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Originally posted by Fir3start3r What exactly do you think the wealthy are going to do with their money when Obamanomics start up? They're certainly not going to watch the government take it. You people need to wake up because the hammer is going to come down on the middle class as soon as the wealthy take their funds out of arms reach of Obama Claus...

And watch how fast loopholes start closing up for US citizens if it starts going that route. Just think of the jobs at the IRS that it'll create, then we can all bitch about how big government is getting because citizens are trying to cheat their taxes.

Or do you think that all US citizens will suddenly leave the country for emerging markets, with the phenomenal standards of living that they currently offer? If they think they're getting better personal income tax rates from more established nations, they're joking themselves.

On the plus side, I guess then we'll see who the "real Americans" are.

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Originally posted by The17sss Yeah I guess you would have been screwed if you bought a house before the bubble and didn't plan on staying in it for at least 10 years. So you work in finance? Then I'm sure you know Charlotte is the main financial center outside of NYC... not that I'm trying to convince you to move here or anything, but you'd be shocked at how much house you can get for your money here. True, the wheels turn a little slower in the south, but it's a good sized city growing fast and after spending a week in NYC, my blood pressure drops significantly when I get back here...lol. What are your long term plans? Are you a NYC lifer or are you open to living other places?

Law

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Originally posted by Groundhog Boy And watch how fast loopholes start closing up for US citizens if it starts going that route.

speaking of closing loopholes, I was in Bermuda the other day... the guy who's house I was at is Richard Pearman who's father was instrumental in making Bermuda a tax haven. He was a Rhode scholar at Oxford and is an international tax attorney with pretty much all of the fortune 500 companies as clients, and he was telling me how Obama is planning on closing the tax loopholes (may take a few years to do it) that so many of those companies enjoy and it scares the shit out of them. I asked why he's doing it and he said, "because he's a democrat and that's what they do."

That's why we need a flat sales tax system. No more income tax, capital gains tax, etc. Just sales tax. It's transparent, everyone knows what everyone else pays, and it's fair.

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Originally posted by Groundhog Boy On the plus side, I guess then we'll see who the "real Americans" are.

Yup - they'll be the bewildered ones holding the bailout bag btw...while much gnashing of teeth will be had by those below the poverty line wondering where their meal ticket went...

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Originally posted by Krypton That's why we need a flat sales tax system. No more income tax, capital gains tax, etc. Just sales tax. It's transparent, everyone knows what everyone else pays, and it's fair.

It'd definitely hit up the service industry jobs more, as much is done in cash there. Plus the Amish since they do everything in cash and have been shirking income tax payments all along (especially annoying because their buggies ruin roads that your tax dollars pay to build).

That said, would you pay taxes on stock trades? Would you pay 25+% on a home or car purchase, on top of the actual price?

To be honest, my actual spending isn't that high aside from rent. Taxing just my groceries, clothes, discretionary purchases like CDs, bar tabs, electronics, etc. wouldn't provide much income for the government.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Yup - they'll be the bewildered ones holding the bailout bag btw...while much gnashing of teeth will be had by those below the poverty line wondering where their meal ticket went...

bingo. think about it... something like 40% of people here don't pay income taxes now. If he's giving 95% of Americans a tax break, then those already not paying are going to get a tax credit, or free money paid for by others. That's a lot of people who are getting free shit that may not work for it, but by god they have a right to vote. He's building a voting block by making more people reliant on the wonderful altruism of government

"Democrats, thrive on as many voters being dependent on government as possible, and they thrive on having voters think that Republicans are responsible for their woeful economic plight."
-Rush

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Originally posted by Krypton That's why we need a flat sales tax system. No more income tax, capital gains tax, etc. Just sales tax. It's transparent, everyone knows what everyone else pays, and it's fair.

Dammit! I hate it when I agree with Krypton

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Originally posted by Groundhog Boy It'd definitely hit up the service industry jobs more, as much is done in cash there. Plus the Amish since they do everything in cash and have been shirking income tax payments all along (especially annoying because their buggies ruin roads that your tax dollars pay to build). That said, would you pay taxes on stock trades? Would you pay 25+% on a home or car purchase, on top of the actual price? To be honest, my actual spending isn't that high aside from rent. Taxing just my groceries, clothes, discretionary purchases like CDs, bar tabs, electronics, etc. wouldn't provide much income for the government.

Of course there would need to be some enforcement of the tax law but the IRS already does that. Everyone already pays taxes on stock trades, home purchases, and car purchases. But the difference would be made up by the savings from not having to pay income taxes. I'm also sure tax breaks could be given in instances such as investments, home purchases, etc.

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Originally posted by The17sss Dammit! I hate it when I agree with Krypton

The only reason I am a registered Republican is taxes, small government, low expenditures. They've since abandoned that platform.

