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I have a question, how much of this debate resembles religious debates, i mean "the aliens dont want to interfere they want us to be free but theyre watching" doesnt that sounds an awful lot like the christian idea of god hehe, hey he's there, he's watching, but he wants you to take your own decisions This debate IS mostly from what im reading pure conjeture(sp?). There is no actual proof, if you want to believe in it, feel free to do so, but for crying out loud dont post like its the irreversible, undeniable truth, be a bit more humble because there ovbiously no smoking gun here.

To anyone interested in UFO's and paranormal, I HIGHLY recommend a mind-blowing book series by Dolores Cannon, called "Convoluted Universe". She's a well-respected hypnotist ;-)

There are two books in the series, Book 1 and 2.

http://www.amazon.com/Convoluted-Un...e/dp/1886940827

my problem is some people here seem to have a pre-disposition to believe anything that fits nicely into their belief system. something as far-fetched as alien visitors that control the governments or a government conspiracy to hide the truth SHOULD need a lot more than a few bright lights in the sky or some "tell all" novels to convince people.

ths onus isnt on me to disprove anything, its your theory, thus your responsibility to prove some evidence. and you havent. and cant. whilst im not ruling out the possibility of other life, this idea that theyre here already is believed far too quickly by people, simply because they want to believe it, rather than some logical and irrefutable proof of anything.

the fact that you also believe things like diana was murdered just makes me think you're all too quick to swallow things that have much simpler and more logical answers.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Alright, well if you dont believe in aliens, I respect that - you dont have to. The information I use on aliens is mostly based on Philip Corso and William Cooper. Those guys served in the high eschelons of US military, and they have credibility. There is really no "factual" information on aliens out there, other than some paintings and architectures, all the facts are locked within the government vaults. Please dont pick on our conversations, because I am not backing off and there's really no strong evidence other than these great books on aliens and other than the evidence from the history. So I cant really say you're wrong ... but I am going with my instincts on this one. The truth will eventually come out, this cant be hidden forever. Please dont bother disproving this UFO phenomenon topic, its not going to do anything positive. However, if you have any ideas, points and evidence, please share it with us here. Thanks!

All the conjetures from history that you guys bring up HAVE BEEN DISPROVED. Seriously, many a test are out there on how all those expectacular buildings were built. It IS possible and IT WAS possible to build them with the technology they had. Stop making it sound like there is no proof or no research done on why and how and when ancient societies dissappeared and how they built their cities. All this "oh look at their buildings some aliens most of helped them" is getting quite ridiculous, go do some more research instead of blabbering on.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN my problem is some people here seem to have a pre-disposition to believe anything tha

...are you going to finish your sentence

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Alright, well if you dont believe in aliens, I respect that - you dont have to. The information I use on aliens is mostly based on Philip Corso and William Cooper. Those guys served in the high eschelons of US military, and they have credibility. There is really no "factual" information on aliens out there, other than some paintings and architectures, all the facts are locked within the government vaults. Please dont pick on our conversations, because I am not backing off and there's really no strong evidence other than these great books on aliens and other than the evidence from the history. So I cant really say you're wrong ... but I am going with my instincts on this one. The truth will eventually come out, this cant be hidden forever. Please dont bother disproving this UFO phenomenon topic, its not going to do anything positive. However, if you have any ideas, points and evidence, please share it with us here. Thanks!

Yeah right on. Nothing we are saying is set in stone truth, it's mostly speculation, with most based upon stuff we've read and seen on TV and made up our own minds about. That's what you have to do. You have to really read about it first and look at the evidence at hand, and then make up your mind. It's mostly those who haven't sat down and read a book about it, that think it's all fake. There's just so much crap out there. I admit, that it's hard sorting through what is credible and what is not, and unfortunitely, there isn't much credible out there. There are famous cases though, that do seem pretty credible...from high ranking people or from ordinary people who had no clue about the phenomenon...before it existed in the public conscious...like the Betty & Barney Hill case.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium To anyone interested in UFO's and paranormal, I HIGHLY recommend a mind-blowing book series by Dolores Cannon, called "Convoluted Universe". She's a well-respected hypnotist ;-) There are two books in the series, Book 1 and 2. http://www.amazon.com/Convoluted-Un...e/dp/1886940827

What the crap, hypnotists now!?! Hypnosis has been proven to be complete and utter bullshit, this is the last drop lol im leaving this threat. Hypnosis has been widely disproven by psychologist because it basically inplants ideas into peoples heads, nothing else.

