TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- Federal Election 2008 Thread
Pages (16): « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 »

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Self-employed is hardly the same as being out of the workforce.

You're right, but you get my idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper I am confused by the Liberal Carbon scheme. Will they not end up implementing a tax on the manufacturing sector, the same sector that they also promise to help out financially? I agree the world is moving towards greener business and we all have to get on board eventually, but with the economy the way it is now, I think it's the wrong strategy to be basing a big part of your platform on increased corporate taxes.

Yes 100%. They are taxing fossil fuels at the whole sale level, which means manufacturing will be hard hit. Direct resource costs will rise. Granted I am sure a lot of plants could use retrofits, and need to be upgraded, they still have to spend money on those new parts, even though the plan will subsidise those upgrades. I would love to see a case study (base case scenario) on an actual business with concrete numbers. Very unlikely the Liberals would give it to us.

Well, with all the hoopla or lack of....for this election, I can't say I'm particularly thrilled to go vote.

I agree with MarkT and a few others on most points made in this thread

So yet again, I'm prob going to vote for who I think will be best as opposition.

It's a sad election year and frankly I'm tired of reading and hearing the same crap

So who's prob best for opposition? Any Ideas anyone?

^^^

if there was some guarantee of there NOT being a CPC majority...I'd actually contemplate voting NDP or Green.

why?

to send a message to the Liberals that it's time to fix that party. Dion has to go. Regardless of whether or not he would be a good PM, he's demonstrated an inability to effectively lead the party. Whether that's through individual fault or is a party issue is now irrelevant.

I said this about Harper as a leader before the last election. He failed, despite MASSIVE scandals impacting the Liberals, to convincingly sway voters. I called for him to be turfed. I still don't think that HIS actions have resulted in the current CPC success, but rather it's still a failure of the opposition.

At this point, I actually don't care who forms the official opposition. I'm far more concerned that we don't have a CPC majority and that the opposition will have the balls to oppose the CPC in Parliament.

If you think, as I do, that Harper is a smug, bullying piece of hypocritical shit, JUST WAIT and see how he and the CPC act if they secure a majority gov't.

disaster waiting to happen...

funny...just after I posted the above, I read the following in the Toronto Star, about how Rae is removing the focus from Dion, lol:

http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/500125

quote:

... Rae said, in his lengthy political experience, "I have never seen a more secretive, a more right-wing, a more ideological, a more completely controlled party in government as the one that I have under Stephen Harper." "He's got a terrible agenda in mind for Canadians and then he comes on with that blue sweater and says 'don't worry Canadians you can relax' ... (but) we know why you are calling this election, you are trying to dupe Canadians into giving you a majority." By bringing in Rae, the Liberals are deliberately trying to turn the spotlight from the taciturn Dion to focus on the Liberal team. It wasn't lost on observers that Rae did not mention the Green Shift plan once during two length introductions. Rae said Harper isn't to be trusted and pointed to the fact the Prime Minister broke his own fixed election date law. "Last week he announced there was going to be a fixed date for the departure of our troops from Afghanistan (of 2011) and I'm looking at Mr. Harper and I am saying, buddy, if we can't believe you on the election why would we believe you on Afghanistan"

the first bolded item is all but a given, isn't it?

it's kind of hard to disagree with that last part too, lol.

Harper announced today a $750 tax credit for new home owners. Thoughts? I like it.

The whole manufacturing issue has me torn between liberal and PC though. I hate that Harper gave money to Ford...though it is a loan, not a subsidy.

$750 is $750...no question.

but why just 1st time home buyers? so because you already own a home, or don't qualify as a 1st time buyer, you don't get/need anything? why is there an assumption that a 1st time buyer is any more in need?

1st time buyers already have the Home Buyer's Plan option...and there's a GST credit on new constructions.

Harper and the CPC had a knee-jerk reaction to the sub-prime crisis by eliminating the 100% financing and 40 year amortization options, so I'm not going to pat the CPC on the back just yet with regard to home ownership and the real estate market. They should have tweaked the qualification criteria for those two options instead of scrapping them altogether.

but a tax credit sounds great to voters, I suppose?

