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Originally posted by skip stupid fanatic fucking idiots. like i said, stupidity and religion. EVERYONE and i mean EVERYONE should just learn to chill and take it easy.

Spot on bro.

These religious mongs believe anything they are told.

The world ain't flat, get over it.

What a poor response Tiesto14...lol...fuck your name is "Tiseto14" anyway i shouldn't expect more...what you've done there is selectively take single line sentences and respond with your usual brain-washed shit...you missed the FACTS and NUMBERS i've posted there, you missed what my whole point was, you didn't evolve the conversation in any direction, you didn't appropriately respond to my arguments, your arguments were shit and weren't different from your previou post, your reasoning was shit, your assumptions shitier (me on the hezbolla's side ) and your personal attacks even shitier and i don't care about personal attacks per se but what they were stating lol, that i'm a "little boy" and stuff...You are the "TIESTO-14" FOR FUCKS SAKE!Not Me!!!I am 25 thank you and I DON'T FUCKING CARE HOW OLD ARE YOU and i DON'T WANT TO BASE MY RESPONSE IN YOUR FUCKING AGE. (although i should probably consider your "mental age" which is probably very low but anyway i'll be good to you)

I could easily dispute EVERY SINGLE LINE you posted there ,EVERY SINGLE RESPONS WAS WRONG. "A war against terorrist organizations"?Ok to bad that the dead form the Hezbolla were 40 and the innocent lebanese 1,100 DEAD PEOPLE (3.800 WOUNDED).I don't know were to start...about the innapropriate use of missiles in populated areas...i gave you what the targets, they were...fleeing fucking civivlians, hospitals, residences and your response "it's a war shit happens its TRASH. tHE FACT THAT fucking Hezbolla is in the goverment sdays NOTHING.Some of their members have some political positions but their power and significance is low. The fac that they are in the goverment doesn;t make them THE goverment. I'll not continue since your response will be shit again.

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Originally posted by PETRAN I am 25 thank you and I DON'T FUCKING CARE HOW OLD ARE YOU and i DON'T WANT TO BASE MY RESPONSE IN YOUR FUCKING AGE. (although i should probably consider your "mental age" which is probably very low but anyway i'll be good to you)

I just want to step in here and remind you that when you last argued with me, you did nothing but refer to my age with the distinct implication that I was inferior because I was younger.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I just want to step in here and remind you that when you last argued with me, you did nothing but refer to my age with the distinct implication that I was inferior because I was younger.

he says he's 25 but it seems like he is 15
every other word is fuck shit piss

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just want to step in here and remind you that when you last argued with me, you did nothing but refer to my age with the distinct implication that I was inferior because I was younger.

The last time i argued with you was about the "history of trance" and i don't have to remind you again about how rude you were when you've stated your point about music that was made back in 1991. I found the "age variable" to be directly related with that specific subject and that's why i used it, truely in a "Semi-jokingly" fashion.Also i didn't use it because i wanted to demostrate that you were inferior but because you didn't know anything about the history of trance, you were extremely young back then.

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he says he's 25 but it seems like he is 15

I don't think so, iam the only one who always post facts and numbers and that's what i've done again. If they disturb you, if truth generally disturbs you, well, that's another thing and you'll have to deal with it.

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Originally posted by PETRAN The last time i argued with you was about the "history of trance" and i don't have to remind you again about how rude you were when you've stated your point about music that was made back in 1991. I found the "age variable" to be directly related with that specific subject and that's why i used it, truely in a "Semi-jokingly" fashion.Also i didn't use it because i wanted to demostrate that you were inferior but because you didn't know anything about the history of trance, you were extremely young back then.

So fucking what? I wasn't alive during World War 2, but that doesn't mean I don't know what happened. If you're 25 then in 1991 you were 10, which is also too young to know anything about underground dance music. And don't tell me your age difference means you know more than me, because you apparently managed to miss the entire development of ambient house and even laughed and claimed it was a genre I'd made up.

Anyway, that isn't how you used it at all. You kept making comments about how I was a stupid teenager and other purely insulting comments that had fuck all to do with what I knew or didn't know.

Also, I didn't argue with you about the "history of trance", it was about Orbital II.

All in all: don't get pissed off at him for doing to you what you did to me.

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fucking what? I wasn't alive during World War 2, but that doesn't mean I don't know what happened. If you're 25 then in 1991 you were 10, which is also too young to know anything about underground dance music. And don't tell me your age difference means you know more than me, because you apparently managed to miss the entire development of ambient house and even laughed and claimed it was a genre I'd made up.

I was 14 though when i started buying electronic music trance and techno included. I bought the "in-sides" album when it first came out and many of early-nineties trance compilations and albums. This doesn't mean that i'm more clever but that i have hands-on experience on the specific subject and thats because i was directly exposed to it.You can learn about WWII in the history books but surely, someone who lived and experienced WWII would be more informed about the events that took place back then.

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Anyway, that isn't how you used it at all. You kept making comments about how I was a stupid teenager and other purely insulting comments that had fuck all to do with what I knew or didn't know.

