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Originally posted by nchs09 In the basement... and have babies with it.

That is one story I do not joke about

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Originally posted by smakmagik That is one story I do not joke about

fag.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN fag.

TELL THAT TO THE POOR WOMAN WHO WAS RAPED BY HER FATHER AND GAVE BIRTH TO KIDS WHOSE GRANDFATHER AND FATHER WAS THE SAME MAN, AND WHOSE DEAD SIBLINGS WERE LEFT TO ROT IN THE FUCKING OVEN OR WHATEVER, AND WHO, ALONG WITH THE CHILDREN THAT LIVED, HAD NOT SEEN THE LIGHT OF DAY FOR ALL THOSE YEARS. WHAT TRAUMA, WHAT PAIN, WHAT SUFFERING THEY MUST HAVE GONE THROUGH.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN hahahahha. harsh, but fair. points to theresa for having her heart in the right place though. she just doesnt have the experience in semantic logic that you do mate

The road to hell is paved with good intentions m8.

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Originally posted by UWM Actually the rates would be about 1/500.

Source?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Ive never found genetic bonds to be particularly important. Bonds through experience, mutual respect and love are far more powerful imo. The way you attempt to speak for wide groups of people really shits me. How on earth can you maintain such a belief without hearing the opinions of thousands of adopted children everywhere? If adoption isnt right for you then wonderful, but I fail to see how you can argue that a child is better off aborted than adopted.

Considering I have said many times "my opinion" and "personally" and "this is how I feel", I would imagine that you would have clued in that I am NOT speaking for anyone other than myself.

I was in foster homes several times growing up and have maintained friendships with many people who were never adopted. I speak with conviction because I do not think that what has happened to those people is right, or fair.

I don't think that the negligence of people should be acceptable. It seems that as a society it has become ok for people not to take ownership for themselves. I think it's B.S.

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Originally posted by RJT There's a really easy explanation for that. Theresa = Right People who disagree with Theresa = Wrong I never, ever want to be right again.

Seriously Rob, please block me. I am so sick and tired of having you reply to my posts with inane drivel to try and make yourself feel better. BTW pot calling kettle black? You're the one who seems to feel the need to be right all the time, and you have openly admitted it.

If you actually disagree with me, instead of trying to bring me down for my stance, why not try and provide some intelligent discussion about why you think I am wrong?

I have never claimed that I am not open to discussing other possibilities/viewpoints. In fact, that is why I openly verbalize my opinions so that they can be challenged and discussed.

Apparently you are unable to do this without making it personal and attacking both my character, my judgment, and who I am as a person.

So if you can't be bothered, block me so that you wont be tempted to reply with your shit anymore. If you don't, I will.

Thanks.

Ah yes, but PKC doesn't believe in hell.

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Originally posted by smakmagik TELL THAT TO THE POOR WOMAN WHO WAS RAPED BY HER FATHER AND GAVE BIRTH TO KIDS WHO'S GRANDFATHER AND FATHER WAS THE SAME MAN, AND WHOSE DEAD SIBLINGS WERE LEFT TO ROT IN THE FUCKING OVEN OR WHATEVER, AND WHO, ALONG WITH THE CHILDREN THAT LIVED, HAD NOT SEEN THE LIGHT OF DAY FOR ALL THOSE YEARS. WHAT TRAUMA, WHAT PAIN, WHAT SUFFERING THEY MUST HAVE GONE THROUGH.

I think she stayed there because she liked it. What kind of woman decides to have babies with her dad? Even after years she still didn't bother to pop down to the chemist and buy some birth control pills. I bet she had screaming orgasms.

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Originally posted by RJT The road to hell is paved with good intentions m8.

oh yeah, and im not saying be gentle (haha, as if i could come across with any weight if i said that!!) just that there are idiots who DONT have good intentions that i find less tolerable.

