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-- Are digital "labels" killing EDM?
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Good point Hydroid!
Thats why i`m slowy fading away from the so called TRANCE scene (what`s purely left of it!)

Those kiddies thinking they release a record, playlisted by one of their fav jocks, and bam they fly away..doesn`t work like that..believe me!

To gain any fame nowadays, stay true to your roots, and most of all! - BE ORIGINAL -
All trance today is soooooooooo boring, with all those labels so called mp3 digi-labels, not to mention names here, i laugh big time the weekly links i get, even from inovative labels.
I really wonder the average age of the true music buyers and clubbers.are you here on the forum?

Not the kiddies on the peer to peer networks and sequencers with all those cracked stolen plugins!


And THAT`S were it exactly all starts!!!
Nuff of it, good luck kids, see ya around

quote:

Originally posted by sigmanova not necessarily, there are some really awesome unsigned tracks out there by (new or old, don't really know) producers. just because it doesn't get signed doesn't mean it's a bad piece of music.

yeah true, but that doesn't mean that labels aren't interested in it. perhaps there are other reasons why these type of tunes aren't signed like licensing or contractual issues that can't be settled. and of course there are talented artists that don't choose to go the large label route, but the quality artists that do choose that path are few and far between.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller perhaps there are other reasons why these type of tunes aren't signed like licensing or contractual issues that can't be settled.

you're forgetting that labels don't normally sign based on quality... most of them have a token sound or style they'll only sign, regardless of how good the track is. you could make an absolutely shit-hot piece of trance but if it doesn't sound like something the majority of trance DJs out there would play, then most labels would turn it down... sadly.

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra you're forgetting that labels don't normally sign based on quality... most of them have a token sound or style they'll only sign, regardless of how good the track is. you could make an absolutely shit-hot piece of trance but if it doesn't sound like something the majority of trance DJs out there would play, then most labels would turn it down... sadly.

perfect example from UKTA's MaRt...... Echano - Nothing to live for

Got promo rls with a watered down "95% of trance is shit and mine is no different" remix from gareth emery and in the end, an original piece of music which was perfectly written never saw the light of day because it wasn't cookie-cutter

You think that DJs didn't sift through 10,000 vinyls to find 1 or 2 gems?

It's all for love of the music; as trance becomes less underground and merges with other genres it will only get more and more difficult to truly find quality.

Technology is always ahead of the curve.

Re: Are digital "labels" killing EDM?

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Right, let's start with a disclaimer: I don't think there's anything wrong with selling digital music as such. I think it's a great way for us to get the back catalogues of labels that we couldn't before. It also saves us a lot of money when we don't have to pay �10 for every single record we get. However... Lately I've been noticing a trend of new pseudo-labels popping up who do nothing but sell us mp3s of young and naive artists who think they're going to make it big because someone makes us pay for the mp3 files we used to get free from the artist himself. This is slowly but surely leading us to the point where the market is full of sub-par, generic sounding FL/Reason tracks made by teens who think they're the next big thing, when in reality the only people who will ever hear from them are the TA's. Who's going to bother going through all those "releases" just to find the 1 or 2 good ones? Not me, that's for sure. This trend is getting increasingly worrying, especially in the Music Producers Promotion forum here. People come in and think their first track is the next big thing and think it's going to get signed. They send their tracks around but - shock, horror - nobody wants to sign them... so they create their own label. At worst we have certain labels (no names mentioned) who go through the forum and trick the kids to "sign" their tracks to some would-be-label because we all know quantity over quality is what counts. Are these guys ever going to see any profit from these sales? I highly doubt it. So yeah... I'm not sure if my ramblings make any sense, but it'd be interesting to hear your views.

I couldn't agree more Mystery.

Another point, allthough could be argued like a mother ******.....is:


Back when vinyl was the only means of getting ur tunes.....it kinda made for only the people who reallly wanted those tunes...to get them, ya know, kicking out the bucks and ordering from some foriegn country...(im from canada)....placing a sweet order, and feeling like your 10 years old again and its christmas morning when they come.

Now any idiot can go on beatport or trackitdown....and grab the knewest and best tunes available and have them in like 2 minutes...i dunno my 2 cents....



whatever....good SKILLS and set programing will always sort out the retards from the jocks.