My responses were extremely soft System-J compared to what you were saying there...do i have to remind you how the whole thing had happened. I have stated that in my personal opinion, orbital's lush 3.1 could be considered as early trance and your first response was "BOLLOCKS" lol. I 'll not continue...

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All in all: don't get pissed off at him for doing to you what you did to me.

LOL, don't play the victim now...your language was terrible and i've responded appropriately. Despite that i've managed to give facts, links and information and argue at a quite serious level about genre and sub-genre definitions. That's all.

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Originally posted by PETRAN I was 14 though when i started buying electronic music trance and techno included. I bought the "in-sides" album when it first came out and many of early-nineties trance compilations and albums. This doesn't mean that i'm more clever but that i have hands-on experience on the specific subject and thats because i was directly exposed to it.You can learn about WWII in the history books but surely, someone who lived and experienced WWII would be more informed about the events that took place back then.

This seems like a pointless tangent, but reading various viewpoints and collating evidence from different observers will give a broader and more accurate picture than someone's personal experiences. To use the WW2 analogy- soldiers who fought on the Normandy beaches probably have a hell of a lot less idea what happened than historians who have read countless interviews, studied maps and drawn up an overall conclusion.

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My responses were extremely soft System-J compared to what you were saying there...do i have to remind you how the whole thing had happened. I have stated that in my personal opinion, orbital's lush 3.1 could be considered as early trance and your first response was "BOLLOCKS" lol. I 'll not continue...

My first response was "I think it's a great album, but I don't see how it's trance, except possibly Halcyon". Then you came in with your usual wave of "WTF? Have you even listened to it?" and gave me a round of the usual poorly structured crap you've shown off in this thread. And I remember you calling me stuff like a "pure bastard" and insulting me constantly, where as I called you an idiot when you demonstrated some shocking lapses of logic.

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LOL, don't play the victim now...your language was terrible and i've responded appropriately. Despite that i've managed to give facts, links and information and argue at a quite serious level about genre and sub-genre definitions. That's all.

In this thread you've swore prolifically, implied that everyone who disagreed with you is stupid and said stuff like "How stupid can you be?????" By your own reasoning, you are fair game for aged-based insults.

As for you facts, links and information, you quoted big chunks of Wikipedia, distorted my argument to death, used terrible logic and then shot yourself in both feet and the head by quoting a magazine and disagreeing with it in the same post.

I have no desire to resurrect that argument so I'm going no further. Put simply, you're a fucking hypocrite in this thread and with the way you argue you deserve everything that is coming to you.

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Originally posted by PETRAN What a poor response Tiesto14...lol...fuck your name is "Tiseto14" anyway i shouldn't expect more...what you've done there is selectively take single line sentences and respond with your usual brain-washed shit...you missed the FACTS and NUMBERS i've posted there, you missed what my whole point was, you didn't evolve the conversation in any direction, you didn't appropriately respond to my arguments, your arguments were shit and weren't different from your previou post, your reasoning was shit, your assumptions shitier (me on the hezbolla's side ) and your personal attacks even shitier and i don't care about personal attacks per se but what they were stating lol, that i'm a "little boy" and stuff...You are the "TIESTO-14" FOR FUCKS SAKE!Not Me!!!I am 25 thank you and I DON'T FUCKING CARE HOW OLD ARE YOU and i DON'T WANT TO BASE MY RESPONSE IN YOUR FUCKING AGE. (although i should probably consider your "mental age" which is probably very low but anyway i'll be good to you) I could easily dispute EVERY SINGLE LINE you posted there ,EVERY SINGLE RESPONS WAS WRONG. "A war against terorrist organizations"?Ok to bad that the dead form the Hezbolla were 40 and the innocent lebanese 1,100 DEAD PEOPLE (3.800 WOUNDED).I don't know were to start...about the innapropriate use of missiles in populated areas...i gave you what the targets, they were...fleeing fucking civivlians, hospitals, residences and your response "it's a war shit happens its TRASH. tHE FACT THAT fucking Hezbolla is in the goverment sdays NOTHING.Some of their members have some political positions but their power and significance is low. The fac that they are in the goverment doesn;t make them THE goverment. I'll not continue since your response will be shit again.

Its kids like you that make me want to come knock on your door and bash your liberal fuck face in with a 12 pound hammer....you will never be convinced from your liberal hippie peace solves everything naive views......so i bid farewell with a fuck you and the rest of your liberal pals.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J As for you facts, links and information, you quoted big chunks of Wikipedia, distorted my argument to death, used terrible logic and then shot yourself in both feet and the head by quoting a magazine and disagreeing with it in the same post.

Typical liberal actions....Petron you are a liberal sheep....now go ba ba yourself and follow your liberal herd.

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This seems like a pointless tangent, but reading various viewpoints and collating evidence from different observers will give a broader and more accurate picture than someone's personal experiences. To use the WW2 analogy- soldiers who fought on the Normandy beaches probably have a hell of a lot less idea what happened than historians who have read countless interviews, studied maps and drawn up an overall conclusion.

