TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- If you could have dinner with 3 thinkers, who would you invite to such an occasion?
Pages (4): « 1 2 3 [4]
It's cool. still love you guys
flame bait: n.
[common] A posting intended to trigger a flame war, or one that invites flames in reply. See also troll.
http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/F/flame-bait.html
troll
1. v.,n. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself. Derives from the phrase �trolling for newbies� which in turn comes from mainstream �trolling�, a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it. See also YHBT.
2. n. An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, �Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll.� Compare kook.
3. n. [Berkeley] Computer lab monitor. A popular campus job for CS students. Duties include helping newbies and ensuring that lab policies are followed. Probably so-called because it involves lurking in dark cavelike corners.
Some people claim that the troll (sense 1) is properly a narrower category than flame bait, that a troll is categorized by containing some assertion that is wrong but not overtly controversial. See also Troll-O-Meter.
The use of �troll� in any of these senses is a live metaphor that readily produces elaborations and combining forms. For example, one not infrequently sees the warning �Do not feed the troll� as part of a followup to troll postings.
http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/troll.html
Re: It's cool. still love you guys
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Trancer-X kook: n. [common] [Usenet; originally and more formally, net.kook] Term used to describe a regular poster who continually posts messages with no apparent grounding in reality. Different from a troll, which implies a sort of sly wink on the part of a poster who knows better, kooks really believe what they write, to the extent that they believe anything. The kook trademark is paranoia and grandiosity. Kooks will often build up elaborate imaginary support structures, fake corporations and the like, and continue to act as if those things are real even after their falsity has been documented in public. While they may appear harmless, and are usually filtered out by the other regular participants in a newsgroup of mailing list, they can still cause problems because the necessity for these measures is not immediately apparent to newcomers; there are several instances on record, for example, of journalists writing stories with quotes from kooks who caught them unaware. An entertaining web page chronicling the activities of many notable kooks can be found at http://www.crank.net/usenet.html. |
excellent post leb and very accurate from where im sitting!
Re: It's cool. still love you guys
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Trancer-X flame bait: n. [common] A posting intended to trigger a flame war, or one that invites flames in reply. See also troll. http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/F/flame-bait.html troll 1. v.,n. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself. Derives from the phrase �trolling for newbies� which in turn comes from mainstream �trolling�, a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it. See also YHBT. 2. n. An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, �Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll.� Compare kook. 3. n. [Berkeley] Computer lab monitor. A popular campus job for CS students. Duties include helping newbies and ensuring that lab policies are followed. Probably so-called because it involves lurking in dark cavelike corners. Some people claim that the troll (sense 1) is properly a narrower category than flame bait, that a troll is categorized by containing some assertion that is wrong but not overtly controversial. See also Troll-O-Meter. The use of �troll� in any of these senses is a live metaphor that readily produces elaborations and combining forms. For example, one not infrequently sees the warning �Do not feed the troll� as part of a followup to troll postings. http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/troll.html |
Not that I'm ever going to take either of you off ignore, but if you guys are going to infect every thread with your pro-status quo tripe, the least you could do is keep in relevant to the topic at hand. Your having to latch onto my nuts because you have no balls of your own is really sad. 
Re: Re: It's cool. still love you guys
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Q5echo i don't know man, when you find yourself describing yourself or others with internet jargon and Usenet definitions as a reaction to, conversely, "real world" complaints and criticisms of your behaviour...you kinda have to take a step back and check wtf is actually going on my life that i have to respond in this manner or respond at all really. |
Re: Re: Re: It's cool. still love you guys
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Trancer-X I post bulletins all of the time on MySpace and all I ever get over there is 'thank you' messages |
In all honesty, I'd love to have dinner with these two contemporary chaps:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/69004
Throw Samantha Power in there as a moderator, and that would be dinner AND a show.
Re: Re: Re: Re: It's cool. still love you guys
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Q5echo i have to admit that was kind of funny. |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's cool. still love you guys
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Trancer-X How so? Are you somehow trying to say that the five dolts who constantly troll this forum better represent humanity than the almost 15K people that I have as friends on MySpace? |
Go on and get over me, Leb. I got over you a long time ago.
