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-- Intifada 2002
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quote:

Originally posted by drewfactor The problem with the islamic world is the fact that all of their countries are dominated by dictatorships, mostly rooted in fundamentalist islam.

For your information, The dictatorship did not arise from the policies of Islam, but from the regions history...
I'm not gonna sit here and explain what you should of learned/understood in school...

quote:

Originally posted by drewfactor Suppression of women, lack of education, freedom of press, etc...)that predominate the middle east

Where's that happening? (excluding Afgh. and S.A.)

It also took place throught American history!
[/QUOTE]

quote:

Originally posted by drewfactor It's hard to believe that the islamic world was once the pinnacle of development in science, art, and technology while Europe was far behind..but now look...

That's because of the current dictatorships, Not Islam.

You need to stop refering to it as the 'Islamic World' ...
You can't associate religion with politics...

quote:

Originally posted by drewfactor I support Israel because it promotes democracy and freedom. One thing you never hear mentioned is how Israel has palestinians in their government, they are a free democratic state...

Ofcourse they are, to their own people.
What about the Palestinian people? Or do they not count?

quote:

Originally posted by drewfactor to see that destroyed by a bunch of lunatic arabs is just sad.

You're sad...
how can you say that?

One question to the fellow Israeli TA's.

If i were to come and visit Israel, how would you greet me, or treat me. Not as a fellow TA, but as a Syrian.

@tranex02: At least the surrounding countries like Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, etc. have not good relationships to say it friendly with Israel. They absolutely do not like Israel.

@the other one who said the things about the holy places. First of all the Israel nation was founded because of their claim of th epast that they've lived there back 1000 years.
And the orthodox right wing religios fanatics jews are no better than Hamas, etc.

I have seen a statistic that at the time of the Belfour-Declaration (191?) there were 9% jews amongst the population there. at the time Israel was foounded like 33%, now there are living more jews than arab i think.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 ok jews quit it. get lost israelis with your filthy sionist propaganda

Thats beeing mature rebel9 ..

I fully respect the israelis in their war against terror.. I think it borders on anti-semitism condemning Israel while backing up the U.S., like the european governments do..

another interesting thing i noticed while watching the news today. The israeli soldiers in Jenin refused the reporters to enter and film the destruction of the camp. Why? Well simply because they want to hide the fact that those dirty israeli soldiers have destroyed every single house in the camp and killed hundreds of civilians.
In Israel's eyes every palestinian, woman, children, old, no matter the age is a terrorist.
And then you come here talking about peace.
let me show you this map http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0204/14/storkarta.jpg
it's from a swedish newspaper.
the red dots are israeli settlements. just look how they have spread their settlers in the middle of the occupied palestinian land.

Sionists you can never ever get peace through violence. If you believe violence can be killed by more violence then you should never have been born.

@ravesquad: I agree with you that this "jew" comment by rebel was not very good, way too much generalization.

on the other hand: please quit this Antisemtism-hoax! The US-war o terror is not the same like the Israeli one. The US have not occupied a country territories for ages...they just reacted to a terror-attack, without really provoking it (ok they provoked it in some way as well but not that obviously...).

P.s.: Im no supporter on the war on terror by the USA as well.

That map of rebel shows you that Israle is not an angel neither! Its not a terror act but those settlers, who are guarded by the israeli army (!) btw, provoke insults and anger on the other side, and they take land which is in FACT not theirs! There are plenty of UNO-resolution, but noone semms to care.

Btw: What the Hell was Colin Powell doing in Israel and Palestine? It was a complete diplomatical disaster! Arafat is angry as hell, Israel can do what it will. I remember @one time Georgie Bush yelling in the TV that Israel has to leave the occupied cities NOW, lol, the one and only power in the world these days, seem sto have much authority! What is th eplan now? Leave all that shit alone, let the Israelis and palis make this thing out or what? A Genocid is coming if the UNO or the US (the european cant somehow. the GB can not make self decisons, they only follow US, germany simply cant put a feet in Israel because of their history and the rest is too weak!) doesnt make something.

the terror attacks will continue and Sharon will massacre more and more people.

The USA are really in a shithole at the moment. They have somehow stand by Israel but they also need to calm down the Arabs (and the Europeans as well!!), else no one will support their continuing war on terrorism.

quote:

Originally posted by cweb @ravesquad: I agree with you that this "jew" comment by rebel was not very good, way too much generalization. [quote] Indeed.. Rebel looks to be blinded by his Nazi indoctornation. [quote]on the other hand: please quit this Antisemtism-hoax! The US-war o terror is not the same like the Israeli one. The US have not occupied a country territories for ages...they just reacted to a terror-attack, without really provoking it (ok they provoked it in some way as well but not that obviously...).

