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-- Do you believe in God?
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Originally posted by Jem_hadar The idea that love is something that IS god or stems from him/her/it or whatever is ridiculous to me. Love is simply a state of feeling. An emotion. Same as hate. Same as jealousy. It just exists bc we exist and are capable to feeling as such. (same as you believe god just exists -- something i differ with you on) there is not higher power in the universe that formed shit.

What you are stating is that the idea of the existance of god (of any description) is ridiculous to you. That's fair enough, you don't have to believe, however, that does not negate my earlier statement. Whomever I was responding to was questioning the existance of hell.... which is an idea from the Christian tradition. My post was meant to clarify what hell is in the Christian tradition so that people may know exactly what it is they are questioning the existance of.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard What you are stating is that the idea of the existance of god (of any description) is ridiculous to you. That's fair enough, you don't have to believe, however, that does not negate my earlier statement. Whomever I was responding to was questioning the existance of hell.... which is an idea from the Christian tradition. My post was meant to clarify what hell is in the Christian tradition so that people may know exactly what it is they are questioning the existance of.

So you were explaing what you know hell to be (for those that believe in hell).

Gotcha.

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar So you were explaing what you know hell to be (for those that believe in hell). Gotcha.

I was explaining what the christian tradition defines hell as, my beliefs are not necessarally reflected by my posts on the subject.

Even though I was raised an Orthodox CHristian, I don't know if I believe in God in the classical Church, or other religious sense. I believe in science, and am more intrigued by the religious aspects of Budhism and other religions that place more emphasis on the human than on some all-knowing-all-powerful God. Having said that, I think that there are all sorts of everyday occurances that are taken for granted, such as love, that indicate our existence to be limited by the perspectives of our senses. I think that the universe is a vast space, that can play host to all sorts of consciousness, existing on a multitude of levels outside our own.

I think the above discussion is part of a reason why so many people don't believe in God. Perhaps religions take a too rigid stance on what God really is, and how such a being functions. There are many things in our life that are so beyond our control, that are so epic in their scope, that the mere experience of being able to be aware of it is to call it god-like. Maybe god is just an energy form, responsible for the turning of all the elements in the cosmos, and is a result of all this randomness taking form as a human being. You gotta admin, there's an awful lot about what makes us human, that science cannot explain. Can not these atributes of love, hate, courage, and a plethora of other absurd, uniquely human, characteristics be a result of god, and god itself in this instance meaning that something which is beyond our understanding, and beyond our comprehension. I think people today are too preoccupied with some ludicrous notion that they have to be in full control of their life. Here's a question; if you don't believe in god, do you believe in fate...have you ever been trully in love...have you ever seriously contemplated hating someone so much to wish their existence to end? If you don't consider yourself a believer of god, do you consider yourself to be a spiritualistic person?

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Originally posted by shanny There are a number of arguments such as intelligent design and the ontological argument which make it very hard to argue that god doesn't exist. However in any argument I came across what is proven is that the existence of an all perfect being exists. I never read anything that suggests that the type of god you might want to worship, like the gods depicted in many organized religions exists.

I was just about to post this, I took a course called "God, Reason and Evil." We read Hume, Kant, and a few others, and then the professor had us apply these theoretical ideas to life, using the example of the Holocaust. (ie. if there is a benevolent God, why would He allow such an event.)

Having said that, the course didn't exactly convince me either way. I suppose I'm agnostic, if only because I really, really like reason.

The problem with doctrine is that it must be based from a specific interpretation of what God is.

At the most general level, doctrine is going to be fundamentally different if you take a negative theological viewpoint (God isn't...) versus a positive theological stand (God is...)

Conservative Christians are all extremely theistic, eliminating any abstract notions of what God is or isn't. This creates a feeling of comfort in that the ability to grade whether one's life is a positive or negative on creation can be measured and compared relatively easily to an idealised version set out by a theistic God.

As a panentheist, I don't have such concrete boundaries. Panentheists believe that God exists, but not in the traditional hierchical form. God is a base from which all creation springs forth. God isn't directly involved in the living of life and does not perform supernatural phenomenon in order to prove his existence or power. Philosopher and Theologian Paul Tillich probably has the best explanation: "God is the ground of all being, the source of love and the source of life".

