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Arguing on the Internet is like special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

So, I don't argue

As for reasons - buy me a pint or a rum&coke at Hemingway's on a Saturday night, and I'll provide some decent ones

its a very inefficient system

if demerit points didn't increase insurance rates, more people would be willing to plead guilty and pay the fines, which fuel the system, and relieve court congestion

then of course insurance companies would FREAK, like the crooks that they are

but, to settle that, traffic enforcment could compensate insurance companies from the money lost by some of the extra money that they make from tickets

apart from that, driving in north america is horrible, noone follows the safest rule of driving, which is:
if you're slow, stay on the right! and leave space on the left for overtaking

its very dangerous when traffic is moving at 130-140km/h in the left lane, and a slow driver stays in the left lane driving 110-120, or even worse, tries to merge at the wrong moment,

long car chains on the highway are dangerous, since they force tailgating, and promote other causes of accidents

also, just so everyone is on the same page, accidents on the highway are rarely due to driving too fast, most of them are tailgating, not checking blindpot, losing control due to some circumstance, etc

this is why we DO have places in the world with no speed limits/high speed limits on hightways, with very low accident rates

people are just bad drivers, and this north american system encourages those people drive

I have gotten a lot of speeding tickets. I think the worst time I got caught, I was going 90 in a 50 zone (stupid high school...pfft), and like 4 police cars stopped me. I was really scared. And to make things worse, I forgot my wallet (with license) at home. They charged me over $200.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Z if demerit points didn't increase insurance rates, more people would be willing to plead guilty and pay the fines, which fuel the system, and relieve court congestion then of course insurance companies would FREAK, like the crooks that they are but, to settle that, traffic enforcment could compensate insurance companies from the money lost by some of the extra money that they make from tickets

FYI, demerit points have no influance on insurance rates... convictions do. Whether you get 2 or 3 points means nothing. See insurers set rates based on how big a risk you are (ie likelihood you'll fuck up and cost them a boat load of money)... convictions act as evidence that you are a risky driver. Finally, insurance companies already lose money on automobile insurance. Very very few of them would even write it if they were not forced to.

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur I routinely drive 140 on 100 highways. If there was no speed limit, I'd probably be pushing 180. Maybe faster.

Remember the time you went over 240? That was crazy fun.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Finally, insurance companies already lose money on automobile insurance.

Ha! OK This one takes the cake. Back it up.. Provide some financial statements or something... oh damn that made me laugh out loud

the system is just so retarded

my dad who was never in an accident, and has been driving for over 30 years has payed how much in car insurance over his lifetime?

ATLEAST $30,000

where has that money gone?
poof? someone's pocket?

that can repair like 6 accidents...

it has to work on loans, in my opinion, or atleast, let it be an option

-if you're at fault, an insurance company would pay for all damages, while you'd repay that debt over a period of time by a rate (with interest)

quote:

Originally posted by me@t k@tie Remember the time you went over 240? That was crazy fun.

That wasn't me. The fastest I've driven so far is just over 200 in my new car on the 401 to Waterloo (but it felt much faster because there was traffic). The fastest I've ever gone in the Bimmer was a measly 160. Cause any faster than that, and it gets scary in that car. :/

quote:

Originally posted by Superstring Ha! OK This one takes the cake. Back it up.. Provide some financial statements or something... oh damn that made me laugh out loud

You can obtain the statements yourself, they are publicly traded companies. Unfortunately, you'll normally find the statements reflect all lines rather then auto alone. At any rate, most auto insurers run with a combined ration of 1.00 - 1.10. Combined ratio is the ratio of premiums:claims+costs. A combined ratio of 1 means that for every dollar they make on premiums they spend a dollar on claims and costs. Higher then one means they are spending more money on claims and costs then they make in premium.

The reason insurance companies make money is from property insurance and investments. Auto is a money losing game... which is why Lloyds no longer writes it here. Zurich sold it's personal lines auto book of business because they were loosing too much money, Allianz was actively trying to get their license to write auto revoked (because it is the only way you can stop writing Auto in Ontario), and Markham insurance had to declare bankruptcy in 2000 because they lost so much money on Auto.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Anyone who has an inkling of knowledge on the business will back me up on this. Insurance companies either break even or lose money on personal lines automobile in Ontario.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Z the system is just so retarded my dad who was never in an accident, and has been driving for over 30 years has payed how much in car insurance over his lifetime? ATLEAST $30,000 where has that money gone? poof? someone's pocket?

30K is nothing... do you have any idea how fast 30K gets sucked up in treatment for injuries? Keep in mind, insurance companies have to pay for your rehab, lost wages, housekeeping, pain and suffering, future care, legal costs, etc if you're hurt in an auto accident. Damage claims are a joke, injuries and law suits are the reasons for high rates. I'd say the average injury claim I handle is is between 70 and 100K, many going much much higher... not including costs.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard 30K is nothing... do you have any idea how fast 30K gets sucked up in treatment for injuries? Keep in mind, insurance companies have to pay for your rehab, lost wages, housekeeping, pain and suffering, future care, legal costs, etc if you're hurt in an auto accident. Damage claims are a joke, injuries and law suits are the reasons for high rates. I'd say the average injury claim I handle is is between 70 and 100K, many going much much higher... not including costs.

okay,
then loan that money and have the client pay it off over 30 years, with my dads rate for insurance?

same thing?
yes
except people who weren't in an accident aren't ASSRAPED

also

imagine how much safer everyone would drive, if it were like this
lol

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Z also imagine how much safer everyone would drive, if it were like this lol

I personally don't think about my insurance rate every time I get in the car to drive.

