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-- Tips & Low Prices, or No Tips & Higher Prices
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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur And without tips, there wouldn't be any of these problems either. On another note, since we've pretty much decided that you tip to get better service next time; that means if I don't go to restaurants often enough for them to remember me, I don't have to tip at all. If I spread my eating out over enough restaurants, they won't remember me at any particular one, and I won't ever have to tip. Or, if I'm on vacation and I know I won't ever go to this restaurant again, same deal; no point in tipping - there won't be any next time for me, so why tip? See how well tipping works out for the servers?

I see how you're seeing it. Technically, yes you're right. If you dont tip, you dont tip. None of our business really. But to honestly think like that. Lame.

Re: Tips & Low Prices, or No Tips & Higher Prices

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur One thing I have never been able to understand is the concept of tips. How did this start? How did it become mandatory in some situations? Take waiters/bartenders for example. Why am I paying them for the job they are supposed to be doing - isn't that the employer's responsibility? I can understand slipping the girl a $20 because she unbuttened a few buttons on her blouse while serving you, or because she let you grab her ass when you got drunk, or because she'll meet you out back when you leave, but how did that evolve into "well, I'm serving you, so you should pay me for it."? No, bitch, you aren't serving me, your company is - they are providing the service of me sitting on my ass while my food is prepared and brought over to me. I'm not going to the restaurant to see *you*; I'm going there to get some good food brought over to me, and I should pay for that, and that only. From there on, it's up the company to decide how much to pay you to keep your ass happy. I go there to eat, not to sit there and figure out competitive wages for you. Furthermore, I like to see what I will be paying on paper, right in front of me. It makes choosing shit that fits my budget that much easier. If all restaurants/bars just tacked and 15% onto all their prices and didn't make me pay tip, I'd be that much happier. If I buy a $30 steak and a $5 dollar coke, I know that exactly $35 will be leaving my pocket, instead of $25 plus some amount up to me to determine to keep your ass from spitting in my food the next time I go there. I really don't want that responsibility. I just want my food. I know it's a great scheme on the side of the restaurant because you think you'll be paying less than what you actually be paying. But fuck, when I go to Walmart and buy a $5 picture frame, they don't tack on 10 dollars worth of Walmart-charges that I don't see till I come to the cash register, do they? No, they just make me pay $15. And on the topic of cashiers, why do coatcheck people have tip jars? Where the hell did that come from? Why not cashiers in clothing stores? Let's compare - coatcheck staff: takes your money, and put your clothes on a hanger; cashier: takes your money, and takes clothes off a hanger, folds them, and puts them in a bag. One expects a tip and one doesn't; what the fuck's the difference? WHY AM I NOT PAYING THE SALESPERSON'S COMMISSION DIRECTLY WHEN THEY SELL ME SOMETHING IN A BOUTIQUE? So, please, vote, and try to clear up my confusion. Much appreciated. P.S. To all the bartenders/wait staff that read this that feel like bitching at me how they hate people like me who don't tip, I'd just like to let you know I DO tip. I have a calculator on my cellphone; it works out. I just don't get why I'm doing it. And if you hate the people that tip, wouldn't you be happier with no tipping and a higher wage too?

Couldnt have said it better myself.

I do tip in situations where i know the person relies on it (sadly its engrained in our system) But i will NOT tip hairstylists and taxi drivers.

Tipping is one of the great north american scams. They charge just as much here as they would anywhere else for food yet on top of that we pay taxes AND tip.

F that!

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Originally posted by Enraptured Think about it this way, who is more likely to serve you well, someone who is being paid a flat rate of $12 an hour, with NO incentive to try harder? OR someone who knows that YOU, the customer, will be making the decision as to how well to reward the service you receive?

and here is the big flaw in the tipping arguement. Incentive.

Want to know what your incentive would be to serve a customer better at $12 an hour? How about a boss who will fire your ass if you dont do a good job?

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I went to Europe last year, where tipping is not traditional, and their service people make a MUCH higher wage to compensate. And actually, I didn't find a lower level of service, so you might be onto something. Maybe tips SHOULD be automatic.

I agree tips should be automatic. Its called a salary!

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Originally posted by PartEgurl I am a server as well. You hit the nail on the head! It always amazes me when a table you think isnt impressed with the service tips well. At the restaurant I work at I have to pay 3% of my total sales as tipout, this money goes to the kitchen and bar tenders. If a table tips 10%, that only leaves me with 7%.

people if angry will tip more just to show that its not about the money.

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Originally posted by Sasha The manager needs to make sure that his workers don�t slack, since the manager cannot monitor every worker in the restaurant there should be some sort of incentives. so TIPS are incentives.

If the manager cant monitor the employees then they need to get a new manager.

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur So far, the argument that I see is that tipping is an incentive to work harder. But, if that were true, so would the following: => People with jobs that are not tipped, and thus have no incentive to work well, wouldn't do an up-to-par job. That is not true. If people get paid well, even if it is flat-rate, they are generally happy and generally do an up-to-par job. So pay servers well for the work that they do, and they'll generally do a good job like the rest of us. A high flat-rate pay is as much incentive to walk around with a smile as is getting tips. Because of external factors (quality of food, performance of kitchen staff) that servers have no control over, people who tip 15% regardless of service, cheap people who tip 5% even if you worked your ass off, generous people, and people who tip based on attractiveness; all that more than offsets people like Floorwhore who religiously tip properly based on the actual service, so on average you getyour 15% tips regardless of how well you worked today. And this amkes the tipping system as inefficient as the flat rate system. My gripe is not with tipping when you get great service. My gripe is with feeling obligated to tip when I received up-to-par service. In non-tipping positions, people who excel at their jobs also get rewarded - raises, promotions, etc. People who are up-to-par stay in the same place. People who aren't, eventually either quit or get fired. I don't see why a manager in a restaurant can't do the same with their employees. Oh, and the argument "we work hard so we should get tipped" is completely bogus - if you work hard, you should be paid more, if you don't like it, quit. Free-market forces work well enough that if everybody suddenly stopped paying the mandatory tips, restaurant wages and prices would rise to the point where there would be a pool of workers willing to do the job well at the market wage.

