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-- Teacher arrested in Sudan for naming teddy Mohammed
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Originally posted by UmmiE Where as people like us(me,fahad) get counted with them which is what i hate.......I dont agree with them.....

Hey bro, I don't think anyone counts us with the extremists, but when we try to shed some light on the issue people's heads are so far up their asses that they refuse to respect any other perspective other than their own "extreme" western liberal views. I guess if everyone pursued a "balanced" approach where we express our liberal views but at the same time respect some of the backward behaviours in other societies (after we take the time to understand the complete context beyond the CNN article) we'd all be considered bland and boring.

Personally, I enjoy the narrow views some people have as it brings up healthy (if insulting at times) discussion!

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Originally posted by echosystm lol fvck that man. people need to know that they are stupid, otherwise they will breed and create more stupidity. before you know it, you would be up to your knees in stupid babies. i will not tolerate stupid babies.

lol.

as if telling people that they are stupid is going to stop them from breeding.

Oh yeah.

Your rights/freedom of speech/liberty/whatever stops at the edge of other peoples.

Generally, it's pretty rude when you insult other people, no matter how funny it might be seem to you

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Originally posted by EvilTree Oh yeah. Your rights/freedom of speech/liberty/whatever stops at the edge of other peoples. Generally, it's pretty rude when you insult other people, no matter how funny it might be seem to you

Exactly ..................tons of times i have stopped myself from posting stuff i thought was really funny but at the last moment before hitting Post button i changed my mind because being funny is one thing but making fun of someones belief is just wrong.....Even if i did i always go back and take it off.

having said that, the Sudanese response to this incident is rather comical, and extremists Islam nutjobs jihad thingy is rather funny too.

all morons

Heres a question, why can't you call anything Mohammed but you're allowed to take that name yourself?

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Originally posted by Trance Nutter Heres a question, why can't you call anything Mohammed but you're allowed to take that name yourself?

everything except coconuts. I've read somewhere that coconuts have received the green light on the name.

but why can a person have the name Mohammed, but a teddy bear can't?

Especially when the bear may have been named after a common name in Islamic countries.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance Nutter but why can a person have the name Mohammed, but a teddy bear can't? Especially when the bear may have been named after a common name in Islamic countries.

probably same reason why muslims name their kids after famous names in the quran, just like christians name their kids after famous names in the bible.

they want their kids to be like whoever they are naming after

animals aren't worthy as humans to be named after muhammad

^^^bingo

quote:

Originally posted by Trance Nutter but why can a person have the name Mohammed, but a teddy bear can't? Especially when the bear may have been named after a common name in Islamic countries.

Dude, don't ask me!!! I don't know anything about the Sudanese regime (never studied it ) and I do know that all kinds of atrocities and genocides have occurred in the central African region, some in the name if Islam if I'm not mistaken, so I'm clueless as to the religious connection for this case, aside from what has already been pointed out above. If it's a foreign teacher he'll most likely get out of there pretty quick, because this offense is hardly a serious offense; way too many murders going on for there to be such a big focus on this.

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Originally posted by fayraree Hey bro, I don't think anyone counts us with the extremists, but when we try to shed some light on the issue people's heads are so far up their asses that they refuse to respect any other perspective other than their own "extreme" western liberal views. I guess if everyone pursued a "balanced" approach where we express our liberal views but at the same time respect some of the backward behaviours in other societies (after we take the time to understand the complete context beyond the CNN article) we'd all be considered bland and boring. Personally, I enjoy the narrow views some people have as it brings up healthy (if insulting at times) discussion!

well to be honest mate, it doesn't help the situation when you go out of your way to defend archaic practices in saudi arabia (no matter how articulately you might explain yourself).

fact is, the world would be a much better place if every country was a liberal democracy. and one day, that will be the case. the temptation of free press, free elections, free economy, free religion, freedom of expression, female emancipation etc etc etc will be too much for even the fanatical heartland to resist. it'll just take time. lots of it. until then, i and other humanists will lazily be fighting for it on tranceaddict.com/forums.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN fact is, the world would be a much better place if every country was a liberal democracy. and one day, that will be the case. the temptation of free press, free elections, free economy, free religion, freedom of expression, female emancipation etc etc etc will be too much for even the fanatical heartland to resist. it'll just take time. lots of it. until then, i and other humanists will lazily be fighting for it on tranceaddict.com/forums.

Is humanists the new word for atheists?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN fact is, the world would be a much better place if every country was a liberal democracy. and one day, that will be the case. the temptation of free press, free elections, free economy, free religion, freedom of expression, female emancipation etc etc etc will be too much for even the fanatical heartland to resist. it'll just take time. lots of it. until then, i and other humanists will lazily be fighting for it on tranceaddict.com/forums.

lol. United Federation of Planets is not going to happen anytime soon. doubt it'll ever happen based upon trends in human history.

democracy requires people to be educated in its use. too many people don't know how to use democracy, nor do they understand it

and considering the fact that many people do not give a rat's ass about the govt as long as they have a roof over their head and food in their belly, democracy for many is a novelty concept only

spreading concepts like democracy, human rights, liberty, etc. requires humanity to give a rat's ass about each other. the fact is, we don't.
not in the scale required to promote democracy and all that other stuff worldwide

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Originally posted by fayraree Is humanists the new word for atheists?

it's all about the marketing these days

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Originally posted by fayraree Is humanists the new word for atheists?

haha, don't be facetious.