Yes soldiers who fought there, but how about people who lived in their homes reading newspapers about strategies, decisions taken political games, etc. etc. etc. Also the fact that somebody was directly exposed to war doesn't mean he/she can't have a critical mind, free form bias and so also read countless reviews (which were "Fresh" and not distorted from time) study maps and draw an overall valid conclusion. IMO the overall WW2 analogy is loose though. I was directly exposed to early trance and techno and simply put i have a lot of stuff that are very hard to find in present day, even in the internet. I was directly informed by interviews of the artists back then you can't easily find an interview by dance 2 trance today. I lived the whole think and this surely helped me to have a quite good representation of early trance and techno.

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In this thread you've swore prolifically, implied that everyone who disagreed with you is stupid and said stuff like "How stupid can you be?????" By your own reasoning, you are fair game for aged-based insults.

Ok i'm not continuing this. You were very harsh and you'll have to admit it.Youa re an asshole right now stating that i;m a "fucking" hypocrite and other beautifull stuff. Don't play the victim system-j you are a well know rude asshole here. I'm sure many people will agree with me.

Also i didn't use the phrase "how stupid can you be" for no reason...read and see for yourself...i get pissed off by some types of egocentric bastards who live in their luxury homes, masterbating in front of their computers and think that he whole world lives in plastic luxury like them...

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As for you facts, links and information, you quoted big chunks of Wikipedia, distorted my argument to death, used terrible logic and then shot yourself in both feet and the head by quoting a magazine and disagreeing with it in the same post.

My facts and information were streight and as you said we don't have to come back again. You have confused many thinks, you had taken subjective genre knowledge as objective and you were fighting to death in order to prove your point, you confused "genres" with "scenes" and your knowledge of early trance and techno structure was limited. Also don't bring this "Ambient-techno-house-trance" sub-genre again lol , for god's sake this genre is made up by probably Ishkur lol (i bet he was the one to post the information which was one paragraph in the wikipedia!).Wikipedia was stating that ambient-house were projects like "juno reactor", "Pete Namlook" and "the KLF" which can all be considered as early "techno/trance/ambient".It's easy to come up with names and categorise and re-categorise artists and tunes in order to make them "special" but this proves nothing. Thinks back then were very loose...artists were coming with albums that had a bit of techno some trancier songs (which was nothing more than techno with ambient pads and maybe a few of bleeby and acid arpeggiations )some ambient.There's no objective way to prove that orbital were "ambient-house" since there are no clear-cut "ambient-house" criteria. if they sound like "ambient-house" to you then be it...That's what i was trying to explain the last time and you were always accusing me of "lapses in logic" and stuff like that without having any logical arguments to prove the opposite. Now please don't respond to this "genre-think" again. I have my opinion you have yours they differ and thats all there is.

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Typical liberal actions....Petron you are a liberal sheep....now go ba ba yourself and follow your liberal herd.

Oh yes sir, i'm a liberal sheep , show me the light. What should i do? Should i grab my riffle and in the name of G.W. Bush and God blow a few mulim heads (terorrists)and bring justice to the world?Furhtemore, do i need to listen to tiesto?

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Originally posted by PETRAN Oh yes sir, i'm a liberal sheep , show me the light. What should i do? Should i grab my riffle and in the name of G.W. Bush and God blow a few mulim heads (terorrists)and bring justice to the world?Furhtemore, do i need to listen to tiesto?

By all means kill a terrorist...or should we let all those fun loving bunnys do as the please? you will say yes...that is why you are insane.

And whats with you and Tiesto....i havent listened to tiesto in a few years...not like it matters but u act like listening to Tiesto is a crime.

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Originally posted by trancinchink =(... throughout history you can clearly see that from the time humans became somewhat civilized, religion has played a huge factor in so many wars. why does so much killing and evil have to happen in the name of god?

This reminds me of something Sir Leigh Teabing tells Sophie on Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code":

�As long as there has been one true God, there has been killing in his name.�

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Originally posted by qussay Also , the stero-types about arabs and muslims in general should be erased from people's minds ( erase might be a fantasy , but at least reconsidered), along with equality on all levels , from the media , to the help and aid given from the west , to foreign policies etc ... There is alot of pressure on arabs/muslims !

It's not so much of a fantasy. Time will eventually change that, just like it did with Christianity. People nowadays seem to have forgotten about all the atrocities they committed, like the Crusades.

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Originally posted by isthatacow2 there are more similarities between pearl harbor and 9/11 then you might think. i actually watched a documentary by a UW professor about this very topic. i dont really want to get into it, but both attacks were surprise attacks. the biggest striking similarity is that they both caused america to enter a war. you also say that people dont give a shit when someone bombs africa or something. NO SHIT! thats not what was even being talked about. were talking about whether people would care if someone bombed US people and US land.

