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quote:

Originally posted by HardTranceProd so if you were around in the 1940s, would you like to have been eradicated as part of the "final solution" to the "root of the problem"?

Who's problem? One persons wild and psychotic desires?


The arab's are becoming a problem for the entire world, no country is safe from them (except France, but they are a bunch of pussies). It is predicted that within the next 20 years or so. The majority of the population of Europe will become arab.

Its a silent takeover, and everyone is blind to it. They are just continuing the Jihad that they couldnt finish in 700-800BC when they were stopped at the border of the territory now considered France.

What a coincidence huh?

quote:

Originally posted by Vlad The arab's are becoming a problem for the entire world, no country is safe from them (except France, but they are a bunch of pussies). It is predicted that within the next 20 years or so. The majority of the population of Europe will become arab.

I'm not agreeing with you completely on everything else either, but France is having problems with them, too. All the rioting that was going on there last fall was predominantly Muslim youths.

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy I'm not agreeing with you completely on everything else either, but France is having problems with them, too. All the rioting that was going on there last fall was predominantly Muslim youths.

Well than, there you go.

From what I understand, the problem that France is having is mass Arab and Muslim mirgation (not takeover). Because many of the French are opposed to this change in demographic, they've been taking subtle descriminatory actions against the new inhabitants Muslims there protest because they're being labled, targeted, and profiled. It's not much different than what we've done over here in the States in the past to Jews, Blacks, Chinese, Japanese, Mexicans, et cetera. Because of a nations fear, ignorance, or even wit and knowledge, it makes it difficult or uncomfortable for those who are unwanted, to be inhabitants.

"Jihad" isn't what was stated a few posts above this one ^^^. The media has done a great job at getting us all to completely misunderstand the term.

Lets say, Martians descended upon the US and attacked, killing the President, government officials, destrying all government buildings, and completely crippling the nation, but American soldiers continued to fight the Martians, knowing that they'd probably die, because it would be better to die knowing that they tried their hardest to save their country, rather than concieding to a Martian regime that just destroyed everything they knew and loved. <-- That would be the equivalent of "Jihad". Terrorism is not Jihad. Hostile takeover is not Jihad. Those people are separate entities from anyone who believes in Jihad.

As far as putting an abrupt end to things over there did I read something about 'Ethnic Cleansing' ? Wow. War would have ended years ago if the US didn't continue to supply nations with bombs, guns, tanks, and war jets.

Terrorists have problems with themselves, and lots of major countries.

The US is having lots of problems with major countries.

But Arabs? Arabs don't seem to have too many problems with anyone. It seems moreso to be lots of internal conflict. If we didn't make their problems our concern, they would have had a survival of the fittest death match, a few nations would have come out on top, and all this would have been over with years ago. Of course, we have to make their problems our concern...



From what's being reported, the US Gov't is supposedly taking a bit more hands-off approach to the current conflict between Israel and Lebanon. Hopefully that turns out in our favor. We already have too many other issues on our plate.

quote:

Originally posted by Vlad Sigh... just more evidence of how retarded the media is here.

why is it retarded?

no mention of what is going on in Gaza in the news now. Or about how many palestinians are rotting in israeli jail for no reason at all.
I guess since the US does it(prisoners in guantanamo bay) why cant the isarealis do it?

quote:

Originally posted by chi6me8ra according to something I read on the BBC, Hezbollah provides good social services and health care to citizens

Most terrorist groups do. You feed the hungry, illiterate masses. Then you help educate their children. then when their bellies are full you tell them Israel caused all of your problems. Then they become terrorists. Why? Because you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

quote:

