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If we let them build nuclear weapons we give their current leader's arguements actual legitimacy and thats what scares the hell out of everybody.
If only he actually talked like a rational, sane being, the world wouldn't be so anxious.
Make no doubt about it, if Saddam had access to such weapons he probably would have used them.
How can I substantiate you ask? Good question, just look at what Saddam did to Kuwait when he was forced by the World to leave not to mention the terror and mass graves that are still being found in Iraq to this day.
Do we really want to deal with another extremist/radical with nuclear capabilities this time?
There a lot of people here complaining about the current situation, now try and image that situation with a real nuclear threat behind it.
How the hell will you sleep at night?!?
I for one wouldn't sleep tight at all...

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r If we let them build nuclear weapons we give their current leader's arguements actual legitimacy and thats what scares the hell out of everybody.

They are not going to attack anyone,how many times do we have to tell you that?

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Make no doubt about it, if Saddam had access to such weapons he probably would have used them.

He had chemical weapons and he used it and Americans knew about it abd gave it to him and didnt try to stop him.why is that?

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How can I substantiate you ask? Good question, just look at what Saddam did to Kuwait when he was forced by the World to leave not to mention the terror and mass graves that are still being found in Iraq to this day.

Saddam this saddam that.blah blah blah

Iran is no Iraq,they have no intensions to invade any country unlike the U.S were invasion is the only solution to their problems.

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Do we really want to deal with another extremist/radical with nuclear capabilities this time? There a lot of people here complaining about the current situation, now try and image that situation with a real nuclear threat behind it.

Good point,so why dont we try to get rid of the nukes all at once?why pick and choose who can or cant have them?

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How the hell will you sleep at night?!? I for one wouldn't sleep tight at all...

How can you sleep at night right now with all these other countries with nukes aimed at eachother?that doesnt scare you but somehow Iran does?

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer They are not going to attack anyone,how many times do we have to tell you that?

And you can absolutely guarantee that huh?
scuse me if let the rest of the world decide that (if he doen't seal his own fate which he appears to have no problem doing).

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He had chemical weapons and he used it and Americans knew about it abd gave it to him and didnt try to stop him.why is that?

They had no idea that would turn around and use it on his own people!!! How the hell were they supposed to know that???

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Saddam this saddam that.blah blah blah Iran is no Iraq,they have no intensions to invade any country unlike the U.S were invasion is the only solution to their problems.

You are right, Saddam and Iran had no love for each other because Saddam was afraid the Islamic Revolution would spill into his own country. He was afraid for his regime and that's why they went to war. Saddam crushed anything that would look like a rebellion for the sake of himself.
Ever since the Shah's fall in Iran, they've become the black sheep of the Islamic world who have no interest in joining the rest of the world, comfortable in keeping their women and culture under backward theocratic control.
They showed no interest in talking to us even in legitimacy, why should they be trusted?

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Good point,so why dont we try to get rid of the nukes all at once?why pick and choose who can or cant have them? How can you sleep at night right now with all these other countries with nukes aimed at eachother?that doesnt scare you but somehow Iran does?

Becuase it's already been proven with the Cuban missle crisis that those with nuclear weapons are actually responsible.
We were literally seconds from you and me talking through tin cans at this moment.
Point out Japan all you want, we were in a World War at the time and if that wasn't done, millions more lives would have been lost than were without that decisive strike.
However, everybody knew exactly after Hiroshima and Nagasaki what nuclear war ment and no one ever wants to repeat it.
Unless countries are upfront and actually want to work with others their motives for nuclear capability are going to come under question from the world stage.
Trust is earned, not given.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Thats a good point

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Originally posted by Trancer-X Sure, we know that the Iraqi Kurds were gassed in Halabja on March 16th, 1988 - but I wonder how many people actually realize that the Kurds weren't Saddam's "own people" much more than the American Indian's were the North American colonists "own people." Also, the fact that they were caught in the crossfire between Iran and Iraq (a situation that my country had actively promoted through it's ongoing arms and chemical sales to both sides) is also conveniently overlooked. http://www.informationclearinghouse...article1148.htm

Were they are or they not within the borders of Iraq?

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r They had no idea that would turn around and use it on his own people!!! How the hell were they supposed to know that???

Sure, we know that the Iraqi Kurds were gassed in Halabja on March 16th, 1988 - but I wonder how many people actually realize that the Kurds weren't Saddam's "own people" much more than the American Indian's were the North American colonists "own people." Also, the fact that they were caught in the crossfire between Iran and Iraq (a situation that my country had more or less actively promoted through it's ongoing arms and chemical sales to both sides - along with the satellite photo reconnaissance given to Iraq via our NRO) is also conveniently overlooked.


http://www.informationclearinghouse...article1148.htm

http://www.ccmep.org/2002_articles/...cers_say_us.htm

http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/08.19B.reagan.iraq.htm

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The U.S. helped this man to power and said nothing while he gassed us," sneered Shamal Khalaf, 34, a taxi driver. "And they expect us to applaud when they pull him down again? http://www.kurdmedia.com/news.asp?id=5211

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/index.htm

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June, 1992. Ted Kopple of ABC Nightline reports: It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush Sr., operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980's, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into [an aggressive power].

