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-- paul van dyk "i make music for the clubbers, not the critics"
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I think the problem with these guys is that they got marketed so widely that their crowds started to being more mainstream, and it just led them to further commercialism in order to try to please the crowd.

Understandable, but the end result is shit. Well, I haven't been to a Tiesto or PVD gig, but I can't really imagine it being as enjoyable as some other dj's who would bring a different, smaller crowd.

Bigger parties doesn't necessarily lead to more fun.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I dunno, I wonder about this. PvD, for example, used to play much less cheesy stuff than he does now, and certainly his productions -- a lot of them, at least -- were nowhere near as cheesy. I'm thinking also of Armin's remark that he would really like to play "ambient and weird" stuff but his fans wouldn't like it...

I don't think PVD used to play any cheesier music before than he does now. It's just perceived that way.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Damn. That's quite pathetic actually. It sounds like Armin's own musical interests would actually be quite... well, interesting, but he deliberately stifles them for the wants of the crowd he has gathered, a crowd he is obviously terrified of alienating.

Yeah, interesting for about 20 people on this forum. You're probably outnumbered 100000:1 with people who would rather him him play what he does than some ambient shit.

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Originally posted by Neo95gt Yeah, interesting for about 20 people on this forum. You're probably outnumbered 100000:1 with people who would rather him him play what he does than some ambient shit.

Personally I dunno how a DJ can be good at what they do if they don't absolutely love every tune they play.

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Originally posted by Neo95gt Yeah, interesting for about 20 people on this forum. You're probably outnumbered 100000:1 with people who would rather him him play what he does than some ambient shit.

Oh no, not an appeal to popularity! I can't possibly think of a counter to that argument!

Oh wait, yes I can.

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Originally posted by Clovis ASOT has grown so diverse...ahahha fuck me

Yeah, he drops Oxia's 'Domino,' and suddenly ASOT has become a genre defying exposition of diversity from around the world.

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Originally posted by Clovis Personally I dunno how a DJ can be good at what they do if they don't absolutely love every tune they play.

He does love every tune he plays.

tiesto brings the house down when he plays dont h8

PvD is not really cheese...maybe 1 or 2 songs in a 3hours set, but thats his style he plays several kinds of edm, go listen to his vonyc session and u will see:
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...1156&forumid=6&

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Originally posted by Neo95gt He does love every tune he plays.

Does he fuck.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Do you realise you're making the same argument that is always made in this kind of thread and has been shot down every single time? If comparable success is a prerequisite to valid opinion, then you equally have no right to opinion. Which means you can't praise PVD either! It turns out that everyone is entitled to an opinion, whether it be a positive or negative one. Keep reading because this next bit still applies to you: I don't see how PVD doesn't relate to me. I'm a massive fan of his older, 90s material. Seven Ways is one of the best trance albums ever made and I have dozens of his other remixes and productions from that era. Since I've spent plenty of money on Paul Van Dyk records I think I'm as entitled as anyone to have a say on the direction his music has taken. And frankly, this bullshit about clubbers, not critics is a smokescreen to disguise the clinical money-making exercise his career has become. I don't think he was making music for the critics in 1996 either, but he made fantastic music. Now he makes derivative pop-trash to hook in the kids who vote for him on the DJ Mag Top 100. His statement is an insult to critics and clubbers alike, because it assumes that critics never go clubbing and clubbers have no taste. Anyone who knows anything about Paul Van Dyk can see instantly that he's just making records to make money and bolster his fame, not to add something of worth to electronic music as he once did.

So clearly you don't relate to what he's been doing recently. Since when is music ever made for critics?

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Originally posted by Teezdalien Since when is music ever made for critics?

Every time an artist wants promotion.

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Originally posted by Sykonee Every time an artist wants promotion.

Yeah, and wasn't TC's Politics of Dancing 2 review just a major hit with his PR team or what?

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Originally posted by ravenrg84 PvD is not really cheese...maybe 1 or 2 songs in a 3hours set, but thats his style he plays several kinds of edm, go listen to his vonyc session and u will see: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...1156&forumid=6&

I don't think his Vonyc sessions is a good reflection of the sets he plays. I think its a lot different.

To be honest I think his radio show is boring. But I really like his live sets.

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Originally posted by Teezdalien So clearly you don't relate to what he's been doing recently. Since when is music ever made for critics?

What has this got to do with me being a critic? I was, and still am, a PVD fan. I'm unhappy with the direction he's taken. The very fact he's chosen to stop relating to the fans who originally bought his records, paid to go see him and gave him the popularity he is now abusing, in favour of appealing to the lowest common denominator gives me reason to criticise him for stupid statements like this one. To assume that every clubber relates to his music and everyone who doesn't relate is a critic, not a fun-loving, party-going clubber is the most ridiculous, offensive binary opposition he could have created from the situation.

Oh, and one more thing. Since the statement makes it clear he is not making music for himself, his output has nothing to do with his taste, and since it's obvious his sudden output of derivative pop trash (he blatantly rips off about three electro house chart hits on his newest album) has coincided remarkably well with his ascention to the top of the DJ Mag poll it's pretty clear that he's only making music for some clubbers and some fans, and the rest can go fuck off because there's more money to be made in this new crowd. It goes without saying that not every clubber likes PVD or his new stylistic direction so the statement fools nobody. With all that stripped away, it leaves it open that he is selecting certain people to appeal to, and so his motives and reasoning for choosing to relate to some clubbers and not to others (IE: me, apparently) are there to be criticised.