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Originally posted by Azz3D correct me if i'm wrong but roosevelt knew something was going to go down at pearl harbor but he ignored it

And so with 9/11. I don't care how much the Pentagon denies having solid evidence about it happening, they can just kiss my ass. With how small science and technology have made the world these days it's fucking unvelivable that they didn�t know. Period.

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Originally posted by PETRAN The current situation does not resemble a "proper war". Israel has declared a war against some extreme muslim organization and initiates extreme attacks on lebanese innocent population that have NOTHING TO DO with this.Yep, that's right,Israeli soldiers probably think in this way before pushing the missile button: "sooo, is this a hezbollah building or just normal residence???Well whatever,i'll fire"!!! It would be like , Greece or Turkey starting attacks against each other because "some party and not the official greek and turkish governements" was doing weird naughty things in Aegean sea. In the current case, (as in America against Iraq)Israel has the power to do whatever it wants, they have America on their sides they have the weapons and they kill without any resistance.They have the intelligent bombs wereas the others have ermmm... stones...(the same as in Iraq).

You know, one of the stupidest statements to come out of the White House this year has to be that they did not support an immediate cease of the attacks in the Israel-Lebanon war. Fuck! now that I think about it, it's the stupidest statement they have issued...EVER!

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Originally posted by *InVeRs3* I don't think that the interment of 120,000 Japanese Americans is right, but you make it seem like the Japanese are the victims. Japan was a super dick in Asia. The rape of nanking, the bataan death march, Japan was as a dick as anyone could be. I'm not saying that japan deserved to be nuked, but the USA needed to stop Japan's dickery one way or another.

And by thinking this way you are supporting one of the things that have fucked up the world so badly in the last 50 years or so. The US thinks they own the whole fucking planet and therefore they have the right to intervene (and by intervene I mean bomb) in every single conflict (as long as it means $$$ to them of course). Shit, Bush has made it perfectly clear that he's practically counting the minutes until Fidel Castro dies and jump to Cuba like a vulture on a rotting carcass!

Of course there are times when "dickery" is going on, and something has to be made, and many times the US is the only one who does something about it but I fail to recognize how more "dickery" is the solution.

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Originally posted by PETRAN What a poor response Tiesto14...lol...fuck your name is "Tiseto14" anyway i shouldn't expect more...what you've done there is selectively take single line sentences and respond with your usual brain-washed shit...you missed the FACTS and NUMBERS i've posted there, you missed what my whole point was, you didn't evolve the conversation in any direction, you didn't appropriately respond to my arguments, your arguments were shit and weren't different from your previou post, your reasoning was shit, your assumptions shitier (me on the hezbolla's side ) and your personal attacks even shitier and i don't care about personal attacks per se but what they were stating lol, that i'm a "little boy" and stuff...You are the "TIESTO-14" FOR FUCKS SAKE!Not Me!!!I am 25 thank you and I DON'T FUCKING CARE HOW OLD ARE YOU and i DON'T WANT TO BASE MY RESPONSE IN YOUR FUCKING AGE. (although i should probably consider your "mental age" which is probably very low but anyway i'll be good to you)

In other words: that was some lame ass set, go back to school, learn how to mix properly, learn how to maintain the flow and we'll talk then. ROTFL!!!

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Originally posted by PETRAN Yes soldiers who fought there, but how about people who lived in their homes reading newspapers about strategies, decisions taken political games, etc. etc. etc. Also the fact that somebody was directly exposed to war doesn't mean he/she can't have a critical mind, free form bias and so also read countless reviews (which were "Fresh" and not distorted from time) study maps and draw an overall valid conclusion. IMO the overall WW2 analogy is loose though. I was directly exposed to early trance and techno and simply put i have a lot of stuff that are very hard to find in present day, even in the internet. I was directly informed by interviews of the artists back then you can't easily find an interview by dance 2 trance today. I lived the whole think and this surely helped me to have a quite good representation of early trance and techno.

What does this prove exactly? Certainly not that you are automatically more knowledgable about the past than me. Someone who read newspapers at the time is still less likely to know what happened than someone who did their research on lots of evidence. All this proves is that research is the best way to know the truth- which means you being older is worth nothing.

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Ok i'm not continuing this. You were very harsh and you'll have to admit it.Youa re an asshole right now stating that i;m a "fucking" hypocrite and other beautifull stuff. Don't play the victim system-j you are a well know rude asshole here. I'm sure many people will agree with me.

Wow. I'm rude, you're rude, Tiesto14 is rude. We're all fair game, but you're the one complaining about something you've done yourself.

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Also i didn't use the phrase "how stupid can you be" for no reason...read and see for yourself...i get pissed off by some types of egocentric bastards who live in their luxury homes, masterbating in front of their computers and think that he whole world lives in plastic luxury like them...

I suppose that excuses it then? "Oh yeah, I'm a rich, ignorant Westerner, so another fucking rich, ignorant Westerner can now insult me safely."

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My facts and information were streight and as you said we don't have to come back again. You have confused many thinks, you had taken subjective genre knowledge as objective and you were fighting to death in order to prove your point, you confused "genres" with "scenes" and your knowledge of early trance and techno structure was limited.