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Originally posted by venomX I have a question, how much of this debate resembles religious debates, i mean "the aliens dont want to interfere they want us to be free but theyre watching" doesnt that sounds an awful lot like the christian idea of god hehe, hey he's there, he's watching, but he wants you to take your own decisions This debate IS mostly from what im reading pure conjeture(sp?). There is no actual proof, if you want to believe in it, feel free to do so, but for crying out loud dont post like its the irreversible, undeniable truth, be a bit more humble because there ovbiously no smoking gun here.

I am not saying I am absolutely certain, this is a very weak topic. I just believe in this. In my opinion there's strong evidence from former government and military officials of high ranks, architecture and art. Its not conclusive by any means. I believe that the truth will come out eventually.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid ...are you going to finish your sentence

haha, see edit

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I am not saying I am absolutely certain, this is a very weak topic. I just believe in this. In my opinion there's strong evidence from former government and military officials of high ranks, architecture and art. Its not conclusive by any means. I believe that the truth will come out eventually.

Then STOP pushing it out there like its true, seriously, the way you write things AFFECTS the way people interpret them.

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Originally posted by venomX All the conjetures from history that you guys bring up HAVE BEEN DISPROVED. Seriously, many a test are out there on how all those expectacular buildings were built. It IS possible and IT WAS possible to build them with the technology they had. Stop making it sound like there is no proof or no research done on why and how and when ancient societies dissappeared and how they built their cities. All this "oh look at their buildings some aliens most of helped them" is getting quite ridiculous, go do some more research instead of blabbering on.

Well how do you explain this....

The Egyptians supposedly built all of the pyramids at Giza. But then there's this "step pyramid" that was crudely built out of mud..not brick/stone. How do you go from building something so pathetic as that, to something so big as the Great Pyramid?? With rollers?? Tens of Thousands of slaves? Just to build these great Pyramids for tombs and then at one point...stop making them? I'm of the theory they built the step pyramid as a way to duplicate these pyramids they saw and occupied, and another civilization, no not alien...built the Pyramids before them, that had the technology to do so...and they weren't used as tombs until the Egyptians came along and built a civilization around them. I think man was much more advanced than what we commonly are lead to believe, and somewhere along the lines...we lost this knowledge and had to start over. The Egyptians, or perhaps another group of people after them, built the step pyramid. The Egyptians could have built it and were more advanced than what we think...thats another possibility.

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Originally posted by venomX Then STOP pushing it out there like its true, seriously, the way you write things AFFECTS the way people interpret them.

Yeah he is, i'm not trying to with my stuff. The whole alien base thing, it's speculation, I don't claim for it to be true, however part of me does believe it.

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Originally posted by Spirit5 Well how do you explain this.... The egyptians supposedly built all of the pyramids at Giza. But then there's this "step pyramid" that was crudely built out of mud..not brick/stone. How do you go from building something so pathetic as that, to something so big as the Great Pyramid?? With rollers?? Tens of Thousands of slaves? Just to build these great Pyramids and then at one point...stop making them? I'm of the theory they built the step pyramid as a way to duplicate these pyramids they saw and occupied, and another civilization, no not alien...built the Pyramids before them, that had the technology to do so...and they weren't used as tombs until the Egyptians came along and built a civilization around them.

so, are you going to insert "aliens" into everything we dont understand? do you really think thats a suitable answer? better than simply "hey, i dont know" ??

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN so, are you going to insert "aliens" into everything we dont understand? do you really think thats a suitable answer? better than simply "hey, i dont know" ??