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Originally posted by The17sss HA! Please... you're in over your head on this one buddy. Don't lecture me on my lack of knowledge on the Malaysian business system when I operate there and you don't. If you peeled back the first layer of the onion, you'd know about things that apply to our company there, such as the 1 million (Malaysian) dollar transfer of technology grant we recently got, which we do not have to pay back, and we can designate that money however we wish within the company. You would also know there is something you can apply for called "Bionexus status" as a company if you produce and/or are involved in the research and development of environmentally clean/green/sound/ products... which gives you 5 years worth of tax free income as a business. Siphon was a poor choice of words though, you're right about that. Edit: We operate abroad in that location because for what we do, and who we're connected with, that's where the business happens to be.

you're right, i don't know anything about malaysian business laws, but you were implying that you were using malaysia to hide income, not that you had an actual business in malaysia. Furthermore, i'm not a malaysia business expert, only an international tax attorney. I do international tax planning for a living, so nothing you say about taxes is over my head.

Since now you're saying you have a business reason to operate abroad (which isn't what you were implying before), your foreign corporation (if you have a foreign corporation - i don't remember if you said you do) may be able to defer taxes if it meets certain rules (generally that the income isn't passive and it is earned in a business conducted with 3rd parties). I have no idea how the tech grant would be characterized, but the reason my standard hourly bill rate is over $400 is to answer those questions. You still need to declare it, and as soon as the money comes back into the US it is taxable. FYI, obviously i don't know how much you pay in taxes, but i think the $40K in taxes I paid is pretty substantial, and i'm not bitching about it.

again - this isn't legal advice (disclaimer bs), and no attorney client relationship is formed. (GHB can relate to this).

Nothing is more sickening than when people wrap their own greed in a flag.

all of this sounds fishy.. anyone know anyone that works for the IRS??

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Originally posted by LazFX all of this sounds fishy.. anyone know anyone that works for the IRS??

It does. He's clearly admitted he just doesn't want to pay taxes. I shouldn't be freely giving him this information, but he should know that if he doesn't file certain forms (5471) the consequences are as follows:

1) the period of limitation for which the service may make adjustments to his income never begins (i.e., they can audit your income for that unreported foreign income until you die, and it would be subject to interest),

2) criminal penalties could apply (i.e., jail time), and

3) civil penalties will certainly apply, which consists of an initial $1,000 penalty for failing to file, and after 90 days of when the form is required to be filed an additional $1,000 penalty would be assessed every 30 days until the penalty reaches $24,000.

There are other fraud (which would be likely here) and accuracy related penalties that could apply if his income was substantially understated and the resulting taxes are significantly below the amount which would have been required had he not been a criminal.

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Originally posted by The17sss speaking of closing loopholes, I was in Bermuda the other day... the guy who's house I was at is Richard Pearman who's father was instrumental in making Bermuda a tax haven. He was a Rhode scholar at Oxford and is an international tax attorney with pretty much all of the fortune 500 companies as clients, and he was telling me how Obama is planning on closing the tax loopholes (may take a few years to do it) that so many of those companies enjoy and it scares the shit out of them. I asked why he's doing it and he said, "because he's a democrat and that's what they do."

so insightful. It's amazing that you name drop someone nobody knows (and who helped deplete treasuries around the world), throw in a rhode's scholar and an oxford reference, and think we are supposed to care that his irrelevant son said, "because he's a democrat and that's what they do."

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 so insightful. It's amazing that you name drop someone nobody knows (and who helped deplete treasuries around the world), throw in a rhode's scholar and an oxford reference, and think we are supposed to care that his irrelevant son said, "because he's a democrat and that's what they do."

Not to mention the fact that he's "scared" of closing loopholes that allow rich individuals to defraud the government in ways the middle class has no ability to do.

This really is a sickening thread.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Not to mention the fact that he's "scared" of closing loopholes that allow rich individuals to defraud the government in ways the middle class has no ability to do. This really is a sickening thread.

to me this is the same as a corporate executive committing securities fraud (i.e., insider trading, churning, etc...), or someone committing extortion.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 you're right, i don't know anything about malaysian business laws, but you were implying that you were using malaysia to hide income, not that you had an actual business in malaysia. Furthermore, i'm not a malaysia business expert, only an international tax attorney. I do international tax planning for a living, so nothing you say about taxes is over my head. Since now you're saying you have a business reason to operate abroad (which isn't what you were implying before), your foreign corporation (if you have a foreign corporation - i don't remember if you said you do) may be able to defer taxes if it meets certain rules (generally that the income isn't passive and it is earned in a business conducted with 3rd parties). I have no idea how the tech grant would be characterized, but the reason my standard hourly bill rate is over $400 is to answer those questions. You still need to declare it, and as soon as the money comes back into the US it is taxable. FYI, obviously i don't know how much you pay in taxes, but i think the $40K in taxes I paid is pretty substantial, and i'm not bitching about it. again - this isn't legal advice (disclaimer bs), and no attorney client relationship is formed. (GHB can relate to this).