Dont forget to mention that in most countries that dont have tipping, service is either as good or better than here. With the exception of england of course LOL

I've worked the kitchen, I've worked as a server, I'm currently a manager at a Dine-In Pizza Hut.

My personal opinion is a pretty laid-back one. Tips are up to the customer, on most days I serve, I average out at about 15 bucks an hour after tips and wage are combined. 15 bucks an hour to walk some pizza and drinks to your table and pretend I like you? Sign me up any day. Sometimes a customer won't tip, and that's cool too. Shrug, it's their money. What *I* hate are bitch customers who have a complaint and feel the need to personally attack me or my staff because of it. They could tip me $50 and I'd still go out of my way to make their next visit a hassle. To me, it's not about the money, serving sucks because people are bitches, and on any given day, one mistake could have a customer hit a nerve during their rant (like the 8-minutes it takes to rush a replacement for a mistake is the end of the world) and ruin my day. The $10 tip means nothing if it's accompanied by a "You suck at your job" rant from some asshole who had to wait 5 extra minutes for their food.

As far as the kitchen vs server argument. Servers, you deal with bitch customers yeah, but having to make, keep track of, and time all the food properly is a real bitch as well. Kitchen staff should get a cut, even if it's just a few bucks at the end of the night to buy a beer. I never actually EXPECT a cut of a server's tips, but you better believe I agree with tha_broad 100% when it comes to preference for servers who treat you well vs those who don't. We had one particular server in my resteraunt who would start screaming bloody murder if she ever got 3 or more tables. If you made a mistake, oh shit... After the first couple of times though, me and the rest of the kitchen staff would find it more than just a little funny to purposely hold on her orders or "lose" a bill. Contrast that with how hard I focused on the orders from the server who would drop in and make his own salad or order when he had the time, and THANKED me when I was on the ball (which was more or less all the time, I must admit)... well, you do the math yourself.

As far as managers not being able to watch 100% of their employees... You're right that you can't, but you also don't NEED to be able to watch 100% of your staff 100% of the time if you're any good at your job, a quick check-in every 10 minutes or so will keep them on the ball. The bottom line really is, if you're a good manager who respects your staff, they'll respect you in turn and do a good job.

I also want to give my two cents the big-tip = good service next time theory. Servers will remember a good customer and put out the extra effort to keep them happy. MOST servers will remember that guy or girl who came in, ordered their food, treated us like a PERSON instead of an automated order-taking device, and left us SOMETHING for our efforts. The fact that that SOMETHING is usually a big tip from a good customer is coincidental. To most of us, a good customer is all about how they treat us, and how they deal with us when/if we fuck up. IOW, it's not about the tip. Since our extra effort is put in for ANY good customer, it's therefore not about the tip, thus, not a bribe.

If I know that a restaurant puts automatic tip required into their bill, I do not eat there.

I'm a firm believer in meritocracy. You do a good job, I tip well. You don't, then you get less.

It is a hard industry to work in because humanity need a good lesson in manners and courtesy quite a lot.

Spam opened up a good point in the fact that how you treat your server has a bigger effect on their day
than the money you leave at the end of your stay.

Tipping allows a person to be rude to the server under the excuse that they'll make it up by the tip. The old "I'm paying you money, so you better take my shit" adage. Whether they do or don't though depends more on the server than it does on the client (a lot of people don't realise just how rude they were). If there were no tips, there would be absolutely no excuse for a patron to be rude to a server.

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Spam opened up a good point in the fact that how you treat your server has a bigger effect on their day than the money you leave at the end of your stay. Tipping allows a person to be rude to the server under the excuse that they'll make it up by the tip. The old "I'm paying you money, so you better take my shit" adage. Whether they do or don't though depends more on the server than it does on the client (a lot of people don't realise just how rude they were). If there were no tips, there would be absolutely no excuse for a patron to be rude to a server.

Tipping allows no such thing. Some people are just bitches, through and through, and bitches will be bitches whether they have to tip or not. If any person uses their tip as their reasoning for treating a server poorly, it's an excuse.

Inever said it wasn't. That's why I said that if there was no tipping, being rude to your server would be UNEXCUSABLE.

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Inever said it wasn't. That's why I said that if there was no tipping, being rude to your server would be UNEXCUSABLE.

No... it already IS unexcusable. That's the point. The problem isn't TIPPING, the problem are the PEOPLE who are bitches.

If there were high prices, I would still feel bad if I didn't tip. So I vote lower prices, and tips. Not to mention you can tip accordingly based on the qulaitiy of service.

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Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* If there were high prices, I would still feel bad if I didn't tip. So I vote lower prices, and tips. Not to mention you can tip accordingly based on the qulaitiy of service.

That's ridiculous. Do you feel bad about not tipping your salesperson? If the prices are high, then the servers are already being paid well, ergo, they don't need your money.

And we've discussed the other point at length already.

mcguinty should pass a law banning tipping LOL

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