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur That wasn't me. The fastest I've driven so far is just over 200 in my new car on the 401 to Waterloo (but it felt much faster because there was traffic). The fastest I've ever gone in the Bimmer was a measly 160. Cause any faster than that, and it gets scary in that car. :/

Uhhh....
No?

quote:

Originally posted by me@t k@tie Uhhh.... No?

Uhhh
Yes

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur I personally don't think about my insurance rate every time I get in the car to drive.

you would if you didn't have insurance, and would be required to pay if you got into an accident

i'm talking about a completely different scenario, than the one you live in right now

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Z i'm talking about a completely different scenario, than the one you live in right now

what is your scenario exactly?

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur what is your scenario exactly?

try reading

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Z you would if you didn't have insurance, and would be required to pay if you got into an accident i'm talking about a completely different scenario, than the one you live in right now

I see where you are coming from but it doesn't really make sense.

People now of course don't want to get into an accident, so it wouldn't change the way they drive. Also I doubt you want to spend the rest of your life paying a $1million dollar accident(if someone is paralyzed etc.). It just isn't practical at all. Insurance is there so that in the event something terrible happens when you are driving, you are covered and don't have to pay back a massive debt. If you are a good driver and never get into accidents, the amount you pay compared to what it actually offers IF something happens, is actually very mininmal.

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie On a side note, I just got a ticket this morning for running a stop. The road seemed unsalted and slippery, but I didn't stop completely. I admit that so I'm guilty. However I hear that if the officer mis-fills the ticket, the ticket could be thrown out. Is this the case for below? The Year listed shows 08. Is that supposed to be the year of the car or year of my licence plate sticker?

Man thats 2 demerit points!

Take it to court.

I took mine to court and the prosecutor offered me to plead guilty to disobeying an official sign. and that was only a $90 fine and no points.

Hey question!

What would happen if I just pretend like I never got the ticket. And if they call me or something I just say I didn't see it on the window and someone must have taken it.

I am sure this happens. That someone tries to be funny and takes a ticket off a car.

What happens in this case??

And if you are gona say suck it up and pay, please keep your comment to yourself. I will pay the ticket, I just want to know what would happen!

quote:

Originally posted by Cro_Addict Man thats 2 demerit points! Take it to court. I took mine to court and the prosecutor offered me to plead guilty to disobeying an official sign. and that was only a $90 fine and no points.

yeah... I don't think I ever got any demerits before... Is that going to increase my insurance? I'm actually a good driver, and very rarely get tickets of any kind.

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie yeah... I don't think I ever got any demerits before... Is that going to increase my insurance? I'm actually a good driver, and very rarely get tickets of any kind.

it could increase your insurance..

But like I said just take it to court
and then they will call you for some kind of hearing with the prosecutor. This is where they offer you a deal. So you can take it or not.

They will probably offer you something like disobaying an official sign which will have no points and no impact on insurance, and you just plead guilty and thats it.

If you plead not guilty to the new charge as well then they give you a court date. But this doesn't concern you since you will just take the deal.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Z try reading

Oh you mean the one in the post that I quoted? Well thought-out scenario there, Einstein. Which one of your sugar daddies is going to be paying for the personal injury claims?

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Z okay, then loan that money and have the client pay it off over 30 years, with my dads rate for insurance? same thing? yes except people who weren't in an accident aren't ASSRAPED

The point of insurance is to spread the risk of the few amongst the many. The very reason for insurance is so that should one suffer a loss by damage to property or legal liability they will not be financially ruined. I've handled claims on injury claims personal lines that ran upwards of $2,000,000, my largest commercial lines claim was just under $25,000,000 US. If not for insurance I can assure you that the at fault driver in the first instance and the corporation that owned the truck in the second would have been bankrupt if not for insurance, moreover, the courts would have ordered an assignment against them that would have resulted in them continuing to pay 25-30% of their gross income to the aggrieved parties for the remainder of their life. Personally, I'd rather pay premiums then take that risk. Additionally, I can assure you that neither the personal driver or the corporate entity in the claims cited above have paid or will ever pay an equivalent amount in premium as their insurers paid in those losses.

BTW, people's driving habits generally don't change for the better if they do not have insurance. In fact, uninsured/underinsured drivers statistically are responsible for a disproportionatly high amount of collisions. This could indicate that people who drive without insurance are a greater risk then the average person or it could indicate that they don't carry insurance because they are a greater risk thus they are unwilling to pay the additional premiums, I cannot say for sure, however, it does fly in the face of your suggestion that people would drive better if they did not have insurance.

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