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Originally posted by smakmagik TELL THAT TO THE POOR WOMAN WHO WAS RAPED BY HER FATHER AND GAVE BIRTH TO KIDS WHO'S GRANDFATHER AND FATHER WAS THE SAME MAN, AND WHOSE DEAD SIBLINGS WERE LEFT TO ROT IN THE FUCKING OVEN OR WHATEVER, AND WHO, ALONG WITH THE CHILDREN THAT LIVED, HAD NOT SEEN THE LIGHT OF DAY FOR ALL THOSE YEARS. WHAT TRAUMA, WHAT PAIN, WHAT SUFFERING THEY MUST HAVE GONE THROUGH.

Okay.

Dear POOR WOMAN WHO WAS RAPED BY HER FATHER AND GAVE BIRTH TO KIDS WHO'S GRANDFATHER AND FATHER WAS THE SAME MAN, AND WHOSE DEAD SIBLINGS WERE LEFT TO ROT IN THE FUCKING OVEN OR WHATEVER, AND WHO, ALONG WITH THE CHILDREN THAT LIVED, HAD NOT SEEN THE LIGHT OF DAY FOR ALL THOSE YEARS. WHAT TRAUMA, WHAT PAIN, WHAT SUFFERING THEY MUST HAVE GONE THROUGH,

Rather than give a child up for adoption, it would be best to keep it in the cellar and have babies with it. Don't you agree?

Thoughtfully yours,

Arbiter

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Originally posted by Theresa Source?

Actually, I do believe the burden of proof is on you to substantiate your "1 in 1,000,000" claim.

However, basic maths tell me that a 99.8% effective rate means that 2/1000 times will fail.

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Originally posted by Theresa Considering I have said many times "my opinion" and "personally" and "this is how I feel", I would imagine that you would have clued in that I am NOT speaking for anyone other than myself.

oh but you are. saying "my opinion is that women shouldnt adopt out their children" is exactly the same thing if you left off the "my opinion" part.

yes, it is your opinion, but you are clearly displaying what you think should (or in this case should not) happen with regards to the current adoption attitudes and/or guidelines.

you are attempting to speak for the multitude of adoptive children (and parents for that matter) without really having any right to do so.

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Originally posted by RJT You know what you're doing right here though? It's called propaganda - that's what happens when someone takes half of the facts of a situation and posits them in a manner to support their own agenda instead of what is actually the case. Do you know why there are far less children being adopted than there are still in the system? Do you know how kids go "into the system" in the first place? No need for you to answer, it's clearly a no. I'm not being a dick, Theresa - I just cannot stand when people spout the kind of pseudo-intellectual drivel that you do day in and day out on here. You haven't got a clue, and your self-righteous attitude in concert with your idiocy make you one of the most irritating and annoying posters this forum has ever seen.

Uhh, the numbers speak for themselves.

There are more children in the system then there should be. People should not be able to get off so easily to just give up what they created.

Do YOU know why they are in the system? Claiming that I obviously don't suggests that you apparently think you do. Care to use your wonderful brain of yours and share it with us? Maybe have a normal conversation about it?

You are being a dick Rob. I challenged you before, and being the self-righteous guy that you are, you didn't like it. Since then, you have had a vendetta against me and haven't been able to apparently let it go despite my best efforts to play nice.

And of course, since you're the "cool" guy who smokes pot and parties with many of the frequent posters here, you have managed to get some band wagoners in on the Theresa hating.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Okay. Dear POOR WOMAN WHO WAS RAPED BY HER FATHER AND GAVE BIRTH TO KIDS WHO'S GRANDFATHER AND FATHER WAS THE SAME MAN, AND WHOSE DEAD SIBLINGS WERE LEFT TO ROT IN THE FUCKING OVEN OR WHATEVER, AND WHO, ALONG WITH THE CHILDREN THAT LIVED, HAD NOT SEEN THE LIGHT OF DAY FOR ALL THOSE YEARS. WHAT TRAUMA, WHAT PAIN, WHAT SUFFERING THEY MUST HAVE GONE THROUGH, Rather than give a child up for adoption, it would be best to keep it in the cellar and have babies with it. Don't you agree? Thoughtfully yours, Arbiter

oh fucken LOL. hahaha.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I think she stayed there because she liked it. What kind of woman decides to have babies with her dad? Even after years she still didn't bother to pop down to the chemist and buy some birth control pills. I bet she had screaming orgasms.

