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For those at the top, DJing is a job, NOT a hobby. No matter what they say, it boils down to making money, and Tijs has done that well. He's enjoying the popularity while it lasts and why not? He's worked hard to get there, let him have all the fan adoration he can get. He's not a crap DJ, he's not amazing either. I liked TIC 2 DVD alot. There was everything a DJ should be, good mixing, setlist and interaction with audience. Speaking from a musical point of view, Tijs sets have direction and are fluent. I won't not listen to a DJ simply because he's 'sold out' and doesn't play unknown tracks anymore.

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Originally posted by Clovis86 Well I watched that show from the side, and I thought it was one of the worst DJ sets I had ever heard. What was supposed to be "6 hours extended set" was tijs pulling off maybe 3 good transitions, 4 horrible ones, and then a 15 minute break after every 45 minutes of straight DJing. The track selection was all right, but I didnt hear anything really interesting, mostly the normal shit, although he did play The Drill - The Drill, but thats nothing exciting really. The production was cool, and the atmosphere was crazy, but it was really mostly hype. Also the number of EDM n00bs rolling off their face and just eating up any of the shit he spun was disconcerting to say the least...

like i said, he's not the best dj in the world. but i gotta give him credit for knowing what songs to play at the right time. and he didnt trainwreck THAT BAD did he? maybe i was just really fucked up. regardless, i thought it was a great set.

the drill - the drill

Tiesto needs to grow some balls. He's letting pressure control him, instead of other way around. If he's that popular, why isn't he influencing the change? It's not like he's lacking for money.

If he wants to play some tunes by an unknown but talented producer, fine. Promote that producer's stuff. Don't be a pussy and let top40 clubbers dictate his tracklist.

If he feels that he should play his overplayed productions, why not play some of the remixes? Did he ever play Max Walder or Montana edit of Traffic? Not that I recall. Mark Norman remix of Love Comes Again? Phynn remix of Adagio for Strings?

If he still loves the music, well, he'd learn to not let it go down the crappers.

Mind you, after that Heineken hall set, he seems to be trying to change (or is that due to PvD taking over?) but FFS. Grow some balls.

To whom ever asked, I got into the whole EDM scene back in 2001.

I totally understand what everyone is saying. I can see why some people hate him. You have a right too. You also have a right to love the guy. This however, is not the point of the thread. Tiesto is owned right now. When you have gotten as big as he has and you have your own concert series going around. Do you really think his management is cool with him playing none of his major productions? Honestly, I think a lot of what Tiesto plays is out of his control. I dont know many people into the EDM scene here in Pittsburgh (cause there really isnt one). Yet, I know that Tiesto is a good DJ to let my friends listen too because his stuff is so commercial and mainstream. Because of this, the majority of the audience will be pissed if he doesnt throw down some of his major productions. Someone on here already mentioned that the crowd seemed bored with the not-so-commercial tracks he was playing. He has to make money, he is under pressure by a lot of people to perform and make money. At a Tiesto concert, the MAJORITY of the people there will not be as familiar with Trance as we all are. Therefore, for those that have been in the scene for a long time.....i can understand why you dont like him anymore. I can also understand why you are annoyed with people who think Tiesto is God. But to be blunt about it, how can you not understand the position that the man has been put in? The reason several other DJ's on here are liked are because they aren't as big. There isnt as much pressure on them to make money. They have more freedom. My point is this, I am just sick of people bashing the guy when personally I think the shit he is playing is outside of his control. And I have noticed a trend that a lot of people feel the need to bash Tiesto in order to "fit-in" on this message board and other message board. Who gives a damn?

And to whoever tried to make it sounds like I didnt know shit about PVD. Yes, I am well aware that he blew up in 2005.

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Originally posted by EvilTree Tiesto needs to grow some balls. He's letting pressure control him, instead of other way around. If he's that popular, why isn't he influencing the change? It's not like he's lacking for money. If he wants to play some tunes by an unknown but talented producer, fine. Promote that producer's stuff. Don't be a pussy and let top40 clubbers dictate his tracklist. If he feels that he should play his overplayed productions, why not play some of the remixes? Did he ever play Max Walder or Montana edit of Traffic? Not that I recall. Mark Norman remix of Love Comes Again? Phynn remix of Adagio for Strings? If he still loves the music, well, he'd learn to not let it go down the crappers. Mind you, after that Heineken hall set, he seems to be trying to change (or is that due to PvD taking over?) but FFS. Grow some balls.