Originally posted by Blake From what I understand, the problem that France is having is mass Arab and Muslim mirgation (not takeover). Because many of the French are opposed to this change in demographic, they've been taking subtle descriminatory actions against the new inhabitants Muslims there protest because they're being labled, targeted, and profiled. It's not much different than what we've done over here in the States in the past to Jews, Blacks, Chinese, Japanese, Mexicans, et cetera. Because of a nations fear, ignorance, or even wit and knowledge, it makes it difficult or uncomfortable for those who are unwanted, to be inhabitants. "Jihad" isn't what was stated a few posts above this one ^^^. The media has done a great job at getting us all to completely misunderstand the term. Lets say, Martians descended upon the US and attacked, killing the President, government officials, destrying all government buildings, and completely crippling the nation, but American soldiers continued to fight the Martians, knowing that they'd probably die, because it would be better to die knowing that they tried their hardest to save their country, rather than concieding to a Martian regime that just destroyed everything they knew and loved. <-- That would be the equivalent of "Jihad". Terrorism is not Jihad. Hostile takeover is not Jihad. Those people are separate entities from anyone who believes in Jihad. As far as putting an abrupt end to things over there did I read something about 'Ethnic Cleansing' ? Wow. War would have ended years ago if the US didn't continue to supply nations with bombs, guns, tanks, and war jets. Terrorists have problems with themselves, and lots of major countries. The US is having lots of problems with major countries. But Arabs? Arabs don't seem to have too many problems with anyone. It seems moreso to be lots of internal conflict. If we didn't make their problems our concern, they would have had a survival of the fittest death match, a few nations would have come out on top, and all this would have been over with years ago. Of course, we have to make their problems our concern... From what's being reported, the US Gov't is supposedly taking a bit more hands-off approach to the current conflict between Israel and Lebanon. Hopefully that turns out in our favor. We already have too many other issues on our plate.

Well said.

quote:

Originally posted by Taub no mention of what is going on in Gaza in the news now. Or about how many palestinians are rotting in israeli jail for no reason at all. I guess since the US does it(prisoners in guantanamo bay) why cant the isarealis do it?

Yeah, it's definitely 'no reason at all'... sounds about right I guess that they are probably bombing Lebanon for 'no reason at all' too?

Really logical thing to say, given that the ones who end up in jails are the ones who end up across the border when trying to execute attacks or the ones who are attacking outposts / soldiers during raids...

Whoever said this is obviously insane:

'But Arabs? Arabs don't seem to have too many problems with anyone.'

They seem to have problems with denmark when they publish cartoons they don't like. Or other countries that republished the cartoon. Freedom of speech kind of threatens their religious fanaticism. Don't you remember how they tore down some embassies? My, how fast you people forget.....

quote:

Originally posted by Scolomon Whoever said this is obviously insane: 'But Arabs? Arabs don't seem to have too many problems with anyone.' They seem to have problems with denmark when they publish cartoons they don't like. Or other countries that republished the cartoon. Freedom of speech kind of threatens their religious fanaticism. Don't you remember how they tore down some embassies? My, how fast you people forget.....

"Arab" is not synonymous with "Muslim Extremist"

"Arab" is not synonymous with "Terrorist"

... which is exactly why I listed 'Terrorists' separate from Arabs in my original statement.

It's a shame that the media can do such a good job in shaping peoples thoughts in that they automatically link one subject/object to another without even realizing that they're two different things.

And again, this kind of thing happens all the time with the media in news, movies, television et cetera. Cold War anyone? Racial Profiling anyone? They must have it down to a science. Generalized demonization of entire groups of people. Mmmmmm .

As I said before, Arabs have lots of internal conflict, which is probably exacerbated by our involvement. As for the terrorists, extremists, and fundamentalists, that's another set of issues.

quote:

Originally posted by djy2g33 Yeah, it's definitely 'no reason at all'... sounds about right I guess that they are probably bombing Lebanon for 'no reason at all' too? Really logical thing to say, given that the ones who end up in jails are the ones who end up across the border when trying to execute attacks or the ones who are attacking outposts / soldiers during raids...

have they been tried for any crime? if they haven't and are being held in isralei jails then its for no apparent reason. If they have commited a crime then charge them with it.



What are the palestinians to do excpet carry out "terrorist" acts when the land they have lived on for countless numbers of year are being taken by people who have tanks,and other weapons saying God gave them the land and its their right to live there.

ITs all fucking politics....israel is allowed to have nuclear weapons but no one around isreal can have it. Bull fucking shit. Isreal is allowed to form an army but palestine is not.

Thank God for Iran, and i do hope more and more countires around isreal develop nuclear war heads so the playing feild will be even.

When a country is not able to form and army or have any weapons to defend it self then what will they do? They will defend their land in any way possible. So thats how you get "terrorists" blowing up themselves...what other means do these people have to fight back? they dont have war heads to put in their tanks and fire 40 miles away. They give their own life up to fight for their land. The land that was taken away from them recently.

