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Originally posted by Demoted Clovsha's not too bad at it either. I really don't know where people get this idea that Ableton is akin to just pressing play on a mix cd. I would really like to know their reasoning behind those statements.

Indeed - I was just trying to make sure my reference points were familiar to all

I just really, really want to find a way to use my CD decks in conjunction with Ableton, and can't seem to figure it out yet...

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Originally posted by nem0nic What you have is a ground loop, and that thing is probably either a direct box or a GLI (Ground Loop Isolator). You COULD go SUPER CHEAP and buy one of these... http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...ctId=2104010&cp It will take care of the problem as well, but I personally don't like the idea of lifting the ground. So I have one of these... http://www.ebtechaudio.com/humxdes.html Works like a charm.

yeah ground loop isolator, couldnt think of the name!

i'll try one of those grounded plugs too, thanks for the good idea!

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It's equivalent to using something like Traktor with Ableton, just an odd combination in my mind.

Actually, Traktor DJ Studio works really well with Ableton, since it can provide MIDI clock data to external apps or devices. The only caviat is that to get MIDI from Traktor to another app running on the same computer you need to use a 3rd program (like HUBI's MIDI loopback device).

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Will this harm the computer at all?

You should only lift the ground temporarily to see if a ground loop is the problem. I highly suggest a more professional solution if it is. I use the EbTech HumX (http://www.ebtechaudio.com/humxdes.html). I like this option because unlike using something like a GLI, it doesn't color the audio signal path at all.

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I don't know who you've been listening to use Ableton, but I assure you there is a LARGE community of DJ's out there doing things with Ableton that are simply not possible on real decks

And I am one of them. But unless you're doing preproduced sets, Ableton is VERY inferior to other DJing apps in terms of the kind of "on the fly" DJing most DJs do. Here are some examples...

Live's file browser sucks for DJing (it doesn't parse ID3 data, no notes, no metadata support for other file formats, no logical layout that doesn't involve renaming ALL your files, no "crate" options, weak searching options).

Live's beatmatching accuracy depends on ALOT of preproduction. Whether it's trimming off the silence from the beginning ot MP3s and re-encoding them to a wav, setting up all your warp markers in music with broken beats or anything that breaks time, or seperating out your loops, it all requires preproduction. DJing apps are much more robust, allowing you to map around broken beats (or doing it automatically for you), and have extensive looping options that can be based on cue points (and not seperate clips).

Live's external control options currently offer no ability for file manipulation in real time. There is no scratching interface for it, even though MIDI devices exist that send this kind of MIDI data (the KontrolDJ as an example).

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Ableton is a powerhouse, and there are a number of individuals out there (Blake Jarrell, Ritchie Hawtin, Can Costa/Ricky Ryan, Zabiela, Jaytech, Sasha, and more) who are using it as such.

There sure are, but not as their ONLY audio source. EVERYONE you mentioned combines traditional DJ equipment and/or other DJ software in thier performances. I find it REALLY funny that you put JZ in that list, since he is such an accomplished turntablist and it would be impossible for him to be the DJ he is if he were JUST using Ableton. Even Sasha will set up his Maven right next to a pair of tables and an A&H on most of his gigs. And Hawtin very actively uses TDJS at his gigs (but uses SSL when he does vinyl control in the last year or so).

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I really don't know where people get this idea that Ableton is akin to just pressing play on a mix cd. I would really like to know their reasoning behind those statements.

Using Ableton alone to DJ is like using ProTools or Cubase to DJ. It doesn't have the things working DJs need to be responsive to a crowd.

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I just really, really want to find a way to use my CD decks in conjunction with Ableton, and can't seem to figure it out yet...

You do it like everyone else does it. You run the two systems seperately and mind keeping sync. If you want your DJ app to generate a MIDI clock for you to sync Ableton to, invest in the FS2/TDJS combination.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic And I am one of them. But unless you're doing preproduced sets, Ableton is VERY inferior to other DJing apps in terms of the kind of "on the fly" DJing most DJs do. Here are some examples...

you are totally off your fucking rocker guy. let me preface this argument with a little historical fact:

there was this little guy by the name of Bing Crosby back in the early 30's that had the revolutionary idea to use this new technology called magnetic tape to prerecord his radio shows and edit them. at the time, ALL radio was live and the thought of a radio show not being performed live was insulting to most people. over time people realized that through this new technology their listening experience was being enhanced, the shows were more fluid, entertaining, and just plain sounded better. 76 years later we could not even fathom not listening to prerecorded, formatted radio, we accept it. that little guy Bing Crosby went on to become the highest paid entertainer in world history and has sold more records than micheal jackson, madonna, and prince combined.

