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-- Circumcision should be outlawed
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Originally posted by Psy-T

This smiley doesn't make postings any smarter.

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Originally posted by TranceGiant This smiley doesn't make postings any smarter.

It's not supposed to, and btw, posts like those do a lot more to ruin a discussion (not to mention the mood of a forum) than to help it - if that's what you want to do, fuck off to the COR.

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Originally posted by TranceGiant This smiley doesn't make postings any smarter.

nor does posting what you posted to start this exchange in the first place

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Originally posted by Psy-T and i'd like a serious response from NeoPhono in regards to this: 1.A. If you lose a lot of youre penis' nerve endings 1.B. You will experience less pleasure from sexual acts

In all fairness, I'm not sure I completely agree with this premise. More nerve endings might = more sensitivity to touch, but pleasure is a cognitive experience that goes far beyond the simple sensation in a small area. Pleasure from having sex comes from many sources, including visual, emotional, touch and even (gasp) love. Just because the penis may be more sensitive to touch doesn't factually mean that the person will experience a greater level of pleasure.

Plus, if your dick is too sensitive to touch, it might mean that you don't get to experience the pleasures of going back in for another dip after you complete your first session.

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Originally posted by Shakka Plus, if your dick is too sensitive to touch, it might mean that you don't get to experience the pleasures of going back in for another dip after you complete your first session.

or worse. you could be Asian

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Originally posted by Psy-T and i'd like a serious response from NeoPhono in regards to this: 1.A. If you lose a lot of youre penis' nerve endings 1.B. You will experience less pleasure from sexual acts

"Loss" of nerve endings does not necessarily translate into a loss of sensation, at least seuxally. When the tissue is removed at such an early age in development, there is more than enough time for the surviving nerves to make up for the lost ones in terms of sensation. The growing individual's nervous system is able to make up for a loss, albeit a small one, of any nerve tissue. And when I said "at least sexually" I am referring to the fact that sexual gratification occurs primarily at the level of the brain, namely the nucleus accumbens, more than at the site of arrousal (the penis). As long as the message gets from the penis to the brain stimulating sexual arrousal and then release, that's really all that is needed.

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2.A. If you wear your penis' glans (which is said to be the equivalant of a clitoris, wikipedia for one supports the hypothesis that the glans is homologous to the clitoral glans) 2.B. You will experience less pleasure from sexual acts is this biased information? is it false information? are the B statements not the obvious results of the A condtions?? if not, and the circumcision procedure involves cutting off a part of the skin that has a lot of nerve endings aswell as seving to protect the penis' glans from wear (as many sources i've read state), then by pure healthy logic - you will experience less pleasure from sexual acts.

First, the clitoris is homologus to the penis, or more accurately the phallus. The glans penis is simply the distal end of the phallus. Removing the glans penis is not the same as removing the clitoris. You should also note the the glans penis is what the foreskin covers. The foreskin itself is not the glans penis. Cutting off the entire penis would the the same as removing the clitoris.

It should be noted that there are several forms of female circumcision. The most "mild" and probably most similar to male circumcision is called a "clitoral circumcision" and this is when the skin surrounding the clitoris is cut or removed, not the clitoris itself. This is done often in Western medicine when there is a natural descrease in clitoral sensitivity, when the patient has what is called a "hidden clitoris," or when the skin surrounding the clitoris does not allow it to be stimulated. In this case the circumcision is actually used to increase sensitivity.

On the opposite end of things, and where most people become upset, is when the clitoris, libia minora and libia majora are removed. This is called a "pharaonic circumcision." It's the one that gets all the attention from rights organizaitons. If you were to remove the homologous parts in a male, you would remove the penis, scrotum and part of the urethra.

I would hardly call that procedure equal to removing the foreskin.


And the reason I would equate male circumcision with vaccination/immunization is that it is a long-percieved health benefit that has come into question over the years with different groups saying that vaccinations can cause anything from sudden infant death syndrom to autism.


If you'd like the source for my diatribe above on the male and female genitalia, you can check out Langman's Medical Embryology, Ninth Edition. It was my text book Embryology this fall. Just as an FYI, not an "I'm greater than everyone else," I'm a Master's student in Anatomy.

Thanks for all this info Neo. I probably would have never bothered to look it up or discuss any of it if it weren't for you two (NeoPhono & Psy-T).