First off what anti-semitisim hoax?
Second, the US war on terror is the same as the Israeli one.
Why do terrorist strike? To achieve political gains.
How do you solve this? Say no to Terror, Yes to politics.

Therefore if u want to talk politics by using terror, then by all means, go ahead and do it... but if u do, do not then go cry to the world when there is reaction against it.

I think most the Arabs here would agree with this.. I think we all believe the Palestinians have a right to exist in their own country..
The problem is the palestinians combine politics (the right of country) with terrorism (apparently what they think is the only way to achive this).

The problem is we all agree with the politics, we all don't agree on the terror. Therefore the Palestinians should seperate politics from terror. A good way to do this is to stop terror, but a better way is to elect a repersentive as a politician who is not a terrorist.

As once again, I don't think there is doubt in anyones mind that Arafat is indeed a terrorist.. even all the Arabs realize this as much as they would not like to (right?).

Now in all fairness Ariel Sharon is no saint, but we have to remember Israel elected many leaders to deal with the same Palestinian with no sucess (Rabin, Peres, Netenyahu, Barak, Sharon). Therefore the only real hope in his conflict, is the seperation of politics and terrorism (getting rid of Arafat).

Now as to why the wars are similar, America is fighting the war againt terrorism, Israel is fighting a war on terrorism (not politics!).

quote:

P.s.: Im no supporter on the war on terror by the USA as well.

Being a pacifist is one thing very unrealistic... I support America's war on terror because I do not support terror. By doing nothing, you undermine your detterence and actually encourage such terror to occur.

quote:

That map of rebel shows you that Israle is not an angel neither!

The beloved Palestinian argument. "Everything we do is ok, because Israel is not good" But it just does not work that way. Terrorism is NEVER justifed!

Furthermore, settlers are a political issue.. they do not routinelykill anyone in cold blood and pose no security threat.

quote:

Its not a terror act but those settlers, who are guarded by the israeli army (!) btw, provoke insults and anger on the other side, and they take land which is in FACT not theirs! There are plenty of UNO-resolution, but noone semms to care.

First of all, the land is not the Palestinian's either. Israel won it in a war, the land is indeed disputed between both sides and therefore is not recongized to either until a binding agreement is reached. Secondly, soldiers provoking, is a far cry from killing someone.. I see a big moral difference here eh? If I call you names will you kill me just because of it?

Now, third the UN resolutions say nothing about who's land is what.
And the final point, in another post you said:

quote:

And the orthodox right wing religios fanatics jews are no better than Hamas, etc.

First of all the Orthodox Jews do not kill palestinians in cold blood.. indeed they don't even "insult" them since they do not serve in the Israeli army. On the other hand, there are those who are very religious (though not Orthodox), that have in a few occurance (since Israel cracks down on internal terrorist it is not a routine) have went on a killing spree where they shot Palestinias in cold blood.

This is one thing, blowing yourself to do this is another thing. There is a moral difference here.. it is small, but can you see it? Murdering people, by wanting to stay alive, as opposed to murdering people while killing yourself.

Yoepus
If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy all her friends?

damn i made another long-ass post!! what is it with me??

quote:

Originally posted by cweb Btw: What the Hell was Colin Powell doing in Israel and Palestine?

He was trying to broker a ceasefire. Sharon said, "here is a timetable of our withdrawl plans". The Arafat said "go fuck yourselves".

So Powell went up north, and say the Syria-Iran-Iraq-Palestine alliance in action and tried to put a stop to it.
Then he thought to himself "Fuck Arafat", and heard about a peace-process reinitiating in June, and said "Well, the Israelis can handle it till then.. I'm leaving this shithole".

quote:

the terror attacks will continue and Sharon will massacre more and more people.

You know what? I think I would disagree, if Sharon were indeed to massacre the family, and friends of a suicide bomber I think they might think twice before doing it again. And if the suicide bomber had no friends or family, then he'd go in and massacre their villiage or neighbors.. I am fairly sure we would see a quick end to all the terror. But you know what, Sharon is not masacring people left in right, and if you really think so, and really believe it, it just might come true.. so be careful what you wish for.