I love the wisdom of Schopenhauer
| quote: |
| Originally posted more... Arthur Schopenhauer, Francis Bacon and Robert Fludd |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's cool. still love you guys
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Trancer-X How so? Are you somehow trying to say that the five dolts who constantly troll this forum better represent humanity than the almost 15K people that I have as friends on MySpace? And again, what does any of this have to do with the thread topic? You guys sure love to detract from anything even remotely of value on this board, don't you? |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's cool. still love you guys
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Trancer-X How so? Are you somehow trying to say that the five dolts who constantly troll this forum better represent humanity than the almost 15K people that I have as friends on MySpace? And again, what does any of this have to do with the thread topic? You guys sure love to detract from anything even remotely of value on this board, don't you? |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's cool. still love you guys
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Trancer-X And again, what does any of this have to do with the thread topic? You guys sure love to detract from anything even remotely of value on this board, don't you? |
| quote: |
Irony is a literary or rhetorical device, in which there is an incongruity or discordance between what a speaker or a writer says and what he or she means, or is generally understood. In modern usage it can also refer to particularly striking examples of incongruities observed in everyday life between what was intended or said and what actually happened. There is some argument about what is or is not ironic, but all the different senses of irony revolve around the perceived notion of an incongruity between what is said and what is meant; or between an understanding of reality, or an expectation of a reality, and what actually happens. Irony can be funny, but it does not have to be. The term Socratic irony, which was coined by Aristotle, refers to the Socratic Method. It is not irony in the modern sense of the word[ Types of irony Most modern theories of rhetoric distinguish between three types of irony: verbal, dramatic and situational. Verbal irony is a disparity of expression and intention: when a speaker says one thing but means another, or when a literal meaning is contrary to its intended effect. Dramatic (or tragic) irony is a disparity of expression and awareness: when words and actions possess a significance that the listener or audience understands, but the speaker or character does not. Situational irony is the disparity of intention and result: when the result of an action is contrary to the desired or expected effect. Likewise, cosmic irony is disparity between human desires and the harsh realities of the outside world (or the whims of the gods). By some older definitions, situational irony and cosmic irony are not irony at all. [edit] Verbal irony, including sarcasm Verbal irony is distinguished from situational irony and dramatic irony in that it is produced intentionally by speakers. For instance, if a speaker exclaims, �I�m not upset!� but reveals an upset emotional state through her voice while truly trying to claim she's not upset, it would not be verbal irony just by virtue of its verbal manifestation (it would, however, be situational irony). But if the same speaker said the same words and intended to communicate that she was upset by claiming she was not, the utterance would be verbal irony. This distinction gets at an important aspect of verbal irony: speakers communicate implied propositions that are intentionally contradictory to the propositions contained in the words themselves. There are examples of verbal irony that do not rely on saying the opposite of what one means, and there are cases where all the traditional criteria of irony exist and the utterance is not ironic. Ironic similes are a form of verbal irony where a speaker does intend to communicate the opposite of what they mean. For instance, the following explicit similes have the form of a statement that means P(X) but which conveys the meaning not P(X): as hairy as a bowling ball as subtle as a sledgehammer as pleasant as a root-canal as balanced as an upturned pyramid as cool as a forest fire The irony is recognizable in each case only by using stereotypical knowledge of the source concepts (e.g., bowling balls, sledgehammers) to detect an incongruity. A fair amount of confusion has surrounded the issue regarding the relationship between verbal irony and sarcasm, and psychology researchers have addressed the issue directly (e.g, Lee & Katz, 1998). For example, ridicule is an important aspect of sarcasm, but not verbal irony in general. By this account, sarcasm is a particular kind of personal criticism leveled against a person or group of persons that incorporates verbal irony. For example, a person reports to her friend that rather than going to a medical doctor to treat her ovarian cancer, she has decided to see a spiritual healer instead. In response her friend says sarcastically, "Great idea! I hear they do fine work!" The friend could have also replied with any number of ironic expressions that should not be labeled as sarcasm exactly, but still have many shared elements with sarcasm. Research shows that most instances of verbal irony are considered to be sarcastic, suggesting that the term sarcasm is more widely used than its technical definition suggests it should be (Bryant & Fox Tree, 2002; Gibbs, 2000). Some psycholinguistic theorists suggest that sarcasm ("Great idea!", "I hear they do fine work."), hyperbole ("That's the best idea I have heard in years!"), understatement ("Sure, what the hell, it's only cancer..."), rhetorical questions ("What, does your spirit have cancer?"), double entendre ("I'll bet