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-- *Updated* Shooting in Virginia school
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Originally posted by XaNaX Instead of the knee-jerk reaction of "oh lets get rid of all the guns" why not instead use rational thought like "how would things have been different at Virginia Tech if just 2 or 3 students or teachers in each class were carrying guns?" My guess is he may have shot a few people by using the element of surprise but he would have certainly been gunned down by armed law abiding citizens prior to killing 30 people. Lets face it, even you liberals have to admit that gun control is a miserable failure. Criminals can and will always be able to get guns no matter what country of the world they live in.

i don�t know if you�re being sarcastic or serious, very funny

I�ll tell my boss that me and a few of my fellow teachers and students should be armed with guns at my university to prevent a situation like this from ever happening there. I will pick which teachers and students will be bestowed this honour by gauging their knowledge of Rambo movies.

While I agree with the anti-gun-control guys that "banning all guns" is just pissing into the wind, I can't help but be reminded of that Bugs Bunny cartoon where he was battling that little alien dude, and they kept whipping out bigger and bigger guns, alllllll the way into space! This ultimately blew up the world, yet somehow they both lived. We should be so lucky.



Sadly, at this stage of the game, there are too many guns, both legal and illegal, in the hands of nutjobs who would think of using the gun for crime. Handguns, assault rifles, whatever. Of course the criminals aren't going to just hand in their stash of guns if they were banned.

There really isn't an easy answer to the whole gun crime solution other than stiff sentences for those select few who commit a crime with a gun. Sadly, that wouldn't have stopped this dude from killing 33 people since he was armed with guns that you could buy wherever, and be subjected to the 5 day waiting period for his handgun (if that still even exists).

Also, I think that the pro-gun lobby has shown little or no tact in pushing their cause since this latest tragedy:





*** disclaimer: I'm cross-posting these from another website, and did not find them on my own ***

I understand the logic behind what these ads are suggesting, but for fucks sake, has society really gone that far off the deep end that this would be necessary??!?!?!

^^ that's American mentality.

America is very different culturally from the rest of the developed world

America
- a country where sexual abstinence policies receive huge funding, support, and fanfare
- a country where even a mention of gun abstinence policies causes uproar and anger



a 12-year-old American boy is shown by his father how to use a handgun, is allowed to play with it, etc.

But god forbid this boy sees a woman's naked breast!!! holy shit now THAT WOULD BE A DISASTER!!!

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd America - a country where sexual abstinence policies receive huge funding, support, and fanfare - a country where even a mention of gun abstinence policies causes uproar and anger a 12-year-old American boy is shown by his father how to use a handgun, is allowed to play with it, etc. But god forbid this boy sees a woman's naked breast!!! holy shit now THAT WOULD BE A DISASTER!!!

So you're arguing that in the case of stopping sex, sex abstinence is pointless, but in the case of stopping gun crimes, "gun abstinence" is valid? Both are pointless because people are going to have sex and people are going to use guns to murder and the people who break the law using a gun could give a rat's ass on the legality of getting a gun in the first place.

Let's say sex abstinence programs were successful for the general population. Do you think that would stop rapists?

Now let's say gun abstinence programs were successful for the general population. Do you think that would stop gun-carrying murderers?

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Originally posted by pmoisse I understand the logic behind what these ads are suggesting, but for fucks sake, has society really gone that far off the deep end that this would be necessary??!?!?!

Actually, I fully agree with those ads. There is still much ignorance in this country about concealed carry, the predominant myth is that concealed carry would cause cities to turn into the wild west where people are constantly shooting at each other. In fact, this has been proven repeatedly to be completely untrue and is basically propaganda created by liberals to justify banning concealed carry.

Why do I agree with the use of those ads? Imagine that you are in that classroom at Virginia Tech, and you have a clear shot at that fuking wackjob as he is trying to barricade a door. But your sidearm is locked in the trunk of your car because a campus regulation prevents a law abiding citizen with a concealed carry permit who has attended all required gun training from carrying his sidearm with him (or her). I don't know about you but I'd be pretty fucking pissed if I was in that situation.