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT but a tax credit sounds great to voters, I suppose?

you can't see this but I'm touching my nose with my index finger right now

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT but why just 1st time home buyers?

Probably because the markets and taxation structure here (including the effects of "affordable" housing and so on) are severely biased toward those already in the market. It's very hard for someone to enter the market, but once you have equity built up it's not as big a deal to move out (or "up").

I can definitely see the logic. And I have no personal stake in this, seeing as how I bought a year ago and would therefore be (just) missing out on this break. $750 ain't much in the grand scheme of things, but I suppose it's at least something.

I agree that many owners will have built up equity to help cover those costs, but the costs to move are greater once you already own, mainly because realtor commissions are paid entirely by the seller (the purchaser pays nothing to their own agent).

also factor in additional legal fees for your lawyer to handle the sale and the purchase.

I think this is yet another misguided vote grab, just like the GST cut. This is a targeted vote grab at a younger demographic though. clever.

If up to $750 in savings is going to be that last bit of help someone needs to buy, then they have no business buying in the first place.

is this a bad thing? no, of course not. I just dismiss it as more CPC fluff.

this is also a tax credit, so again, it falls to the buyer to claim it and to front the money ahead of time. It's just not as substantial as it sounds, IMHO, in relation to the good press it will garner, particulaly among younger voters.

I'd also like to see the data behind Harper's suggestion that this will create jobs in the construction industry. bull. how many people are going to run out and buy a house becuase they might save up to $750 in associated costs?

Agreed, it's a small tax break that's mostly a play for younger voters (who I would guess are not as pro-PC as the older generation.) That said, it benefits me so I like it

fair enough. nothing wrong with admitting that you like a policy that would benefit YOU :P

I see this as money thrown away, the more I think about it. This is NOT significant enough to make the difference between someone buying a house or not...ditto for spurring jobs in the contruction business. Again, if up to $750 is going to make or break someone buying, they have no business buying in the first place. Throw that 200 mil somewhere else, IMHO.


I caught only a brief bit of this morning's announcements from Dion and Layton, but liked what Dion had to say regarding post-secondary education.

For the record, and you can search any of my old posts, I have NEVER had sympathy for students who cry about tuition rates. I think we have it pretty good here and you SHOULD contribute to the costs of your education (and tuition is but a FRACTION of the actual cost).

What I've advocated is accessibility...making it easier to obtain a loan, grant, etc. Dion went a step further than lame tax credits that you have to claim and wait to receive.

please correct me if I slip up, but from what I recall:

- $450 million (per year, I think?) for research grants
- Quarterly $1000 grant for students, paid with or around the time of the GST rebates. This partially alleviates fronting all costs and waiting for a tax refund in the spring.
- the $1000 is reduced to $250 for those with jobs (I think that's what he said)
- $5000 in OSAP is *guaranteed*, regardless of family income.
- loan interest rates capped at Prime + 0.5%
- interest free grace period following graduation is extended from 6 months to 2 years.

I think these are all worthy measures that will have direct, positive impact on the majority of students, not just those who meet certain criteria. I think the 5k OSAP guarantee is a huge win and the quarterly 1k payments will help many students with living and transportation costs DURING the school year, rather than having to file their return, possibly also transfer the tuition credit to parents and wait for their return, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT please correct me if I slip up, but from what I recall: - $450 million (per year, I think?) for research grants - Quarterly $1000 grant for students, paid with or around the time of the GST rebates. This partially alleviates fronting all costs and waiting for a tax refund in the spring. - the $1000 is reduced to $250 for those with jobs (I think that's what he said) - $5000 in OSAP is *guaranteed*, regardless of family income. - loan interest rates capped at Prime + 0.5% - interest free grace period following graduation is extended from 6 months to 2 years. I think these are all worthy measures that will have direct, positive impact on the majority of students, not just those who meet certain criteria. I think the 5k OSAP guarantee is a huge win and the quarterly 1k payments will help many students with living and transportation costs DURING the school year, rather than having to file their return, possibly also transfer the tuition credit to parents and wait for their return, etc.

those are very nice improvements indeed.

$4000 a year grant for ALL students? Say what?

