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-- Mark Oliver burnt out?
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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur I'm going to take this time to mention that I really disagree with the whole opening set idea that the opening DJ has to suck in order not to steal thunder away from the headliner. First, to me, an opening set should be more about setting up the feel for the headliner, and you can have a good set that does it that isn't necessarily composed of huge club bangers. Just don't make it boring. Second, fuck the headliner. No DJ should sacrifice his ability to deliver a good set just so the headliner looks better by comparison. The reason the headliner is the headliner is that he/she should be able to deliver no matter what. If the opening DJ decides to throw down a banging set, the headliner's job is to continue where the opening DJ left off, not bitch about stolen thunder. WTF are the headliners getting paid for then? Any DJ can seem amazing if the guy before him fucks up on purpose.

i dunno man.
i think that opening for a headliner is more of an honour than a privilege. if a dj decides to open for a headliner then he/she should respect the fact that most people are there to see the main act. that is why they (the club) pays the money to bring in a headliner. imagine an opener stealing the thunder away from the headliner at a comedy show? that guy would never open again.

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Originally posted by chinamon imagine an opener stealing the thunder away from the headliner at a comedy show? that guy would never open again.

You're right....he wouldn't open again...he would become the headliner.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced You're right....he wouldn't open again...he would become the headliner.

bahha.. ya right...

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Originally posted by chinamon wrong. mark can play whatever he wants. no track list. no canadian content because it is after 12am. as for people whining about his opening sets, well... opening sets are called that for a reason. the dj is opening for the headliner. imagine the opener dj playing all the bomb tracks and stealing the thunder away from the headliner? shit would hit the fan. mark does a great job regardless if he is opening or closing or playing all night. the problem here is most of you have no idea what you are talking about.

Well Joe told me that they had to play some Canadian shit...

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur WTF are the headliners getting paid for then? Any DJ can seem amazing if the guy before him fucks up on purpose.

Yeah seriously though....

A headliner should be getting paid 10X more than the opening guy because he can throw down that much better of a set, not because the guy before him is forced to play at only 10% of his ability.

That being said I am not saying an opening DJ should be playing all of the heaviest tracks in his record collection

EDIT: on a side note, why is it that promoters pay international DJs thousands of dollars to play a set when there are probably 10 other local DJs that could throw down a set that is just as good if not better. obviously I know that they bring in big names, because that brings in big crowds... and lots of money.... its just that when you think about it, it seems kind of stupid.

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Originally posted by teufel-man EDIT: on a side note, why is it that promoters pay international DJs thousands of dollars to play a set when there are probably 10 other local DJs that could throw down a set that is just as good if not better. obviously I know that they bring in big names, because that brings in big crowds... and lots of money.... its just that when you think about it, it seems kind of stupid.

I've always said if you had 10 DJ spin the exact same track list and you couldn't see which DJ was which, I don't think 99.9% of the people could tell which DJ spun which set.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I've always said if you had 10 DJ spin the exact same track list and you couldn't see which DJ was which, I don't think 99.9% of the people could tell which DJ spun which set.

Yeah I totally agree with you.... it really raises the question, why do we go see international DJs at all in the first place? all they do is play music...

the only reasons I can think of are:
1. they are a big producer and you like a lot of their productions, so you go see they play at a local club to support them even though you know a local DJ could play the same tracklist and produce an equally good set
2. they have a really unique style, whether they play a really unique style of music or they use a lot of special effects or whatever...

but for the other 75% of DJs who just come and play all the latest popular songs? why do we pay such high cover to go see them?

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Originally posted by teufel-man 1. they are a big producer and you like a lot of their productions, so you go see they play at a local club to support them even though you know a local DJ could play the same tracklist and produce an equally good set

That is it for me. If I don't buy their music, I'd at last go see them live. More fun that way anyway.

Also, because a lot of DJs double as producers, their respective sets will have a fair bit of their own tracks in them, and if I enjoy their productions, then I would go see them knowing that i'll probably hear those tracks.

As much as Chem is technically right, there are a lot of DJs that do have their own style. I can recognize some DJs just from the tracklist of their sets.

Actually, that'd be a fun forum game: someone posts a tracklist, and people would guess who the DJ is based on the TL. I think it's actually possible to do, and not too easy to google.

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Actually, that'd be a fun forum game: someone posts a tracklist, and people would guess who the DJ is based on the TL. I think it's actually possible to do, and not too easy to google.

DO IT!!

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Originally posted by smuncky DO IT!!

+1

you guys do it, lol. I'm too busy right now to be doing this. Maybe next week, haha.

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur I'm going to take this time to mention that I really disagree with the whole opening set idea that the opening DJ has to suck in order not to steal thunder away from the headliner. First, to me, an opening set should be more about setting up the feel for the headliner, and you can have a good set that does it that isn't necessarily composed of huge club bangers. Just don't make it boring. Second, fuck the headliner. No DJ should sacrifice his ability to deliver a good set just so the headliner looks better by comparison. The reason the headliner is the headliner is that he/she should be able to deliver no matter what. If the opening DJ decides to throw down a banging set, the headliner's job is to continue where the opening DJ left off, not bitch about stolen thunder. WTF are the headliners getting paid for then? Any DJ can seem amazing if the guy before him fucks up on purpose.