Uh no, I never said aliens built the pyramids did I? I don't believe that...I don't believe aliens built all of these temples around the world. Man did, but with technology/knowledge that we think they didn't possess. It wasn't just thousands of slaves or rollers and planks as some archaeologists lead us to believe. I don't atribute everything to aliens, heck I don't atribute all UFO sightings to "Alien Spaceships" but they are just that...UFOs. The natural phenomenon theory doesn't hold much water in all cases, nor does experimental aircraft either (which is possible but it has some holes as i've noted).

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Well how do you explain this.... The Egyptians supposedly built all of the pyramids at Giza. But then there's this "step pyramid" that was crudely built out of mud..not brick/stone. How do you go from building something so pathetic as that, to something so big as the Great Pyramid?? With rollers?? Tens of Thousands of slaves? Just to build these great Pyramids for tombs and then at one point...stop making them? I'm of the theory they built the step pyramid as a way to duplicate these pyramids they saw and occupied, and another civilization, no not alien...built the Pyramids before them, that had the technology to do so...and they weren't used as tombs until the Egyptians came along and built a civilization around them. I think man was much more advanced than what we commonly are lead to believe, and somewhere along the lines...we lost this knowledge and had to start over.

Here you go, links of the construction techniques used to built pyramids. Also notice the 1 century difference between the step pyramid and the other pyramids, i would say 100years is a good amount of time to perfect a building technique.

Overview of Egypt Pyramid Construction

Smithsonian Encyclopedia: Egyptian Pyramids

More

EDIT: Actual tests have been conducted for those techniques, same for the Easter Island statues, and it didnt require that many men, and wasnt that costly. The last link supplies some of that info.

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Originally posted by venomX What the crap, hypnotists now!?! Hypnosis has been proven to be complete and utter bullshit, this is the last drop lol im leaving this threat. Hypnosis has been widely disproven by psychologist because it basically inplants ideas into peoples heads, nothing else.

Yeah, right. In this case, in this Dolores Cannon book series, the person under hypnotism actually corrects the author, not the vice versa.

Yeah, like lets say you firmly believe in something, and then under hypnotism you find out its opposite. Then when you come back, you still stick to your original point and you dont even remember what happened in the process.

Thats what Dolores Cannon does.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Yeah, right. In this case, in this Dolores Cannon book series, the person under hypnotism actually corrects the author, not the vice versa. Yeah, like lets say you firmly believe in something, and then under hypnotism you find out its opposite. Then when you come back, you still stick to your original point and you dont even remember what happened in the process. Thats what Dolores Cannon does.

Just because shes good at giving out cues doesnt mean its true. And some research would have to be done into her methods to see exactly what she does, but in general hypnotists have no credibility. You want to amuse yourself? the simplest form of disconfirmation for most of this stuff: the Amazing Randy. I can tell you this, manipulation under hypnosis is not hard at all, and just by how memory works all this is BS. Memories are actively constructed, ie. your current knowledge affects what and how you remember. Uncovering memories all of the sudden just doesnt happen with our neural mechanisms.

what do you guys think about our own moon??why do you think we havent been able to go back?Did someone told us not go back?
and finally do you guys believe that Nasa is flitering all the information/images from space before it gets to us?

Before I go to sleep, I'd like to comment on the Cheops Pyramid.

Here are some things scientists have failed to note properly on:

1) Cheops Pyramid is actually located at the CENTER OF THE EARTH'S LANDMASS. If you take your flat world map, starting on Americas on the left, Giza plateau is EXACTLY in the center. Coincidence?

2) 2 million or so stones were used, average weight of 10 tons. Many stones were precisely cut to accomodate the design. This is not just a pyramid-like design, it has passageways, chambers and shafts that would easily disprove the considered official story of dragging the stone up using slave labour. People who built this had plans, magnificent ideas and employed workforce to make sure the stones fit perfectly. Its now been widely acknowledged that no slaves were used building this, but actual workers.

3) Where did the massive number of stones come from??? The nearest place to carve rock is nearly 5 miles away, on the OTHER end of Nile river.

