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-- Israel bombs Gaza...again.
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I know the question is not directed towards me but I fucking hate/condemn Hamas as well as the Israeli army!!! In the end, its the people that suffer who just wanna live their lives peacefully.

quote:

Originally posted by evil_cookie stop wasting your time Anas Attia--you're arguing against people who have done zero actual research on the topic. In short: you are arguing against a bunch of Fox News viewers

I know I feel like I am, but these are the people that are getting their voices heard... people like me simply are too afraid to voice our opinions because as you can see in this thread I am being attacked left right and center with the most idiotic yet somehow fox-news believable arguments.

I will continue to argue on here until every last one of you is convinced that the war in the middle east is truly, and utterly America's and Israel's war. I cry for Palestine man, along with all the other countries destroyed by these war mongers, I really do.

America is the biggest fucking terrorist of them all and spare me this "good guy" bullshit!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan she's asking a simple question. do you condone, or condemn Hamas terrorist tactics?

A simple question with an extremely complicated answer... Its not a matter of condoning Hammas, its trying to understand why hammas does what they do.

Again, your all commenting without any actual bases for your questions or arguments... Hamas is not the issue here... I have not even mentioned them once in my post as I hope you noticed.

If you still don't understand... Hammas wouldn't exist if Israel didn't kill/imprison and torture most of the Palestinian people...

quote:

Originally posted by tatgirl Anas Attia- I'll ask again for the THIRD TIME: Where is your condemnation of Hamas & these militants? Where is your desire for peace? What do you propose should be done- peace or destruction? I'm glad you can post all these movie clips, but you wont answer the difference in both sides desires.

Do u support/condemn the Israeli army when it kills and terrorizes innocent people?

quote:

Originally posted by Anas Attia A simple question with an extremely complicated answer... Its not a matter of condoning Hammas, its trying to understand why hammas does what they do. Again, your all commenting without any actual bases for your questions or arguments... Hamas is not the issue here... I have not even mentioned them once in my post as I hope you noticed. If you still don't understand... Hammas wouldn't exist if Israel didn't kill/imprison and torture most of the Palestinian people...

i really don't give a shit how just your cause is

if you are willing to harm innocents in order to achieve your goal, no matter how just it is, you are NO BETTER than the people you are fighting

the end does not justify the means

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan i really don't give a shit how just your cause is if you are willing to harm innocents in order to achieve your goal, no matter how just it is, you are NO BETTER than the people you are fighting the end does not justify the means

Don't post any further if your not willing to educate yourself in the matter. It's just upsetting, your not proving anything to anyone, keep pushing them buttons.

Anyways, i'm away from the computer for a bit. This will give you guys a chance to make more fun of the situation, and help each other boost your false accusations and opinions. cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan i really don't give a shit how just your cause is if you are willing to harm innocents in order to achieve your goal, no matter how just it is, you are NO BETTER than the people you are fighting the end does not justify the means

What do u think they should do? Stand back and do nothing while their family/friends/people are being murdered/tortured and terrorized?

quote:

Originally posted by T_ALI What do u think they should do? Stand back and do nothing while their family/friends/people are being murdered/tortured and terrorized?

how about going after legitimate targets?

just let all sides blow each other up....if they can't live in peace then they shouldn't live at all.

This would be a good time for those weapons of mass destruction everyone use to talk about.

How abt the Israeli army does the same thing?

quote:

Originally posted by T_ALI How abt the Israeli army does the same thing?

note that I'm against both sides on this issue

who he plays with fire gets burnt

quote:

Palestine was a gemstone of a country prior to the war,

Palestine was never a country

Anas, all the politics you've mentioned above are obvious and old. But that's not the problem anymore. It would've been nice to know that 50 years ago when israel was formed. The problem is that currently the palestinian muslims and the israelis don't see it that way. I've watched interviews with palestine region muslims, and most of them say, it's a religious war. A war between islam and jews. Some jews see it that way too. Not such a high percentage of jews though, because a lot of them in istrael are not from the middle east, but from europe and russia, who just don't give two shits and are just saving their asses. (They were kicked out of there due to the Nazis and the Commies btw). So they really had nowhere else to go.