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Originally posted by nem0nic Live's file browser sucks for DJing (it doesn't parse ID3 data, no notes, no metadata support for other file formats, no logical layout that doesn't involve renaming ALL your files, no "crate" options, weak searching options).

are you fucking kidding me? i type in luke chable and all my luke chable tunes come up. what else do you need? as long as your file was named correctly in the first place wtf do you need to rename all of your stuff for? no crate options? how about infinite audio slots to drop stuff your planning on playing that night into. or even creating folders for such.

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Originally posted by nem0nic Live's beatmatching accuracy depends on ALOT of preproduction. Whether it's trimming off the silence from the beginning ot MP3s and re-encoding them to a wav, setting up all your warp markers in music with broken beats or anything that breaks time, or seperating out your loops, it all requires preproduction. DJing apps are much more robust, allowing you to map around broken beats (or doing it automatically for you), and have extensive looping options that can be based on cue points (and not seperate clips).

i dont even understand your argument here, are you saying that it sucks that you have to warp your own tracks in ableton, where as other djing apps will more precisely beatmatch your tracks for you?

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Originally posted by nem0nic Live's external control options currently offer no ability for file manipulation in real time. There is no scratching interface for it, even though MIDI devices exist that send this kind of MIDI data (the KontrolDJ as an example).

this will come in time, but until that comes none of us should be trying to scratch anyway, plain and simple. we arent JZ so why bother?

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic There sure are, but not as their ONLY audio source. EVERYONE you mentioned combines traditional DJ equipment and/or other DJ software in thier performances. I find it REALLY funny that you put JZ in that list, since he is such an accomplished turntablist and it would be impossible for him to be the DJ he is if he were JUST using Ableton. Even Sasha will set up his Maven right next to a pair of tables and an A&H on most of his gigs. And Hawtin very actively uses TDJS at his gigs (but uses SSL when he does vinyl control in the last year or so).

ableton is my only audio source when i decide to use it live. the only reason i dont use it everytime is to avoid pissing off the other people that are playing that night by setting up things and running cables. Sasha sets up next to tables because he uses a Mac, and we all know what that means.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic Using Ableton alone to DJ is like using ProTools or Cubase to DJ. It doesn't have the things working DJs need to be responsive to a crowd.

this is hilarious...what more do you need to be responsive to a crowd other than playing the right track at the right time? what, in your world, is djing all about? manual beatmatching?

nem0nic, thanks for the help so far. Unfortunately lifting the ground did not do anything. Maybe I described the sound wrong. This is the sound that I hear:

http://www.djbrettb.net/annoying.mp3

The only time that sound starts is when the actual Torq software starts. And I get the same exact sound when using my USB SB Live sound card. Any other things I can try for that?

Blake good points overall, I woudln't attack the guy as he is not ready for a swtich to use Ableton "live" just yet. I'd totally respect that if I were you, I am kind of in the same boat as him I could go on and on you still gotta respect others who prefer manual beat matching instead. I personally would like to see a DJ "do something" with a pair of CDJs rather than see someone sit behind a screen for 2 hours unles you're Sasha and you're quite busy tweaking that custom made controller of yours... )

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Originally posted by Prism Blake good points overall, I woudln't attack the guy as he is not ready for a swtich to use Ableton "live" just yet. I'd totally respect that if I were you, I am kind of in the same boat as him I could go on and on you still gotta respect others who prefer manual beat matching instead. I personally would like to see a DJ "do something" with a pair of CDJs rather than see someone sit behind a screen for 2 hours unles you're Sasha and you're quite busy tweaking that custom made controller of yours... )

how do you know the dj is really "doing" something? it really only takes me about 1-2 mins tops to beatmatch a track manually, the other 6 i just have to stand there and look important. at least with ableton i can use dope effects, re edit songs, warp other tracks, and so on to make good use of that time instead of striking a pose or lighting a cig... and lets not even get into the whole faking shit with eq knobs that manual djs do.

my main argument is, beatmatching is a math equation, its not djing. the essentials that make up the art of djing existed LONG before beatmatching, and will continue to exist long after. djing is track selection and floor/vibe building, things that take skill and experience. everything else is just bullshit.