Lets face it people, the police cannot protect you. They especially cannot protect you in random wackjob shooting situations like this one. If you dial 911 how long does it take the cops to get to your house? The best protection against wackjobs and criminals is armed law abiding citizens. That wackjob in Virginia would have been long dead before he managed to kill 30 people.

quote:

Originally posted by XaNaX Actually, I fully agree with those ads. There is still much ignorance in this country about concealed carry, the predominant myth is that concealed carry would cause cities to turn into the wild west where people are constantly shooting at each other. In fact, this has been proven repeatedly to be completely untrue and is basically propaganda created by liberals to justify banning concealed carry. Why do I agree with the use of those ads? Imagine that you are in that classroom at Virginia Tech, and you have a clear shot at that fuking wackjob as he is trying to barricade a door. But your sidearm is locked in the trunk of your car because a campus regulation prevents a law abiding citizen with a concealed carry permit who has attended all required gun training from carrying his sidearm with him (or her). I don't know about you but I'd be pretty fucking pissed if I was in that situation. Lets face it people, the police cannot protect you. They especially cannot protect you in random wackjob shooting situations like this one. If you dial 911 how long does it take the cops to get to your house? The best protection against wackjobs and criminals is armed law abiding citizens. That wackjob in Virginia would have been long dead before he managed to kill 30 people.

But that was my whole point...has shit gotten so far out of hand that everyone needs to pack heat? Again, I understand the logic, but I feel sad for those who have to live by it.

I know what you're saying about the paranoia of having some bigass shootout at the mall, where everyone tries to be a hero, and there's some huge shootout. I understand that that situation is (hopefully) in the extreme. But, if there was concealed carry at this school, and several people tried to be the hero, in the fog of battle how would anyone know who the student gunman was and who the student hero's were? Wouldn't that situation have the potential for more innocent lives to be taken, even if they were only trying to help?

I'm honestly not on either side of this argument, since I don't think either side holds much water.

So you give people sidearms what happens when a random fight breaks out or someone loses their temper?

If you ask me they should give you guys low power rifles for hunting and shotguns. You don't need a f*cking Streyr or an M4 Carbine to protect your home in random surburbia.

Before anyone asks no I'm not a Liberal. But there is a time and a place for guns.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono So you're arguing that in the case of stopping sex, sex abstinence is pointless, but in the case of stopping gun crimes, "gun abstinence" is valid? Both are pointless because people are going to have sex and people are going to use guns to murder and the people who break the law using a gun could give a rat's ass on the legality of getting a gun in the first place. Let's say sex abstinence programs were successful for the general population. Do you think that would stop rapists? Now let's say gun abstinence programs were successful for the general population. Do you think that would stop gun-carrying murderers?

dude youve missed my point completely. I was merely laughing at how twisted American culture is.

There is a twisted reversal in America of what, to the rest of the developed world, is normal and okay, and what is not. Of what there should be an uproar about, and what there shouldn't be.

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX GunControl is BullShit.... enjoy especially you O'Call

America is a angry place because of too much sugar in their diets, fairly liberal firearm ownership laws, a number of cultural quirks which has everyone hating each other to some extent and then add in a government keeping them all in fear of terrorists and anything else they can thing up to stay in power.
It's a front row seat at the freakshow of humanity, add to that the people who do own guns are rarely shown how to use the damn things responsibly or for safety purposes so they don't shoot themselves. I really do think there would be a noticeable benefit for exacting background checks and training like owning a motorvehicle, which would involve a few days learning not to be an idiot with it.
Buying it, walking out same day or a few days later, really is inviting accidental disaster, there's really not much you can do with things like someone going on a shooting rampage. However, it's such a rare event you should probably be better off watching what you eat and watching when you cross the road and watching where you're driving, rather than watching out for lunatics on a shooting rampage.

Because those, will kill you.
Cars and heart disease statistically wipe out tons of people before their time in a civilian environment. Sure, it's not as newsworthy as having your body parts perforated by hot lead, but it's ultimately just as fatal.

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Originally posted by pmoisse in the fog of battle how would anyone know who the student gunman was and who the student hero's were?

I understand your point, but in the case where we are sitting in a class and someone walks in with a gun and starts shooting I think it would be very clear who the gunman is and who the armed students are. But either way I'll take my chances that maybe another student will accidentally shoot me in the crossfire over being unarmed and being lined up and executed by some nut with no chance for survival.

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Originally posted by Lilith America is a angry place because of too much sugar in their diets, fairly liberal firearm ownership laws, a number of cultural quirks which has everyone hating each other to some extent and then add in a government keeping them all in fear of terrorists and anything else they can thing up to stay in power. It's a front row seat at the freakshow of humanity,

I used to think that too, but it's not really true.

I grew up in America, and recently visited Germany. Believe me, the number of freaks I saw in Germany was much higher than in America.

Yeah the Germans are kind of odd... almost worthy of a thread on which country has the most weirdo's but I'm tired and it's late

In other somewhat more relevant news-

quote:

Steve Flaherty, superintendent of Virginia state police, identified the gunman who killed 32 people at Virginia Tech University on Monday as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a resident alien in the United States.

Guess that answers that, wasn't a US citizen that did it. Least he didn't shoot our Mr 'Swearing Bear' Opus who I think lives down that way and condolences to anyone who had someone near and dear to them killed or hurt.