The 'cycle of violence'=
Terrorist Attack (suicide bomber, which massacres innocents)
Israeli Retaliation (Against the terrorist, which might incur 'collatoral damage').

Can you see the moral difference?

quote:

The USA are really in a shithole at the moment.

The USA is perfect right now, the rest of he world has gone to shit it seems to me.

Yoepus
If our food and drink don't meet your standards, please lower your standards

so you mean that as long as the settlers are peaceful they should be allowed to live there?
FROM WHICH PLANET ARE YOU?!
For god sake they have stolen land. Those landstealersa and thieves can not be allowed. Friendly or nonfriendly. A thief is a thief. Stealing land can not be accepted.

Umm.. for 2000-4000 years ago Iran had all of Asia in its hand.. because of historical value we want it back, all of asia belongs to us

Kurosh the great gave us the land.. And we had Israel even before the Jews because while Moses was going to Israel, Kurosh wrote a law that said that all persian people must help the jews to come to peace and get their land.

LOL!! Israel is a very funny country... God gave us this land, what kind of shit is that?

And please.. Ariel Sharon can literally go FUCK HIMSELF and so can Yasser Arafat... and for that moron that said that the orthodox jews dont insult

Umm.. what the fuck are you talking about?

How about that orthodox jew leader, that came to the government said: the arabic people in israel is like cancer cells that needs to be removed...

please.. Israel, you got just as much blood and dirt on your hands as the palestinians.. you drive your terrorism in another way, palestinians drive their terrorism in obvious ways, Israel do it sneaky ways.

so if you ever want peace, get those fuck faces sharon and arafat out of there, forget everything that was and start over again.. please.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 For god sake they have stolen land. Those landstealersa and thieves can not be allowed. Friendly or nonfriendly. A thief is a thief. Stealing land can not be accepted.

man did you even read what yoepus was writting?

quote:

Originally posted by yoepus First of all, the land is not the Palestinian's either. Israel won it in a war, the land is indeed disputed between both sides and therefore is not recongized to either until a binding agreement is reached.

quote:

Originally posted by yoepus Now, third the UN resolutions says nothing about who's land is who's.

furthermore to prove you more wrong, here's a quote from the UN resalution 242, which the palestinians seem to like so much for some strage reason.

quote:

UN resolustion 242 "[The resolution] allows Israel to administer the territories won in the 1967 "six day war" until 'a just and lasting peace ine the Middle East' is achieved

also neither the Decloration of Principles of september 13, 1993 (oslo accords) nor the Internim Agreement contains any provisions prohibiting or restricting the establishment or expansion of Jewish communities in the West Bank or Gaza Strip

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 so you mean that as long as the settlers are peaceful they should be allowed to live there? FROM WHICH PLANET ARE YOU?!

YES! why not? there are palestinians living in israel, no one has asked them to move. if a plan such as the one giving at camp david called for giving 97% of the land to a palestinian country why cant they have jewish settlements there. is there anything in this world that is not allowing you to move to norway and settle down and build a house? No, didnt think so, you just have to get the right political assurances (visas, citizenships). btw which planet do you hail from?

quote:

Originally posted by Proximus Umm.. for 2000-4000 years ago Iran had all of Asia in its hand.. because of historical value we want it back, all of asia belongs to us

Although many Jews claim all the land of Israel, and indeed it has may religious implications, the Jews got the land for one simple reason... The World gave it to them! By the world, I mean the UN who was left to decide the fate of the land, after the British abandoned it (failing to keep up promises to both Arabs and Jews). All but the religious realize they have Israel because the British got it from the Turks, who got it from... and gave it to the Jews for self-determination.

Now the territories of the west bank and gaza were won in 1967, in a pre-emptive stirke... and Israel's occupation of these lands is legitimate (read the UN quote from Izzy above).

quote:

and for that moron that said that the orthodox jews dont insult

Firstly, I'm not a moron, you just can't read.
I did not say they do not insult, I said they do not go blow themsleves up to kill innocent palestinians, and that is the moral difference that does not make them like Hamas.

quote:

so if you ever want peace, get those fuck faces sharon and arafat out of there, forget everything that was and start over again.. please.

I agree with you, Arafat has to be removed. I hope Sharon will do it, as you guys already hate him so much.. if he doesn't another Israeli leader will have to, and then he will be branded the same persona from the Arab world as Sharon.

Starting over again is a good idea.. the means a 50-50 compromise is the starting point, not 97-3.

Yoepus
My goal is simple: the complete understanding of the Universe

Here is the deal..