Re: Re: Are digital "labels" killing EDM?

quote:

Originally posted by Salem Back when vinyl was the only means of getting ur tunes.....it kinda made for only the people who reallly wanted those tunes...to get them, ya know, kicking out the bucks and ordering from some foriegn country...(im from canada)....placing a sweet order, and feeling like your 10 years old again and its christmas morning when they come. Now any idiot can go on beatport or trackitdown....and grab the knewest and best tunes available and have them in like 2 minutes...i dunno my 2 cents....

well basicly back then majority of people downloaded the tracks for p2p.. since they didn't have a vinyl player or wanted to buy one. nowadays most of them buy the mp3s legally.

it seems that in trance scene there are always people who think that old times were always better, trance scene should be as small as possible and nobody new should not be introduced to trance and it should be kept secret.
aswell as in trance scene (and probably other scenes too) there are certain people who just love to complain about everything, their contribute to the scene is that they complain, about everything that changes, everything new, every new release and most of all everything that gets popular weather it's asot or digital releases.
i'm actually very sad that our great scene and community has to suffer from that sort of bitter and jealous people who never came a dj or a recording artist, so they'll let that frustaration out by dissing everything. maybe people who hate so much everything about trance and everything related to it, shouldn't be listening to it in the first place.

and finally some plus and minuses to the actual topic..

- the catalogue raises and it keeps harder to find the ones you personally like.

- sometimes the labels do release crappy tunes that sound like they are made in an hour or so, and that makes all the quality digital releases look like bad too, the releases you might have worked months and months.

- getting signed isn't as hard as it used to be, don't know if it's good or bad thing, but maybe being signed isn't as great anymore when everyone else is too.

- doesn't do good for vinyl culture, forcing deejays to play more and more cds.

+ for those who don't have a vinyl player have a legal way to buy mp3s. and even those who constantly download stuff from p2p might sometimes even buy something leagally since it's that easy and you'll definitely get the right track in full quality.

+ releases out faster. before all the big tunes were already played out when they got their release.

+ easier to buy tracks, you can even surf in the record stores from your home at 4:00 in the morning and get the tracks right away easily.

+ the bigger catalogue makes deejay's role even more important. deejay shouldn't be something that plays the same shit as the big deejays, but someone who goes through a huge amount of tracks to find the good ones (or ones he likes)

so it seems like in few minutes of thinking i get 4-4 situation, maybe there are more plus and minuses, though that's all i can come up with now. basicly the biggest advance in digital releases is that now even the ones who don't own a vinyl player or a big amount of money can get their hands on the best and newest tracks right away, and more and more quality stuff is getting to people's attention. oh and all you people in this thread who always download everything from p2p but still complain here about digital release culture should be ashamed of themselves..

and if you guys really think that most of digital labels release what ever they want just because they can and there are no expenses, it clearly shows you have no idea about it. i think most of the labels want to have a good catalogue and get a good name in the scene with their releases, they don't want to destroy their name with a shitty release.
sure there might be labels that really put out shit fast to get money, but why would you even care about such labels? you don't care about the shitty r'n'b hiphop (or whatever music style you dislike) releases and labels, so why bother on these either? if they really are that crap then probably nobody buys them and soon they're out of the business. and if they are bought it again shows that not all people have the same music taste as you.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery How can you know?

how can i know? ive been dj ing since i was 13, and there were less stuff around and i couldnt really compare alot of stuff with each other as the choice between tracks wasnt so big as it is nowaday.
its much much more fun nowadays to listen to the stuff that are out there, shure you find alot of shit among them but if you find that one piece of music thats awesome and you know that maybe youre the only one who has it you realise then that whole digging and searching and listening and sleepless nights were all worth it.

Re: Re: Re: Are digital "labels" killing EDM?

quote:

Originally posted by a98 well basicly back then majority of people downloaded the tracks for p2p.. since they didn't have a vinyl player or wanted to buy one. nowadays most of them buy the mp3s legally. it seems that in trance scene there are always people who think that old times were always better, trance scene should be as small as possible and nobody new should not be introduced to trance and it should be kept secret. aswell as in trance scene (and probably other scenes too) there are certain people who just love to complain about everything, their contribute to the scene is that they complain, about everything that changes, everything new, every new release and most of all everything that gets popular weather it's asot or digital releases. i'm actually very sad that our great scene and community has to suffer from that sort of bitter and jealous people who never came a dj or a recording artist, so they'll let that frustaration out by dissing everything. maybe people who hate so much everything about trance and everything related to it, shouldn't be listening to it in the first place. nutes of thinking i get 4-4 situation, maybe there are more plus and minuses, though that's all i can come up with now. basicly the biggest advance in digital releases is that now even the ones who don't own a vinyl player or a big amount of money can get their hands on the best and newest tracks right away, and more and more quality stuff is getting to people's attention. oh and all you people in this thread who always download everything from p2p but still complain here about digital release culture should be ashamed of themselves..

i like the first part of your post! it really hits a point there and the last part but especialy the first part!