I don't think extending the interest free period accomplishes anything. If you can't find a job of some kind within say, a year max, you chose the wrong degree. Isn't the interest you aren't required to pay during the grace period just tacked on later anyways? If that's true, the only thing that accomplishes is more interest revenue for the government.

I want to find out more details, but I have a feeling the 'grant' just offsets the tax credit claimed later?

If that's correct, it makes more sense, meaning students get money during the year, rather than having to wait to claim tuition credits at tax time. I think "grant" thus might have been the wrong word (but I'm sure that's what he said).

the gov't doesn't earn anything on loans though, does it? does the gov't not merely guarantee the loans provided by the banks? previously, you negotiated your loan with your own bank and now they're capping the interest rate at Prime + 0.5% (which is a relatively good rate, by loan/PLC standards).

it's not really interest tacked on at the end, as you're still making small principal repayments during the grace period, no? so if you're reducing principal for 2 years (instead of 6 months) then in addition to enjoying a lower payment obligation for those 2 years, the principal balance will be lower by the time interest is applied, so your overall payment (and interest payable) is lower too. that's a big win for grads.

I think that extending the interest-free period is also significant for those who are choosing education for the sake of education or to gain access to employment in modest positions vs. education leading to more 'lucrative' career options.

nothing wrong with pursuing an MA in English...but clearly career prospects are different vs. pursuing an MBA

I think a post-secondary education develops skills, regardless of the subject matter. improved work habits, critical thinking skills, general discipline and comprehension, etc. so why not give everyone a break who has chosen to 'better' themselves even if it doesn't necessarily improve their career prospects? An educated population is worth more than simply the "job skills" it posesses, IMHO.

I'm a firm believer in improving accessibility to education. I just don't believe that current costs are excessive at all. Students crying about tuition costs get ZERO sympathy from me. I had to work every year AND take a loan to pay for school and everyone else can do the same. I think easy access to loans and flexible repayment is all that should be expected from the gov't.

actually, here are some details...so the grants do indeed replace the tax credits:

http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/500684

quote:

Dion promises support for students, research Liberal plan would provide grants, bursaries directly to post-secondary students Richard Brennan OTTAWA BUREAU LONDON, Ont. - Liberal Leader St�phane Dion today announced a major overhaul of grants and student loans to assist college and university students struggling with the high cost of getting a post secondary school education. It's part of a $1.2 billion four-year plan that Dion said a Liberal government would introduce to not only help students but dramatically increase indirect funding to post secondary school. "We have to increase support for students to make sure university and college is accessible to all Canadians. The future productivity and economic success of Canada depends on the investments we make in research and development today," Dion said during a press conference at University of Western Ontario.. Dion said a Liberal government would make post-secondary education more accessible by: � providing 200,000 needs-based bursaries of up to $3,500 per year by the fourth year of the plan. � providing 100,000 access grants of up to $4,000 per year by the fourth year. � ensuring that every student is eligible for a $5,000 student loan regardless of parental income. � guaranteeing a lower interest rate for all student loans, extending the grace period on repayment post graduation from six months to two years. "Innovation, new ideas and processes are key components of productivity and ultimately, future economic growth. The direct and indirect funds we invest in research and development today will drive the economy of the future,". Dion said. The Liberals say the only new assistance full-time students have received under the Conservative government is a tax credit for textbooks worth less than $10 per month. As well, a student must earn almost $20,000 a year to benefit fully from existing education tax credits. Dion said a Liberal government would ensure that students benefit from support when they need it by replacing the existing tuition and education credits with an upfront Education Grant payable to each student every three months at the same time as the GST rebate is paid to most students. According to the announcement, this grant, when combined with the GST rebate received by most students, will be worth about $1,000 cash per full-time undergraduate, postgraduate or college student per year. Students who work will also receive an additional $250 in their pocket as a result of the Green Shift's enriched and refundable employment credit. Over the next four years and in cooperation with the provinces, this fund will allow for the government to provide 200,000 needs-based bursaries of up to $3,500 per year.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT fair enough. nothing wrong with admitting that you like a policy that would benefit YOU :P I see this as money thrown away, the more I think about it. This is NOT significant enough to make the difference between someone buying a house or not...ditto for spurring jobs in the contruction business. Again, if up to $750 is going to make or break someone buying, they have no business buying in the first place.