No I didn't. That was your fucking stupidity failing to understand the argument.

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Also don't bring this "Ambient-techno-house-trance" sub-genre again lol , for god's sake this genre is made up by probably Ishkur lol (i bet he was the one to post the information which was one paragraph in the wikipedia!)

Ishkur did not create the term "ambient house". That term is as old as The KLF's album "Chill Out" and a fairly major genre. You're just talking bullshit now.

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There's no objective way to prove that orbital were "ambient-house" since there are no clear-cut "ambient-house" criteria. if they sound like "ambient-house" to you then be it...That's what i was trying to explain the last time and you were always accusing me of "lapses in logic" and stuff like that without having any logical arguments to prove the opposite.

I didn't claim Orbital were fucking ambient house you idiot. This is a fine example of you distorting what I said. You named a trance compilation with Lush on as "proof" that it was trance. I pointed out that it contained well-known ambient house tracks on it, including "Little Fluffy Clouds", arguably the genre's signature record. Then you claimed the genre didn't fucking exist!

How exactly are you going to have the first clue what genre Orbital are if you don't know a major sub-genre from the era exists? Let alone that you consider Papua New Guinea and Little Fluffy Clouds to be trance? If you think trance is that wide, then you probably do think Orbital are safely trance, but that's simply your ignorance, and being there at the time does fuck all to protect you from that.

Let's also be clear that Wikipedia is not the last word on music. It's called "Wiki" for a reason- anyone can add information to it, regardless of how much they really know. Appealing to it as an authority figure cuts no mustard.

All this is irrelevant really. What is relevant is that you're a hypocrite and you can't excuse it.

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By all means kill a terrorist...or should we let all those fun loving bunnys do as the please? you will say yes...that is why you are insane.

By all means...DON'T FUCKING KILL ANYONE YOU CANIBAL!!!catch, the bad guys-positive, put them to life-long sentences-positive, but please please, for your fucking human's(?) mind sake don't fucking kill anyone!!!Especially fleeing civilians !!!Or else these terorrists will get more angry and throw more aeroplanes at your nice computer while you posting...can't you see?As a result you will get mad (as you did before), you will get your riffle, kill some more "terorrists" (well many few random muslims as well)in middle east and they will be again pissed and throw some more aeroplanes in your brand new computer.it's a fucking blood-circle.How many computers can you afford to buy?

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What does this prove exactly? Certainly not that you are automatically more knowledgable about the past than me. Someone who read newspapers at the time is still less likely to know what happened than someone who did their research on lots of evidence. All this proves is that research is the best way to know the truth- which means you being older is worth nothing.

You are still trapped in your loose analogy. This is not only about conceptual knowledge,what happened where, who did it etc. etc. this is also about direct exposure to sensory input and that is, music that was present back in the day(and which is not now). You can find mp3s and older music, but surely some thinks are really hard to find such as early trance albums and compilations. It's also a matter of quantity. Early trance and techno was everywhere back in the day, it was "its time" and therefore my memory of it is very rich, i have many representations of early trance, house, techno and ambient tunes, plus i was living in the whole think.Today is very difficult to find reviews, interviews and specific detailed information of early trance and techno artists,about their attitudes toward music,about what they were doing etc. etc. etc.it sounds theoretically easy to search the "old documents" but unfortunately, the old documents are i many cases lost in time.

To come with your WW2 loose analogy, it would be like "how Hitler was like when he was giving a speech". Someone can find a few videos about it but someone ( e.g. an "Ex-nazi" german guy ) who would have directly attented to his speeches would have a qualitatively unique richier memory of his overall speech style e.g. facial expressions, what he was usually saying and made the crowds go mad etc. etc. You can find something about that described somewhere in a history book, but you understand that it would be radically different in relation to directly experiencing the whole thing.In the present case (music categorization which is driven by perceptual processes e.g-listening-looking), i think that direct first-person experience is of major importance.

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I suppose that excuses it then? "Oh yeah, I'm a rich, ignorant Westerner, so another fucking rich, ignorant Westerner can now insult me safely."

Some thinks i can't tolerate.

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No I didn't. That was your fucking stupidity failing to understand the argument.

Nope you still don't understand what i'm saying. That's the worst thing.It's like posting to a wall.

Now probably you want to continue with the genre naming shit. Lol be it, if you like it so much.

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Ishkur did not create the term "ambient house". That term is as old as The KLF's album "Chill Out" and a fairly major genre. You're just talking bullshit now

Oh really?I'm talking bullshot now???Please sir, if it's a "Fairly major sub-genre", please name at least twenty artists that played "Ambient house". No, don't bother with the wikipedia link that was a stupid paragraph with ten famous trance/techno/house/ambient artists. Oh no, don't bother with the twenty names...better name ten...erm i'll make it easier for you... just name five...
After doing that, please open my eyes (TA is full of wise teachers)and please explain to me how does a tune "qualifies as ambient house"?