Wouldn't it be funny if the Native Americans came back with the support of a super power and told americans to move out from parts of the US sice its their land and God gave it to them, its their right to own that land, they had it before the americans came there. What would the US do? Just be a push over as the palestinians were?

You can call the isrealis "terrorists" if you look at it from a lebanese or palestinian prespective.

quote:

Originally posted by Taub have they been tried for any crime? if they haven't and are being held in isralei jails then its for no apparent reason. If they have commited a crime then charge them with it. What are the palestinians to do excpet carry out "terrorist" acts when the land they have lived on for countless numbers of year are being taken by people who have tanks,and other weapons saying God gave them the land and its their right to live there. ITs all fucking politics....israel is allowed to have nuclear weapons but no one around isreal can have it. Bull fucking shit. Isreal is allowed to form an army but palestine is not. Thank God for Iran, and i do hope more and more countires around isreal develop nuclear war heads so the playing feild will be even. When a country is not able to form and army or have any weapons to defend it self then what will they do? They will defend their land in any way possible. So thats how you get "terrorists" blowing up themselves...what other means do these people have to fight back? they dont have war heads to put in their tanks and fire 40 miles away. They give their own life up to fight for their land. The land that was taken away from them recently. Wouldn't it be funny if the Native Americans came back with the support of a super power and told americans to move out from parts of the US sice its their land and God gave it to them, its their right to own that land, they had it before the americans came there. What would the US do? Just be a push over as the palestinians were? You can call the isrealis "terrorists" if you look at it from a lebanese or palestinian prespective.

On the prisoners:
Would you really prefer that they sentence these people to death for a botched suicide bombing? Or how about they are just released so they can try to go bomb the smae place again? Each country has the right to deal with its prisoners of war as needed, and these are exactly prisoners of war... Countries that have to deal with extremist issues like Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan all do it... And in the exact same way for the exact same crimes that you don't seem to consider "terrorist"... So it's really not unique to israel... Its what circumstances call for.

On the "blowing themselves up is the only thing they can do"
Somehow throughout the history of time, people have not dealt with things (before they had nuclear weapons) by blowing themselves up (You had kamikaze bombers in the in Japan, but thats a really different situation).... this is pretty much unique to certain regions / religions (I don't even have to say which one)... so what else are they to do? How about civil disobedience? How about diplomatic means? How about developing what you do have so that you can show something for it instead of "blowing yourself up being the only thing they have left to do" as you put it... Blowing yourself up as you put it, is as cowardly a thing as could be and shows a basic disregard/lack of contempt for life... which makes one's case SO plausible for having a place to situate life... and if we're to switch to the reason for this post, um why are we even in this post? Oh yeah, because you go and kidnap other people's soldiers, and its expected that nothing will happen? I've never heard of, throughout any other persecution of any people, anyone doing it in this way... I mean they basically stand out as extreme, neanderthal like, and they make their own case very unplausible, even for Arab nations as I'm sure you've started to notice...

On you hoping more countries are like Iran:
And really smart to say you hope more countries deny factual events, imprison/torture the opposition governments, anduse and abuse other countries (like Lebanon right now) and their people for their own purposes by funding and controlling organizations to fight for them (like Hezbollah)... Oh and more countries that threaten stability by talking of wiping other countries off the map and blatantly trying to develop nuclear weapons (which you don't deny here... but they seem to be denying it quite a bit)... Yeah sounds like we should have more Irans right?

I mean I have my specific opinion on the matter in regards to the Israel issue, but all I have said above is purely general.. I don't think these statements need a specific example even, they are so obvious... Thats more reason why I felt compelled to write a decently lengthy reply

quote:

