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i think the percentage over here is much lower than what you guys are saying. 70% is ridiculous.. maybe 15%.. dunno really.. the fact that i don't touch illegal drugs neither a significant group of my friends might be distorcing my perception

but that is percentage without alcohol! with alcohol it's probably like 85-90%! most people drink like mad here but thankfully there isn't much violence (people associate that to alcohol from what i've gathered from some posts here at TA).. i only remember one fight ever at one party and it was a bit of a smaller one

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You can't really compare 1930s America with today- the amount of binge drinkers and alcohol related violence has increased over time.

I can, and the amount of drinkers and alcohol related violence could very well be attributed to something like population increase, none of which changes anything I said.

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Today, people going out and drinking excessively on a regular basis is more frequent than ever, which is why the government are putting huge energy into cutting down on it.

And they will only succeed in wasting valuable tax dollars.

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People would not abuse alcohol in such large numbers on such a large scale- simply because they wouldn't be able to do it in public like they do now. It'd have to be under wraps. Similarly with cigarettes. It's incredibly easy to get hold of cigarettes anywhere- and it's extensive heavy smoking that kills people. Class As rarely kill people over an extended period of abuse- like you say, it's commonly bad shit or an OD that does it- it's the unpredictability that makes them dangerous. People will wait between fixes, but they can smoke on a regular basis. If smoking was banned then the opportunity to abuse it would fall.

Any examples, or are you just spewing unsupported rhetoric at me.

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Then, if you make something legal, the government will put a huge tax increase on it- the price will rise. The drug-motivated crime would increase because it'd be harder to afford a habit. And because it's easier to get hold of, addicts will try and get sorted more often.

If drugs were legalized, the criminal cartels would still exist. The best way for the government to put them out of business would then be to lower the cost of drugs so people buy from them instead of the criminals.

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The Amsterdam thing could well say more about the difference in culture between the Dutch and Americans than anything else.

But your statement was simply that legal drugs will make people lose restraint. Last time I checked, the Dutch are people, yet they haven't lost restraint. The culture is different, it's a legalized drug culture.

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Originally posted by Radagast Likely much less than it does now, left unregulated and a lot of times laced with stuff that will kill you. Non-sequitur fallacy. Intoxication kills, and lung cancer kills, and alcohol and cigarrettes are legal, but there is no proof that one is in any way causal or related to the other. In fact there is proof that legalizing them might decrease problems, for during the alcohol prohibition period in America, crime as well as alcohol abuse both increased. "Prohibition ended in 1933 because the nation's most influential people, as well as the general public, acknowledged that it had failed. It had increased lawlessness and drinking and aggravated alcohol abuse." - Thomas M. Coffey, author of THE LONG THIRST-PROHIBITION IN AMERICA: 1920-1933 One, if all drugs were regulated by the government, users wouldn't have to worry about drugs laced with cyanide and shit. Well over half of drug related deaths in America are due to highly toxic things being put into the drugs. Legalizing drugs would save more lives than it could possibly take. Two, the billions of dollars currently going into the pockets of drug lords could be going to the government, and subsequently, the improvement of everyone's lives through the increased revenues. Three, the millions(billions) of dollars currently going into trying to prevent drug use could be used for other, more productive things, like drug treatment and rehabilitation. Yet in Amsterdam, where Marijuana is legal, it is used less frequently than in the United States on average. The bottom line is, trying to actively prevent drug use has never worked and will never work. America can't even keep its own prison inmates from using illegal drugs, much less the general public. "The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be... Try to make people moral, and you lay the groundwork for vice." - Lao-tsu "Vices are simply the errors which a man makes in search after his own happiness. In vices, the very essence of crime--that is, the design to injure the person or property of another--is wanting." - Lysander Spooner

Top class fucking post man!

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Originally posted by Radagast I can, and the amount of drinkers and alcohol related violence could very well be attributed to something like population increase, none of which changes anything I said.

It isn't the amount of drinkers but the percentage of people who do drink who are taking it to extremes. It's a huge problem in this country, well publicised as getting worse.