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How exactly are you going to have the first clue what genre Orbital are if you don't know a major sub-genre from the era exists? Let alone that you consider Papua New Guinea and Little Fluffy Clouds to be trance? If you think trance is that wide, then you probably do think Orbital are safely trance, but that's simply your ignorance, and being there at the time does fuck all to protect you from that.

I've said about "Papua" and orb's "...Pulsating from the center of the ultra-world", you memory fails you and you "distort"
what i say...
If these don't qualify as trance, please explain to me how a tune qualifies as EARLY CLASSICAL trance? What are the typical characteristics of early classical trane?be carefull i'm saying "typical" because i insist in something that seems you are very dumb to understand, that genres are not objective but are just subjectively ill-defined and hence, one can only suggest if a tune contains some mean-typical characteristics which are representative of the (loosely statistically speaking) mean (proto)typical structure that defines a genre. (we should not forget that there are also considerable deviations).

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Let's also be clear that Wikipedia is not the last word on music. It's called "Wiki" for a reason- anyone can add information to it, regardless of how much they really know. Appealing to it as an authority figure cuts no mustard.

Strange, you used a wikipedia link to prove that "Ambient-house" exists.

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All this is irrelevant really. What is relevant is that you're a hypocrite and you can't excuse it.

You probably don't know what the word "hypocrite" means...it means stating something that you don't really believe. Please tell me why am i a hypocrite?!?You can't just use words just for the sounding of it...

Re: Just a few thoughts, please read

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Originally posted by globalelectro It has always amazed me how subjective music is. I was watching the news today, and the main topic was the arrest of 24 British Nationals of Pakistani descent, who were planning a terrorist attack, consisting of hijacking 10 planes while travelling from the U.K. to America. This is the latest news ive got regarding one of the most frightening situations going on in the last 100 years. You might think im a nutjob, but im not. If you just sat on your couch and watched the TV, read a newspaper or listened to the radio a bit, you would see that the world is in a transition phase, lets face it, we are in World War 3. The stage we are at right now is the same as Hitler taking over Czechoslovakia during World War 2. Lets not forget about the war in the middle east, Israel vs. Lebanon,where thousands of people have been wounded and many more have died in the past 2 weeks. Plus, North Korea Plans to launch missiles aimed at America. Plus, Iran plans to erase Israel from the Map. August 22nd is supposed to be the day that Iran will bring to life its evil plan of destroying Israel and America. Rumours say there are bombs set up in the major American Cities, such as Detroit, Miami, Los Angeles, Boston, NY, Seattle, etc, etc, etc. Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez is Iran�s ally. The war in Iraq has been going on for 3 years now... All these situations to be honest with you, make me very very very sad. And Scared. Add Global Warming, Poverty, etc, etc, etc. Now, you might be thinking, what the hell is this guy thinking, and why did he post it here. The answer is very simple. I started this post saying it has always amazed how subjective music is, and indeed, its always amazed me. One of the few pure things remaining in this world is Music, and with all these situations in the world its really comming to a second plane to me. Im, to be honest with you, FRIGHTENED. and not because of what might happen to me, but because of what this world will turn into. All the Joys the humans have, such as Music, Sex, Love, Games, etc, are part of ourselves, they make us human. Why do people have to choose war over peace? If there is so much beauty in this world to explore? Do you imagine the difference itll make if a kid picked up a guitar or sat in front of a piano instead of grabbing knifes? Music is one of the few distractions i personally have that really set me apart from my worries. And i think i might be one of the few people who are really worried about all these events happening in the world. Just think about it for a second. Charles. Links: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/10/us.security/index.html http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060807...an_package_dc_2 http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Re...le.asp?ID=23533

Stop watching glenn beck.

For all the people saying that religion is the evil of all evils, grab a history book. In the past 100 years Stalin killed 20 Million people in Soviet Russia during 1929-1939, Mao Tse-tung killed anywhere between 34 and 64 million people during the Chinese civil war of the 1930's and 1940's, and Pol Pot killed 1.7 million of his own people in the 1970's in Cambodia. All of these men hated religion and where aetheists. Take Christianity for example, less people have died in the 2000 years that Christianity has been around than the amount of people that Pol Pot killed in the 70's alone and that is including the Crusades, N. Ireland, Jews and Arabs in the Middle East, the Inquisition, and the war on terror.

Stop blaming religion and realize that wars happen due to an underlying struggle for power and if you don't think this power struggle is what is happening in the Middle East, Iran, and N. Korea open your eyes and stop finding scape goats.

Edit: how is this not in the political debate forum?