if you do that, you'll be communing with spirits in no time...") and jocularity ("Get them to fix your bad back while you're at it.") should all be considered forms of verbal irony (Gibbs, 2000). The differences between these tropes can be quite subtle, and relate to typical emotional reactions of listeners, and the rhetorical goals of the speakers. Regardless of the various ways folk taxonomies categorize figurative language types, people in conversation are attempting to decode speaker intentions and discourse goals, and are not generally identifying, by name, the kinds of tropes used. [edit] Tragic irony (dramatic irony) Tragic irony can only take place in a fictional context. In this form of irony, the words and actions of the characters belie the real situation, which the spectators fully realize. Tragic irony particularly characterized the drama of ancient Greece, owing to the familiarity of the spectators with the legends on which so many of the plays were based. Sophocles� Oedipus the King provides a classic example of tragic irony at its fullest and finest. Irony threatens authoritative models of discourse by "removing the semantic security of �one signifier : one signified�";[2] irony has some of its foundation in the onlooker�s perception of paradox which arises from insoluble problems. For example: In the William Shakespeare play, Romeo and Juliet, when Romeo finds Juliet in a drugged death-like sleep, he assumes her to be dead and kills himself. Upon awakening to find her dead lover beside her, Juliet kills herself with his knife. In O. Henry's story The Gift of the Magi, a young couple is too poor to buy each other Christmas gifts. The man finally pawns his heirloom pocket watch to buy his wife a set of combs for her long, beautiful, prized hair. She, meanwhile, cuts off her treasured hair to sell it to a wig-maker for money to buy her husband a watch-chain. [edit] Situational irony Definition: irony of a situation is a discrepancy between the expected result and actual results when enlivened by 'perverse appropriateness'. This is a relatively modern use of the term -- see "Usage Controversy", below. For example: When John Hinckley attempted to assassinate President Ronald Reagan, all of his shots initially missed the President; however a bullet ricocheted off the bullet-proof windows of the Presidential limousine and struck Reagan in the chest. Thus, the windows made to protect the President from gunfire were partially responsible for his being shot. Monty Python's last comedy album The Hastily Cobbled Together for a Fast Buck Album was continuously delayed from release for various reasons, having yet to see an official release, and has since been made available online for free by the group, thus making the album neither hasty nor earning the group a single buck. [edit] Irony of fate (cosmic irony) The common household expression �irony of fate� stems from the notion that the gods (or the Fates) are amusing themselves by toying with the minds of mortals, with deliberate ironic intent. Closely connected with situational irony, it arises from sharp contrasts between reality and human ideals, or between human intentions and actual results. For example: In 1974 the Consumer Product Safety Commission recalled 80,000 of its own lapel buttons promoting toy safety. The buttons had paint with too much lead, sharp edges, and clips that could be broken off and swallowed. [3] Importing Cane Toads to Australia to protect the environment only to create worse environmental problems for Australia. Jim Fixx, who did much to popularize jogging as a form of healthy exercise in his 1977 book The Complete Book of Running, died at the age of 52 of a heart attack (a death associated with sedentary, unhealthy lifestyles) while out jogging. In the Kalgoorlie (Australia) gold rush of the 1890s, large amounts of the little-known mineral calaverite (gold telluride) were identified as fool's gold, and were discarded. The mineral deposits were used as a building material, and for the filling of potholes and ruts. (Several years later, the nature of the mineral was identified, leading to a minor gold rush to excavate the streets). [edit] Historical irony (cosmic irony through time) When history is seen through modern eyes, it sometimes happens that there is an especially sharp contrast between the way historical figures see their world and the probable future of their world, and what actually transpired. What we now refer to as "World War I" was originally called The War to End All Wars; this is an example of historical irony. Historical irony is therefore a subset of cosmic irony, but one in which the element of time is bound up. For example: Contrasting statements were made at the dawn of computers, which were initially thought to be devices never capable of use outside a government or academic setting, with Thomas Watson, Chairman of IBM, saying, "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." Today computers are ubiquitous. "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Nearly the last words of American Civil War General John Sedgwick before being shot through the eye by a Confederate sniper.[4] In Dallas, in response to Mrs. Connally's comment, "Mr. President, you can't say that Dallas doesn't love you," John F. Kennedy said, "That's very obvious." He was assassinated immediately afterwards.[5] [edit] Irony in use [edit] Ironic art One point of view has it that all modern art is ironic because the viewer cannot help but compare it to previous works. For example, any portrait of a standing, non-smiling woman will naturally be compared with the Mona Lisa; the tension of meaning exists, whether the artist meant it or not. While this does not appear to exactly conform to any of the three types of irony above, there is some evidence that the term "ironic art" is being used in this context [6]. This definition could extend to any sort of modern artistic endeavour: graphic design; or music (sampling, for example). [edit] Comic irony Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice begins with the proposition �It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.