As long as Palestinians continue on doing suicide bombings, they will NEVER EVER EVER get any land back.

Why ? Because it would set a precedent! Then any terrorist organization would perform 1000 terrorist acts, and governments would just give them what they want.

What if all of a sudden Native Indians started performing terrorist acts in US and demand all of America back? Do you think they would get anything? Didn't think so!

What choice does Sharon have??? He has two choices - Give Palestinians what they want(that is give terrorists what they want), or destroy terrorists.

Sharon could also go on a compromise, give Palestinians something back. But do you REALLY think Palestines will be satisfied with that?? Do you REALLY think so? 10 years down the road the same story will be repeated. Palestinians will want back MORE and MORE.


The moral of the story is: If Palestines want something, they have to learn to do negotiations! No suicide bombs, no threats. Just negotiations.

Israel doesn't want to kill all palestines ! If they did they would've done so LONG LONG time ago. Now I can't say the same about Palestinians. I lived in Israel for 4 years(I live in Canada). I wasn't born in Israel though, so I can pretty much speak objectively. Well, I never heard anybody in Israel say "All palestines must die". However it looks as if such attituted exist all over the place in Palestine.

seems like the jews have forgotten their history very quickly. yesterday they were killed and harassed by the nazis and now they kill and harass palestinians in the same way.
where is the moral and the understanding?
i am very dissapointed on the israelis.
and this crisis will definetly never end.
there is too much to loose on both sides.

quote:

Originally posted by Proximus Umm.. for 2000-4000 years ago Iran had all of Asia in its hand.. because of historical value we want it back, all of asia belongs to us Kurosh the great gave us the land.. And we had Israel even before the Jews because while Moses was going to Israel, Kurosh wrote a law that said that all persian people must help the jews to come to peace and get their land. LOL!! Israel is a very funny country... God gave us this land, what kind of shit is that? And please.. Ariel Sharon can literally go FUCK HIMSELF and so can Yasser Arafat... and for that moron that said that the orthodox jews dont insult Umm.. what the fuck are you talking about? How about that orthodox jew leader, that came to the government said: the arabic people in israel is like cancer cells that needs to be removed... please.. Israel, you got just as much blood and dirt on your hands as the palestinians.. you drive your terrorism in another way, palestinians drive their terrorism in obvious ways, Israel do it sneaky ways. so if you ever want peace, get those fuck faces sharon and arafat out of there, forget everything that was and start over again.. please.

Hey, while you're at it, give Poland some of it's land back, that was taken away as recently as WW2

Oh, God gave us this land, therefore it's ours? Politics and religion should NEVER come together...just look at whats happening. I don't get it...since when does a religion get its own country? I'm catholic...give me a country...how about Bethlehem and surrounding lands...since thats where my Lord was born. Jeez...this Israel/Palestine thing is just fucked...I say US should just nuke it, and problem solved...for a few days...hehe. j/k about that nuke thing, but I'm sick and tired of seeing this happening. Why the fuck can't they reach some stupid agreement, just to stop all these massacre's? (show's how much both leaders really care about their people)

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 seems like the jews have forgotten their history very quickly. yesterday they were killed and harassed by the nazis and now they kill and harass palestinians in the same way. where is the moral and the understanding? i am very dissapointed on the israelis. and this crisis will definetly never end. there is too much to loose on both sides.

you know what F*CK YOU
guy on here will know i tend to stay as calm as possible and i've written a lot on this subject but what you just said shows me your complete idiocy on this topic!
"kill and harras in the same way"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
show me where and when the israelis have rounded up palestinians and crowded them into stuffed box cars on trains to be sent to a camp where they are gassed to death then cremated? F*CK YOU!
i can not see how you can say its the INTENTION AND ACTION of the jews to kill palestinians in the same way

guys am i not justified for being this pissed off?