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Originally posted by weymouth For all the people saying that religion is the evil of all evils, grab a history book. In the past 100 years Stalin killed 20 Million people in Soviet Russia during 1929-1939, Mao Tse-tung killed anywhere between 34 and 64 million people during the Chinese civil war of the 1930's and 1940's, and Pol Pot killed 1.7 million of his own people in the 1970's in Cambodia. All of these men hated religion and where aetheists. Take Christianity for example, less people have died in the 2000 years that Christianity has been around than the amount of people that Pol Pot killed in the 70's alone and that is including the Crusades, N. Ireland, Jews and Arabs in the Middle East, and the Inquisition. Stop blaming religion and realize that wars happen due to an underlying struggle for power and if you don't think this power struggle is what is happening in the Middle East, Iran, and N. Korea open your eyes and stop finding scape goats. Edit: how is this not in the political debate forum?

Oh really? Did you know that more people died in the name of God than any of the tragedies you posted above. Can I get a Noah's Ark anyone? An entire world population was obliterated.

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Originally posted by stevieboy32808 Oh really? Did you know that more people died in the name of God than any of the tragedies you posted above. Can I get a Noah's Ark anyone? An entire world population was obliterated.

I was talking about wars and religion, which many people brought up being the problem with the world today or some nonsense. I was not talking about natural disasters, scripture, or the wrath of God.

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Originally posted by weymouth I was talking about wars and religion, which many people brought up being the problem with the world today or some nonsense. I was not talking about natural disasters, scripture, or the wrath of God.

My mistake Weymouth.

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Originally posted by PETRAN To come with your WW2 loose analogy, it would be like "how Hitler was like when he was giving a speech". Someone can find a few videos about it but someone ( e.g. an "Ex-nazi" german guy ) who would have directly attented to his speeches would have a qualitatively unique richier memory of his overall speech style e.g. facial expressions, what he was usually saying and made the crowds go mad etc. etc. You can find something about that described somewhere in a history book, but you understand that it would be radically different in relation to directly experiencing the whole thing.In the present case (music categorization which is driven by perceptual processes e.g-listening-looking), i think that direct first-person experience is of major importance.

Or you can watch the footage yourself and see exactly what happened without clouded memory, without one perspective and contextual bias. As historians do.

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Some thinks i can't tolerate.

And I can't tolerate hypocrisy.

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Nope you still don't understand what i'm saying. That's the worst thing.It's like posting to a wall.

Of course mate. It's me who is failing intellectually here. Of course.

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Oh really?I'm talking bullshot now???Please sir, if it's a "Fairly major sub-genre", please name at least twenty artists that played "Ambient house". No, don't bother with the wikipedia link that was a stupid paragraph with ten famous trance/techno/house/ambient artists. Oh no, don't bother with the twenty names...better name ten...erm i'll make it easier for you... just name five... After doing that, please open my eyes (TA is full of wise teachers)and please explain to me how does a tune "qualifies as ambient house"?

I don't need to.

Ambient house is well known. That you've never heard of it is not my fault. Do some fucking research, you ignorant jackass.

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I've said about "Papua" and orb's "...Pulsating from the center of the ultra-world", you memory fails you and you "distort" what i say... If these don't qualify as trance, please explain to me how a tune qualifies as EARLY CLASSICAL trance? What are the typical characteristics of early classical trane?be carefull i'm saying "typical" because i insist in something that seems you are very dumb to understand, that genres are not objective but are just subjectively ill-defined and hence, one can only suggest if a tune contains some mean-typical characteristics which are representative of the (loosely statistically speaking) mean (proto)typical structure that defines a genre. (we should not forget that there are also considerable deviations).

They sound nothing like trance. They're too short, use the wrong rhythms, the wrong sounds and the wrong structures. Of course, you lived and breathed this shit, so heaven forbid that one of the most famous ambient house records of all time by anything but what countless experts and journalists have labelled it, because of your skewed perception because you were there, man.

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Strange, you used a wikipedia link to prove that "Ambient-house" exists.

I was speaking to you in language you could understand. The details may be wrong, but I doubt Wikipedia is so inaccurate to fabricate an entire genre, especially such a well documented one.

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You probably don't know what the word "hypocrite" means...it means stating something that you don't really believe. Please tell me why am i a hypocrite?!?You can't just use words just for the sounding of it...

Fuck you. You can barely speak English, while I walked in today with an A in the subject. You pull up Tiesto14 for highlighting your age, when you did the exact same to me. Your excuse: I was being insulting. So are you in the replies Tiesto14 quoted. That's hypocrisy. You're a hypocrite. You're also thick as pigshit and twice as repellent. Just give it up while you're still in sight.

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Or you can watch the footage yourself and see exactly what happened without clouded memory, without one perspective and contextual bias. As historians do.

But it's not about facts you idiot its about the number of the tunes that i have listened!

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And I can't tolerate hypocrisy

Fuck you

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Of course mate. It's me who is failing intellectually here. Of course

Yes!!!

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Ambient house is well known. That you've never heard of it is not my fault. Do some fucking research, you ignorant jackass.

Ermmm yes it's because fucking ambient house doesn't exist ASSHOLE!!! The bad thing is that you don't know A FUCKING THING about music and the worst is that i'm trying to speak seriously with an asshole like you!