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And they will only succeed in wasting valuable tax dollars.

You're looking at this with too much of a statistical head. I've gone out in town and seen the changes- seen barstaff having to refuse people they wouldn't normally, seen police crawling through the streets and following under-age drinkers or people who have had too much. It does work, and make references to 70 year old examples all you like, but I can go out on a Friday night and watch the restriction of alcohol cut down on binge drinking.

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Any examples, or are you just spewing unsupported rhetoric at me.

Any examples of what? Let a person smoke all they like. Let another person only smoke in their own home, when they aren't at work or socailising. Watch which one lives longer. I don't have any statistics, but it's logical. It's how people quit, or limit themselves. The less opportunity you have to abuse something, the less you can do it. And people who smoke do not go easy because they have the opportunity- many people take it too far, because they become reliant on the nicotine.

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If drugs were legalized, the criminal cartels would still exist. The best way for the government to put them out of business would then be to lower the cost of drugs so people buy from them instead of the criminals.

Then what reason do they have to legalise it? Lowering the price means they don't make as much profit. They'd still have to deal with increased crime.

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But your statement was simply that legal drugs will make people lose restraint. Last time I checked, the Dutch are people, yet they haven't lost restraint. The culture is different, it's a legalized drug culture.

Yes, but it's not a fair test or a balanced proof of anything. If you were comparing the numbers to the amount of weed smoked in Amsterdam if it was illegal, then you're statistics would mean something. However, you're comparing the habits of one nation with that of a totally different one. So it isn't a reliable proof of anything.

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Originally posted by allen i am not ashamed to tell you that i am a drug user and its not that i am not complete or i need something extra... youre missing out on the big picture here... I SAID NO TO DRUGS...... BUT THEY JUST WOULDNT LISTEN

That would imply you are psychologically addicted I would put it as adding an extra dimension to a party from time to time without feeling a NEED to

But for the narrow-minded peeps who drink and smoke to enjoy the party and then make a post about "drug" users NEEDING to feel complete? Stop being so hypocritical.

Its not because somebody drinks alcohol they are an alcoholic no? Exactly. Moderation is the key. So I think its quite hypocritical to categorise people as drug abusers when they take a pill once in a while. And calling it addicted is quite hypocritical too. Are you addicted to alcohol because you like to drink it when you go out? Are you addicted to sex because you would never want to give it up? Exactly.

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Originally posted by thoughtlessjex Personally, I'd rather enjoy mild euphoria for the rest of my life than experience extreme ecstacy for punctuated periods over a few years before it's impossible for me to even be happy because my serotonin receptors are gone. There are some things that aren't worth it, in my opinion. Some have. They started making IDM. What does that tell you?

Again here, education and research is the key Read up on 5HTP, R+ALA, etc And of course moderation, if you start pillaging 10 pills a Friday and another 10 on Saturday and on and on its not a good thing. As I said before, there is use and abuse.



Its also quite hard to generalise drug usage, in places in UK, Ibiza, some parties in Holland and Belgium usage may easily be 80+ %


And to the peeps who know nothing (or not much) about the substances they refer to as drugs, inform and educate yourself first instead of posting comments here like drugs are bad, why do people take them. Its like virgins talking about sex.

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Originally posted by orl i didnt get 1 thing m8 u mean ,if they were legal , pills would be weaker?...why?

if the government controlled what went into drugs i dont think they would make uber strength pills like u can get of some dealer instead they will make them really weak.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Then, if you make something legal, the government will put a huge tax increase on it- the price will rise. The drug-motivated crime would increase because it'd be harder to afford a habit. And because it's easier to get hold of, addicts will try and get sorted more often.

i actually think that prices of drugs would go down the government could get rid of all drug crime just by lowering the prices. It wouldnt make sense to put prices up cose people would try and find the drugs cheaper from dealers which would defeat the whole purpose of legalising the drugs in the first place.

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Originally posted by sleepydragon if the government controlled what went into drugs i dont think they would make uber strength pills like u can get of some dealer instead they will make them really weak.