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Originally posted by NeoPhono "Loss" of nerve endings does not necessarily translate into a loss of sensation, at least seuxally. When the tissue is removed at such an early age in development, there is more than enough time for the surviving nerves to make up for the lost ones in terms of sensation. The growing individual's nervous system is able to make up for a loss, albeit a small one, of any nerve tissue. And when I said "at least sexually" I am referring to the fact that sexual gratification occurs primarily at the level of the brain, namely the nucleus accumbens, more than at the site of arrousal (the penis). As long as the message gets from the penis to the brain stimulating sexual arrousal and then release, that's really all that is needed. First, the clitoris is homologus to the penis, or more accurately the phallus. The glans penis is simply the distal end of the phallus. Removing the glans penis is not the same as removing the clitoris. You should also note the the glans penis is what the foreskin covers. The foreskin itself is not the glans penis. Cutting off the entire penis would the the same as removing the clitoris.

thank you, finally i got a 'pro' circumcision arguement that referrs to it's effects on sensation rather than various infections, one that even gives me some credit in understanding logic rather than just telling me 'this and that are biased'.

please do elaborate on the glans penis: does it not 'wear' and dry without the protection of the foreskin? if it does - does it not lose some of it's functionality (supposing it's functionality is to transfer more sensation signals to the brain among other things)?

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Originally posted by Psy-T thank you, finally i got a 'pro' circumcision arguement that referrs to it's effects on sensation rather than various infections, one that even gives me some credit in understanding logic rather than just telling me 'this and that are biased'. please do elaborate on the glans penis: does it not 'wear' and dry without the protection of the foreskin? if it does - does it not lose some of it's functionality (supposing it's functionality is to transfer more sensation signals to the brain among other things)?

The glans penis is similar to the other sensitive areas of skin around the body such as the back of the hand or face. It is made up of a tissue called "stratified squamous keratinized epithelium." Really the only important part of that label is the "keratinized" part. What that means, is that as the skin tissue grows, it becomes filled with keratin and dies. It forms a protective covering over the living tissue that prevents damage and the loss of fluids.

I have read some very misleading websites that state that the glans penis of an uncircumsized individual is either non-keratinized or becomes more keratinized after circumcision. This is not the case. An example of non-keratinzed squamous epithelium is the lining of the esophagus. That type of tissue is not suitable to be exposed to the outside environment, especially during the friction and trauma it would eno****er if it did cover the glans penis (during sex).

All this being said, the glans penis is a sensitve area. Back in the day when humans went without clothing, I can definitely see a place for the foreskin. I can't imagine running or jumping or constantly exposing the glans penis to the outside environment without a foreskin covering. However, in modern times, this doesn't tend to be (usually) the case.

As far as sensation goes during sex, it is important to differentiate the pleasure sensation of sex with other sensations such as pain. With pain, the more nerve receptors you excite, and the degree in which you excite them, causes a change in your pain perception. If I slap your face, it will hurt. If I hit you in the face with a brick, it will hurt a lot more. With sex, you can be stimulated to a certain point, orgasm, at which time more excitation will not bring about an increased response. (You could even say prolonged stimulation would bring about the opposite effect as the area becomes hyper-sensitive) As long as the glans penis (as well as other sources) has the ability to illicit an orgasm, I'm not exactly sure what adding extra nerve endings would gain. I guess you could argue that maybe you would reach orgasm faster, but I would suggest that after circumcision the brain is able to componsate for the loss of neurons and that difference in time would be negligable.

One day, if I have a son, I will have him circumsized for a variety of reasons. Others will not have their sons circumcized for their own reasons. In the end it's a personal decision. I just don't think it should be outlawed or banned.

This thread is lol.

8 pages damn

arguing about peni

Say no to Snuffleupagus.

What i discovered about those that were circumsized and werent happy about it later in life are that they are fellas with little pee pees and blame the surgery for stunting the growth. I have heard horror stories go wrong which is understandable.

Do u have a small pee pee psy-t ?

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Originally posted by Spankster What i discovered about those that were circumsized and werent happy about it later in life are that they are fellas with little pee pees and blame the surgery for stunting the growth. I have heard horror stories go wrong which is understandable. Do u have a small pee pee psy-t ?

no, but thanks for the interest.

in the future, you should consider actually reading threads you post in.