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Originally posted by EvilTree lol. United Federation of Planets is not going to happen anytime soon. doubt it'll ever happen based upon trends in human history. democracy requires people to be educated in its use. too many people don't know how to use democracy, nor do they understand it and considering the fact that many people do not give a rat's ass about the govt as long as they have a roof over their head and food in their belly, democracy for many is a novelty concept only spreading concepts like democracy, human rights, liberty, etc. requires humanity to give a rat's ass about each other. the fact is, we don't. not in the scale required to promote democracy and all that other stuff worldwide

sorry, but the ever-increasing affluence and insidious popular culture of the west will one day dominate the world. you can already see it now; mid east nations having to ban satellite tv etc. videos of osama (or was it al sadr, i forget) wearing reebok runners etc.

INFORMATION is the key. the chinese know it, that's why they're attempting to control an entire society's access to it.

people will come to realise that the easiet way to guarantee "roofs over heads and food in bellies" is through free trade markets. and to have proper free trade, you need free government.

it is inevitable. "the stronger you tighten your grib, the more star systems will slip through your fingers" -princess leia. so true. the oligarchs and dictators in this world cannot possibly remain ad nauseum, there will be too much information, popular culture, economic influence for it to be so. the dictatorship has a limited lifespan.

too many citizens around the world appreciate the beauty of our (very) flawed democracies. they will want their gaming systems, music, books, tv shows, elections, free newspapers etc etc etc.

it is only a matter of time. social evolition. it will happen.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN well to be honest mate, it doesn't help the situation when you go out of your way to defend archaic practices in saudi arabia

Anyway, there's no need for me to defend them and I don't believe there is any situation to be helped. Saudi Arabia's diplomats are speaking for themselves as members of the UN and I'm pretty sure they will continue without any sanctions long after their oil is gone.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree lol. United Federation of Planets is not going to happen anytime soon.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN "the stronger you tighten your grib, the more star systems will slip through your fingers" -princess leia.

LOL that's awesome!! It's true what they say--you really are a geek!

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN sorry, but the ever-increasing affluence and insidious popular culture of the west will one day dominate the world. you can already see it now; mid east nations having to ban satellite tv etc. videos of osama (or was it al sadr, i forget) wearing reebok runners etc. INFORMATION is the key. the chinese know it, that's why they're attempting to control an entire society's access to it. people will come to realise that the easiet way to guarantee "roofs over heads and food in bellies" is through free trade markets. and to have proper free trade, you need free government. it is inevitable. "the stronger you tighten your grib, the more star systems will slip through your fingers" -princess leia. so true. the oligarchs and dictators in this world cannot possibly remain ad nauseum, there will be too much information, popular culture, economic influence for it to be so. the dictatorship has a limited lifespan. too many citizens around the world appreciate the beauty of our (very) flawed democracies. they will want their gaming systems, music, books, tv shows, elections, free newspapers etc etc etc. it is only a matter of time. social evolition. it will happen.

don't assume that people will like the information they have access to.

just because they can have all the western ideas and pop culture and whatnot, this does not mean the people will automatically accept them

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Originally posted by fayraree Anyway, there's no need for me to defend them and I don't believe there is any situation to be helped. Saudi Arabia's diplomats are speaking for themselves as members of the UN and I'm pretty sure they will continue without any sanctions long after their oil is gone.

realpolitik will dominate international politics, no matter how much the idealists preach free democracy, free trade and whatever

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Originally posted by fayraree LOL that's awesome!! It's true what they say--you really are a geek!

fuck yeah man. i was playing games before most TAs were born, i cried at the age of about 5 when i couldn't understand all the words in "pit and the pendulum", the first movie i remember seeing at the cinema was return of the jedi, the first job i ever had was so i could buy a PC, my favourite books are fantasy, my favourite tv shows are scifi, i played D&D as a young adult. the list goes on

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Originally posted by EvilTree don't assume that people will like the information they have access to. just because they can have all the western ideas and pop culture and whatnot, this does not mean the people will automatically accept them

of course it does. it will leak into their societies. self-interest will come to dominate. the free market will kill the oligarchs in the middle east, mark my words.

if you could present an alternative argument, that has a plausible reason why societies will NOT pursue avenues of greater wealth and prosperity, i would really like to read it.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN of course it does. it will leak into their societies. self-interest will come to dominate. the free market will kill the oligarchs in the middle east, mark my words. if you could present an alternative argument, that has a plausible reason why societies will NOT pursue avenues of greater wealth and prosperity, i would really like to read it.

your argument is based upon the fact that free market is guarantee to prosperity in general and that everyone gets rich. this is not true

at least from outset, 'free market' in Russia only benefits few. the rise of authoritarianism in Germany from 20s to 30s is large part due to failure of free market economy. (well, indemnities Versailles didn't help)