If xtc was legalized and the government allowed pharmaceutical companies to commercialise it then I'm sure they would have to specify how many milligrams of mdma was in your pill. Of course it is highly unlikely that they will make pills with 120mg+ mdma in them but if they are 60mg then depending on what you need you can easily dose.

And before any type of legalization can happen there has to be a change in mentality regarding drug usage, starting with the government and the media.

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Originally posted by sleepydragon if the government controlled what went into drugs i dont think they would make uber strength pills like u can get of some dealer instead they will make them really weak.

i see what u mean..
but i prefer to say,pills will have a better dosage.a dosage that would respect the treshold.

Yea... do drugs... then this happens.



*shakes head* too much of that "M-D-M-A" got to this one

if the goverment legalised extacy i think that the percentage of non-pure pills would decrease on huge basis but then again... the prices might go up. but what i suggest is pill testers at clubs or gigs just like in amsterdam... they have a dude to test the purity of the pill. well i think if they do this every where no one would hesitate to test his/her pill due to the fact that there's nothing to loose

@synthesia: well i was just bieng sarcastic... actually i am not addicted to it but i do it occasionally... i have a job and i cant take the risk of doing it frequently due to its long term side effects.

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Originally posted by allen @synthesia: well i was just bieng sarcastic... actually i am not addicted to it but i do it occasionally... i have a job and i cant take the risk of doing it frequently due to its long term side effects.

I know mate What I said was an example directed at the people who don't use x and don't know anything about it as very often one would be categorised as NEEDING x to enjoy a party, sadly enough.

Tip, read up on 5-HTP and R+ Alpha Lipoic Acid + Vitamin C for harm reduction (according to some sources 100% damage reduction )

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Originally posted by Synthesia Tip, read up on 5-HTP and R+ Alpha Lipoic Acid + Vitamin C for harm reduction (according to some sources 100% damage reduction )

definitly!..it reduces mdma's neurotoxicity
as for 5-htp, eating banana would do.(in case u dont wanna "pop" 5-htp pills )

Yeps, banana, turkey, yoghurts...

lol i always used to eat a bananna when i got in from a night out its got a chemical in it that helps get serotonin back quicker isnt chocalate meant to be good for u aswell?

chocolate might

not taking drugs helps too

the great thing is when it comes to drugs i have great morals, meaning also i dont take them and i do it for the best of my friends around me.
also i was dancing for like 5hrs stright and this really nice guy who came up to me (took E at midnight said it wore off and said it did shit after that) said are you on drugs and i said no im pure!

the really cool thing that is rewarding to me is people who say this to me (X3) is they like in away look at me like as if im there GOD or something or that they really think im awsome.
shows them that they can go without drugs i think thats why. the 3
times that happen they wanted to talk for like an hour and i harldy even know them. all we talked was how drugs are not that good, but you know i said i still respect people wheither they take it or not. just take care though and be responsable.

i think really you cant take drugs away from the scene everyone is different now matter how frequently you tell them.

but drugs do not have any place for me in listening or dancing to music, music is my pure drug!

cheers mattz

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Originally posted by mzvirbulis the really cool thing that is rewarding to me is people who say this to me (X3) is they like in away look at me like as if im there GOD or something or that they really think im awsome.

That happens to me a fair bit too (probably once a night). I don't get it, they seem to really respect you for not taking E while they are sitting there rolling their heads off

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Originally posted by mzvirbulis the great thing is when it comes to drugs i have great morals, meaning also i dont take them and i do it for the best of my friends around me. also i was dancing for like 5hrs stright and this really nice guy who came up to me (took E at midnight said it wore off and said it did shit after that) said are you on drugs and i said no im pure! the really cool thing that is rewarding to me is people who say this to me (X3) is they like in away look at me like as if im there GOD or something or that they really think im awsome. shows them that they can go without drugs i think thats why. the 3 times that happen they wanted to talk for like an hour and i harldy even know them. all we talked was how drugs are not that good, but you know i said i still respect people wheither they take it or not. just take care though and be responsable. i think really you cant take drugs away from the scene everyone is different now matter how frequently you tell them. but drugs do not have any place in listening or dancing to music, music is my pure drug!