Ok, so this is interesting. I just found out there's no Quranic reference requiring circumsition for Muslims. Since it was so widely practiced, I just assumed it was.

Yeah, the whole idea of it is pretty fucked up.

Wouldn't it be amusing if the whole reason for it started because some sick and twisted pedophile got off of it 2000 years ago? And we're just doing it because it's "tradition".

Glad this never happened to me... I hear it deadens the amount of pleasure you can potentially have if you were to have kept your foreskin.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby Yeah, the whole idea of it is pretty fucked up. Wouldn't it be amusing if the whole reason for it started because some sick and twisted pedophile got off of it 2000 years ago? And we're just doing it because it's "tradition". Glad this never happened to me... I hear it deadens the amount of pleasure you can potentially have if you were to have kept your foreskin.

By amusing I mean "sad"... but I won't put it past this species of ours.

Yes, it should be outlawed if the person doesn't know he's having a part of his being chopped off. In fact, circumcision reminds me a lot of the Korean Fan Death.

In Korea, they firmly believe that, if you sleep in a room leaving the fan on, it will kill you. I've never heard of such thing here.

The same goes for circumcision. It's quite rare here in Brazil, and I still have mine intact. Not only I've never had any sort of problems with hygiene (don't you guys clean that in the shower?!), but that's the source of most pleasure (I don't need to go into details, hopefully, Psy-T has already mentioned the reasons).

The lot of you care way too much about this kind of thing. Circumcision, shaving pubes... chop the whole damn thing off already

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono First, the clitoris is homologus to the penis, or more accurately the phallus. The glans penis is simply the distal end of the phallus. Removing the glans penis is not the same as removing the clitoris. You should also note the the glans penis is what the foreskin covers. The foreskin itself is not the glans penis.

That's exactly the point: You have that foresking stimulating the glans, and that's a lot more pleasant than having the glans, solely, being rubbed against whatever it is that you're rubbing it against

@ NeoPhono: I have a question for you since you're in the medical profession. What are the clinical/hygenic benefits of circumcision? I'm a little bit confused now after hearing from some people that there aren't any?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z @ NeoPhono: I have a question for you since you're in the medical profession. What are the clinical/hygenic benefits of circumcision? I'm a little bit confused now after hearing from some people that there aren't any?

My understanding is that all of the benefits of circumcision have been more or less rendered moot by the discovery of soap.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z @ NeoPhono: I have a question for you since you're in the medical profession. What are the clinical/hygenic benefits of circumcision? I'm a little bit confused now after hearing from some people that there aren't any?

There are some fairly rare diseases that do not occur with circumcised individuals. Also, since there is no chance of smegma buildup, you also don't have to worry about things on that front. There are also several STDs (namely, HIV/AIDS) that are much less likely to be transmitted to an individual who has been circumcised.

Those are the "biggies."

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Originally posted by NeoPhono There are some fairly rare diseases that do not occur with circumcised individuals. Also, since there is no chance of smegma buildup, you also don't have to worry about things on that front. There are also several STDs (namely, HIV/AIDS) that are much less likely to be transmitted to an individual who has been circumcised. Those are the "biggies."

So basically it makes sense unless you're obsessed with a few nerve endings that probably don't make a whole lot of difference to being with (I read your other post regarding that in this thread too)?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z So basically it makes sense unless you're obsessed with a few nerve endings that probably don't make a whole lot of difference to being with (I read your other post regarding that in this thread too)?

So basically you're trying to justify something that you had no choice, because you now have no choice in reversing what has been done?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z So basically it makes sense unless you're obsessed with a few nerve endings that probably don't make a whole lot of difference to being with (I read your other post regarding that in this thread too)?

If you're asking my opinion, I honestly don't see the rationale behind not being circumcised. The only argument that I see being used against circumcision is that it somehow decreases your pleasure, which I've already talked about. The possible health benefits of circumcision outweigh the perceived loss of sensation, especially when the circumcision is performed on an infant.

I will have my sons (if I have any) circumcised. If someone asked my "medical opinion" I would also recommend circumcision. However, I'm not going to go around trying to persuade people into being circumcised or try to change policy in its favor.

Just like I don't think those against circumcision have any merit to do likewise.

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