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Originally posted by nacarter As a panentheist, I don't have such concrete boundaries. Panentheists believe that God exists, but not in the traditional hierchical form. God is a base from which all creation springs forth. God isn't directly involved in the living of life and does not perform supernatural phenomenon in order to prove his existence or power. Philosopher and Theologian Paul Tillich probably has the best explanation: "God is the ground of all being, the source of love and the source of life".

Interesting. I'm going to have to read up on this.

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Originally posted by zokissima Here's a question;if you don't believe in god, do you believe in fate...

No. Don't believe in fate at all, either.

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If you don't consider yourself a believer of god, do you consider yourself to be a spiritualistic person?

No. I am most certainly not spiritual to any extent.

most def i do

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar Oh - you mean like the "Q". Yea, I love the Q. I'd totally believe in them! Omnipotence at its' GREATEST!

Odd that the russian language skips over the letter Q. I wonder what they are trying to hide

Yes, I believe in Tiesto.

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Originally posted by Subey Odd that the russian language skips over the letter Q. I wonder what they are trying to hide

We don't have Q in our alphabet

I believe in God, too many things in life have happened for me not to.
I just don't believe that you have to go to a church in order to believe in him....too many christian churches these days have become the symbol of hyprocasy...proving to be nothing but gossip barns.

yeppers

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Originally posted by nadezhda yeppers

I'm smellin' another WineFul Discussion!



7

"god help me.." is one of my most popular saying.

I do beleive in something...b/c if i didnt...I would have shot myself in the face a long time ago.

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Originally posted by Shaya007 I'm smellin' another WineFull Discussion!

i need to give denise back her book!

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Originally posted by dance2dabeat I do beleive in something...b/c if i didnt...I would have shot myself in the face a long time ago.

Wow Kelly. Shooting urself in the face would be bad. You have made a good decision so far by not doing that.

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Originally posted by nadezhda i need to give denise back her book!

bahaha!

oki!

God as depicted by most religions does not exist, imo.
Its just a way for humans to explain their existance, or use it to control people.

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Originally posted by AwakenedAddict Well you make an interesting point! This is where religion and I meet However we differentiate on how this should be achieved. Most religions adhere to strict codes of conduct that stipulate what is good and what is bad. This methodology is inherently is flawed because no set of rules can fully prepare someone for making the right decisions in life. Instead, an individual should think introspectively until he or she is satisfied that he/she is doing what is "right". Then act accordingly. PS: yeh, I grew up in a religious household as well

Disagreed to a bit.

Every human lives by a standard, whether it be rule of law, parental, social, etc. Religion is just another standard out there.

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Originally posted by loca It's a tough choice for me, i'm almost too science-minded to believe in it but sometimes i can't help but hope there _is_ a God.

And there is the primary reason why a lot of people believe in a god or gods. Hope. Someone greater than us that can do stuff to help us out.

Because we know that humans are fallible and believing in someone who is infallible is comforting, esp. if he/she/it is on our side.

It's like a kid putting trust in parents who seem infallible to him/her. It is why Christianity use the familial relationship to describe relationship between God and his worshippers. An all mighty 'father' God protecting his 'children'.

To a degree, it's a survival reflex, because most of us want to continue to live, and hoping that some supernatural being is out there to protect us helps us survive longer (or the perception is).

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Originally posted by EvilTree And there is the primary reason why a lot of people believe in a god or gods. Hope. Someone greater than us that can do stuff to help us out. Because we know that humans are fallible and believing in someone who is infallible is comforting, esp. if he/she/it is on our side. It's like a kid putting trust in parents who seem infallible to him/her. It is why Christianity use the familial relationship to describe relationship between God and his worshippers. An all mighty 'father' God protecting his 'children'. To a degree, it's a survival reflex, because most of us want to continue to live, and hoping that some supernatural being is out there to protect us helps us survive longer (or the perception is).

The universe hides Order within Order.

We all have a unique toolset that we use to identifiy order in chaos.

If you believe in evolution then you look for survival sequence. Once a sequence is found you use it as an anchor in order to aid in the identification of the remaining chaos till all the data is encapsulated.

The tool I use to identify Order is RED OR. Then extracting The Mother and The Daughter from Chaos becomes a trivial pursuit. Then only a Holy Ghost will be left behind...

wtf is RED OR ? ^^^

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