EDIT: I'm not angry at you, by the way. This PVD quote has pissed me off a lot more than it really should have done.,..

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Originally posted by Clovis Absolutely. Though I don't see your eurodance sets getting much hits, what gives?

I even wear a Mau5head while making them. People around here just have no taste!

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J it's obvious his sudden output of derivative pop trash (he blatantly rips off about three electro house chart hits on his newest album) has coincided remarkably well with his ascention to the top of the DJ Mag poll

This bit doesn't make much sense because he's been one of the 5 or so most popular DJs in the world for the last 10 years at least. So it's not like he started to play shit music and then all of a sudden blew up. Obviously he's playing rubbish tunes these days but what can you do? It's the nature of the scene for guys like PVD, Armin, etc. There's loads of good music and loads of good DJ's who play it. Don't get me wrong though, these guys still serve a purpose, although it's not the flag bearing one they used to. They do a good job attracting newcomers to EDM, and most, after doing a little digging, tend to realize there's a whole boatload of shit they're missing out on.

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Originally posted by noikeee I think the problem with these guys is that they got marketed so widely that their crowds started to being more mainstream, and it just led them to further commercialism in order to try to please the crowd. Understandable, but the end result is shit. Well, I haven't been to a Tiesto or PVD gig, but I can't really imagine it being as enjoyable as some other dj's who would bring a different, smaller crowd. Bigger parties doesn't necessarily lead to more fun.

I don't understand the most trance fans with these guys, if you want some fun with trance parties, any retarded can play this stuff, isn't needed some trancestar on the decks.

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Originally posted by Steve Evets This bit doesn't make much sense because he's been one of the 5 or so most popular DJs in the world for the last 10 years at least. So it's not like he started to play shit music and then all of a sudden blew up.

The only real way you can judge his popularity as a DJ is through the DJ Mag poll, and the number of voters in 1998 (when he was #6) was far lower than it is today. As the size of the thing has increased, so have the measures required to maintain a high position on it, which is why all the big names have progressively descended towards pop wank and have set up camp in the Top 5.

Besides, I'd argue that the first steps towards his descent were made ten years ago. Tracks like Tell Me Why and the 98 rework of For An Angel were the beginning of the end for PVD. He made a massive surge from #42 in 1997 to #6 in 1998, just around the time he started making poppier trance. Obviously he didn't miss the trick.

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Originally posted by Paradox Lost Yeah, and wasn't TC's Politics of Dancing 2 review just a major hit with his PR team or what?

Promotion is promotion. Whether it's good or bad, it gets the name out there. Heck, sometimes bad promotion can be good promotion:

"What!? That got a low score? Oh, that just CAN'T be right! I'll have to listen to it for myself!"

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J What has this got to do with me being a critic? I was, and still am, a PVD fan. I'm unhappy with the direction he's taken. The very fact he's chosen to stop relating to the fans who originally bought his records, paid to go see him and gave him the popularity he is now abusing, in favour of appealing to the lowest common denominator gives me reason to criticise him for stupid statements like this one. To assume that every clubber relates to his music and everyone who doesn't relate is a critic, not a fun-loving, party-going clubber is the most ridiculous, offensive binary opposition he could have created from the situation. Oh, and one more thing. Since the statement makes it clear he is not making music for himself, his output has nothing to do with his taste, and since it's obvious his sudden output of derivative pop trash (he blatantly rips off about three electro house chart hits on his newest album) has coincided remarkably well with his ascention to the top of the DJ Mag poll it's pretty clear that he's only making music for some clubbers and some fans, and the rest can go fuck off because there's more money to be made in this new crowd. It goes without saying that not every clubber likes PVD or his new stylistic direction so the statement fools nobody. With all that stripped away, it leaves it open that he is selecting certain people to appeal to, and so his motives and reasoning for choosing to relate to some clubbers and not to others (IE: me, apparently) are there to be criticised. EDIT: I'm not angry at you, by the way. This PVD quote has pissed me off a lot more than it really should have done.,..

You've raised some valid points and opinions here and I'm sorry if my post has enraged you. I respect your point of view.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles http://www.trancesound.net/diversht...van_buuren.html

I remember this from ages ago. Kinda sounds like he has to keep playing what he does now or else.
Would be interesting to see him play some ambient/chillout stuff

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Originally posted by Neo95gt I don't think PVD used to play any cheesier music before than he does now. It's just perceived that way.

if you follow his discography (barring a few cheesy tracks on 45 rpm) you can see the evolution from a pure dance sound into a more commercial one. to the point where his last album had some full out pop tracks on it. which is not to say that he shouldn't branch out into other areas but there's no denying that hes gone a more commercial route.

personally i dont mind his latest albums much like BT's emotional technology. they're both really good producers and when they touch pop it sounds decent to me, id obviously much preffer if they stuck to more traditional. dance-oriented stuff but their version of pop is a lot better than say tiesto's or armin's. that shit has 0 credibility

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Originally posted by RapidFire but their version of pop is a lot better than say tiesto's or armin's. that shit has 0 credibility

How is it any different?

PvD talks about the difference between his music today and before (at 1:05)...

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