I'm going thru the process of buying a house, and let me tell you any savings are welcome.

Just a few examples of money gone thru the drain to buy a house...

notary, 1200$
welcome tax 3500$
moving costs 1500$
house inspection 600$
proprety tax balance 1800$
CMHC mortgage insurance 7150$

etc etc etc... the question, would want to keep that 750$ in your pocket, or send it to ottawack? Would you spend that money on your kids, or ...

Relevant to those buying a house:

The federal government announced the changes at the beginning of August, with the new regulations going into effect October 15.

The three most significant are:

-the end of the 40-year amortization
-the requirement for borrowers to have a minimum credit score of 620
-end of zero-down mortgages

http://www.torontosun.com/newhomesa...12/6749666.html

http://www.fin.gc.ca/news08/08-051e.html

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper $4000 a year grant for ALL students? Say what? I don't think extending the interest free period accomplishes anything. If you can't find a job of some kind within say, a year max, you chose the wrong degree. Isn't the interest you aren't required to pay during the grace period just tacked on later anyways? If that's true, the only thing that accomplishes is more interest revenue for the government.

With thinking like this, liberal arts will die eventually. (and considering how many companies doesn't appreciate liberal arts degrees)

quote:

Originally posted by malek ottawack

LMAO!

quote:

Originally posted by malek I'm going thru the process of buying a house, and let me tell you any savings are welcome. Just a few examples of money gone thru the drain to buy a house... notary, 1200$ welcome tax 3500$ moving costs 1500$ house inspection 600$ proprety tax balance 1800$ CMHC mortgage insurance 7150$ etc etc etc... the question, would want to keep that 750$ in your pocket, or send it to ottawack? Would you spend that money on your kids, or ...

of course. *anyone* would appreciate saving up to $750. I bought abuot 1.5 years ago and wouldn't pass up the savings either.

I'm just saying that it's a fluffy vote grab and an unnecessary expenditure of $200 million (CPC's est. costs of implementing the plan).

I also think that is is NOT going to result in many more people deciding to buy and NOT going to create new jobs, despite Harper's statements to the contrary.

Swamper, those are the changes I mentioned earlier. If the CPC was truly interested "helping" with the real estate market, they would have tweaked the qualification criteria for those products, instead of eliminating them altogether. AFAIK, the 620 score (prev. 580, I believe) is still up for debate.

For the record, sure that 750$ won't make or brake buying a house, and Harper might be pushing it a bit, but he's on track with his ideology, less money to the government for a smaller govt and more money in citizen's pocket...

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT I just don't believe that current costs are excessive at all. Students crying about tuition costs get ZERO sympathy from me. I had to work every year AND take a loan to pay for school and everyone else can do the same. I think easy access to loans and flexible repayment is all that should be expected from the gov't.

I know relative to the US, our education is cheap in absolute dollars (particularly with a par dollar) but that doesn't change the fact that if you want to encourage post-secondary education in this country, it needs to be accessible and loans only increase the accessibilty to DEBT. The expectation that you need to take on the equivalent of a down payment on a house (or the principal on a house if you're a professional student) is absurd and shouldn't be considered encouraging.

As for OSAP, I believe the loan is interest free during your school year. During the "grace period" post-grad, you are not required to make principal or interest payments but the interest you WOULD have paid during that period is simply added to your total amt owed. Therefore if students take advantage of a longer grace period, they are only going to end up handing over more interest to the government on the loan when all is said and done.

I thought intrest is paid to banks, the government only guarantees the loan and do not profit from the intrests.

I pay my interest to the national student loans centre. If the payments are only being transferred to a bank without my knowledge, that still doesn't change the fact that it's kind of a bullshit election promise.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper Relevant to those buying a house: The federal government announced the changes at the beginning of August, with the new regulations going into effect October 15. The three most significant are: -the end of the 40-year amortization -the requirement for borrowers to have a minimum credit score of 620 -end of zero-down mortgages

This is only for CMHC insured mortgages.

There are other insurers who will provide insurance for those with 35+ year amort and < 620 FICO.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.