I agree with you, but yes, he played all of those remixes, multiple times

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Originally posted by EvilTree If he wants to play some tunes by an unknown but talented producer, fine. Promote that producer's stuff. Don't be a pussy and let top40 clubbers dictate his tracklist.

Thats kind of missing the point there.

He's a top DJ - he gets handed new shit all the time, i agree he is guilty on accounts of sticking to a bunch of producers that he knows works - Andy Moor, A&B etc...

But beyond the more obvious playlisted items you have artists like Ekon, Progression, who're certainly making the kind of trance music that stands out from the drab and dreary.
Another topic has been raging in numerous threads recently about the status of trance music since the shift from hardware to software. While Tiesto's overall performance cannot be directly linked to that change, its obviously limited the amount of 'TRANCE' tunes he finds interesting or exciting enough to spin.

I believe thats the reason you see the same 'TRANCE' tunes in the playlist month to month, maybe on rotation for 4-6 months at a time. Simply because there is nothing there to swap them with. A good example here would be Scott Mac - Damager. He's played it since June, and its 100% a bomb of a track. He's going to carry on playing it in 2006 because there is just nothing out there to replace it with in terms of effective tech-trance to move from prog-trance to the harder stuff.

Its why ASOT has gone to shit. Because by definition that show is extremely limited to that style. Whereas over a longer set Tijs can include the newer tunes in his playlist (teh OMG he is playing house tunes!) over a shorter TIC themed set where he'll play 4 hours, its just not possible to include them.

To say its gotten worse or any different to previous years i think is also rubbish... as amongst the "hits" of the day, he would spin a fair few pitched up proggy tunes, or some unknown dutch tech-shit thing. Something like Paco Lesotto from this year. He has supported X Trax label since godknows when.

Despite the above arguments that he actually IS careful in his track selection, the fact he is in the public eye performing at stadia in short "circus" performances with the obvious tunes and artist productions - means that its very easy for people like yourself to completely pigeonhole his style as CHEESE and to believe he is lazy.

I think he is lazy... but in a totally different way....

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Originally posted by KeSs Tiesto is owned right now. When you have gotten as big as he has and you have your own concert series going around. Do you really think his management is cool with him playing none of his major productions? Honestly, I think a lot of what Tiesto plays is out of his control.

While i can't agree on the rest of your post - this makes a lot of sense. Maybe not even tunes-wise, but certainly on a level that he has never taken an interest to the business side of DJing.

So if he is lazy of anything, its just standing by and watch this whole hype/popularity thing get way too far out of hand.

What has been different the past couple of months - there has been a slowing down, and i think that will continue this year.

All the above though is more politics from within his own small clique, and shouldn't really affect the DJs performance. Something which has never been without flaws - but a lot more obvious if they (promoters and management) are going to place him on that pedastall for the world to see.

This is just another of the never ending pro/con Tiesto threads. Obviously, a whole lot of people like him (just look at the TA top 100 DJ's list). Honestly, at the end of the day, that is all that really matters. He's popular, for reasons you do or don't agree with with. Can you honestly say that your fav. DJ, whomever it may be, wouldn't recieve the same criticisms for being number 1 on the DJ mag list? Is a DJ supposed to sacrifice his popularity and return to the lower rankings from where he/she came? Of course not. It's a business. Tiesto's been on top for 3 years, but it's great that PVD took over. Change is good.


And as a side note, for those who say Tiesto is lacking in skill, ability and set flow, you really need to check out his latest sets from late 2005 and into this year. It's really great stuff.

Guys this is getting tiring, seriously I'm not going to read any of the replies here since I'm sure they will have been written 100 times before. If you don't like Tiesto, fine, that is your fully free choice and opinion for whatever reason you like, if you do like him, good for you (and no I'm not being sarcastic). As with all people and dj's they have plus points and minus points. For some the plus outweigh the minus, for others vice versa, and some only see plus or only minus.

Looking at it objectively I think he's done quite a bit for trance around the world, perhaps increased trance popularity in some places it wasn't yet popular in before, and decreased it in places where the trance scene was already quite alive but diverted a lot of attention to Tiesto only instead of the rest of the community and other dj's. Anyways don't know how interesting it is to theorise about this on a global scale but either you like him or you don't.

But constantly bashing people who have a different opinions towards yourself is a lack of respect for each other and is doing the trance scene much more harm. Trance is what brought this community and the local sub-communities together as well as the people and parties outside of here. Let's focus on the unity and love of trance instead of constantly trying to sub-categorise and divide people in it.