Re: Are digital "labels" killing EDM?

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Right, let's start with a disclaimer: I don't think there's anything wrong with selling digital music as such. I think it's a great way for us to get the back catalogues of labels that we couldn't before. It also saves us a lot of money when we don't have to pay �10 for every single record we get. However... Lately I've been noticing a trend of new pseudo-labels popping up who do nothing but sell us mp3s of young and naive artists who think they're going to make it big because someone makes us pay for the mp3 files we used to get free from the artist himself. This is slowly but surely leading us to the point where the market is full of sub-par, generic sounding FL/Reason tracks made by teens who think they're the next big thing, when in reality the only people who will ever hear from them are the TA's. Who's going to bother going through all those "releases" just to find the 1 or 2 good ones? Not me, that's for sure. This trend is getting increasingly worrying, especially in the Music Producers Promotion forum here. People come in and think their first track is the next big thing and think it's going to get signed. They send their tracks around but - shock, horror - nobody wants to sign them... so they create their own label. At worst we have certain labels (no names mentioned) who go through the forum and trick the kids to "sign" their tracks to some would-be-label because we all know quantity over quality is what counts. Are these guys ever going to see any profit from these sales? I highly doubt it. So yeah... I'm not sure if my ramblings make any sense, but it'd be interesting to hear your views.

are you arguing that mass amount of digital labels' releases have a negative effect on the quality of all the releases in the marketplace?

Yep, digital is at least killing the vinyl industry. One of the biggest online vinyl distributors out of the west coast www.majesticstore.com is gone. I can't even find them on the web anymore. I talk to this guy bob who owns a record store, and he tells me distributors are hurting bad right now. He says lack of record sales are putting a lot of vinyl stores and distributors out of business. People just don't want to pay for vinyl anymore because getting a track off the net is easier and way cheaper. A well what can you do about it? except bitch like I do.

Re: Re: Are digital "labels" killing EDM?

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange are you arguing that mass amount of digital labels' releases have a negative effect on the quality of all the releases in the marketplace?

In a way, yes - at least if you think about the long term effects. When the next generation of music makers realise there's no quality control anymore, why would they even bother to do quality? And what happens when the current generation retires?

Finally a worthwhile topic in Music Discussion. Good to see.

I's like the pick up the point on the Music Producers Promotion. Occasionally there are some big-headed people (note lack of word producers) who like to think their track is going to be massive and ignore any criticism because it is negative. Totally the wrong way in which that forum is going with some people I agree. What annoys me more though is the amount of people who simply post on there and do not have the common decency to at some point in the near future to check out the producers tracks who have given them a review. Might seem a little thing but it is downright disrespectful. How is a community likely to build from that?

On the whole though I see the quality of productions from most people as quite good and there are even a few exceptional producers in there who are very modest too. These are the people who take it more as a hobby and some it would not surprise me if they declined labels. I produce solely on a hobby level myself, although not to the quality of others around the forum. Though for some producers around there, I see the sheer desperation of anyone jumping into a digital label release rather ridiculous. I find it quite sad that the sole aim for some people is just to be signed, whatever the level of label. If they feel that being on some sub-standard label will improve their CV they are severely mistaken.

I produce minimal/experimental sounds and I find that this market is one which should be repected in it'd form of digital labels. Labels that distribute people's music just because they have a sheer love for it, for free, otherwise known as Netlabels. There is a vast array of talent in this section of Minimal that could easily make the step up to the bigger vinyl labels. Most on the other hand are entirely happy to share their music free on the internet. I'm sure anyone reading this can surely respect that. The netlabels are not a form of competition either, just a great place to showcase free, egoless music from some very talented producers.

