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-- Does Ebonics exemplify American laziness or efficiency?
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quote:

Originally posted by SuspicionVandit I don't understand the need for education to involve English (or any country's respective language) classes past the elementary level.

I really hope you are not being serious.
I don't know if the system is the same over there but learning the primary language as a subject at school usually involves a lot more than just learning big words and using them in sentences.

Formally teaching ebonics is cruel and unfair. How the hell can you possibly be articulate when you cant even structure a full sentence correctly.

Fuck ebonics and fuck the shitty rap that uses it to endorse being a dumb-ass failure.

Mel, haha you have yet to really hear me. I am pretty loud.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira You study linguistics too?

English Studies- 50% linguistics, 50% literature. So I have a sort of jack-of-all-trades degree. The linguistics guys kick my ass with their present perfect tenses and modal auxiliary verbs, while the literature folks out-quote me at Shakespeare without working up a sweat, but I know a bit of everything. Enough to know the Ebonics is in no way, shape or form a creole, for example.

quote:

Originally posted by Fledz Oh please. The only reason you use it is because your ancestors wanted to get away from the English as much as possible and now use a bastardized form of it.

Would you like some salt on your epic fail?

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J English Studies- 50% linguistics, 50% literature. So I have a sort of jack-of-all-trades degree. The linguistics guys kick my ass with their present perfect tenses and modal auxiliary verbs

Nah, you're fine, I was actually happy to see someone else making sense in this thread

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Nah, you're fine, I was actually happy to see someone else making sense in this thread

I RESENT THAT.

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Originally posted by Lira Nah, you're fine, I was actually happy to see someone else making sense in this thread

Hey, it's not my fault that I compiled a list of meaningless drivel in an attempt to be funny, counting on the ignorance of the typical TA poster to get my by, meanwhile getting my nonsense dragged out into the light by a linguist and unveiled as nothing but elaborate BS.

Wait, shit...yeah it is.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Incorrect. Ebonics is not a creole. A creole is a pidgin with native speakers. A pidgin is a language created from at least two existing languages (at least one substrate and a superstrate) in situations where there is no common language between speakers and one must be created out of necessity. Ebonics is merely a dialect of one source language: American English. It is only less correct than "proper speaking" through largely arbitrary processes of standardisation. It's definitely arguable that teaching a dialect over standardised language is wrong as it limits the communication and options of the pupil, but there is nothing essentially different about Ebonics from the way any of you talk when you deviate from completely standardised American English, and as such there's nothing inherently wrong with it either. Motherfucker.

While I am by no means as knowledgeable as you in the linguistic studies, am I not mistaken that the "creole" of any language is a simplified form of that language?

quote:

Originally posted by david.michael Hey, it's not my fault that I compiled a list of meaningless drivel in an attempt to be funny, counting on the ignorance of the typical TA poster to get my by, meanwhile getting my nonsense dragged out into the light by a linguist and unveiled as nothing but elaborate BS. Wait, shit...yeah it is.

Hey, you're fine too. Like I said, your post was funny, and that was your original intention so... this thread is still made of win

quote:

Originally posted by gehzumteufel While I am by no means as knowledgeable as you in the linguistic studies, am I not mistaken that the "creole" of any language is a simplified form of that language?

You are mistaken. Creoles are simplified forms of languages, but they are simplified forms of at least two languages. People often use the terms "creole" and "pidgin" to describe simplified language (IE: "pidgin English") but that's technically incorrect. Using the term like that is a bit like calling all EDM "techno"- a lot of people do it, but they're misusing the word.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You are mistaken. Creoles are simplified forms of languages, but they are simplified forms of at least two languages. People often use the terms "creole" and "pidgin" to describe simplified language (IE: "pidgin English") but that's technically incorrect. Using the term like that is a bit like calling all EDM "techno"- a lot of people do it, but they're misusing the word.

Ahh so the whole "French Creole" thing is actually an improper usage also?

quote:

Originally posted by gehzumteufel While I am by no means as knowledgeable as you in the linguistic studies, am I not mistaken that the "creole" of any language is a simplified form of that language?

hmmm... well...

On the one hand, you're (kinda) correct in your assumption, being not a student of linguistics. Creoles do appear to be simpler to the non-linguist, as they result from linguistic contact, wherein speakers need to communicate even though they don't share a common language (pidgin) but, as new generations appear, the language becomes quite complex (that's the creole). Unless you study linguistics, I don't think you ought to know the difference between pidgin languages and creoles though. They probably sound like butchered versions of one of the parent languages anyway

However, J made a mistake as well: English was not Ebonics only source language. AAVE (African American Vernacular English) was deeply influenced by - not surprisingly - African languages.

So, even though his got a point, you shouldn't feel ashamed or anything.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Creoles are simplified forms of languages

I wouldn't be so sure about that, J, as their grammar can get quite nasty after a while.

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Originally posted by Lira I wouldn't be so sure about that, J, as their grammar can get quite nasty after a while.

Note the plural- languages as in specific languages, not language as a concept. Creoles can become very developed over time, but they originate by taking simplified forms of the existing languages- the substrate and the superstrate.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira hmmm... well... On the one hand, you're (kinda) correct in your assumption, being not a student of linguistics. Creoles do appear to be simpler to the non-linguist, as they result from linguistic contact, wherein speakers need to communicate even though they don't share a common language (pidgin) but, as new generations appear, the language becomes quite complex (that's the creole). Unless you study linguistics, I don't think you ought to know the difference between pidgin languages and creoles though. They probably sound like butchered versions of one of the parent languages anyway However, J made a mistake as well: English was not Ebonics only source language. AAVE (African American Vernacular English) was deeply influenced by - not surprisingly - African languages. So, even though his got a point, you shouldn't feel ashamed or anything.

By no means was I ashamed, but it was obvious he has a much deeper understanding of linguistics than I do. I can't fully argue this, as I am really uninformed of most of this vernacular.

After riding public transportation I think I'm now fluent in ebonics.

the problem is that for many, the syntax of both written and spoken language is very important. the form and regularity of language create the structure which is necessary for effective communication. this presents a problem because effective communication is completely relative. there are many 'corrupted' dialects of languages that allow individuals to communicate completely effectively, while an outsider might will not have the same abilities.

now you don't write a financial report or present a paper using ebonics. you write or speak in the proper, standardized ways. of course there is room for creativity, but at the risk of looking like a fool. people won't take you seriously if you write or speak in ebonics. if you're a projects-to-yale wonder story, people probably will, but how many individuals do you know like this? this brings about a new topic on why and how languages change but i digress

so yeah, there's not problem using ebonics. just don't expect to get that 20 mil in venture capital.

i love ebonics lol

it never hurt no one sheeiiittt

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Note the plural- languages as in specific languages, not language as a concept. Creoles can become very developed over time, but they originate by taking simplified forms of the existing languages- the substrate and the superstrate.

Oh, I interpreted that as a one-to-one relationship, never mind then.

wow @ this thread, lol.

why focus on ebonics when redneck hicks have been fucking up the english language long before africans could speak a word of it..

quote:

Originally posted by Blake wow @ this thread, lol. why focus on ebonics when redneck hicks have been fucking up the english language long before africans could speak a word of it..

false. rednecks have not been around as long.

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