If you'd be bashing 99% of the commerical hiphop and rnb out there that is a totally different story and I'd say go for it - get rid of that disgusting vulgar plague

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Originally posted by Synthesia Guys this is getting tiring, seriously I'm not going to read any of the replies here since I'm sure they will have been written 100 times before. If you don't like Tiesto, fine, that is your fully free choice and opinion for whatever reason you like, if you do like him, good for you (and no I'm not being sarcastic). As with all people and dj's they have plus points and minus points. For some the plus outweigh the minus, for others vice versa, and some only see plus or only minus. Looking at it objectively I think he's done quite a bit for trance around the world, perhaps increased trance popularity in some places it wasn't yet popular in before, and decreased it in places where the trance scene was already quite alive but diverted a lot of attention to Tiesto only instead of the rest of the community and other dj's. Anyways don't know how interesting it is to theorise about this on a global scale but either you like him or you don't. But constantly bashing people who have a different opinions towards yourself is a lack of respect for each other and is doing the trance scene much more harm. Trance is what brought this community and the local sub-communities together as well as the people and parties outside of here. Let's focus on the unity and love of trance instead of constantly trying to sub-categorise and divide people in it. If you'd be bashing 99% of the commerical hiphop and rnb out there that is a totally different story and I'd say go for it - get rid of that disgusting vulgar plague

Perhaps you should give this thread a chance. It has more informative & intelligent discussion about the pitfalls of super-star-dj-dom than any of the other bashing threads.

The thread has also not been trolled by the usual suspects just picking fun or hatred on the people supporting Tiesto.

I'd say we were doing quite well till you guys (posters registering 2004+) decided to add your weight to the argument without actually bothering to read first.

Well in that case I'll take your word for it and have a read over, but lets mind the personal attacks in here shall we . Does 2004+ registration have anything to do with this discussion? Lets not stigmatise.

And I'll say it again, lets try focus on the unity in the trance scene rather than constantly creating divisions in the community based on opinions of others which might happen to disagree with those of yourself...ok ok...I'll give this thread a chance now...

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Originally posted by Phil raa i once started a thread "tiesto is god" it got deleted.

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Originally posted by MichaelBoogerd! 3, the mixing... is actually improving (YES CLOVIS!) since LA... at least he has found time to actually practice a little on CDJs now... and doesnt wreck everythng like 6 months ago.

this, in my opinion, was just a publicized excuse for his recent hit-or-miss mixing. Any respectable DJ knows that using CDJ's is much easier than using TT's.

as for previous comments on track rotation.. I think we all need to realize that only us crazy webforum fans are the ones that actually pay attention to the tracklists from gig to gig. For the average clubber, they won't know half.. even 3/4 of the songs and won't remember what they sounded like the next day.
I think that's probably one of the most difficult things to do for a big-name dj.. pick fresh tracks every month or so that both sound great in the club and are relatively untouched by other djs of the same caliber.

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Originally posted by torontotrance Tiesto just does not have the passion anymore. Hell I've seen him twice and Lawler twice and the biggest difference besides the music genre is that you always see Lawler checking the soundsystem, drinking beers at the bar with clubbers and playing till they eventually kick his ass off. Lawler is passionate and Tiesto has lost that, I do remember that Tiesto's 2001 Oct set was one of the greatest that I've ever been to. Tiesto just does'nt have that passion but he's not alone, throw Armin, PvD, Ferry among others into that group. That's what is wrong with music today, producers don't have passion, the old music may not have been the greatest production wise but they threw all they had into it.

I agree and disagree. I agree, I feel that tiesto has lost the "passion" but.. I think that Ferry and PvD shouldn't be grouped with tiesto. PvD's mixing is usually near-flawless, and when i saw him last year he played for a good half hour longer than scheduled.. the promoter had to cut him off pretty much, and in the middle of his speech (blah blah blah thanks, give a big hand to paul van...) he cut him off and threw on another tune.
Ferry's mixing is also pretty good, or at least when i saw him last (though that was two years ago). His productions are better than most "top-notch" trance djs also, imo.
And while I'll agree that Armin's mixing is beyond boring to listen to, you have to admit that he's at least passionate for his fans.

HOWEVER,

If anything, I would group tiesto and oakenfold together.. I never believed the shit-spewing against oakenfold until i saw him last year. at least two start-stops, and a handful of trainwrecks. Then, half an hour before he was scheduled to stop, he just lifted the needle, kinda threw his hands up, and walked offstage. everyone got screwed out of their half hour, no encore, no nothin.