I didn't imply you were in over your head on tax law, I was saying that you were about business operations in Malaysia. You assumed I was "using" malaysia as a tax haven, which I wasn't... me using the word "siphon" probably didn't help, but you can ask Krypton; he and I have talked extensively about my legitimate business operations there for a while now. A Malaysian based company basically absorbed our U.S. company, and we operate there NOT as a foreign corporation, and do so legitimately. We applied for and got the transfer of technology grant through their government to make the knowledge/resources that originated through our U.S. based company officially the legal property of Malaysia. We also applied for the BioNexus status because of what we're involved in, which I explained earlier gives 5 years of tax free profits, and got that. As long as I keep the money earned there over there, there's no reason for me to pay taxes on it. Like I said, I can wire transfer money from there to buy whatever I want over here legitimately.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 so insightful. It's amazing that you name drop someone nobody knows (and who helped deplete treasuries around the world), throw in a rhode's scholar and an oxford reference, and think we are supposed to care that his irrelevant son said, "because he's a democrat and that's what they do."

No no, the irrelevant person in that statement was his father, who's been dead a long time. The guy I spoke with (Pearman) is the oxford educated rhode scholar who is an internationl tax attorney. The guy is 75 years old and has amassed a fortune you could only dream about by practing what you practice, only for about 50 years longer. Sorry I didn't type out a transcript of our entire conversation for you to study... I was just throwing out a highlight he said that made me laugh.

http://www.conyerslaw.com/jurisdiction.cfm?Page=1

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Not to mention the fact that he's "scared" of closing loopholes that allow rich individuals to defraud the government in ways the middle class has no ability to do. This really is a sickening thread.

this must be your morally reprehensible finger pointer statement of the day. kudos. your idealism is commendable but if you can learn to accept that life isn't fair for everyone, and won't be, you might not be so angry all the time

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 to me this is the same as a corporate executive committing securities fraud (i.e., insider trading, churning, etc...), or someone committing extortion.

why? because a company operates in a country that is a tax haven and legally uses that to their advantage?

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 It does. He's clearly admitted he just doesn't want to pay taxes. I shouldn't be freely giving him this information, but he should know that if he doesn't file certain forms (5471) the consequences are as follows:

relax fools. not wanting to pay taxes, and actually not paying them are 2 different things. I have always paid them accordingly. Fucking A, yeah I hate paying them. I'm just in a position now in this upcoming year where I may not have to, legitimately. Don't hate

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Originally posted by The17sss I didn't imply you were in over your head on tax law, I was saying that you were about business operations in Malaysia. You assumed I was "using" malaysia as a tax haven, which I wasn't... me using the word "siphon" probably didn't help, but you can ask Krypton; he and I have talked extensively about my legitimate business operations there for a while now. A Malaysian based company basically absorbed our U.S. company, and we operate there NOT as a foreign corporation, and do so legitimately. We applied for and got the transfer of technology grant through their government to make the knowledge/resources that originated through our U.S. based company officially the legal property of Malaysia. We also applied for the BioNexus status because of what we're involved in, which I explained earlier gives 5 years of tax free profits, and got that. As long as I keep the money earned there over there, there's no reason for me to pay taxes on it. Like I said, I can wire transfer money from there to buy whatever I want over here legitimately.

good luck. but from the facts as you lay them out, it doesn't seem like you can legally avoid paying US taxes. i don't know why you think untaxed malaysian income should be untaxed in the US when that money is used for your benefit. To add to that, if your company was acquired by a malaysian company, and you have an ownership interest in the malaysian company you could still be subject to US tax on the malaysian company's current earnings. i suggest you talk to a tax lawyer because it sounds like you're breaking the law and could be subjecting yourself to potential civil and criminal liabilities.

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Originally posted by The17sss relax fools. not wanting to pay taxes, and actually not paying them are 2 different things. I have always paid them accordingly. Fucking A, yeah I hate paying them. I'm just in a position now in this upcoming year where I may not have to, legitimately. Don't hate

that's a huge may.

Since you hate paying taxes, i expect you to hate the benefits of the US military, using public highways, public grants for research, public universities, the local police force, access to US courts, etc... Is that fair?

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Originally posted by The17sss this must be your morally reprehensible finger pointer statement of the day. kudos. your idealism is commendable but if you can learn to accept that life isn't fair for everyone, and won't be, you might not be so angry all the time

It has nothing to do with fairness. That's the last thing on my mind.

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