country or muslim neighborhoods

quote:

Originally posted by emc^2 That's what you think...

That's what I think? Look, I'll make it simple for you.

This is the Danish flag:



This is the cross from the effigy:



Is there something about this concept that's inherently difficult for you to grasp? They're burning an effigy of the Danish flag, not an effigy of the crucifix. What a certain Imam told said to his congregation in Palestine about the cartoons has nothing to do with what you posted before.

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