In any case, the conflict is now so convoluted, that it's pointless to look at history to place blame, but to try comprehend what is going on currently, and try to figure out what can be done. If you're trying to save lives, peacekeeping is the only thing you can do. If you've got oil investments in the middle east, then you pray israel doesn't perish. If you've picked a side and use the word of god to justify it then you're retarded, and if you don't care about the region, I guess you wouldn't be in this thread.

I'm pretty impartial on this topic but I feel that Anas makes a good point and the fact that when u have a country in control of another; neither one will ever get along.

ex.

Afghanistan and the Soviets

The British and India

Tibet and the Chinese

Native Americans and the occupying force(whatever u wanna cal them; foreigners, whites etc)

Nazis and the Jews of Poland and other countries of Europe etc.

etc.......


In the end its the people who suffer who just wanna live their lives peacefully

quote:

Originally posted by Adam420 Palestine was never a country

neither Israel.

States as we know them are a very recent conecept existing much later than the jewish province in the roman empire the short lived jewish kingdom or the palestinian province in the ottoman empire.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Z The problem is that currently the palestinian muslims and the israelis don't see it that way. I've watched interviews with palestine region muslims, and most of them say, it's a religious war.

if this is the case, Hamas is doing a lot of things forbidden by Quran

quote:

If you're trying to save lives, peacekeeping is the only thing you can do.

You cannot send peacekeepers where there is no peace. (UN already tried this back in 94 IIRC)
Now I can see a form of peacemaking (IE, separate the sides by armed force) but I don't think both Israelis and Hamas want this option. Not to mention no nation has stomach for any more casualties, plus overcommitted militarily

Anas, a few of your videos "Are no longer available". Try to find ones that work.

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan if this is the case, Hamas is doing a lot of things forbidden by Quran

I don't think thats hard to figure out.

quote:

You cannot send peacekeepers where there is no peace. (UN already tried this back in 94 IIRC) Now I can see a form of peacemaking (IE, separate the sides by armed force) but I don't think both Israelis and Hamas want this option. Not to mention no nation has stomach for any more casualties, plus overcommitted militarily

The UN is a joke, plus the west doesn't really care about the conflict over there anyway. Same as the way they don't care about the (many more) killed in Sudan and Darfur.

Now if exxon-mobil needs to build new pipelines through Kosovo and Macedonia, thats a completely different story... think of all the new oil. Isreali oil is old oil. We need more new oil to import.

quote:

Originally posted by Anas Attia I know I feel like I am, but these are the people that are getting their voices heard... people like me simply are too afraid to voice our opinions because as you can see in this thread I am being attacked left right and center with the most idiotic yet somehow fox-news believable arguments. I will continue to argue on here until every last one of you is convinced that the war in the middle east is truly, and utterly America's and Israel's war. I cry for Palestine man, along with all the other countries destroyed by these war mongers, I really do.

Look buddy I lived in Israel for most of my life, I have friends in the army, most likely some of which are deployed as we speak. Hell, I used to regularely visit a restaurant in Haifa that was one day blown apart by a suicide bomber. If you want to have an intelligent discussion I can guarantee to provide one. There are many things I can tell you that you don't know, things, in fact, that will support your argument. On the other hand however, no matter how ard you try, there are also things you don't know that could be used against your argument.

The Israli government plays dirty. I admit it. A lot of them are crooks, I admit that too. I further admit that there is a certain movement in Israel which does not necessarily want to see an end to the way. Also I can tell you that Israeli children grow up without knowing about the horrors that the Plaestinians faced in 1948, and neither about the ones they are faced with right now, which of course interferes with any hope one might have that the Israelis themselves develop a sympathy for their Arab neigbors in any significant numbers.

But at the same time, you fail to admit that this is a 2-sided conflict. Your views are, to say the least, not far from being extreme. You speak of Israel as if it attacks unprovoked, as if the blood of its innocents has never been shed, as if it does not itself need to struggle to survive.