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you are totally off your fucking rocker guy. let me preface this argument with a completely useless and totally unrelated fact:

Fixed that for you.

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...what else do you need?

Oh, I don't know. Sorting by genre, or BPM, or by notes I've put into the ID3 tags of the music. You know... stuff EVERY OTHER FUCKING DJ APPLICATION MADE SINCE 2000 HAS. What if I don't know what specific song I want to play next, but would like to search by BPM or key instead? Again, it's fine if you've preproduced your set and KNOW that luke chable is next, but I prefer to NOT sound like a fucking robot when I spin.

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i dont even understand your argument here, are you saying that it sucks that you have to warp your own tracks in ableton, where as other djing apps will more precisely beatmatch your tracks for you?

I thought I put it pretty plainly, but obviously you don't get it. Ableton Live requires some fairly extensive preproduction before tracks are ready for any kind of on the fly performance - ESPECIALLY if you play genres that break time. Conversely, DJ apps like TDJS and Torq put beat markers in as part of the song analysis. In TDJS the beat markers do a very good job of warping around broken beats on thier own (of course you also have the option of making a beat grid on the fly, and adjusting the beat phase that is used in conjunction with the beat markers to match time).

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this will come in time, but until that comes none of us should be trying to scratch anyway, plain and simple. we arent JZ so why bother?

Speak for yourself. Some of us actually like to DJ, and there are even (hold on to yourself) TURNTABLISTS that are interested in new technology.

Blakey, you'll no doubt take offense to this. But I could give a shit, and will say it anyway.

YOU ARE NOT AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF DJ'S AS A WHOLE.

For every one of you, there are literally thousands of others that aren't "destination DJs". Someone like you CAN walk into a gig and press play. That's great. But there are also OTHER KINDS OF DJs out there who have to (or want to) work a crowd in a different way. So for every one of you, for whom DJing solely with Ableton Live is an option, there are THOUSANDS of others that wouldn't dream of it. And amazingly, some of these guys aren't confined to their bedrooms, either. Think about this the next time you break out your Ableton friendly track seperated remix of Okoboji.

The general gyst of my post was that in it's current form, Ableton Live doesn't offer the tools a majority of digital DJs want. No one's chiming in and saying that you "gotta keep it old school" and do all manual anything. I've been a proponent for digital DJing for a long time, and have been active in the development of some of the more groundbreaking products released in the last couple years. But I don't have my head so far up my own ass that I think what works for me works for everyone.

I've been DJing since 1987, and was rocking the 504 for Moon Patrol and the Freebase Society when you were singing nursery rhymes. I currently have the pleasure of working as an audio engineer for a large production house, and get to sit in front of things like an SSL 4056G and a full blown PT|HD system with a 5 bucket ProControl surface 4 days a week. But I also understand that not too many people have these tools. And as of right now, only a couple retailers I know of are offering anything approaching Ableton friendly downloads for DJs. So until it's accessable for everyone (or until Ableton releases a DJ product that addresses the current lack of functionality), I'll keep my opinion about Live.

Sorry about the drama, koolaide.

That noise definately isn't a ground loop. It sounds to me like one of your outputs might be a dual functionality output and flipped to digital. Are you hearing this sound when the only audio interface connected is the Conectiv? If that's the case, it wouldn't be a dual functionality output.

Can you explain a little more about your setup and how things are connected?

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic Fixed that for you.

I thought it was pretty obvious what I was trying to say with that. Its one of the best examples of paradigm shifts in the music industry and the way people perceive and accept entertainment, since you were talking like you were such a proponent of such things as manual beatmatching.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic Oh, I don't know. Sorting by genre, or BPM, or by notes I've put into the ID3 tags of the music. You know... stuff EVERY OTHER FUCKING DJ APPLICATION MADE SINCE 2000 HAS. What if I don't know what specific song I want to play next, but would like to search by BPM or key instead? Again, it's fine if you've preproduced your set and KNOW that luke chable is next, but I prefer to NOT sound like a fucking robot when I spin.

because not having a flow chart from your said djing applications with bpm and keys and genres laid out is not robotic? come on guy. i dont preproduce any flow to any of my dj sets at all, that would defeat the art of what djing is, see above post.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic I thought I put it pretty plainly, but obviously you don't get it. Ableton Live requires some fairly extensive preproduction before tracks are ready for any kind of on the fly performance - ESPECIALLY if you play genres that break time. Conversely, DJ apps like TDJS and Torq put beat markers in as part of the song analysis. In TDJS the beat markers do a very good job of warping around broken beats on thier own (of course you also have the option of making a beat grid on the fly, and adjusting the beat phase that is used in conjunction with the beat markers to match time).