4) Perfectly aligned shafts of the Great Pyramid once pointed exactly at the main star in the Orion constellation. It is believed by some that the Pyramid was actually build at around 11,000 B.C., when the Orion constellation corresponding star shone directly into the shaft.

5) Here;s some food for thought: the so-called King's "tomb" is actually too big to have been carried into the Pyramid. It was placed there before the construction finished. It is actually not a tomb and there's no evidence whatsoever that it was used for burial in the first place.

6) Sphinx is believed to have been built long before the Great Pyramid. It was once almost completely covered by sand, and its been excavated out of its "tomb" not that long ago ;-)

7) The Pyramid was constructed with absolute mathematical precision, which today's mathematicians find hard to believe - how come Egyptians built something to advanced and magnificent as Keops Pyramid out of nowhere? Where did they get the complex mathematical knowledge in 2000-3000 BC? It would require a lot of work and time for our currently advanced civilization to even match this masterpiece.

8) The entire 5mile area of the Giza plateau is perfectly flat ... these Egyptians were some really good architects, eh?

9) New chambers and rooms have been found since 1990, placing holes in the official story on the Pyramids. One of the new rooms was found beside King's. Should these rooms be called "Sister's Chamber", "Princess Chamber"? There's even a tunnel connecting to a room under the Sphinx, the protector of the Pyramids' "secret".


Some great examples on the magnificence of architeture:

http://www.aiwaz.net/modules.php?na...=article&sid=15
more on above: http://www.aiwaz.net/giza/

There's some better info I have elsewhere, I have to get back to this sometime.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Before I go to sleep, I'd like to comment on the Cheops Pyramid. Here are some things scientists have failed to note properly on: 1) Cheops Pyramid is actually located at the CENTER OF THE EARTH'S LANDMASS. If you take your flat world map, starting on Americas on the left, Giza plateau is EXACTLY in the center. Coincidence? 2) 2 million or so stones were used, average weight of 10 tons. Many stones were precisely cut to accomodate the design. This is not just a pyramid-like design, it has passageways, chambers and shafts that would easily disprove the considered official story of dragging the stone up using slave labour. People who built this had plans, magnificent ideas and employed workforce to make sure the stones fit perfectly. Its now been widely acknowledged that no slaves were used building this, but actual workers. 3) Where did the massive number of stones come from??? The nearest place to carve rock is nearly 5 miles away, on the OTHER end of Nile river. 4) Perfectly aligned shafts of the Great Pyramid once pointed exactly at the main star in the Orion constellation. It is believed by some that the Pyramid was actually build at around 11,000 B.C., when the Orion constellation corresponding star shone directly into the shaft. 5) Here;s some food for thought: the so-called King's "tomb" is actually too big to have been carried into the Pyramid. It was placed there before the construction finished. It is actually not a tomb and there's no evidence whatsoever that it was used for burial in the first place. 6) Sphinx is believed to have been built long before the Great Pyramid. It was once almost completely covered by sand, and its been excavated out of its "tomb" not that long ago ;-) 7) The Pyramid was constructed with absolute mathematical precision, which today's mathematicians find hard to believe - how come Egyptians built something to advanced and magnificent as Keops Pyramid out of nowhere? Where did they get the complex mathematical knowledge in 2000-3000 BC? It would require a lot of work and time for our currently advanced civilization to even match this masterpiece. 8) The entire 5mile area of the Giza plateau is perfectly flat ... these Egyptians were some really good architects, eh? 9) New chambers and rooms have been found since 1990, placing holes in the official story on the Pyramids. One of the new rooms was found beside King's. Should these rooms be called "Sister's Chamber", "Princess Chamber"? There's even a tunnel connecting to a room under the Sphinx, the protector of the Pyramids' "secret". Some great examples on the magnificence of architeture: http://www.aiwaz.net/modules.php?na...=article&sid=15 more on above: http://www.aiwaz.net/giza/ There's some better info I have elsewhere, I have to get back to this sometime.

