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-- The Secret Criminal Society of the Federal Reserve (Part II)
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quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z LOL, debt is not a "product." By centralized institutions, I'm referring to not the Fed specifically, but all central banks. You do know what the word centralized means right ?

Debt is a product. Please dude, I major in financial analysis, I study this crap. Debt is sold to you for the price of the interest. It's a very simple concept...

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Another thing, I also DO NOT want it, anywhere fucking near me (and no one else should have to bother with it either) but the system we live under makes it virtually unavoidable pragmatically. And no, it's not fair. Making money out of thin air is not wealth anybody earned. That's not work, that taking advantage of your inherited wealth; extorting the general population who would never need to take any loans if it weren't for the economic system we have, interest and debt being the specific. Class wars, those who have an abundance of capital, generally those with inherited wealth, are the only beneficiaries. It doesn't take a genius or a degree, or reading Marx, or anything like that to figure out something that basic.

For your information, they aren't "creating money out of thing air". The Federal Reserve may do that, but that is completely within their power to do so as a means to maintain price stability. Commercial banks are required to maintain a reserve of 10% of their deposits as reserve cash. Which means there is a limit to how much a bank can loan out; and that is based on the amount of deposits the bank gets. Please, don't talk to me about "it doesn't take a genius", this or that. The system really isn't out to get you...

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN BSE, you keep moving the goalposts. you made 3 very serious errors in your post from the COR and i really dont see the point in continuing the discussion until you retract those fallacious claims. sorry, that's wrong. here is a list of the 12 banks that make up the fed. Boston New York Philadelphia Cleveland Richmond Atlanta Chicago St. Louis Minneapolis Kansas City Dallas San Francisco

Could you source that please?

quote:

that's all i have to say really. there's only so many times you can have the exact same argument before it gets really boring.

Of course, and you can only skip over so much that I have said before I lose interest in you totally. Do you concede the Gulf of Tonkin was a lie? Lol, shove that list by Donna up your down under.

This sums the whole argument up, quite easily.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...23003047AAqq8xL

Taking into account, it's Y!A, you can see both sides represented in the same manner it has taken 6 pages of bullshit to accomplish.

If you think that the Rothschild family would so blatantly put their name on America's monetary policy, you're dafter than I thought. And if you think that a Bill written by the richest ******s in the world and then passed through congress as legit is anything but fucked up you might as well stand in traffic. Figuratively of course, I don't actually wish you anything but indifference.


JP Morgan, agent of Rothschild in the early 1900s, was one of the -shall we say (He owned the mansion the meeting was held at)- conspirators of Jekyll Island. Morgon & Co just bought up Bear Stearns.. how convenient. The attendees at the meeting had a few common goals:

a) stop growing influence of rival banks and put control into the hands of those at the Jekyll Island meeting

b) pool the reserves of the nation's banks into one large reserve so that all banks would follow the same loan to deposit rations (the 10% fractional banking reserve)

c) shift losses from the owners onto the taxpayers - again, sound familiar?

d) convince Congress and the American people that it was all designed to protect the public

Is it coincidence that in 95 years Morgan has, through (Fed and FDIC brokered) acquisition only, become the largest bank in the US?

People have been well aware of the menace for a long time, and it's only through exertion of control and money that they continue to get away with it.

So yeah, feel free to not respond. Seriously. Bother someone else.

The real menance of our Republic is the invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities, states and nation. At the head is a small group of banking houses... This little coterie...run our government for their own selfish ends. It operates under cover of a self-created screen...seizes...our executive officers...legislative bodies...schools...
courts...newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.�
N.Y. Mayor 1917-1925, John Hylan

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 that seems like a restrictive and inaccurate definition of product. Is electricity a product? how about internet connection or cable? You can't exactly barter for internet service, and it doesn't really resemble any other product offered in any market.

Alright, I'm assuming you're going by this definition of a product or something similar:

quote:

In marketing, a product is anything that can be offered to a market that might satisfy a want or need.[1] In retailing, products are called merchandise. In manufacturing, products are purchased as raw materials and sold as finished goods. Commodities are usually raw materials such as metals and agricultural products, but a commodity can also be anything widely available in the open market.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_(business)

By that definition, a vagina and women are products as they can be offered on to a market [aka prostitution]. Nice value assumption there eh?

So I wouldn't call something that lacks inherent value a "product." In this case, I gave you an example of something that does have inherent value but I still would not call it a product, perhaps if I was a little fucked up in the head I would, but I choose to avoid repulsive values and ideas.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Debt is a product. Please dude, I major in financial analysis, I study this crap. Debt is sold to you for the price of the interest. It's a very simple concept...

I understand that, apparently you didn't understand my post.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z I understand that, apparently you didn't understand my post.

Oh, so you meant the opposite of the below quote...

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z LOL, debt is not a "product."

...is today Opposite Day again?

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Oh, so you meant the opposite of the below quote... ...is today Opposite Day again?

Do you not understand the concept of value assumptions?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Do you not understand the concept of value assumptions?

Please fill me in on why I shouldn't have taken your "LOL, debt isn't a product" quote as literal...