Most of the Ti�sto bashers have never seen him live anyway; so they totally have no clue what he's like... even if you've heard hundreds of his sets; its not the same as the live experience !

quote:

Originally posted by Push2005 Most of the Ti�sto bashers have never seen him live anyway; so they totally have no clue what he's like... even if you've heard hundreds of his sets; its not the same as the live experience !

though if you've heard a hundred trainwrecks in a hundred tiesto sets, you can reasonably assume that he sucks as a dj.

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Originally posted by Push2005 Most of the Ti�sto bashers have never seen him live anyway; so they totally have no clue what he's like... even if you've heard hundreds of his sets; its not the same as the live experience !

Exactly. Plus I see a lot of you guys comparing live-sets. Remember you are a minority listening to so many live-sets. Also note that a lot of these live-sets are from different locations and that these huge international dj's play all over the place so it is very normal that they have the same tracks over and over in their playlists to let differnet people in different parts of the world enjoy it.

If you live in a place where a big-name dj only passes once a year then you'll be glad he plays the same tracks he played in other places and not just the newest stuff.

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Originally posted by Omega_Blue though if you've heard a hundred trainwrecks in a hundred tiesto sets, you can reasonably assume that he sucks as a dj.

His mixing skills aren't good... he really, really needs to work on that. But live you don't exactly care... for the basses are so loud and powerful you hardly hear it; i also go party to have a good time, not for listening every crossover the dj does.

Are all these people here critisizing Ti�sto going to a party just to hear the dj's transitions ? Well that's pathetic. Ok, i notice them too sometimes; but I wouldn't really let it ruin my night; and that's the point people here dont want to believe, cause they're stubborn.

As i said before; he's an average dj, he deserves no worship, nor bashing. But all that attention to him is a bit exaggerated.

Why don't you bash pvd then if you are a basher and like to bash anyway ? He's gotten so lazy he uses a computer to mix; and his productions are way less qualified than Ti�sto's!

I've noticed its quite often people who hardly go out and in many cases have never even heard the dj they criticise live, but mostly listen to live-sets on their computer that are most critical in a negative sense.

Fair enough to have opinions and be critical, but don't let that be the only thing you look at, stop the nit-picking on the details and enjoy !

I wouldn't say Tiesto is an 'average' dj though, he's over-hyped yes (or other dj's are underhyped if you want to look at it that way) but definitely not average

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Originally posted by Omega_Blue I think that's probably one of the most difficult things to do for a big-name dj.. pick fresh tracks every month or so that both sound great in the club and are relatively untouched by other djs of the same caliber.

Exactly, and thats one of the big problems why the DJ and the experienced fan is so damned bored right now. There is almost no new or groundbreaking work being done in this genre.

Almost forcing the artist to resort to rehashing their own productions and creating edit of the edit of the edit to play something 'fresh sounding'.

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Originally posted by Synthesia Does 2004+ registration have anything to do with this discussion? Lets not stigmatise.

Actually i think it does. Check out the last 2 pages compared to the rather high level of posting before it.

Kinda sucks doesn't it.

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Originally posted by Push2005 Are all these people here critisizing Ti�sto going to a party just to hear the dj's transitions ?

Not all of us are there to pull either. I go to Tiesto parties because i want to hear some quality music. In between the hits that usually happens.

However, for average joe, going to 1 Tiesto gig per year without any pre-determined goal but to enjoy themselves... i think they'll be disappointed with seeing him live. There is a little thing called FLOW that beat-matching/good tune selecting DJs have in abundance.

Thats why its so noticeable to people here if he does trainwreck. If you're listening (live or otherwise) to a DJ supposedly rated the best in the world, you expect him to have the skills to match.

A defence of Tiesto should never start out with "the people going should...", but "Tiesto should.."

Its his own choice to play the same artist productions/tunes. At the high risk of losing some of his legions of blind-worshipping fans and much sought after capital, its something the older Magik fans have been hankering for, that he did actually return to the clubs and started playing music that wasn't overplayed or geared to the ETN generation.

To further a point Konijn mentioned about the quality being lost when popularity reaches saturation point... there is no denying that whilst at number 1 Tiesto was unhealthily complacent to his career.
ISOS 4 - should have been Nyana 2, shouldn't have been 2xCD if ISOS, should've been MIXED rather than just thrown together in a fortnight last spring. In fact the mixing on that CD is atrocious. Its up there with the Parade Of Athletes CD, that even a representative of Tiesto's management admits was rushed out on the market to capitalise on the hype. The "in concert" series, obviously now high-in-demand to fans worldwide who can all view the DVD's and crave for a show like that near them. Unfortunately the US Tour has proven, it doesn't exactly make for a great spectacle to regularly repeat those kind of scaled down Concerts for the masses.