Have you read Graham Hancock's book "Fingerprints of the Gods"? He talks about the same stuff. He notes that the Sphinx shows evidence, esp on the side of the body, of a great flood which was thought to have taken place 10,000 years ago, not 2500 or so when we were thought to believe the Sphinx was built. And the head was that of a Lion, not a Pharoh, Khafra, as they had carved it as.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium [COLOR=FF7F50] Before I go to sleep, I'd like to comment on the Cheops Pyramid. Here are some things scientists have failed to note properly on: 1) Cheops Pyramid is actually located at the CENTER OF THE EARTH'S LANDMASS. If you take your flat world map, starting on Americas on the left, Giza plateau is EXACTLY in the center. Coincidence? 2) 2 million or so stones were used, average weight of 10 tons. Many stones were precisely cut to accomodate the design. This is not just a pyramid-like design, it has passageways, chambers and shafts that would easily disprove the considered official story of dragging the stone up using slave labour. People who built this had plans, magnificent ideas and employed workforce to make sure the stones fit perfectly. Its now been widely acknowledged that no slaves were used building this, but actual workers. 3) Where did the massive number of stones come from??? The nearest place to carve rock is nearly 5 miles away, on the OTHER end of Nile river. 4) Perfectly aligned shafts of the Great Pyramid once pointed exactly at the main star in the Orion constellation. It is believed by some that the Pyramid was actually build at around 11,000 B.C., when the Orion constellation corresponding star shone directly into the shaft. 5) Here;s some food for thought: the so-called King's "tomb" is actually too big to have been carried into the Pyramid. It was placed there before the construction finished. It is actually not a tomb and there's no evidence whatsoever that it was used for burial in the first place. 6) Sphinx is believed to have been built long before the Great Pyramid. It was once almost completely covered by sand, and its been excavated out of its "tomb" not that long ago ;-) 7) The Pyramid was constructed with absolute mathematical precision, which today's mathematicians find hard to believe - how come Egyptians built something to advanced and magnificent as Keops Pyramid out of nowhere? Where did they get the complex mathematical knowledge in 2000-3000 BC? It would require a lot of work and time for our currently advanced civilization to even match this masterpiece. 8) The entire 5mile area of the Giza plateau is perfectly flat ... these Egyptians were some really good architects, eh? 9) New chambers and rooms have been found since 1990, placing holes in the official story on the Pyramids. One of the new rooms was found beside King's. Should these rooms be called "Sister's Chamber", "Princess Chamber"? There's even a tunnel connecting to a room under the Sphinx, the protector of the Pyramids' "secret".

clearly, the answer to the above 9 points is "aliens". they built the pyramids, then came back to crashland in roswell, and now spend their time underneath the burmuda triangle biding their time before unleashing their untold power across the world.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Have you read Graham Hancock's book "Fingerprints of the Gods"? He talks about the same stuff. He notes that the Sphinx shows evidence, esp on the side of the body, of a great flood which was thought to have taken place 10,000 years ago, not 2500 or so when we were thought to believe the Sphinx was built. And the head was that of a Lion, not a Pharoh, Khafra, as they had carved it as.

I havent read it, but I will now ;-) thanks for the recommendation.

Have you heard about the fascinating Bosnian Pyramids? 4 OF THEM!!! They're MUCH older than Egyptian Pyramids. They're so old, they're actually covered by vegetation, mud/soil now! Tunnels, shafts, steps have been found too. Excavation is still under way.

BTW, local history only goes 5 thousand years back .. this is BEFORE history, a lost and forgotten civilization that makes our own history and origins OBSOLETE!


http://archaeoastronomy.wordpress.c...y-and-pyramids/



http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/Excav...ramidOfSun.html

http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/Excav...amidOfMoon.html

some google videos on this:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay...&q=smailbegovic

Stone balls found near the sites, just like the same stone balls in central, southern america:

http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/Archi...StoneBalls.html


http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/Archive_files/Termal.html

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Originally posted by Magnetonium [COLOR=FF7F50] I havent read it, but I will now ;-) thanks for the recommendation. Have you heard about the fascinating Bosnian Pyramids? 4 OF THEM!!! They're MUCH older than Egyptian Pyramids. They're so old, they're actually covered by vegetation, mud/soil now! Tunnels, shafts, steps have been found too. Excavation is still under way. BTW, local history only goes 5 thousand years back .. this is BEFORE history, a lost and forgotten civilization that makes our own history and origins OBSOLETE!