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Please fill me in on why I shouldn't have taken your "LOL, debt isn't a product" quote as literal...

Wasn't it clear from my statement that I completely disagree with certain value assumptions ?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z a vagina and women are products as they can be offered on to a market

...or LazFx's booty hole. but who has that kind of money tho?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Wasn't it clear from my statement that I completely disagree with certain value assumptions ?

Dude, now, you've got me totally confused..

quote:

Originally posted by {b.s.e.} Of course, and you can only skip over so much that I have said before I lose interest in you totally. Do you concede the Gulf of Tonkin was a lie?

youre still not getting it. im not arguing a lack of veracity behind your statement(s), i am denying that they hold any relevance to the other conspiracy theories you like to use them to validate. the fact that you dont see this is also kind've the point

as for the rest of your nonsense,

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN read occrider's posts in THIS THREAD which should answer some of your concerns.

that's all i have to say. your refusal to admit previous errors on this topic is all i need to know about your capacity for honest research (or lack thereof).

edit: you can also follow his explanations in this thread if you really care.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo ...or LazFx's booty hole. but who has that kind of money tho?

Thats right bitches, I am an expensive focking hole!

quote:

Originally posted by {b.s.e.} Could you source that please?

http://www.federalreserve.gov/otherfrb.htm

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Alright, I'm assuming you're going by this definition of a product or something similar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_(business) By that definition, a vagina and women are products as they can be offered on to a market [aka prostitution]. Nice value assumption there eh? So I wouldn't call something that lacks inherent value a "product." In this case, I gave you an example of something that does have inherent value but I still would not call it a product, perhaps if I was a little fucked up in the head I would, but I choose to avoid repulsive values and ideas.

a woman offers the services of her vagina. in that case i guess it depends on whether you consider a service a product, or whether a product has to be tangible.

While i don't agree with the proposition that a product can (or should) be defined by whether you find the product objectionable, nevertheless, I understand your reasoning.

Shaolin--do you own or use any credit cards?

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Shaolin--do you own or use any credit cards?

I own one, I don't use it anymore though. Only to build credit (make purchases that I know I have the money to pay for), since the system demands it implicitly. I never remember Adam Smith endorsing credit so I wouldn't call it necessarily capitalistic in nature.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I own one, I don't use it anymore though. Only to build credit (make purchases that I know I have the money to pay for), since the system demands it implicitly. I never remember Adam Smith endorsing credit so I wouldn't call it necessarily capitalistic in nature.

There was no such thing as debt credit when Adam Smith was alive.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I own one, I don't use it anymore though. Only to build credit (make purchases that I know I have the money to pay for), since the system demands it implicitly. I never remember Adam Smith endorsing credit so I wouldn't call it necessarily capitalistic in nature.

I'm late to the game on this line of commentary, but I would argue that the credit card company offers you a service (to facilitate your purchases in a convenient manner, with the obligation to pay them back some or all of the revolving debt balance on a regular basis, at a cost). i.e. they offer you a product (revolving debt) for a price (the interest rate and fees you pay them, particularly if you do not pay off the balance).

I fucking hate my Amex card.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka I'm late to the game on this line of commentary, but I would argue that the credit card company offers you a service (to facilitate your purchases in a convenient manner, with the obligation to pay them back some or all of the revolving debt balance on a regular basis, at a cost). i.e. they offer you a product (revolving debt) for a price (the interest rate and fees you pay them, particularly if you do not pay off the balance). I fucking hate my Amex card.

the service they offer is keeping open the line of credit. The product they offer is the money they are giving you to make purchases. I wonder if lines we are drawing are too arbitrary.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton There was no such thing as debt credit when Adam Smith was alive.

Which would also make it harder for him to endorse yes ? But wait a second:

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton People have been using debt for thousands of years...

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 the service they offer is keeping open the line of credit.

Assuming you're dumb enough to use a card that has an annual fee!

quote:

The product they offer is the money they are giving you to make purchases.

i.e. revolving debt.

quote:

I wonder if lines we are drawing are too arbitrary.

I can't even tell--are you and I arguing the same thing? I'm getting confused!

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Which would also make it harder for him to endorse yes ? But wait a second:

You're obviously confused. Credit is just another form of debt. I guess you didn't know there are many forms of debt, huh? You're "gotcha" moment, yea, it didn't work...

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Assuming you're dumb enough to use a card that has an annual fee!

while true, i was thinking more along the lines that the company is providing a service of keeping a line open, whether you pay an annual fee or not.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka i.e. revolving debt.

i was distinguishing between the amount of debt issued and the amount of debt available.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka I can't even tell--are you and I arguing the same thing? I'm getting confused!

perhaps, i was just throwing it out whether a distinction between product and service is even relevant. A service is just the product offered by the service provider. A lawyer's product is his legal knowledge, a financial advisor's product is his financial knowledge, etc...

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton You're obviously confused. Credit is just another form of debt. I guess you didn't know there are many forms of debt, huh? You're "gotcha" moment, yea, it didn't work...

that's actually not true. credit is the thing provided by the lender. Debt is what a person/entity owes to the lender. you don't owe credit, and you don't provide debt. Make sense?

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