I cannot believe ppl that listen to trance can be so narrow minded. Sure the "good guys" wouldn't have guns and the criminals would, but not afer 15 years or so. There would be a minute amount of guns not recovered.

Are the states any safer than Canada? Than England? Arguing that guns breed safety is moronic, they breed the illusion of safety.

You are big man, with biiig penis, you're gun makes you feel sooo powerful!

quote:

Originally posted by Dopey Arguing that guns breed safety is moronic, they breed the illusion of safety. You are big man, with biiig penis, you're gun makes you feel sooo powerful!

I never thought this day would come, but looks like we're in agreement for once

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX gun laws only hurt the innocent gun owners..... not the criminals.....

gun laws hurt innocent gun owners because of criminals. If you're a gun owner and you have not issues with society, how can gun laws hurt you?

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Originally posted by Dopey I cannot believe ppl that listen to trance can be so narrow minded. Sure the "good guys" wouldn't have guns and the criminals would, but not afer 15 years or so. There would be a minute amount of guns not recovered. Are the states any safer than Canada? Than England? Arguing that guns breed safety is moronic, they breed the illusion of safety. You are big man, with biiig penis, you're gun makes you feel sooo powerful!

100% correct. Guns don't make you strong. I'll fight any mother****** hand to hand if they have a problem with me or my family. But unfortunately guns have become the easy answer to many problems, and people resort to them continuously.

I just noticed that a) this guy's not white b) he is not American citizen.

I expect a lot of backlash as a result of this, i.e. racism and further increased campaign against people with no citizenship in USA.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I just noticed that a) this guy's not white b) he is not American citizen. I expect a lot of backlash as a result of this, i.e. racism and further increased campaign against people with no citizenship in USA.

a) He was South Korean, b)He's been here for 14 years.

Asian's aren't usually your prototypical miscreants (outside of the Jonger). I don't expect the same backlash you do.

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Originally posted by Shakka b)He's been here for 14 years.

People who are in the country for 14 yrs should be citizens by that point. You become a citizen after 5 yrs. It's not clear why the guy was still "a permanent resident".

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Originally posted by Q5echo that just goes to show mass murderers will go to any legnths necessary if they know Democrats are willing to forsake it all.

Mass murderers are there because of YOUR war and how YOU put us there supposedly for search of WMDs and al Qaeda connections, remember? There's nothing more we can do to prevent this civil war except get more people killed. The numbers are already climbing higher than ever:

http://www.miamiherald.com/884/story/76515.html

This can't be stopped by any surge. You wondering why no one wants your War Czar position? Like this guy, Marine Corps Gen. John Sheehan, who was one of many that turned down the position:

quote:

What I found in discussions with current and former members of this administration is that there is no agreed-upon strategic view of the Iraq problem or the region. . . . There has to be linkage between short-term operations and strategic objectives that represent long-term U.S. and regional interests, such as assured access to energy resources and support for stable, Western-oriented countries. These interests will require a serious dialogue and partnership with countries that live in an increasingly dangerous neighborhood. We cannot "shorthand" this issue with concepts such as the "democratization of the region" or the constant refrain by a small but powerful group that we are going to "win," even as "victory" is not defined or is frequently redefined. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...id=opinionsbox1

It was never a realistic goal under this idiot president with his stovepiping intelligence and lack of post-war plan to force democracy through invasion and destruction in Iraq. Sorry to break it to you, but one day you're going to have to live with that reality. In the meantime, the civil strife continues to kill 2-3x more people in Iraq versus what has occurred with this tragedy in Virginia on a daily basis.

33 Dead at VT Campus

As many of you can attest; drugs such as marijuana, cocaine, mdma, lsd to name a few are illegal and are banned yet you people can score some get high whenever you can and scream from the rooftops when the "man" has got you down whenever you people want to legalize it.

But when it comes to banning guns there are still people who manage (just like my drug analogy) to get a hold of a gun and there are people that cry from the rooftops to ban guns.

Truth be told there are some that shouldn't have a weapon in their hands but there are some that should who could have protected the 32 victims.

Those that claim there should be control do not see that the ones at the podium during the sound bites usually have armed guards or are armed themselves while us little people suffer at the hands of the criminals.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Mass murderers are there because of YOUR war and how YOU put us there supposedly for search of WMDs and al Qaeda connections, remember? There's nothing more we can do to prevent this civil war except get more people killed. The numbers are already climbing higher than ever:

r u serious?

Jesus Christ--is it possible to have any sort of meaningful discussion around here without devolving into a pissing war over George Bush?

quote:

Originally posted by Dopey r u serious?

Have I ever joked in regards to how I feel about the Iraq War?

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