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r If we let them build nuclear weapons we give their current leader's arguements actual legitimacy and thats what scares the hell out of everybody. If only he actually talked like a rational, sane being, the world wouldn't be so anxious. Make no doubt about it, if Saddam had access to such weapons he probably would have used them. How can I substantiate you ask? Good question, just look at what Saddam did to Kuwait when he was forced by the World to leave not to mention the terror and mass graves that are still being found in Iraq to this day. Do we really want to deal with another extremist/radical with nuclear capabilities this time? There a lot of people here complaining about the current situation, now try and image that situation with a real nuclear threat behind it. How the hell will you sleep at night?!? I for one wouldn't sleep tight at all...

When has the iranian government invaded a nation since the mullahs took power in 1979? What REAL threats did other nations face??? Saddam caused a war with IRan... the US invaded iraq, Israel INVADED lebanon...the arabs invaded Israel...

Now you tell me this.. if your country was surrounded by nations that have been bullied and invaded by the same super powers in the world.. would you just sit there and not protect yourself???

Do you think that memebers odf the israeli knesset havent proclaimed their desire to destroy iran?

All his talk is rhetoric and he wants to make a name for himself internationally ...

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Originally posted by Cyrus King When has the iranian government invaded a nation since the mullahs took power in 1979? What REAL threats did other nations face??? Saddam caused a war with IRan... the US invaded iraq, Israel INVADED lebanon...the arabs invaded Israel... Now you tell me this.. if your country was surrounded by nations that have been bullied and invaded by the same super powers in the world.. would you just sit there and not protect yourself??? Do you think that memebers odf the israeli knesset havent proclaimed their desire to destroy iran? All his talk is rhetoric and he wants to make a name for himself internationally ...

+1

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Originally posted by Cyrus King All his talk is rhetoric and he wants to make a name for himself internationally ...

Better ways to do it than to deny the holocaust ever happened, and say Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth.

That is only going to issolate the country and turn everyone against any chance of economic development for Iran.
if Iran was to call on Palestine and israel to do everything they can for peace, and try and influence those is various political circles to achieve this outcome, the US UK and EU would do more to help Iran join the world forums.
well maybe not so much the US, but atleast they would have to drop the whole 'evil' moniker Bush chucked up.

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Originally posted by skot_e Better ways to do it than to deny the holocaust ever happened, and say Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth. That is only going to issolate the country and turn everyone against any chance of economic development for Iran. if Iran was to call on Palestine and israel to do everything they can for peace, and try and influence those is various political circles to achieve this outcome, the US UK and EU would do more to help Iran join the world forums. well maybe not so much the US, but atleast they would have to drop the whole 'evil' moniker Bush chucked up.

Doyou honestly think this guy gives a flying fuck what ANYONE outside Iran thinks of him? Do you think he cares about what people in florida think about this, or france?? He is doing it so he can be taken seriosuly within his own nation. He was the mayor of tehran, and now the president of the nation.

Sure he has caused international attention, but MANY people deny this halocaust. MANY.

Its all rhetoric like i said.. and more attention is given to him becuase the Americans need to squeeze him of every vile word he says to justify some form of hegemonic agenda to be pushed through.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Sure he has caused international attention, but MANY people deny this halocaust. MANY.

I think what you meant to say is that standards accounts are exagerated. We all know it happened. Plus, Hitler wanted to get rid of all "undersirables," not just the Jews.

All of this is making a very important assumption...

That Iran's nuclear programs are intedned to make nuclear weapons, not for civilian use.

I would not support any military action against Iran until we knew damn sure that Iran planned to make nuclear weapons. We need to be extra careful about what action we take against Middle Eastern states and the people of London and Madrid will testify to that...

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z I think what you meant to say is that standards accounts are exagerated. We all know it happened. Plus, Hitler wanted to get rid of all "undersirables," not just the Jews.

Yes it did happened but I think the figures are highly over-exaggerated. And Iran's president's reference was only to this figure and not whether the Holocaust happened or not.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King All his talk is rhetoric and he wants to make a name for himself internationally ... Doyou honestly think this guy gives a flying fuck what ANYONE outside Iran thinks of him?

So which one is it?
Denying the holocaust is not what has brought all this to the fore. I am well aware of the fact many deny this ever happend. i know a German who lived there at the time before immigrating to Australia who dennies it happend. (actually I have suspiscions about whether or not he was SS).

Does anyone else find it ironic (and fitting) that Israel's President and (Acting) Prime Minister were both born in Iran?

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Its all rhetoric like i said.. and more attention is given to him becuase the Americans need to squeeze him of every vile word he says to justify some form of hegemonic agenda to be pushed through.