it does not require extensive amounts of preproduction, i know a pretty good local dj here in chicago that buys his stuff on beatport and warps it at the club while hes djing. i dont preproduce anything other than analyzing files before a gig. everything else is on the fly. i could even construct my template live on the fly while playing if i had to. to say that your aforementioned programs do a perfect job analyzing files and putting in makers is idiotic, as we know no one has perfected song analysis yet.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic Speak for yourself. Some of us actually like to DJ, and there are even (hold on to yourself) TURNTABLISTS that are interested in new technology.

oh i love to dj, otherwise i wouldnt do it. the JZ stab thing was more a poke at the amount of bad scratching that happens in dance music, its very few and far between to find a good turntablist, its a dying art.

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Originally posted by nem0nic Blakey, you'll no doubt take offense to this. But I could give a shit, and will say it anyway. YOU ARE NOT AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF DJ'S AS A WHOLE.

dont flatter yourself with thinking that you could offend me by saying something like this. I never attempted to represent djing as a whole, the only thing i did say remotely close to that is that beatmatching is not THE ONLY art in djing, and to base any djs skill on wheter or not he beatmatches manually or automattically is a joke.

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Originally posted by nem0nic For every one of you, there are literally thousands of others that aren't "destination DJs". Someone like you CAN walk into a gig and press play. That's great. But there are also OTHER KINDS OF DJs out there who have to (or want to) work a crowd in a different way. So for every one of you, for whom DJing solely with Ableton Live is an option, there are THOUSANDS of others that wouldn't dream of it. And amazingly, some of these guys aren't confined to their bedrooms, either. Think about this the next time you break out your Ableton friendly track seperated remix of Okoboji.

I am a montly resident at vision in chicago and was a 2 year resident at ampersand in new orleans before the storm. dont tell me about working a crowd and proper opening etc. if i wasnt doing that, i wouldnt have the residencys i have/have had.

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Originally posted by nem0nic The general gyst of my post was that in it's current form, Ableton Live doesn't offer the tools a majority of digital DJs want.

no i think your totally wrong when your saying this, and that is the point of my argument. i dont think its the total package or tools that keep the majority of djs that you are speaking for want, its the stigmata of not manually beatmatching that they fear that has become attached to ableton.

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Originally posted by nem0nic No one's chiming in and saying that you "gotta keep it old school" and do all manual anything. I've been a proponent for digital DJing for a long time, and have been active in the development of some of the more groundbreaking products released in the last couple years. But I don't have my head so far up my own ass that I think what works for me works for everyone.

it sure didnt seem like it in your previous posts. you and others were coming across as beatmatch nazis. and dont suggest that i have my head up my own ass, thats such a cheap shot to take in public with someone who has had some success.

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Originally posted by nem0nic I've been DJing since 1987, and was rocking the 504 for Moon Patrol and the Freebase Society when you were singing nursery rhymes.

im sorry but i fell out of my chair laughing when i read this. playing raves for donnie at state palace does not mean you know how to work a floor bro, sorry.

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Originally posted by nem0nic I currently have the pleasure of working as an audio engineer for a large production house, and get to sit in front of things like an SSL 4056G and a full blown PT|HD system with a 5 bucket ProControl surface 4 days a week. But I also understand that not too many people have these tools.

not too many people need those tools guy. i know tons of producers, such as myself, that do just fine with a laptop and headphones. i think your the one with your head up your ass with such an irrelevant gear nazi post.

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Originally posted by nem0nic And as of right now, only a couple retailers I know of are offering anything approaching Ableton friendly downloads for DJs. So until it's accessable for everyone (or until Ableton releases a DJ product that addresses the current lack of functionality), I'll keep my opinion about Live.

cool i could see ableton becoming all of the things you said, easily, in the next 5-6 years.

I don't know... in MOST cases, I'd rather have a DJ stand around for 6 minutes and let a track play that some brilliant producer spent many hours making (and I want to hear), rather than hear a "DJ" hack it to bits and overlay cheesy effects just for something to do.

I'd much rather have a DJ spend those 6 minutes really thinking about which track to play next, and wow me with that.