� In fact, it soon becomes clear that Austen means the opposite: women (or their mothers) are always in search of, and desperately on the lookout for, a rich single man to make a husband. The irony deepens as the story promotes his romance and ends in a double wedding. Comic irony from television sketch-comedy has the distinction over literary comic irony in that it often incorporates elements of absurdity. A classic example is where a shark trying to impress his shark friends by learning to surf. He then surfs so well that his friends mistake him for an actual surfer and eat him. Or, for instance, an ironic situation might involve getting hit by a rib-delivery truck after trying to poison someone with bad rib-sauce to steal his gems. [7] Comic irony has long been a staple of comic strips, in which the action is free to be unrealistic. An example is a notable Far Side cartoon in which a hapless cat is trapped against an inside house window, having to watch the once-in-a-lifetime consequences of a collision outside between a truck labeled "Al's Rodents," and another labeled "Ernie's Small Flightless Birds." [edit] Metafiction Main article: Metafiction Metafictions are kinds of fiction which self-consciously addresses the devices of fiction. It usually involves irony and is self-reflective. Metafiction (or �romantic irony� in the sense of roman the prose fiction) refers to the effect when a story is interrupted to remind the audience or reader that it is really only a story. Examples include Henry Fielding�s interruptions of the storyline to comment on what has happened, or J.M. Barrie�s similar interjections in his book, Peter Pan. Daniel Handler�s (known as Lemony Snicket) A Series of Unfortunate Events could also be considered a form of romantic irony, in which the action is frequently halted for a warning that the events to follow could be potentially distressing. Kurt Vonnegut wrote in metafiction in such critically acclaimed books as Slaughterhouse-Five, Breakfast of Champions and Cat's Cradle. The concept is also explored in a philosophical context in Sophie�s World, by Jostein Gaarder. A similar example occurs in The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy novel where the narrator reveals in advance �in the interest of reducing stress� that nobody will get hurt by a pair of incoming nuclear warheads, but that he will leave some suspense by stating that he would not reveal whose upper arm would get bruised in the process. A notable attempt to sustain metafiction throughout a whole novel is Christie Malry's Own Double Entry by B.S. Johnson, none of the characters are real and exist only within the author's imagination. [edit] Usage controversy There is considerable argument on the usage of the word "irony". Authority, in the form of dictionaries and usage guides, can be cited on both sides. Descriptivists generally discount such self-proclaimed language authorities in favor of studying how individuals currently use the word. The word ironic is sometimes used incorrectly as a synonym for incongruous or coincidental in situations where there is no �double audience,� and no contradiction between the ostensible and true meaning of the words. An example of such usage: Ironically, Sir Arthur Sullivan is remembered for the comic operas he found embarrassing, rather than the serious works he hoped would be his legacy. The American Heritage Dictionary�s usage panel found it unacceptable to use the word ironic to describe mere unfortunate coincidences or surprising disappointments that �suggest no particular lessons about human vanity or folly.� This definition still allows the above usage but excludes examples like Alanis Morissette�s �It's a traffic jam when you're already late� for a meeting, unless perhaps the topic of the meeting were traffic congestion, not something implied by the lyrics of �Ironic�. The American Heritage Dictionary recognizes a secondary meaning for irony: �incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs.� This sense, however, is not synonymous with "incongruous" but merely a definition of dramatic or situational irony. The word incongruity is not in the active vocabulary for most speakers of the English language, irony being much more widespread among those wanting to be precise in their language. Other historical prescriptivists have even stricter definitions for the word irony. Henry Watson Fowler, in The King�s English, says �any definition of irony�though hundreds might be given, and very few of them would be accepted�must include this, that the surface meaning and the underlying meaning of what is said are not the same.� Fowler would thus consider the Sullivan example above as incorrect usage. This controversy is parodied in the Futurama episode "The Devil's Hands Are Idle Playthings", in which Bender repeatedly corrects people who use the term ironic incorrectly. |
A few more since I eat dinner so often
Charles Baudelaire, Richard Feynman and Jean-Paul Sartre 
Re: A few more since I eat dinner so often
I should've mentioned you can resurrect just 3 thinkers... and you can have dinner just once with them. Even if you skip lunch, you cannot have an extra dinner.
Just thought I'd make that clear
Re: Re: A few more since I eat dinner so often
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Lira I should've mentioned you can resurrect just 3 thinkers... and you can have dinner just once with them. Even if you skip lunch, you cannot have an extra dinner. Just thought I'd make that clear |
Re: Re: Re: A few more since I eat dinner so often
| quote: |
| Originally posted by zen_zo Its too late now, a lot many people have already posted. |
Besides, most posters did grasp the concept right from the beginning.
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.