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Originally posted by EvilTree your argument is based upon the fact that free market is guarantee to prosperity in general and that everyone gets rich. this is not true at least from outset, 'free market' in Russia only benefits few. the rise of authoritarianism in Germany from 20s to 30s is large part due to failure of free market economy. (well, indemnities Versailles didn't help)

no, it is based upon the fact that free markets guarantee prosperity in general, which they do.

quote:

AUSTRALIA is the third most desirable country to live in, according to an annual United Nations report that looks at wealth, life expectancy and educational levels. Australia came in behind top-ranking Iceland and Norway in second spot. The top three nations have not changed since last year's report, when Australia was again third but Norway was on top and Iceland second. AIDS-afflicted sub-Saharan African states occupied the lowest rankings of the UN Human Development Index. As expected, rich free-market countries dominate the top places. Behind Iceland, Norway and Australia come Canada and Ireland. But the US has slipped to 12th, from eighth last year.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22833151-2,00.html

germany's period of fascism was brief, so hardly a valid argument. especially considering their status now as an open, free trade monster.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN germany's period of fascism was brief, so hardly a valid argument. especially considering their status now as an open, free trade monster.

I brought up fascist Germany as an example, to show a discontent of the general public felt toward democracy and free market.

Yes, fascism did not last long enough in Germany due to WW2 to see whether it'd have survived a long time, but there is always a trend for authoritarianism to rise, especially when there is discontent due to poor economy. There's always a way for a dictator to hold onto power. (See Tito, Castro, Kim Il Sung/Kim Jong Il)

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Originally posted by EvilTree Yes, fascism did not last long enough in Germany due to WW2 to see whether it'd have survived a long time, but there is always a trend for authoritarianism to rise, especially when there is discontent due to poor economy. There's always a way for a dictator to hold onto power. (See Tito, Castro, Kim Il Sung/Kim Jong Il)

oh, absolutely. and im not suggesting it will happen overnight, but it will happen. societies will need to embrace free market economics to avoid falling further and further behind, and the populace will know they are falling behind because of all the images the west saturate the world with every second of every day.

people will want their big screen tvs, pop music, reebok shoes, fast food outlets, freedom of vocation etc. and to get these things they will need a less restrictive society. self interest will supplant oppression at the end of the day.

you can already see it in china now. there is a growing capitalist class, and just as the growing industrial class took down the monarchies of europe, so will the new industrialists take town the dictatorships in asia and elsewhere.

people will be driven towards affluent economic structures, and you cannot keep the lid on a growing class that has power like the new capitalists are developing.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN oh, absolutely. and im not suggesting it will happen overnight, but it will happen. societies will need to embrace free market economics to avoid falling further and further behind, and the populace will know they are falling behind because of all the images the west saturate the world with every second of every day. people will want their big screen tvs, pop music, reebok shoes, fast food outlets, freedom of vocation etc. and to get these things they will need a less restrictive society. self interest will supplant oppression at the end of the day. you can already see it in china now. there is a growing capitalist class, and just as the growing industrial class took down the monarchies of europe, so will the new industrialists take town the dictatorships in asia and elsewhere. people will be driven towards affluent economic structures, and you cannot keep the lid on a growing class that has power like the new capitalists are developing.

hmmm... I'm not sure about adopting the western culture thing.

yes, people want to be rich (who wouldn't?)

but a lot of people do not want their culture to be that of beverley hills 90210 or jackass or whatever 'decadent' western society

I think many cultures will incorporate western ideas (just like east asia did) but a lot of cultures will define 'modernity' in their own way, esp. with those with a hard on hatred of anything west.

strong cultural identity is what a lot of people identify themselves with. to assume that western culture will 'triumph' over that of other cultures IMO is not correct

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Originally posted by EvilTree hmmm... I'm not sure about adopting the western culture thing. yes, people want to be rich (who wouldn't?) but a lot of people do not want their culture to be that of beverley hills 90210 or jackass or whatever 'decadent' western society I think many cultures will incorporate western ideas (just like east asia did) but a lot of cultures will define 'modernity' in their own way, esp. with those with a hard on hatred of anything west. strong cultural identity is what a lot of people identify themselves with. to assume that western culture will 'triumph' over that of other cultures IMO is not correct

im not saying there will be a cultural revolution, moreso when it comes to legal frameworks, which will come about through citizen CHOICE. the capitalist class will want a say in how their capital is run, the student class will want unfettered access to the internet and other forms of media, workers will want the right to organise to protect their rights under the capitalist class.

western culture is already "triumphing" over local content, be it through music, movies, blogs, or just the desire for freedom of expression away from their oppressive government. it won't necessarily replace tradition, but it WILL replace ideology that says "you cannot listen to music style X" or "you cannot go to the mall without a male relative".

once pandora's box is opened it can never be closed again. information and freedom to choose which elements of other cultures to enjoy will ultimately kill any dictatorial regime that has an advanced economy. and a lucrative, advanced economy is the goal of most societies.

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