That is the primary role of a DJ, to play great tracks in a sensible order, and present it in a well mixed fashion.

I'm not against Ableton in the least, but please, we aren't all brilliant musicians... don't bite off more than you can chew. And lay off the effects, there's only so many times a flanger sounds good.

I DJ for two reasons:

1. I love the music
2. I LIKE TO DJ

For me, I like playing on decks. Use what you feel comfortable with, and respect others choices.

quote:

Originally posted by Blake_Jarrell how do you know the dj is really "doing" something? it really only takes me about 1-2 mins tops to beatmatch a track manually, the other 6 i just have to stand there and look important. at least with ableton i can use dope effects, re edit songs, warp other tracks, and so on to make good use of that time instead of striking a pose or lighting a cig... and lets not even get into the whole faking shit with eq knobs that manual djs do. my main argument is, beatmatching is a math equation, its not djing. the essentials that make up the art of djing existed LONG before beatmatching, and will continue to exist long after. djing is track selection and floor/vibe building, things that take skill and experience. everything else is just bullshit.

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 I don't know... in MOST cases, I'd rather have a DJ stand around for 6 minutes and let a track play that some brilliant producer spent many hours making (and I want to hear), rather than hear a "DJ" hack it to bits and overlay cheesy effects just for something to do. I'd much rather have a DJ spend those 6 minutes really thinking about which track to play next, and wow me with that. That is the primary role of a DJ, to play great tracks in a sensible order, and present it in a well mixed fashion. I'm not against Ableton in the least, but please, we aren't all brilliant musicians... don't bite off more than you can chew. And lay off the effects, there's only so many times a flanger sounds good. I DJ for two reasons: 1. I love the music 2. I LIKE TO DJ For me, I like playing on decks. Use what you feel comfortable with, and respect others choices.

cool i totally agree that in most cases all the effects are totally uncalled for and have witnessed people destroy great songs with both ableton and analog djing (turntables with a pioneer mixer etc)

i also agree on the comfort issue. im not trying to say that ableton is the current end all be all of djing, it will never be. it could be the industry standard soon though, and cdjs and turntables could easily become the minority.

My setup goes (I suck at MS Paint):



And I'm hearing this sound coming straight from my mixer's headphone out as well, so I know it has nothing to do with my onboard sound (I also never had this problem when it just went decks-->mixer-->computer). Could it possibly be my USB controller, somehow? I don't think that would make sense, but that's the only thing I can think of, since I hear the exact same sound when using my other USB sound card.

I really appreciate all your help so far Thanks!

Blake, Im sorry to say this but just from reading your "immature" flaming posts to nemonic I have completely lost respect for you as a DJ. What you seem to fail at is understanding that it is only his opinion. He has mentioned that.

The thing that turned me off the most is the following

quote:

it sure didnt seem like it in your previous posts. you and others were coming across as beatmatch nazis. and dont suggest that i have my head up my own ass, thats such a cheap shot to take in public with someone who has had some success.

To me it sounds like youre just a cocky son of a bitch DJ that doesnt give a shit about the image you portray.

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Originally posted by Devil Bunny Blake, Im sorry to say this but just from reading your "immature" flaming posts to nemonic I have completely lost respect for you as a DJ. What you seem to fail at is understanding that it is only his opinion. The thing that turned me off the most is the following To me it sounds like youre just a cocky son of a bitch DJ that doesnt give a shit about the image you portray.

if anything i was saying that its easy for people to knock other people who have tracks out and say that they are "cocky" or "full of themselves" etc, such as the head up my own ass statement. its a cheap shot, full of sensationalism, and people believe it. i did see that it was his opinion, but he was also suggesting alot of things that certainly werent true.

Okay,I understand that, but you just need to be careful of what you say and how you say it, when you said that it sounded like something that a DJ that is full of himself would say.

Maybe they arent true about how use ableton. Yes, I have ableton and I use it to, but not alot, mostly I just stick with the traditional form of DJing.

Now back on topic, Torq looks pretty tempting, I was thinking about getting SSL or FS but this looks like it might win in my book.

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Originally posted by Devil Bunny mostly I just stick with the traditional form of DJing.

believe it or not i dj the traditional way more than i use ableton. id say i use strictly cdjs at about 80% of the gigs that i play, and i have a variety of reasons for this.

i just looked into torq the other day and it does look cool. im always glad when something new comes out like that. we get closer and closer to the perfect djing concept and the technology gets more and more advanced. its pretty exciting.