The new fanbase need to realise that their demand for 'In Concert' format and idolisation of the DJ (despite often wayward technique) only serves to inflate the problems surrounding Tiesto (as well as his over-sized ego!)

well this thread got to at least 5 or 6 pages before starting to deterioate. it's an improvement.

one thing i have noticed, and i'm not sure wh, but tiesto followers seem to be quite blinkered. They love tiesto so much but yet don't give other people and djs a chance. It is very fanatical behaviour which you don't seem to get quite as much with PvD or any of the other djs. In the UKs some of the HardHouse djs like the Tidy Boys have equally fanatical fans

Lets face it - Tijs might have the most fans, but they're in 1 of 2 boats.
a) in denial
b) frustrated by the current situation.

I can't explain why his fans don't listen to other DJs but i'd assume it relates strongly to point A.
Following a DJ isnt about listening to music anymore, its comparable to supporting your team. Even if they suck they're YOUR team.

2003 seems a particularly bad year and also a crossroads in my opinion...

Tiesto -> played Traffic everywhere
PvD -> was playing Nothing But You multiple times a night
Ferry -> played Punk everywhere - and continued to make those "artist only sets" for the festivals
Armin -> embraced mcprog - completely losing the quality on ASOT (both radio & label!)

The big difference with that comparison is that at least 2 of the other 3 DJs here have moved on. While the 4th is playing catch up on Tijs (just like throughout his career).

Unfortunately Tijs and Armin are still under the impression that trying to appeal to the masses via artist albums and lavish gig production is the way forwards.

quote:

Originally posted by MichaelBoogerd! Lets face it - Tijs might have the most fans, but they're in 1 of 2 boats. a) in denial b) frustrated by the current situation. I can't explain why his fans don't listen to other DJs but i'd assume it relates strongly to point A. Following a DJ isnt about listening to music anymore, its comparable to supporting your team. Even if they suck they're YOUR team.

i like that analogy (sp?)

so if you were in Tiesto's shoes what would you do?

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Originally posted by slinkyhead i like that analogy (sp?) so if you were in Tiesto's shoes what would you do?

Buy a big house in LA and pretend to be a superstar

quote:

Originally posted by MichaelBoogerd! Buy a big house in LA and pretend to be a superstar

yeah i agree

i think i'd stop playing so many big arena events too, go back to basics a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by Push2005 His mixing skills aren't good... he really, really needs to work on that. But live you don't exactly care... for the basses are so loud and powerful you hardly hear it; i also go party to have a good time, not for listening every crossover the dj does. Are all these people here critisizing Ti�sto going to a party just to hear the dj's transitions ? Well that's pathetic. Ok, i notice them too sometimes; but I wouldn't really let it ruin my night; and that's the point people here dont want to believe, cause they're stubborn.

I'm one of those people who've never heard Tiesto alive, simply because I can't stand even more than usual sweaty rubbing fest in a sardine can, and I'm not going to pay 60+ bucks on something like that.

Of course if you heard any DJ live, he/she usually sounds better. On the other hand, I believe that a PRO DJ should always sound good, or at least give maximum effort. Tiesto is not the only one guilty of this, but he does stand out due to his popularity. Whether it's a 6hr set at a club or one hr guestset for a radio show, a DJ should be showcasing his skill as a DJ.

I do not believe a lot of us Tiesto critics say Tiesto sucks as a DJ because he makes occassional mistakes; it is because he constantly and consistently trainwreck left right and centre. (Although he is slightly improving)

Tiesto entertains a lot of people. The level of effort Tiesto puts in may be fine for those who are satisfied with average DJing and McTrance tunes, but not for the rest of us.

tiesto got too popular and has too many people worshipping the ground he walks on

let me sum it up in one sentence:

"why should I work harder and try to mix flawlessly, when the money rolls in regardless???"

he gets away with shitty mixing because he can!
he gets away with poor track selection because he can!
he gets away with arms in the air for 99% of the time because he can!
he gets away with people paying $70 a ticket because he can!
(by the way, for that money you better spin 2 days straight, I don't care who you are)

and as long as he has a brain dead fan base, he always will

that goes for any other DJ who has his head up his ass

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