I quite like this fellow.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Okay. Dear POOR WOMAN WHO WAS RAPED BY HER FATHER AND GAVE BIRTH TO KIDS WHO'S GRANDFATHER AND FATHER WAS THE SAME MAN, AND WHOSE DEAD SIBLINGS WERE LEFT TO ROT IN THE FUCKING OVEN OR WHATEVER, AND WHO, ALONG WITH THE CHILDREN THAT LIVED, HAD NOT SEEN THE LIGHT OF DAY FOR ALL THOSE YEARS. WHAT TRAUMA, WHAT PAIN, WHAT SUFFERING THEY MUST HAVE GONE THROUGH, Rather than give a child up for adoption, it would be best to keep it in the cellar and have babies with it. Don't you agree? Thoughtfully yours, Arbiter

Dude, stay out of this.

Ok, T...I'll bite.

If we wanna go "the system" route...do you really think it's any better for these kids if they stay in homes where they aren't wanted, or in environments that are unstable? What do you think it's like to grow up with a parent with a substance abuse problem? Or what if they are abusive? Also, do you think it costs the government any less to support young mothers??

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Originally posted by smakmagik TELL THAT TO THE POOR WOMAN WHO WAS RAPED BY HER FATHER AND GAVE BIRTH TO KIDS WHOSE GRANDFATHER AND FATHER WAS THE SAME MAN, AND WHOSE DEAD SIBLINGS WERE LEFT TO ROT IN THE FUCKING OVEN OR WHATEVER, AND WHO, ALONG WITH THE CHILDREN THAT LIVED, HAD NOT SEEN THE LIGHT OF DAY FOR ALL THOSE YEARS. WHAT TRAUMA, WHAT PAIN, WHAT SUFFERING THEY MUST HAVE GONE THROUGH.

Ill tell her. Should i invite her to my basement? I am sure she will be reluctant to come.

My sister is adopted.

Half of her "biological family" is in jail, the other half are actual crack addicts.

I'm not even joking either, her bio-mom claimed my mom and dad "stole her out of her stomach" and that my sister should have been allowed to make up her own mind. (She was 6 months old I think).

Her bio-family is like something off Maury, I love rural Quebec

i've never understood anti-abortion arguments. a fetus becomes human at the point in which the brain develops. before this point, it is just a body, a collection of cells, with no self-awareness.

"but you're killing a life".

what the fuck?

i kill a few million potential babies every day, it's called wanking. by this argument, pro-lifers should be against menstruation, wanking and sex as well, because they're all guilty of "killing life". Anyway...

If you were adopted, would you want to know?
Yes, from day one. It is better to know where you stand straight away, than find out when you are 40.

If you knew, would you want to meet your birth parents?
Yes.

If you adopted a child, how would you feel about the birth mother trying to contact you?
I'd suss her out. If shes a deadbeat, I wouldn't let her near my child.

If you gave up a child, would you want to contact him or her when they reached adulthood?
Yes.

Any other thoughts on adoption?
I have nothing against adoption. When I drive through the northern suburbs (shit hole) and see how these people live, it's pretty easy to be pro-adoption.

It's a pretty straight forward decision:
"Can I raise a child better than the state?"
If not, then the baby should go up for adoption. Simple.

Theresa, your attitude towards adoption is absolutely retarded, I'm sorry.

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Not to mention that a lot of them do not become upstanding citizens and then continue to use the system as adults.