You see, I dont think that there really is a "perfect" form of DJing. I believe that there is a better way, but not perfect. The reason is EDM and DJing as a whole are completely dynamic. The needs of the DJ and the crowd are constantly changing, for better or for worse. A product that may be great for DJs today may not be what the DJ wants or needs the next day. I have to agree with you though, when something new like this comes out I get excited to. Its good to see the market refreshed, and new Ideas enter. There are some great Ideas in Torq I think Im going to have to give it a try.

You're pretty ignorant for a headliner.

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because not having a flow chart from your said djing applications with bpm and keys and genres laid out is not robotic?

What the fuck are you talking about? Flowchart? Being able to search by BPM is equal to getting a flowchart from your DJ app? You're another fine product of the New Orleans school system.

No, what I'm talking about is a robust browser. Like I very clearly said in my posts.

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to say that your aforementioned programs do a perfect job analyzing files and putting in makers is idiotic, as we know no one has perfected song analysis yet.

Didn't say ANYTHING was perfect. I just said I didn't need to fucking babysit it, warp marker it, or seperate it out.

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oh i love to dj, otherwise i wouldnt do it. the JZ stab thing was more a poke at the amount of bad scratching that happens in dance music, its very few and far between to find a good turntablist, its a dying art.

Way to reverse the engines you kiss ass. You're so hypersensitive to anything regarding manual DJing that you lay out some insane blanket statement about "none of us should be trying to scratch", then try and suck up to the same people you have bashed in both your idiotic posts. Good job!

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...the only thing i did say remotely close to that is that beatmatching is not THE ONLY art in djing, and to base any djs skill on wheter or not he beatmatches manually or automattically is a joke.

Again, the existance of any kind of auto beatmatching is not what makes Live inferior to other DJ software in my eyes. It's the other points I brought up. But you go on with your hypersensitive rant.

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no i think your totally wrong when your saying this, and that is the point of my argument. i dont think its the total package or tools that keep the majority of djs that you are speaking for want, its the stigmata of not manually beatmatching that they fear that has become attached to ableton.

I'll agree with you a little here. I think that the stigma (it's fucking STIGMA - STIGMATA is plural and refers to the marks the nails made on Jesus' palms) of having the software do the work DOES keep alot of DJs away from digital DJing - and Ableton isn't the ony app that suffers from that problem. But you can't seperate DJing from it's past, and you can't discount the majority of DJs that LIKE the interface some kind of platter gives them. Hell, the lack of appropriate interfaces for DJs has given rise to all kinds of great new devices for us to use. It's also shown manufacturers of traditional DJ products that we want MIDI functionality in our equipment, and they have responded (abeit slowly).

But even given an amazing physical interface, I would STILL think Ableton Live in it's current form SUCKS as a DJ application. I DO think they will release a DJ centric product, and their version 5 release was definately a nod to DJs. But it's not there yet.

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you and others were coming across as beatmatch nazis. and dont suggest that i have my head up my own ass, thats such a cheap shot to take in public with someone who has had some success.

Actually, no one was being any kind of nazi in this thread. And YOU were the one coming in thread crapping. We shouldn't all have to suffer for your little inferiority complex.

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...playing raves for donnie at state palace does not mean you know how to work a floor bro, sorry.

Neither does phoning it in behind a laptop, since we're trying to get nasty, "bro". I made a living DJing for 12 years. When you get there, I'll give a fuck about your opinion.

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not too many people need those tools guy. i know tons of producers, such as myself, that do just fine with a laptop and headphones. i think your the one with your head up your ass with such an irrelevant gear nazi post.

I didn't put that as well as I could have. My point there was that I am familliar with the process of production, and own or have access to the gear I need to facilitate that. But I also recognise that not everyone has the equipment, knowledge, or desire to be that guy. And in my eyes, a good DJ application is one that accomodates both those groups and everyone in between.

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cool i could see ableton becoming all of the things you said, easily, in the next 5-6 years.

So can I.

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Originally posted by Devil Bunny You see, I dont think that there really is a "perfect" form of DJing. I believe that there is a better way, but not perfect. The reason is EDM and DJing as a whole are completely dynamic. The needs of the DJ and the crowd are constantly changing, for better or for worse. A product that may be great for DJs today may not be what the DJ wants or needs the next day. I have to agree with you though, when something new like this comes out I get excited to. Its good to see the market refreshed, and new Ideas enter. There are some great Ideas in Torq I think Im going to have to give it a try.

i didnt mean one perfect form or one perfect program, i meant what i said, the concept behind it. the ability to do anything and in many ways. i think we are growing closer to this with each new idea that comes on the market. eventually it will be all one solid idea, a swiss army knife for live music performance and djing.

