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-- York U Students??
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strike should be over this week. students should expect to get back on feb 2.

highly frustrating ... I'm all for supporting due process within government affairs and what not, but why try to delay the inevitable in what already has been a damaging experience for students and everyone else affected?

quote:

NDP says no � again � to York legislation Efforts to speed up back-to-work bill to end York U. strike stymied by NDP January 26, 2009 Maria Babbage THE CANADIAN PRESS A last-ditch effort to speed up legislation aimed at ending a long strike at Toronto's York University was stymied this afternoon, leaving frustrated students in limbo for at least another few days. The Liberal government and Opposition Progressive Conservatives wanted to sit until midnight if necessary to get through the debate and pass the back-to-work bill, but the New Democrats refused. The NDP's opposition to the legislation means the bill won't likely be passed until Thursday, and students will likely have to wait until next week to return to the classroom. NDP Leader Howard Hampton, who has steadfastly resisted the bill from the beginning, denied he was playing procedural games that would ultimate hurt students. "I'm sure the McGuinty government wants somebody to blame, but the reality is, there are very serious issues here," Hampton said. Ontarians need to know that the Liberals are not providing enough funding to the province's universities and that York University didn't bargain in good faith with its employees, he said. The Liberals and Progressive Conservatives had hoped to pass the bill yesterday when Premier Dalton McGuinty recalled the legislature, but the New Democrats voted against the bill. Hampton vowed to take all the time allowed under the rules to debate the bill and wouldn't say whether he planned to stall it further by demanding amendments. York students could have been back in the classroom as soon as tomorrow if the government had told the university to go back to the bargaining table, he said. "We won't be debating tonight," Hampton said. "If the government wanted to stay until midnight, they should have thought of that last week." Debate got off to a heated start in the legislature, with finger-pointing on all sides over who was to blame for the 12-week strike. The opposition parties accused the Liberals of sitting on their hands for weeks as the strike dragged on, while the Liberals deflected blame to the NDP for delaying the bill's speedy passage. With Premier Dalton McGuinty absent from the legislature, it was up to self-described attack dog George Smitherman, who is deputy premier, to lead the government's counterattack. Smitherman accused Hampton of needlessly prolonging the suffering of students, pointing out the NDP supported back-to-work legislation last spring that ended a surprise Toronto transit strike. "Why are you standing in the way of the opportunity for 50,000 students and their families deeply impacted to get back into the classroom?" Smitherman demanded. Progressive Conservative Jim Wilson erupted in a rant aimed at Colleges and Universities Minister John Milloy, accusing him of doing little to prevent similar labour disputes at other universities. "Do something so that we don't have a massive provincewide strike," Wilson shouted. "Either that, or resign, because you're completely friggin' incompetent." The strike has kept up to 50,000 York students out of classes since early November.

source:
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/577544

I hope the same thing doesn't happen at U of T. Although there are rumours it might.

quote:

Originally posted by T_ALI I hope the same thing doesn't happen at U of T. Although there are rumours it might.

I'm hearing conflicting rumours. Last I heard it was not likely (this came from several TAs), but then again someone told me that they heard on the radio that U of T TAs and part-time profs could be in a strike position in 3 weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker What do people expect when they apply and then go to this school? York is arguably the most leftist unversity in the country and has been plagued by labour unrest for the last 15 years (even longer many would say). It's an institution driven by unionist ideals - this type of job action is not uncommon (at York). Although I feel bad for people who have lost time, money and other resources while this strike has been going on... you get what you sign-up for, no?

dumbest post in the thread
seriously, gtfo

thank you ania

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper The economy is shit, and TA's don't deserve any more job security than I do, or anyone else for that matter. If work hard, you are rewarded. If your employer doesn't reward you, go somewhere else. Pretty simple. It's a shit move to hold thousands of students hostage - hindering their job prospects by doing so - just so that you can be sheltered from the economic uncertainty that is plaguing every single Canadian right now.

I was on strike last year with the Laurier instructors so I know exactly how they are treated and it's not really any different at any university in Ontario. The issues are the same; shit pay and shit benefits and an increasing void of full time academics.