I'd gladly discuss this further, and I hope by my post that you can see that I am perfectly capable of representing both sides. I admit that most people, even the majority that argues in Israel's favor, is quite ill-informed. Indeed it is very easy to critisize actions taking place thousands of miles away from one's own bedroom, which is unfortunate if I may say. You on the other hand, are not capable of arguing for both sides, as demonstrated by your posts, and until that changes, I do not believe most will take you seriously.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Z Anas, all the politics you've mentioned above are obvious and old. But that's not the problem anymore. It would've been nice to know that 50 years ago when israel was formed. The problem is that currently the palestinian muslims and the israelis don't see it that way. I've watched interviews with palestine region muslims, and most of them say, it's a religious war. A war between islam and jews. Some jews see it that way too. Not such a high percentage of jews though, because a lot of them in istrael are not from the middle east, but from europe and russia, who just don't give two shits and are just saving their asses. (They were kicked out of there due to the Nazis and the Commies btw). So they really had nowhere else to go. In any case, the conflict is now so convoluted, that it's pointless to look at history to place blame, but to try comprehend what is going on currently, and try to figure out what can be done. If you're trying to save lives, peacekeeping is the only thing you can do. If you've got oil investments in the middle east, then you pray israel doesn't perish. If you've picked a side and use the word of god to justify it then you're retarded, and if you don't care about the region, I guess you wouldn't be in this thread.

Yes, basically this is what I say. Forget about what brought about the current circumstances and try to justify those event. Instead, just focus on the current issues.

i.e.

Do not argue that Jews have no place in the middle east. Instead, accept the fact that they're there, to stay, and try to figure out the best way to let them do that. Same goes for the other side, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan You cannot send peacekeepers where there is no peace. (UN already tried this back in 94 IIRC) Now I can see a form of peacemaking (IE, separate the sides by armed force) but I don't think both Israelis and Hamas want this option. Not to mention no nation has stomach for any more casualties, plus overcommitted militarily

The only people that are going to be able to solve this are the Israelis and the Hamas, neither side is ready for peace talks or for another party to come in and be the peacemakers.

At this time, all other parties need to sit back and let them battle it out. Unfortunately, outsiders are too worried about casualties and its the outsiders that want this to end. If they are not willing to listen then there is no reason for anyone else to get involved. If this has to last another 50 years then so be it. When both side have had enough thats when others need to step in and help in the peace negotiations.

quote:

Originally posted by malek neither Israel. States as we know them are a very recent conecept existing much later than the jewish province in the roman empire the short lived jewish kingdom or the palestinian province in the ottoman empire.

I meant that there was never a concept of Palestine as an independent nation, until one such a concept arose in opposition to the state of Israel. The way I see it, the Jews in Palestine seized an opportunity. As there was no state in place, they figured they'd create one. The problem was, they forgot about all the arabs and the fact that they wouldn't be happy living in a Jewish state. Obviously by that point it was too late, hence they have to deal with cutrrent situations.

quote:

Originally posted by infinity HiGH How come every time Israel provokes the enemy into action they're victimized? And why is it that that "enemies" actions are condemned but when the "good" guys do it, it's ok? Fighting for freedom and democracy and all that beautiful feel good movie stuff is OK. But the moment people fight for another version of "freedom" then all of the sudden they're terrorists, monsters, animals, etc. Such a double standard it's not even funny.

What did Israel do to provoke Hamas this time? All I have is the news, and a few conspiracy videos posted by Anas, most of which are years old and some of which don't work. All *I* know is that for 3 days Israel said "Stop bombing us, or we'll retaliate" and sure enough, when Hamas didn't stop bombing Israel, they retaliated. Please, instead of stating "Israel provoked them" tell me, specifically, what they have done to provoke them.

It's not good enough for me when I hear a typical "Well, they took over Palestinian territory 60 years ago". You get nowhere arguing about the past, I want to know what's happening NOW that caused Hamas to start launching rockets at Israel. I don't have an opinion on this, like I said, all I have is what the news shows me, and the occasional video that can be likened to the 9/11 conspiracy videos. As it's been shown to me, a casual, generally uninterested observer, it looks like Hamas broke a ceasefire and had 3 full days to stop before Israel retaliated. And from that perspective I ask "What the fuck were you expecting?"

Anas isn't being very useful, she won't answer a single question, she just declares that every person who asks a question is uneducated, directs them to a bunch of, and refuses to accept that Hamas is committing atrocities as well. Well *I* refuse to accept that Hamas OR Israel is innocent, a bomb is a bomb is a bomb, Palestinians are people, Israelis are people, and they are ALL suffering. Until she takes off HER blinders, Anas's opinions are meaningless to me.

I agree with your double-standard assertion. I'm just asking questions, I'm trying not to make any declarations because my knowledge of the situation is very limited. But I CAN share with you my perspective and understanding, and hope that you can, in a civil way, help me to better understand your viewpoints as well, even if in the end I don't agree.

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