On the digital stores issue, the only one I respect is Beatport. I only know it on again a Minimal level but it does a lot for the scene with mp3's only coming from established vinyl labels (yet to discover a digital-only label yet) at a very good quality, either 320kbps or wav format if you'd so desire. This way there are no vinyl labels being killed through the digital domain as such (though p2p is a perceivable problem) and the music on the internet is available for free. It's a shame that the situation is not similar for trance and the like.

Re: Re: Are digital "labels" killing EDM?

quote:

Originally posted by Salem I couldn't agree more Mystery. Another point, allthough could be argued like a mother ******.....is: Back when vinyl was the only means of getting ur tunes.....it kinda made for only the people who reallly wanted those tunes...to get them, ya know, kicking out the bucks and ordering from some foriegn country...(im from canada)....placing a sweet order, and feeling like your 10 years old again and its christmas morning when they come. Now any idiot can go on beatport or trackitdown....and grab the knewest and best tunes available and have them in like 2 minutes...i dunno my 2 cents.... whatever....good SKILLS and set programing will always sort out the retards from the jocks.

I agree with the feeling of getting a vinyl order from an online store. I love that feeling. My friends actually make fun of me for that. He He.

I guess I say that never before has more been available because we don't just lose the past. The things that have come before are still avilable, but in addition to what has come before we have even more stuff coming out now. I mean sure some good stuff fades away into obscurity, but the really good stuff stays with us., we haven't really lost very much, but we sure have gained alot.

Maybe I should try harder to share some of the good downloads I am finding, There is a show callled "down with the chairman" which showcases a variety of downloadable music, almost every show there is something completely unexpected that I find enjoyable. Also there are all sorts of people who go through the vast collection of stuff available online and give recomendations, it is alot like TA except with better music(irresistable joke, sorry). It is hard getting into this free net music but eventually after following a bunch of random links you can get a feel for who is putting out good music and where to go to find it. If you would only try, I'm sure you would be very happy with the things that you find, alot of this internet music has a completely different feel to it.

The "To Move" top 25 list on http://www.netlabelism.net/?page=nettops&top=move never disapoints me.

and this station http://www.eclecticmeme.com/index.htm streams alot of music but it is very hit and miss because the variety is so wide, I find it is a good thing to listen to if you feel like exploring.

EDIT: Added links to 5 good ones in my sig, will update them whenever I feel like it.

what sites would you recomend Semirk?

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 The "To Move" top 25 list on http://www.netlabelism.net/?page=nettops&top=move never disapoints me. and this station http://www.eclecticmeme.com/index.htm streams alot of music but it is very hit and miss because the variety is so wide, I find it is a good thing to listen to if you feel like exploring. EDIT: Added links to 5 good ones in my sig, will update them whenever I feel like it. what sites would you recomend Semirk?

Recognise a few names on that top 25 list which is quite pleasant to see. I could provide some links to minimal netlabels but not sure if it's yours or anyone elses thing. If you or anyone wants me to put a list up just say and I'll gather some.

I would enjoy enjoy a list very much. I'm not sure what styles of digital music are my favorites quite yet, so much stuff just transcends classification. What I've been doing is just randomly trying things and sorting them into piles of "stuff I like" and "stuff I dont like" and I would really like to learn to find my way around the massive selection of music out there a bit better. So I have this really diverse collection of things and can't identify any particular theme among them that I find enjoyable, which is much different than my experiences with EDM where I can identify some specific things which I shape my taste around. My biggest complaint with EDM is music which lacks contrast, but now I am drowning in music that has plenty of it.

its really overwhelming, like getting into EDM for the first time, happening all over again. So yeah, I'll take any help in navigating this massive pile of music that I can get.

The biggest problem today is that these so called "Digital Labels" are signing material that legit labels pass up on. As a result you get an influx of subpar tracks that seem to be flooding the scene more and more.

I'd say that given the demos we (Somatic Sense) get, which has increased steadily, the number of quality tracks has seriously gone down. Maybe 1 out of every 100 tracks is worth considering. If you think we put out 'average' trance, then you should really hear some of the stuff that we get and pass up on.

Some of you have the notion that vinyl is dying off becuase MP3 sales are overwhelming vinyl sales, this couldn't be further from the truth (atleast from what I've seen). Vinyl still is the main means of revenue for a label and I foresee it being so for quite a while.