It's ok for universities to accept double the enrollment over the last ten years (and pass that amount on to students), but do they meet that increased demand by hiring more staff? Of course not. Instead, they just let the older professors retire and fill the void by hiring struggling academics for one course (for a whopping income of 6 or 7 thousand per course!! WOW!) That's how we should reward people who spend 10-15 years of their life living on nothing and getting in debt with the government and banks to attain the highest level of education. One professor I knew was in his early 40s, had a kid, and despite publishing articles and participating in book publications, could only get one course at UoT, one course at Western and one at Laurier all in the same term. And he, like countless others, have been scraping that meagre existence together for over 5 years.

I bet York University has no problem handing out their dozens of doctorates for each field every year and taking all that money they get from the student and government. No, it's always the union's fault and those greedy teachers!! Those greedy instructors who are delivering the supposed HIGHEST education available (which costs upward of 6 thousand per student now and that's not counting government subsidies) yet are barely able to survive in the working world.

I'm not even in the university system anymore (partly because I recognised that teaching in the university system is NOT worth it), but I can fully understand the gripes of these instructors. Just because someone chooses teaching as their career DOES NOT mean they lose their right to organise, to strike or to fight for a better overall living.

The university took the student's money for tuition this year. If they can't resolve THEIR labour problems, then THEY should refund student's tuition. I'm really fucking tired of people ignorantly blaming unions for everything.

Legislate against them, give the corporations the right to treat people and workers like shit and see what kind of fucking world we get.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Akermanis I take issue with a bunch of contract workers whining about their Job security. In the real world (read: not ridiculously left-wing socialist union land) contract employees don't have collective bargaining to try and demand such ridiculous things. Do you think all of the consultants and temporary full-time workers employed by the Ontario government are unionized? No. Do you think that all of the consultants and temporary full-time workers employed by the federal government are unionized? No. Why should these temporary full-time workers be any different? Stop crying and go back to work. You're fucking up people's lives. if you need to make a good salary... get a JOB. Don't TA. As far as I am concerned the compensation you receive for TAing is to supplement your education - not to make a living.

Do any of you understand the difference between "TA" and course instructor? It doesn't seem like it.

Now, if you really want to get into a contract worker versus full time employee, why don't you go into a faculty's department office at any university. Ask how many full time or "tenured" professors there are in that department. Then ask how many "part time instructors" they also have in their payroll department. At Laurier and Waterloo, the ratio was something like 30% full time professors.
Do you think that 2/3 or 3/4 of any level of government's full time workforce is under 50%? Hmm...get back to me on that.

The reality is that most of you on here don't know anything about how university faculties run their departments or what it's like to actually be a university instructor.

Also, anyone who thinks that the administration cares more about students than the actual instructors, TAs, or professors (as a general rule) are seriously disillusioned. To most Deans or university prresidents, students are "income units" and nothing more. Wake up

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 (partly because I recognised that teaching in the university system is NOT worth it)

and if more York TAs and part time staff thought the same way, things should naturally work themselves out over time

quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL and if more York TAs and part time staff thought the same way, things should naturally work themselves out over time

I highly doubt that. The problems I've been talking about are rampant at every university in Ontario, not just York. So you think that to resolve future strikes, people shouldn't pursue graduate degrees or doctorates? In today's world, when you're lucky to get a decent job with just a BA, I don't see enrollment in MA and PhD programs decreasing. There's also that small problem of increased enrollment. Universites are double the size of what they were only 10-20 years ago. More students naturally means you need to hire more teachers...right? That isn't what is happening.

Looks like U of T is in a strike position on February 1st.

Hopefully McGuinty legislates these people back to work so it sets a precedent and will make TAs at other schools think twice about striking.

If U of T strikes for anymore than a couple of weeks, it will delay my career aspirations by at least a year (due to the timing of professional examinations).