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They sound nothing like trance. They're too short, use the wrong rhythms, the wrong sounds and the wrong structures. Of course, you lived and breathed this shit, so heaven forbid that one of the most famous ambient house records of all time by anything but what countless experts and journalists have labelled it, because of your skewed perception because you were there, man.

THEY SOUND NOTHING LIKE TRANCE...THEY WERE TOO SHORT...USE THE WRONG RHYTHMS, THE WRONG SOUNDS AND THE WRONG STRUCTURES. so please ASSHOLE teach us what are the DURATION(LOOOLL), RHYTHMS, SOUNDS AND STRUCTURE OF TRANCE.(Ohh mind you ...that rules from the center of the ultraworld is more then 10 minutes. I'm informing you because you haven't heard it.)

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I was speaking to you in language you could understand. The details may be wrong, but I doubt Wikipedia is so inaccurate to fabricate an entire genre, especially such a well documented one.

Where is documented you jerk?!?What are the characteristics of ambient house?I want YOU to tell me you rude bastard!No, you don't know i knew it...

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Fuck you. You can barely speak English, while I walked in today with an A in the subject. You pull up Tiesto14 for highlighting your age, when you did the exact same to me. Your excuse: I was being insulting. So are you in the replies Tiesto14 quoted. That's hypocrisy. You're a hypocrite. You're also thick as pigshit and twice as repellent. Just give it up while you're still in sight.

Ok, i may barely speak english but i FUCKING KNOW WHAT GREEK WORDS LIKE "HYPOCRICY" MEANS YOU RUDE UNEDUCATED FUCK("A" MY ASSSSSS, what an accomplishment...a native english speaker got A in English...ROFL.Here i will award you with the medal...OF LOSERS for sitting the whole day in front of your computer posting messages in tranceaddict!) !!!Oh, and i haven't asked tiesto to stop attacking me for my age...i just found it funny to attack me for that reason when his nickname was tiesto14 braindead!!!Cheers.

Oh well, there goes the world peace

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Originally posted by PETRAN But it's not about facts you idiot its about the number of the tunes that i have listened!

It's not about the facts? Oh really? The numbers of tracks you've listened to is irrelevant if you don't know what genres they're from, which seems to be the case.

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Fuck you

Good rebuttal.

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Ermmm yes it's because fucking ambient house doesn't exist ASSHOLE!!! The bad thing is that you don't know A FUCKING THING about music and the worst is that i'm trying to speak seriously with an asshole like you!

Explain the 21 million Google returns for "ambient house" then. Even if only 1% of those results are relevant to ambient house (and not just associating "house") then that's two hundred thousand results for the term. And look at the results- countless music sites. Do you want to take a poll of TA as well to see if anyone else thinks I've made this genre up? I'd be perfectly happy to.

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THEY SOUND NOTHING LIKE TRANCE...THEY WERE TOO SHORT...USE THE WRONG RHYTHMS, THE WRONG SOUNDS AND THE WRONG STRUCTURES. so please ASSHOLE teach us what are the DURATION(LOOOLL), RHYTHMS, SOUNDS AND STRUCTURE OF TRANCE.(Ohh mind you ...that rules from the center of the ultraworld is more then 10 minutes. I'm informing you because you haven't heard it.)

Of course I've heard it. I own the entire Ultraworld album (the Double Disc UK issue too). I can photograph myself holding it up to the PC screen with this thread on if you want. However, the compilation you linked to didn't have fucking Evergrowing Pulsating Brain on, it had Little Fluffy Clouds you useless fucktard.

And I'm not going to educate you on what trance sounds like. All you'd do is disagree mindlessly.

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Where is documented you jerk?!?What are the characteristics of ambient house?I want YOU to tell me you rude bastard!No, you don't know i knew it...

Ambient house is most commonly characterised as contempory, sample-heavy ambient music usually with soft beats or rhythms. Ambient you can dance to. House you can chill to. Simply a cross between ambient and house. The clue is in the name. Of course, if you looked through Google then you could figure this out.

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Ok, i may barely speak english but i FUCKING KNOW WHAT GREEK WORDS LIKE "HYPOCRICY" MEANS YOU RUDE UNEDUCATED FUCK("A" MY ASSSSSS, what an accomplishment...a native english speaker got A in English...ROFL.Here i will award you with the medal...OF LOSERS for sitting the whole day in front of your computer posting messages in tranceaddict!)

Check the GMT time I made that post. I'd been out celebrating from 10am to 10pm, so so much for your bullshit insults.

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!!!Oh, and i haven't asked tiesto to stop attacking me for my age...i just found it funny to attack me for that reason when his nickname was tiesto14 braindead!!!Cheers.

I didn't say you asked him to stop. You started SHOUTING about it and talking bullshit as if it was a shit arguing tactic, when you do it yourself.

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Originally posted by PETRAN Oh, and i haven't asked tiesto to stop attacking me for my age...i just found it funny to attack me for that reason when his nickname was tiesto14 braindead!!!Cheers.

14 is my favorite number because i was born on the 14th of April....i was 14 in 1989 pal.

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