Originally posted by Taub have they been tried for any crime? if they haven't and are being held in isralei jails then its for no apparent reason. If they have commited a crime then charge them with it. What are the palestinians to do excpet carry out "terrorist" acts when the land they have lived on for countless numbers of year are being taken by people who have tanks,and other weapons saying God gave them the land and its their right to live there. ITs all fucking politics....israel is allowed to have nuclear weapons but no one around isreal can have it. Bull fucking shit. Isreal is allowed to form an army but palestine is not. Thank God for Iran, and i do hope more and more countires around isreal develop nuclear war heads so the playing feild will be even. When a country is not able to form and army or have any weapons to defend it self then what will they do? They will defend their land in any way possible. So thats how you get "terrorists" blowing up themselves...what other means do these people have to fight back? they dont have war heads to put in their tanks and fire 40 miles away. They give their own life up to fight for their land. The land that was taken away from them recently. Wouldn't it be funny if the Native Americans came back with the support of a super power and told americans to move out from parts of the US sice its their land and God gave it to them, its their right to own that land, they had it before the americans came there. What would the US do? Just be a push over as the palestinians were? You can call the isrealis "terrorists" if you look at it from a lebanese or palestinian prespective.

^^^ That's the way I understand it for the most part.

Growing up and going to school in and around heavily Jewish neighborhoods (UWS) I was definately familliar with their side of the story, but along with independant study I made it a point to also talk to Palestinians, Muslim Arabs, et cetera so that I could get a more full picture of what actually went on.

It is quite a double standard for Israel to be allowed Nukes and no one else. Without means of defense I suppose all the smaller countries can do is sit back and try their best to comply, or be bitched out by larger countries. Of course, the US would probably die before it allowed some of these countries to gain more power and pull than they already have.

technically israel isnt allowed nukes because although everyone is nearly positive they have nuclear capabilities they have never come out and said so explicitly
they arent allowed to have nukes.pakistan was never allowed to have nukes either. they developed a program.

as for it being unfair israel is occupying palestinian territories, these countries should have thought before they invaded israel in 1967. Israel took this land after all of these arab countries planned to take them off the map. If you lose your land trying to destroy another country you have no right to ask for it back 40 years later.

quote:

Originally posted by Scolomon as for it being unfair israel is occupying palestinian territories, these countries should have thought before they invaded israel in 1967. Israel took this land after all of these arab countries planned to take them off the map. If you lose your land trying to destroy another country you have no right to ask for it back 40 years later.

a. uhm -- "palestinians" never did anything except get their homes jacked, and certainly weren't mobilizing any armies in '67 (since they didn't have them). even if events had played the way you describe (they didn't), it still doesn't justify anything.

b. books penned by respected israeli historians and published just this year have cast the events of 1967 in an entirely new light; the expansions into gaza, golan, and the west bank were planned since the 1950s(!) and the "surprise" attacks of '67 were anything but. it's fascinating stuff that tears down yet another nationalist myth.

btw: the prisoners whose release hezbollah has demanded were largely individuals rounded up as part of mass sweeps in lebannon.

of course, anyone with half a brain knows that this was has absolutely nothing to do with two kidnapped soldiers...

quote:

Originally posted by Konijn a. uhm -- "palestinians" never did anything except get their homes jacked, and certainly weren't mobilizing any armies in '67 (since they didn't have them). even if events had played the way you describe (they didn't), it still doesn't justify anything. b. books penned by respected israeli historians and published just this year have cast the events of 1967 in an entirely new light; the expansions into gaza, golan, and the west bank were planned since the 1950s(!) and the "surprise" attacks of '67 were anything but. it's fascinating stuff that tears down yet another nationalist myth. btw: the prisoners whose release hezbollah has demanded were largely individuals rounded up as part of mass sweeps in lebannon. of course, anyone with half a brain knows that this was has absolutely nothing to do with two kidnapped soldiers...

so because they were attacked but not surprised they aren't allowed to take over land from countries attacking them?

quote:

Originally posted by Konijn btw: the prisoners whose release hezbollah has demanded were largely individuals rounded up as part of mass sweeps in lebannon. of course, anyone with half a brain knows that this was has absolutely nothing to do with two kidnapped soldiers...

The first statement is subjective because I'm sure there are innocent people that were imprisoned that were asked for release but I can also guarantee you that hezbollah or other extremists were asked as part of the release as well.

I'm sure we'll never hear of the specific prisoners asked for release.