Yeah that's what drugged out people often do when they meet unknown non-users, tell them that drugs aren't all that and that they just use it like once a year. If someone needs a non-user to show them they can go without drugs they need to get their head checked, because that's just bs.

And you are wrong about drugs not having any place in listening or dancing to music. (disregard if you we're talking about it for you personally, the sentence was a little unclear)

Btw; Do you mean that great morals when it comes to drugs is not doing them? And you do it for the best of your friends around you?

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Originally posted by mzvirbulis the great thing is when it comes to drugs i have great morals, meaning also i dont take them and i do it for the best of my friends around me. also i was dancing for like 5hrs stright and this really nice guy who came up to me (took E at midnight said it wore off and said it did shit after that) said are you on drugs and i said no im pure! the really cool thing that is rewarding to me is people who say this to me (X3) is they like in away look at me like as if im there GOD or something or that they really think im awsome. shows them that they can go without drugs i think thats why. the 3 times that happen they wanted to talk for like an hour and i harldy even know them. all we talked was how drugs are not that good, but you know i said i still respect people wheither they take it or not. just take care though and be responsable. i think really you cant take drugs away from the scene everyone is different now matter how frequently you tell them. but drugs do not have any place in listening or dancing to music, music is my pure drug! cheers mattz

I think that's just because some people starting NEEDING drugs to enjoy themselves but what you say is a very incorrect generalisation. About the congratulating you for not using drugs I think that will be a vast minority (perhaps those who resort to needing to take all sorts of drug cocktails and can't enjoy themselves sober anymore).

Agree with Redd here. I know tonnes of people who take E occasionally yet still experience many nights completely sober and also get looks at them by peeps who think they're on E.

And about the morality issue...if your friendship is based on the right or wrong judgement whether you choose to take a drug occasionally or not then I think this shows more about the quality of the friendship than a choice to use (certain) drugs in the first place. But its understandable in the general public when the media always has to pick out the most wasted junkies...sadly enough.

dr00gs and music went hand in hand since the beginning of time. Even our ancestors were known to mix the two. Humans are always looking for altered conscience experience. The question is to what extent and extreme it is taken. I don't have a problem with someone's choice of what they do with their body (and brain), as long as it does not impact me or others. I have a problem with folks who get wasted and then chose to drive home. Or morons who OD in the club. Or people who get wasted and then figure you're their best mate and start hugging you and sweating all over you coz they think just because they are off their t!ts, so are you.

I personally find some of these "aliens" funny. all the gourning faces are fun to look at and I definitely love looking at x-ers making out. Hey, if you are blitzed enough to make out in public don't expect me to look the other way. If you're fingering your gurl, I'll be right there, looking for the best vantage point. Don't like it??? Get a room. Oh, and don't be mad if I chose to sneak in with my camera to take a picture - you know, a little memento. cool?

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Originally posted by Floorfiller i think your estimate of 5-10% is waaaay too low.

i didnt make it past the first reply to see what i wanted to see

+10000

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Originally posted by Redd Btw; Do you mean that great morals when it comes to drugs is not doing them? And you do it for the best of your friends around you?

NO! i meant that i have had an expeirence with drugs when a guy gave me E as a present at a night but i stayed true to myself (flush it down), my friends told that i should have given it to them or made money out of it. but i had to think outside the picture what could of happened whilst we were having a great time on our schoolies holiday.

as i said i have respect for people who take drugs but for me it doesnt interest me.

ok guys... any one familiar with ways to over come the comedowns other than thc ofcorse?

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Originally posted by allen ok guys... any one familiar with ways to over come the comedowns other than thc ofcorse?

i have a personnal technique...which can be used to enhance thc..but ,for me it works even without Thc( i guess lucky me )

Breath 4times , deeply , and quickly . and when y exhale , make sure y do so with ur adbominal muscles..repeat as much as necessary..there's no OD
in fact this breathing process is used in some kind of meditation in order to control ur breathing....
si , it's kind of a personnal adaptation (with much respect to meditation of course )

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