Thank God you are not a DJ, otherwise you wouldn�t be getting very many gigs.
First of all, the headliner is what the club is paying for. You don�t want an opener banging it out, already wearing out the energy of the crowd before the club is even full or the headliner goes on. I don�t like hearing the same song twice in a night. Unless you are Larry Levan and it�s the Paradise Garage back in �79, no DJ�s should be doing that. I know Garage disciples like David Morales and the like do stuff like that, but David is a legend as well.
I think it takes more talent to open for a DJ than to play all the hits. You need to work the room and play tracks that have energy, but are more of a tease than anything. If you drop all the hits before people have time to get tweaked or drunk, you are wasting the track. There�s a reason DJs produced peak time anthems or warm up tracks. A warm up track should not be played during peak time and vice versa.
If a DJ thinks they are going to make a name for themselves by stealing thunder, think again. Most Djs get big because of production skills, I can�t think of many DJs who have got big by just playing sets in their local city...

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I've always said if you had 10 DJ spin the exact same track list and you couldn't see which DJ was which, I don't think 99.9% of the people could tell which DJ spun which set.

Not if you know your locals and not if you know your headliners. There have been several times I have been able to tell if it was the headliner or the opener playing without even looking at the DJ booth. Just this past Sunday for example, I knew Victor Calderone was already on, by not even knowing the time or entering the Beach Club. I know his track selection/style so I could easily call something like that.
In fact, last week I was listening to a promo that a well known DJ was playing for me. I have never heard the track before, and after listening for about a minute, I figured it was Sharam from Deep Dish and I was right. This DJ is on the promo list for a lot of the big labels in the world, and I was able to call who produced the track. All you need is a good ear to figure stuff like that out.

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Originally posted by teufel-man Yeah I totally agree with you.... it really raises the question, why do we go see international DJs at all in the first place? all they do is play music... the only reasons I can think of are: 1. they are a big producer and you like a lot of their productions, so you go see they play at a local club to support them even though you know a local DJ could play the same tracklist and produce an equally good set 2. they have a really unique style, whether they play a really unique style of music or they use a lot of special effects or whatever... but for the other 75% of DJs who just come and play all the latest popular songs? why do we pay such high cover to go see them?

There�s way more to it than that...

When I think of certain DJs, I know a lot of them have promos that local DJs wish they had. Although a lot of the local DJs in Toronto/Montreal are well connected with getting promos, there are still a lot of tracks that the locals can�t get and you can only hear by listening to the international DJ.

Also, if a venue is going to spend money on bringing in international talent, they are also likely to spend money on sound upgrades and impressive decor. There�s a lost art sometimes with Toronto parties that decor and improved sound enhance. If anyone has ever been to a Benson and Hedges Goldclub series event, you will know what I am talking about...

mark is the king!
and thats all i have to say about that.

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Originally posted by Big Boss Not if you know your locals and not if you know your headliners. There have been several times I have been able to tell if it was the headliner or the opener playing without even looking at the DJ booth. Just this past Sunday for example, I knew Victor Calderone was already on, by not even knowing the time or entering the Beach Club. I know his track selection/style so I could easily call something like that. In fact, last week I was listening to a promo that a well known DJ was playing for me. I have never heard the track before, and after listening for about a minute, I figured it was Sharam from Deep Dish and I was right. This DJ is on the promo list for a lot of the big labels in the world, and I was able to call who produced the track. All you need is a good ear to figure stuff like that out.

Like I said....if each DJ was given the same track list to play....99.9% of people wouldn't be able to tell which DJ was which. You may be the lucky .1% that can tell.

Mark is a good DJ... but why has he never succeded on the International Market? He's been around Toronto and The Guvernment for so long that it might be time for a change... Maybe playing every week-end the same venue made the Toronto crowd asking for a change? THey are so many DJ's who would just dream of playing Guvernment, Koolhaus once every 3 months... I wouldn't be against a rotation of DJs including guys from Montreal, Ottawa. Toronto is a huge market other DJ should benefit in playing!
Dom K.

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Originally posted by activate Well Joe told me that they had to play some Canadian shit...

yes, joe and fab have to play canadian content because their set on z103 is before 12am. read what i said originally.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Like I said....if each DJ was given the same track list to play....99.9% of people wouldn't be able to tell which DJ was which. You may be the lucky .1% that can tell.

Well, thats part of why I go see certain DJs - they have an impressive collection of music, a range of stuff that I've probably never listened to before. It's their job to go out, shift through the crap, find the gems, and present the music in a way that knocks my socks off.

In short - they have a better taste / ear for music than I do, and are able to build sets in such a way that pulls me in more than simply being a jukebox. If I simply wanted to hear 'this summers hits', I'd download the best sellers from beatport and put my iPod onto random.

However, then you take the great DJs - who layer tracks for extended periods of times, cut between them interestingly, have custom edits/cuts and promos - tease tracks in and out building a sense of tension, then destroying the dance floor at the right moment, only to build it back up again.