Hezbollah never did release the kidnapped soldiers, which were the original demands of Isreal. It would have been interesting to see if all of this could have been avoided like Israel claims if the soldiers were given back.

quote:

Originally posted by Scolomon so because they were attacked but not surprised they aren't allowed to take over land from countries attacking them?

clearly, things have to be spelled out for you...

a. the palestinians (you know, the people whose land is occupied) never attacked.

b. the israelis instigated army movement from syria and egypt as a pretext to launch "pre-emptive" attacks and occupy gaza and the west bank. this is what the new books i mentioned are all about.

quote:

Originally posted by Konijn clearly, things have to be spelled out for you... a. the palestinians (you know, the people whose land is occupied) never attacked. b. the israelis instigated army movement from syria and egypt as a pretext to launch "pre-emptive" attacks and occupy gaza and the west bank. this is what the new books i mentioned are all about.

israel instigated egypt's army mobilization to make a preemptive attack?

this sounds like a conspiracy theory to me

quote:

Originally posted by Taub When a country is not able to form and army or have any weapons to defend it self then what will they do? They will defend their land in any way possible. So thats how you get "terrorists" blowing up themselves...what other means do these people have to fight back? they dont have war heads to put in their tanks and fire 40 miles away. They give their own life up to fight for their land. The land that was taken away from them recently. Wouldn't it be funny if the Native Americans came back with the support of a super power and told americans to move out from parts of the US sice its their land and God gave it to them, its their right to own that land, they had it before the americans came there. What would the US do? Just be a push over as the palestinians were? You can call the isrealis "terrorists" if you look at it from a lebanese or palestinian prespective.

Exactly, "terrorists" is such a buzz word these days. If the word was around in 1776 do you think the British would have called us terrorists?

ter�ror�ism (tĕr'ə-rĭz'əm)
n.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.


Israel has said that their attacks are aimed to destroy Hezbollah (although it seems more like destroying Lebanon is their ultimate goal).
By their own logic, they can be said to be using terrorism.

Hezbollah captured 2 Israeli soldiers as prisoners of war(lets stop saying kidnapped please, such a biased term) who the Lebanese Police (and now many newspapers are saying) were on Lebanese territory, contrary to the story that Hezbollah went into Lebanon & captured them. Hezbollah said the soldiers would be released through diplomatic solutions in a prisoner exchange deal for many 'kidnapped' Palestinian government officials, civilians, & Lebanese , as they have done many times before, which IS allowed in war. Calling that terrorism is irresponsible & inconcievable. Hezbollah was the orginazation that repelled the previous Israeli invasion back in the '70s. No other country that Israeli invaded was able to do that.

The US invaded & is currently OCCUPYING iraq for political reasons, and some could argue ideological reasons. They went AGAINST the UN for this. As this war is internationally unlawful, it is also terrorism.

People need to stop throwing around the words freedom, democracy, liberty, justice, terrorism, until you really do your research. Stop being an American Patriot for 2 seconds and try being a human being with the power of common sense, knowledge, and interpretation.

^^^ Funny, BBC blasted US media for using such terms well over a year ago. 12 year old children are kidnapped. Innocent people are kidnapped. SOLDIERS are not kidnapped. They're taken prisoner. Soldiers know that there's a risk of being taken prisoner when they sign up for the job. I wonder what would happen if a country said that they would attack the US if it didn't release prisoners of war, or convicted terrorists for that matter. The semantics are geared towards creating a bias in the minds of viewers. Artful and illustrious as the language use may be, it doesn't fly, at least not with me.

quote:

Originally posted by djy2g33 On the prisoners: On you hoping more countries are like Iran: And really smart to say you hope more countries deny factual events, imprison/torture the opposition governments, anduse and abuse other countries (like Lebanon right now) and their people for their own purposes by funding and controlling organizations to fight for them (like Hezbollah)... Oh and more countries that threaten stability by talking of wiping other countries off the map and blatantly trying to develop nuclear weapons (which you don't deny here... but they seem to be denying it quite a bit)... Yeah sounds like we should have more Irans right?

You make yourself look stupid....


Learn how to write correctly please. That post racked my brain when trying to comprehend your A-D-D. jumpy minds thoughts.

quote:

Originally posted by pyro264jb You make yourself look stupid.... Learn how to write correctly please. That post racked my brain when trying to comprehend your A-D-D. jumpy minds thoughts.

I think you look stupid if you have issues reading a 3 lines of sentences. The thought is full and clear. I wrote correct sentences. Therefore, go take your Adderall before reading these things and the thoughts won't seem so jumpy.

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