Rhetoric - Language that is elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous.

Rhetoric????
The guy is on public record wanting Isreal blown off the map and is have a FUCKING VOTE regarding the holocaust's existance!!!!!????
HELLO??? MCFLY???!!!!

Millions of lives were lost, this guy thinks it never happened and you want to defend him?? Wow... you're more lost than I thought...

If Iran was even anywhere near sincere I might be inclined to actually agree with you Cyrus but this man is doesn't want to play ball with ANYBODY.

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Print _Email_ Last Update: Tuesday, January 24, 2006. 7:08pm (AEDT) Bank, Govt targeted in Iranian bombings Bombs have exploded in a bank and government building in the southern Iranian city of Ahvaz, killing four people, according to state media. State television put the number killed at four and police spokesman Mehdi Ahmadi said the toll was higher than two. Ahvaz, and the surrounding province of Khuzestan, is a scene of bitter struggles between Iranian authorities and the Islamic Republic's Arab minority. Iranian authorities are particularly sensitive about protests and discontent in Khuzestan because the region sits on most of the Islamic Republic's crude reserves, the second biggest in the world. The region has been tense since April, when five people died in anti-government protests sparked by rumours the Government was considering relocating more non-Arabs to Khuzestan to water down Arab influence there. Seven people were killed in a bombing in June and six more in a blast in October. -Reuters

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Originally posted by occrider Does anyone else find it ironic (and fitting) that Israel's President and (Acting) Prime Minister were both born in Iran?

No

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Originally posted by gouuryella No

What a shame. I always get a kick out of groups that are diametrically opposed to one another yet are fundamentally similar.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Rhetoric - Language that is elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous. Rhetoric???? The guy is on public record wanting Isreal blown off the map and is have a FUCKING VOTE regarding the holocaust's existance!!!!!???? HELLO??? MCFLY???!!!!

MANY PEOPLE DENY THE HALOCAUST... its anti-semetic rhetoric. The WHOLE middle east hates israel and wishes to see its destruction... BUT IT CANNOT DESTROY IT! Any country in the middle east well knows detonating a nuke would lead to their own demise. Why would Irans president blow a bomb in israel and sit back to watch the world destroy his own nation??? The islamic world has always despised israel. THese are just words.

Like i said before.. DO YOU NOT THINK THERE ARE AMERICAN POLITICIANS AND ISRAELI POLITICIANS WISHING FOR IRAN TO BE WIPED OFF THE MAP??

Get real buddy. Stop absorbing the overstaurated broatcasts of ahmadinejad's comments.

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Millions of lives were lost, this guy thinks it never happened and you want to defend him?? Wow... you're more lost than I thought...

Where do i defend him about denying the halocaust? I defend the nations government in making nukes so they are not bullied and occupied in the future by modern colonialists invading nations through fear mongering. I dont defend the nation in making nukes to USE them. Pakistan can NEVER be invaded. North Korea can NEVER be attacked anymore. Why???? becuase they are PROTECTED by their own weapons. In a perfect world.. i would like to see the mullahs die and rot and no nation to have nukes.. however,,, greed exists in reality and thats what drives these US lead invasions.

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If Iran was even anywhere near sincere I might be inclined to actually agree with you Cyrus but this man is doesn't want to play ball with ANYBODY.

Wait a minute. You have no trust for this man becuase of his disgusting comments. Yet Bush goes into IRaq promising to show proof that WMD's exist and have yet to be found.. yet you still trust what this administration is doing?

How many countries has the US invaded??

How many coutnries has IRan invaded?

Who is more of a world threat?

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Originally posted by occrider Does anyone else find it ironic (and fitting) that Israel's President and (Acting) Prime Minister were both born in Iran?

i find it ironic.. and kinda funny

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Originally posted by occrider Does anyone else find it ironic (and fitting) that Israel's President and (Acting) Prime Minister were both born in Iran?

Not at all ironic.

In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way
Franklin Delano Roosevelt

I seriously doubt Israely politicians would be wishing for Iran to be wiped of the map if they weren't start shit with them . Also, the numbskulls who defend Iran's right to have nuclear weapons for defense also justify Israel and the U.S. and Europe and the U.N. having their own missiles ready to "wipe Iran of the map"...not to mention oil

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Originally posted by Lepanto I seriously doubt Israely politicians would be wishing for Iran to be wiped of the map if they weren't start shit with them . Also, the numbskulls who defend Iran's right to have nuclear weapons for defense also justify Israel and the U.S. and Europe and the U.N. having their own missiles ready to "wipe Iran of the map"...not to mention oil

Oh yes... the israeli rigth wing hawks are all angels and wish nothing but the best for the arabs and the people who hate them and the only devils are the people in the Iranian government.


Zionists are just as capable of making vile comments like Ahmadinejad.

Get real buddy. You are diluted.

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