Yeah it's a great book. Graham Hancock I would say is much more credible and intelligent in his writing and observations than guys like Eric von Daniken. He doesn't really atribute things to aliens, but believes in lost civilizations, though he does speculate that there could have been a lost civilization that came from Mars, or the constellation Orion, or perhaps Sirrius. He's found that many civilizations speak of this lost civilization, or a time of great technological advancement. Which was more than 5,000 years ago, perhaps 10,000, 15,000 or more. And mysteriously, something happened and we were set back, forced to make it on our own, as these advanced civilizations just disapeared. The whole notion of Atlantis sinking...being wiped out, something like this could have also destroyed other civilizations. There could have been a flood, or a time of climatic change like we are experiencing now. So the flood story in Genesis could have been a metaphor for some event that really did take place. Mind you, it wasn't caused by God....it was a natural disaster. So there are definitely many years that we have a blank in...on the human record.

Also with this pyramid you showed me, there is similar ones in England, and one discovered off the coast of England on an island. There is something about these pyramids that have been seen all over the world...and definitely it has something to do with the stars....after all a pyramid has a tip that points to the stars, or "heaven" as the ancients thought of it, and people still refer to the stars/sky as "the heavens".

Also, isnt it a strange coincidence that all these cultures ALL AROUND THE WORLD have been building Pyramids around the same time .... or more like in the same era, not connected by postal service, internet, phone - yet their designs were so much similar ... telepathy, perhaps? Or maybe they were all connected somehow ;-)

Here's a good old link to check out about the world's pyramids (the page doesnt include the NEW Bosnian pyramids ;-( Or the megalithic structures found in eastern European part of Russia, or near Kerch'

http://www.bibleufo.com/ancconstpyr.htm

these structures have even been found on the bottom of Atlantic too!!! There's all these ancient long-gone civilizations whose ruins cover earth, hidden under water, in sand, in soil ... they're gone now, like us in the future (at this pace) ... they had amazing designs and history, culture ... the Pyramids in the high mountains of Peru ...

I believe that Egyptians didnt build the Pyramids. I strongly believe that they were already in place when Egyptian civilization started off onthe ruins of the previous great post-Atlantean culture (which went down in huge hail of destruction to the bottom of Atlantic tens of thousands of years ago).

Whew, gotta take a break, sleep time ;-)

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Also, isnt it a strange coincidence that all these cultures ALL AROUND THE WORLD have been building Pyramids around the same time .... or more like in the same era, not connected by postal service, internet, phone - yet their designs were so much similar ... telepathy, perhaps? Or maybe they were all connected somehow ;-) Here's a good old link to check out about the world's pyramids (the page doesnt include the NEW Bosnian pyramids ;-( Or the megalithic structures found in eastern European part of Russia, or near Kerch' http://www.bibleufo.com/ancconstpyr.htm these structures have even been found on the bottom of Atlantic too!!! There's all these ancient long-gone civilizations whose ruins cover earth, hidden under water, in sand, in soil ... they're gone now, like us in the future (at this pace) ... they had amazing designs and history, culture ... the Pyramids in the high mountains of Peru ... I believe that Egyptians didnt build the Pyramids. I strongly believe that they were already in place when Egyptian civilization started off onthe ruins of the previous great post-Atlantean culture (which went down in huge hail of destruction to the bottom of Atlantic tens of thousands of years ago). Whew, gotta take a break, sleep time ;-)

Yep we think a like. Anyways talk to you some more later. I'm going to bed as well...tired. I'll check out the website later as well. Thanks.

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