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 I was on strike last year with the Laurier instructors so I know exactly how they are treated and it's not really any different at any university in Ontario. The issues are the same; shit pay and shit benefits and an increasing void of full time academics. It's ok for universities to accept double the enrollment over the last ten years (and pass that amount on to students), but do they meet that increased demand by hiring more staff? Of course not. Instead, they just let the older professors retire and fill the void by hiring struggling academics for one course (for a whopping income of 6 or 7 thousand per course!! WOW!) That's how we should reward people who spend 10-15 years of their life living on nothing and getting in debt with the government and banks to attain the highest level of education. One professor I knew was in his early 40s, had a kid, and despite publishing articles and participating in book publications, could only get one course at UoT, one course at Western and one at Laurier all in the same term. And he, like countless others, have been scraping that meagre existence together for over 5 years. I bet York University has no problem handing out their dozens of doctorates for each field every year and taking all that money they get from the student and government. No, it's always the union's fault and those greedy teachers!! Those greedy instructors who are delivering the supposed HIGHEST education available (which costs upward of 6 thousand per student now and that's not counting government subsidies) yet are barely able to survive in the working world. I'm not even in the university system anymore (partly because I recognised that teaching in the university system is NOT worth it), but I can fully understand the gripes of these instructors. Just because someone chooses teaching as their career DOES NOT mean they lose their right to organise, to strike or to fight for a better overall living. The university took the student's money for tuition this year. If they can't resolve THEIR labour problems, then THEY should refund student's tuition. I'm really fucking tired of people ignorantly blaming unions for everything. Legislate against them, give the corporations the right to treat people and workers like shit and see what kind of fucking world we get.

Seriously, I appreciate job conditions might not be great, but unions aren't the way to fix it.

All they do is distort market dynamics for labor, ultimately harming the employer by driving up labor costs and making them uncompetitive. (You don't have to look much past the automakers for further evidence...or York's most recent application numbers)

Unions have a very short term, narrow minded focus and often it comes back to bite them in the ass. You can justify it all you want, but I am categorically against unions and your miserable work conditions aren't going to change that.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 So you think that to resolve future strikes, people shouldn't pursue graduate degrees or doctorates?

no that's not what I'm trying to say, and I'm not sure how you managed to derive that. i'm of the opinion that natural market forces should inevitably determine what the impacted workers are valued if allowed. unions artificially inflate wages against this belief through threat of labour disruption, thus making the employer less competitive within the market.

anyways, the economic benefits for and against unions are well documented in economic theory so it's probably pointless having us debate endlessly on this. i highly doubt your opinion on the matter will change, especially having personal experiences being involved with one.

just wanted to vent my personal frustration at this whole matter, ultimately given that the real victims in all this are the students.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Seriously, I appreciate job conditions might not be great, but unions aren't the way to fix it. All they do is distort market dynamics for labor, ultimately harming the employer by driving up labor costs and making them uncompetitive. (You don't have to look much past the automakers for further evidence...or York's most recent application numbers) Unions have a very short term, narrow minded focus and often it comes back to bite them in the ass. You can justify it all you want, but I am categorically against unions and your miserable work conditions aren't going to change that.

They aren't MY miserable work conditions actually. But since you admit to them being "miserable" and you still don't think those who are striking to improve those conditions should have that basic right, then there's not much point bothering. Have you ever been exploited in the work place before? I bet you have. But you strike me as the kind of person who would allow themselves to be taken advantage of like that instead of sticking up for yourself.

I also find that those who bitch about unions the loudest are those who want and need one in their work places the most.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 Do you think that 2/3 or 3/4 of any level of government's full time workforce is under 50%? Hmm...get back to me on that. The reality is that most of you on here don't know anything about how university faculties run their departments or what it's like to actually be a university instructor.

No, I think the reality here is you know very little about how the real world works.

You might be surprised when I tell you that the VAST MAJORITY of people who work for, oh, lets say the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care are contract and temporary full-time workers.

If you want job security and tenure go work for the federal government full-time for three years. They'll make you indeterminate. Full time employment in the tenured sense is becoming a thing of the past. These whiny union folks need to take their balls out of their purses and join the rest of the world.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 I also find that those who bitch about unions the loudest are those who want and need one in their work places the most.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 But you strike me as the kind of person who would allow themselves to be taken advantage of like that instead of sticking up for yourself.

Really? That's funny, because when I didn't like my work conditions or opportunities in my industry, I switched employers, and then following that, I went back to school for an MBA to improve my skills and job prospects. It's worked out great....making your own success as opposed to relying on others to protect you generally does though.

There's no point in arguing about this.

There are those who agree strongly about the positive aspects of unions and the protection of the employees...

and there those who think that unions are complete and under BS and don't provide anything security for those who are lazy, and inefficient in the workplace and causes production/innovation to remain stagnant...


I wonder what category I fit under...hmmm