I think whats happening in this thread is differeing ideas of what a digital label is. There exist many so called netlabels that do have quality control and have created reputations for releasing good stuff of a completely different standard than most EDM, people for whatever reason do not want their tracks signed and instead distribute them for free. There are also these fake labels that crappy stuff is released on in an attempt to get them listed in the mp3 shops and make a small amout of money.

So the internet is both a blessing and a curse in this sense.

I think the reason people are saying that digital is on this massive rise is because most typical party going consumers don't own turntables and like mp3s more then the crappy cd's that we get. From the perspective of many people digital is indeed the new paradigm for obtaining music. EDM labels still seem for the most part to care chiefly about DJ's, probably because they are the ones spending all the money on music, then consumers just pay to go watch them play it and maybe buy a few cd's where they get like 10 tracks for 15 dollars rather than paying that same price for each record and buying many many more.

We are getting alot of confusion over this, some people talking from the perspective of a DJ trying to work a dance floor, some just regular party kids trying to find good stuff to listen to in their home and car stereos for when they aren't out partying. EDM's preference towards DJ's does bother me a bit because I am not one, but it is understandable that they are the target market because this stuff is made with the intention of being mixed into DJ sets and not heard at home, and DJ's easily spend much more money on music than regular people.

i found and still do find alot of awesome tracks and releases on digital labels or digital imports sites.

just cause it's on mp3 doesn't mean that the dude who made the song in fag-y loops 6 wouldn't submit and prolly get the track released through a "real" label.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto just cause it's on mp3 doesn't mean that the dude who made the song in fag-y loops 6 wouldn't submit and prolly get the track released through a "real" label.

90% of the time it does, though.

Some Minimal netlabels that you could check out if you wished to Zombie0915:

Archipel - http://www.archipel.cc/ - The Kabale Und Liebe release strongly recommended
EarMin -
http://www.ear-recordings.nl/ - Basszuchter - Native EP the pick of the bunch for me
Zimmer - http://www.zimmer-records.org/
Mmmph - http://www.mmmph.org/
Minlove - http://www.minlove.net/
Kyoto Digital - http://www.kyoto-sound.com/ - Some great dubby stuff, the release Xoki/Hieronymus - Dub World Order strongly recommended
Miga - http://www.miga-label.org/eng/main.htm - A brilliant label specialising in Minimal and IDM

well i dont really want to go very off topic but really these people who make minimal music nowadays dont really understand what minimal is all about. its really easy to make a minimal song than a lets say house or a trance or techno song. its like in paintings you know Picasso with his abstract paintings and matisse and all these people were doing these mad and unusual stuff but not because they couldnt draw a body of a person perfectly, they just found theyr style. A minimal music is something you have to get to its a jurney till there.
dont get me wrong i love minimal and stuff but alot of people are jumping on minimal nowadays. Luciano,Villalobos,Koze,Meyer,Lazarus,and all the other minimal masters are fuckin awesome but really you can hear a difference between theyr sounds and between the sounds that the "new guys" make and in those new guys's music something is missing, the depth is missing.
and i think that not only minimal but trance has lost its depth too, since alot of people who make music dont really spend alot of time infront of theyr music making gears, they just know the formula , throw it all together and voila they make tune that sounds technicaly very good but there are no intense emotions and thougts behind those songs.
producers nowadays dont really spend alot of times on theyr music, which is very sad imo.
i think technology has alot to do with this too, because it made making music a very easy and a fast process. people dont take the time to get to know theyr softwares or and stuff because there more and more new stuff coming out everyday so its very easy to get lost in it...
you just have to know what you want and use only the stuff that you need.

Re: Re: Re: Are digital "labels" killing EDM?

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery In a way, yes - at least if you think about the long term effects. When the next generation of music makers realise there's no quality control anymore, why would they even bother to do quality? And what happens when the current generation retires?

Quality or not, I havnt seen anything new in trance for a few years now, especially from big labels. Its time to break eggs and for trance to be given back to the people to fuck it around and re-invent it. I'm sure the older generation will still be pumping out megahits for years to come anyway. The ground for something really revolutionary that doesnt rely on commercial success is in the digital domain, not in the commercial realm of big labels. Sure, you might have to dig through a lot of yawnfull clones to get to it, but its the only way for trance to move forward.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery 90% of the time it does, though.

and you know this because you love digital releases so much that you have gone them all through. and you know every producer personally and know the story behind their tracks..
gimme a break with the bullshit already, you are acting like you know everything when you don't know anything.

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