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy you know what F*CK YOU guy on here will know i tend to stay as calm as possible and i've written a lot on this subject but what you just said shows me your complete idiocy on this topic! "kill and harras in the same way"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! show me where and when the israelis have rounded up palestinians and crowded them into stuffed box cars on trains to be sent to a camp where they are gassed to death then cremated? F*CK YOU! i can not see how you can say its the INTENTION AND ACTION of the jews to kill palestinians in the same way guys am i not justified for being this pissed off?

well mr Israel. I never cursed you and when you curse me it shows how stupid and lowlife you are. You can't even discuss an issue without cursing? Very childish. Shame of you judas!
I've seen it in the news very often. Israeli soldiers which deny palestinian workers to go to work. That's true harassment.
One reporter filmed when an israeli soldier let 2 jews pass through but refused to let through a pregnant woman which needed to go to the hospital immidiatly.
You don't call that fascism? Well it's the true form of fascism.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 ok jews quit it. haven't you realized it yet?! occupying a land costs both blood and life. Remember when Sovjet occupied Afghanistan. They lost thousands of soliders and 10 years later were forced to leave the country. If the Israelis think they can occupy land and build settlements without any reaction from the palestinian side then they got shit in their brains. just the fact that the Israelis voted for an international warcrime as a prime minister (Sharon) which is by Amnesty International listed as guilty for the death of more than 8000 civilians in Sabra and Shatila shows how much peace the israelis wants (zero). get lost israelis with your filthy sionist propaganda

You're e-tarded mang, to occupy implies that there's a country doing the occupiation. Soviets occupied Afghanistan, Germans occupied most of Europe. Jews as a peoples (no country!!!!) settled in a country occupied by the British who won it from the Turks who inherited it from the Ottomans (kinda same thing but...)who took it over from the Saracens (Persians I guess you used to call 'em) who just plain old stole it from the bedouin that ran the country over after the fall of the Roman Empire which persecuted the Jews out of the land of Canaan who no longer exist. The last occupying force (British) promised part of that land to the small Jewish community living there at the time in the Balfour Declaration, don't remember what year, but it happened after the pogroms in the Russian Pale and the massacres in Poland in the beggining of 20th century, then promised the same land to the folks already living there in order to keep friendly with the Arabs in the coming WWII and get their oil. Then refused to mediate between them and turned the matter over to the UN who decided in favor of separation. But the Palestinians fired up by the Mufti Al Husseini decided that it was either all or nothing and joined an Arab Alliance of 7+ countries to go against about oh rough estimate of 3 million Jewish settlers with no access to outside world. But you know what I'm getting tired of edumacating you fools, know your history, then talk shit. That's like saying that all of western Europe should be in the hands of the Celts/Gauls, and let's kick all the descendants of the Romans and Goths and Germanic tribes outta there. And while we at it let's all return back to the borders of the indegineous people of each particular place. So all Americans let's please start packing and head back to the countries of origin. ah ignorance the true cause of suffering.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 I've seen it in the news very often. Israeli soldiers which deny palestinian workers to go to work. That's true harassment. One reporter filmed when an israeli soldier let 2 jews pass through but refused to let through a pregnant woman which needed to go to the hospital immidiatly. You don't call that fascism? Well it's the true form of fascism.

Well, good ole Darwin described this as Survival of the Fittest, you're not the most educated person I see. So I'll break it down to you like this:
1) Nazi attack on Jews in WWII was unprovoked (much like their attack on Poland, Spain and Russia), this is in responce to your earlier blabbering, after all it's not like the Nation of Jews commited open and deliberate acts of destruction and mayhem against the Nation of Nazis
2)If you get a mild electric shock from an electrical outlet and then stick your fingers in there again, you're naturally selected to die and chosen by nature to be unfit for survival. In the same way an IDF soldier that lets a pregnant woman through a checkpoint to find out that later on she bombs a cafe in Tel Aviv (for example), would be an unfit specimen of human being if he does it again. It's called self-preservation.

If you need this simplified and explained further, pm me I'd be glad to school you some more

still it doesnt give the sionists the right to call all palestinians "terrorists".
fools

I wrote a long post but its lost after the PC crashed...oh dear.

just one thing: rebel9, dont blame all of Sharon actions on the whole Israel folk. Like every other country ruled by a criminal, the folk is lied to and many guys in Israel have no clue what happen in Jenin or Ramlallah or wherever.

Blame Sharon, he deserves it 100%

i remember reading in a newspaper a few weeks ago that an Israeli TV-channel went with some Israeli soldiers while they were invading a palestinian camp. They israeli newschannel filmed when the israeli soldiers shot a woman while her children were witnessign it. Since the israeli soldiers didn't allow anyone to leave the camp the women died because of loss of blood. She could have survived if they would have let her to the hospital.
When the newchannel showed that in the israeli TV many israelis were shocked. They had no idea at all what was happening when Israeli soldiers were so called "searching for terrorists".
The goverment called the newschannel and told them to never show that kind of news again because it would hurt their propaganda.

thats what i meant

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