@djkoolaide

If you unhook the mix return line from your mixer to the computer's LINE IN does it still squeal?

I would have to agree with you if it does and think that it is probably your USB controller. You could test this with a cheap USB interface.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic You're pretty ignorant for a headliner.

i didnt realize i was a headliner, but if it makes you feel good to talk shit to one, go ahead.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic What the fuck are you talking about? Flowchart? Being able to search by BPM is equal to getting a flowchart from your DJ app?

yeah being able to click and get the results of every song lined up for you in the same key and bpm, id say thats pretty robotic. that was the original argument, was it not?

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic You're another fine product of the New Orleans school system.

i went to bonnabel in jefferson parish, not new orleans. and yes new orleans school systems are the bane of existance to modern education, thats why you shouldnt brag about playing to the victims of it at shitty raves on canal street.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic Way to reverse the engines you kiss ass. You're so hypersensitive to anything regarding manual DJing that you lay out some insane blanket statement about "none of us should be trying to scratch", then try and suck up to the same people you have bashed in both your idiotic posts. Good job!

i didnt say none of us should be trying to scratch, i said none of us were a JZ and that its hard to find good turntablists these days, but put words in my mouth please, rub some more sensationalism all over it and top it off with a "you have your head stuck up your ass because you write music" cheap shot and we can just go back and forth all night.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic I'll agree with you a little here. I think that the stigma (it's fucking STIGMA - STIGMATA is plural and refers to the marks the nails made on Jesus' palms)

sorry i watched stigmata last week, but if treating this argument like a spelling bee is going to help you create a better case, go right ahead.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic of having the software do the work DOES keep alot of DJs away from digital DJing - and Ableton isn't the ony app that suffers from that problem. But you can't seperate DJing from it's past, and you can't discount the majority of DJs that LIKE the interface some kind of platter gives them.

but this will change over time, id say as quickly as 5-6 years.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic Hell, the lack of appropriate interfaces for DJs has given rise to all kinds of great new devices for us to use. It's also shown manufacturers of traditional DJ products that we want MIDI functionality in our equipment, and they have responded (abeit slowly).

yes id love to see more allen and heath type universal mixer + midi controllers but w/ audio hookups in the FRONT.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic But even given an amazing physical interface, I would STILL think Ableton Live in it's current form SUCKS as a DJ application. I DO think they will release a DJ centric product, and their version 5 release was definately a nod to DJs. But it's not there yet.

this is where we totally disagreed, i think ableton is so far the best and most uninhibiting one on the market thus far.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic Actually, no one was being any kind of nazi in this thread. And YOU were the one coming in thread crapping. We shouldn't all have to suffer for your little inferiority complex.

well im sorry for coming off as such. this is probably the millionth ableton argument ive been in this week.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic Neither does phoning it in behind a laptop, since we're trying to get nasty, "bro". I made a living DJing for 12 years. When you get there, I'll give a fuck about your opinion.

ok guy playing at skate country on airline highway is not that big of an achievement. get over yourself. if youve been making a living djing for 12 years that would make you about 8 years too old to be posting on this board anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic I didn't put that as well as I could have. My point there was that I am familliar with the process of production, and own or have access to the gear I need to facilitate that. But I also recognise that not everyone has the equipment, knowledge, or desire to be that guy. And in my eyes, a good DJ application is one that accomodates both those groups and everyone in between.

no your point was that you wanted to brag about all the overpriced shit you get to fuck with.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic So can I.

omg we agreed.

I agree with whomever said that if you have to go into internal mode to get at the good features then it would be better just to use Ableton live instead.

That was me

Really you get two extra things:

1. Rewire
2. Auto-beatmatching

For number 1, a couple points:

1. Use can use VST's in Torq directly.
2. For launching clips and samples, you can also use torq directly (albeit not all perfectly synced using external control).

For number 2:
1. I don't care to use it anyway, and I'd rather use ableton if I want perfect beatmatching.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild I agree with whomever said that if you have to go into internal mode to get at the good features then it would be better just to use Ableton live instead.

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