This is straight up wrong. Children who are under the care of the system usually recieve good education and are better off than ALOT of people in shit areas, at least in Australia. My irish grandfather went into the system when he was about 6 or so... and came out the other end an engineer. likewise, my russian grandfathers entire family was killed when he was 10. he landed in australia at 11-12, without even being able to speak a word of english. He did ok for himself though and never had to rely on the system. Infact, the system wasn't even there for him at all - he got sent to labour camps. That was decades ago, when social security was primitive to say the least. Lastly, one of my best mates has been "alone" his entire life and is now at uni.

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Originally posted by nchs09 Ill tell her. Should i invite her to my basement? I am sure she will be reluctant to come.

Would she? Going down to basements with guys for purposes of pleasure would be her 'thing' wouldn't it?

*Waits for image of stickwoman in dark basement with 'I'd Hit It' written above to do the rounds on the internet soon*

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Originally posted by echosystm i've never understood anti-abortion arguments. a fetus becomes human at the point in which the brain develops. before this point, it is just a body, a collection of cells, with no self-awareness. "but you're killing a life". what the fuck?

Educated people understand these things.

Uneducated people don't.

My next door neighbour was a ward of the government right up until last summer when she turned 18. She is a smart, hard working girl, and will be starting school in the fall for nursing. She works two jobs to pay her rent, and has saved all of her money to pay for school. She's owned 2 cars, both of which she paid cash for.

Doesn't sound like she grew up to abuse the system to me.

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Originally posted by UWM Actually, I do believe the burden of proof is on you to substantiate your "1 in 1,000,000" claim. However, basic maths tell me that a 99.8% effective rate means that 2/1000 times will fail.

Clearly it was an exaggeration, but any reason to join the hating game right?

The only stats I can find have condoms and the pill separate. I cannot seem to find any stats combining the two. Anyone else able to find anything?

http://www.fda.gov/Fdac/features/1997/conceptbl.html

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN oh but you are. saying "my opinion is that women shouldnt adopt out their children" is exactly the same thing if you left off the "my opinion" part. yes, it is your opinion, but you are clearly displaying what you think should (or in this case should not) happen with regards to the current adoption attitudes and/or guidelines. you are attempting to speak for the multitude of adoptive children (and parents for that matter) without really having any right to do so.

That doesn't even make sense. Yes, my opinion challenges that of many other people, but that doesn't stop me from having the right to have the opinion. This thread was asking for opinions - I stated mine.

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Originally posted by Theresa Clearly it was an exaggeration, but any reason to join the hating game right?

Well, no, actually.

When you're asking for posters in this thread to cite sources for concrete statistics and subsequently posting links to 'evidence' yourself, to go off and make up grossly exaggerated ratios is just kind of ... I don't know, ironic?

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Originally posted by jennypie My next door neighbour was a ward of the government right up until last summer when she turned 18. She is a smart, hard working girl, and will be starting school in the fall for nursing. She works two jobs to pay her rent, and has saved all of her money to pay for school. She's owned 2 cars, both of which she paid cash for. Doesn't sound like she grew up to abuse the system to me.

Other problems besides monetary issues may arise in the future. Not always but you never know, obviously these things have an impact on others.

Hopefully she does well..... unless she is a whore.

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Originally posted by jennypie Ok, T...I'll bite. If we wanna go "the system" route...do you really think it's any better for these kids if they stay in homes where they aren't wanted, or in environments that are unstable? What do you think it's like to grow up with a parent with a substance abuse problem? Or what if they are abusive? Also, do you think it costs the government any less to support young mothers??

This is the reason why I don't think they should give birth at all. None of the options are good options.

So if you want to look at it realistically, you want to say "well Theresa, not everyone is going to abort", fine. I know that is true. However, I was stating what I think should be, not what is, or ever probably will be.

So yes, given the current situation of many people being complete and utter shite... but still apparently holding the conviction that abortion is wrong, then yes, putting children up for adoption is a far better option than having deadbeat parents trying to do it.

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