You have DJs like Lee Burridge or Craig Richards that really take you on a musical trip and keep you captivated wondering whats going to come next. Or people like Jeff Milligan who cut between 4 decks so quickly it blows your mind as 'new' tracks are almost being built on the fly.

Then people like Ricardo Villalobos who throws shit out of left field, and some of those tracks if I was to simply listen to on their own might not excite me, but how he took you there, how he tweaks them and what he does with the track makes me love them for that moment.

A good DJ is more than just a glorified juke-box, if all a DJ is doing the entire night is mixing the first few bars / last few bars of this seasons biggest hits - they are not a DJ IMO.

A big part of what makes certian DJs unique is their track selection / sound / style, and limiting them to the same set-list is a bit defeating, you might as well put the songs on random & auto-beat match in your favorite software and call it a night.

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Originally posted by kaniz Well, thats part of why I go see certain DJs - they have an impressive collection of music, a range of stuff that I've probably never listened to before. It's their job to go out, shift through the crap, find the gems, and present the music in a way that knocks my socks off. In short - they have a better taste / ear for music than I do, and are able to build sets in such a way that pulls me in more than simply being a jukebox. If I simply wanted to hear 'this summers hits', I'd download the best sellers from beatport and put my iPod onto random. However, then you take the great DJs - who layer tracks for extended periods of times, cut between them interestingly, have custom edits/cuts and promos - tease tracks in and out building a sense of tension, then destroying the dance floor at the right moment, only to build it back up again. You have DJs like Lee Burridge or Craig Richards that really take you on a musical trip and keep you captivated wondering whats going to come next. Or people like Jeff Milligan who cut between 4 decks so quickly it blows your mind as 'new' tracks are almost being built on the fly. Then people like Ricardo Villalobos who throws shit out of left field, and some of those tracks if I was to simply listen to on their own might not excite me, but how he took you there, how he tweaks them and what he does with the track makes me love them for that moment. A good DJ is more than just a glorified juke-box, if all a DJ is doing the entire night is mixing the first few bars / last few bars of this seasons biggest hits - they are not a DJ IMO. A big part of what makes certian DJs unique is their track selection / sound / style, and limiting them to the same set-list is a bit defeating, you might as well put the songs on random & auto-beat match in your favorite software and call it a night.

Many of the things you mention are the exact reasons why I only venture out to see only a few DJs nowadays.....I do believe that there is a small percentage of people who would be able to identify DJs by how they take the tracks they have and work with them....I think you could get very different sets from different DJs if they had the same list of tracks to work with. I just don't think many people could identifiy them....I know I couldn't.

Yeah, I tend to like DJs that have an identifiable "sound". I know for me, I can generally tell a Jamie Kidd set within the first track or two. I think this is also why I tend to gravitate more towards Live PAs a bit more than DJ sets for stuff that really gets me excited.

Too many DJs simply play the big hits of the moment and with not much creativity. I like going out to hear new music that excites me, not stuff I've heard 50 times before.

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Originally posted by samhouse mark is the king! and thats all i have to say about that.

+ 1

that's all i gotta say...

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Originally posted by kaniz I like going out to hear new music that excites me, not stuff I've heard 50 times before.

+1, thats the main reason I go out, to hear new music! I hate hearing songs I know for the most part.... probably because I get sick of most songs pretty quickly, some songs never get old though

Openers do play a unique role, and they definitely never try to play poorly on purpose to make the other DJ look better (and if they do they are not smart)

Opening well has to do with setting the stage for who is next, "warming" up the crowd, and sometimes it is a great place to experiment with a newer track you are unsure how people will react.

Openers really don't do that much different when they open for themselves. They still try to set the stage, warm up the crowd and get them ready for the next part of the night. Only different is when you open, you often don't get credit for the best part of the night, and that is just the way it goes. Opening is not easy to do, and I am sure a few of you can agree with me on this having done it before. You have to be restrained and patient. Sometimes your favorite track at the time just is not going to work at 12am, and it kills you that you don't get to play it out, but that is what you do, and through that respect you sort of earn your keep. Setting up a DJ well sometimes is one of the best ways to get another gig.

Mark has consistently played to a very large audience for a very long time. His ability do that has been something really amazing. There are many other residencies that are much shorter lived and that occur much less frequently, yet sometimes more hype.


I have seen MO EMBARRASS many many headlines when he closes. He has really brought the house down in those sets time and time again.

Yes I am a little bias but I dont really care.

Sorry end of rant... sorry if it doesnt make perfect sense.

Does z103 have any influence on what he plays? cause before they got involved, his sets were really good. I don't really like his opening sets but they're entirely appropriate cause he's just teasing/warming up the crowd sorta like foreplay.

I do love his closing sets though.

it's very simple to me..opening sets are for the drinking crowd and closing sets obviously not for the drinking crowd..

quote:

Originally posted by DK Man Mark is a good DJ... but why has he never succeded on the International Market?

1) He's a family man and doesn't want to be on the road all the time
2) He's faithful to Toronto/Guvernment

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