Why do some people begin to find trance boring?

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Posted by PETRAN on Jan-07-2009 04:07:

quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Who? Noise artists?

Haha Noise can be...nice!

No i just assume that some people prefer the earlier more repeatetive/hypnotic/acid/technoy German trance which had less melody. When you add a LOT of melody it is inevitable that you'll get proggier and epic stuff and some people don't like that stuff so they prefer the early Harthouse and some MFS or something. Despite th fact that for the most part , trance was always about the melodies.

Posted by PETRAN on Jan-07-2009 04:11:

It is very interesting that everyone believes that today's epic-trance has changed in comparison to older epic-trance whereas it is themselves that changed.

I think that we have some sort of psychological illusion/effect which is worth investigating! I guess that people can't admit that their self-concept has changed and hence they attribute their perceptual changes to the music rather than to themselves.

Posted by MrJiveBoJingles on Jan-07-2009 04:12:

quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
No i just assume that some people prefer the earlier more repeatetive/hypnotic/acid/technoy German trance which had less melody. When you add a LOT of melody it is inevitable that you'll get proggier and epic stuff and some people don't like that stuff so they prefer the early Harthouse and some MFS or something. Despite th fact that for the most part , trance was always about the melodies.

Music can be "about the melodies" without reusing the same structure and same few sounds over and over again. I think the main problem that people with mainstream trance is that its producers have chosen to work with such a limited palette in every way -- emotionally, sonically, and structurally. There's nothing wrong with a supersaw or twinkly square lead in itself, or with a "summery nostalgia" or "uplifting" kind of melody, or even with an occasional big breakdown. But when those became basically the only things on offer within a genre, it gets awfully boring...

Posted by nefardec on Jan-07-2009 04:12:

quote:
Originally posted by Unable
A person's EDM preference can be linked to the complexity of their emotional capacity/experience/requirements... Something along those lines, is that what you're saying?

not preference, just diversity of taste.

quote:
Originally posted by PETRANYeah problem is that trance was almost ALWAYS ABOUT ALL these things you describe. You just tend to like the early German techno-trance sound with Harthouse and stuff. Pogressive Trance from the mid-90s was about the things you say.

yeah definitely, that's the case I'm making.

and if anyone defends the mid nineties prog it's probably from nostalgia.

Posted by creon444 on Jan-07-2009 04:14:

Ja, ja Harthouse ist fantastisch. Jawohl!

Posted by Neo95gt on Jan-07-2009 04:17:

quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
It is very interesting that everyone believes that today's epic-trance has changed in comparison to older epic-trance whereas it is themselves that changed.

I think that we have some sort of psychological illusion/effect which is worth investigating! I guess that people can't admit that their self-concept has changed and hence they attribute their perceptual changes to the music rather than to themselves.

I agree.

Posted by enydo on Jan-07-2009 04:17:

quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
and if anyone defends the mid nineties prog it's probably from nostalgia.

What if someone just likes it?

Posted by PETRAN on Jan-07-2009 04:20:

quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Music can be "about the melodies" without reusing the same structure and same few sounds over and over again. I think the main problem that people with mainstream trance is that its producers have chosen to work with such a limited palette in every way -- emotionally, sonically, and structurally. There's nothing wrong with a supersaw or twinkly square lead in itself, or with a "summery nostalgia" or "uplifting" kind of melody, or even with an occasional big breakdown. But when those became basically the only things on offer within a genre, it gets awfully boring...

In modern Deep House you get all these jazzy stabs. Well yeah...it is the only thing the genre offers and thats why some people are fans!

This is how music works in general. Some people invent a sound and everyone "jumps in the bondwagon". Once the jump is made, it is difficult to break the "perceptual fixation" of the genres characteristics and boundaries. It can be done though-gradually or even instantly (i guess)- and after a certain point we get a new genre! Yupieee

Posted by pwnage1 on Jan-07-2009 04:20:

Posted by creon444 on Jan-07-2009 04:20:

This is trance:

This is NOT trance:

Posted by PETRAN on Jan-07-2009 04:23:

quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
not preference, just diversity of taste.

yeah definitely, that's the case I'm making.

and if anyone defends the mid nineties prog it's probably from nostalgia.

Exactly. Assuming that he/she generally likes the sounds' characteristics in the first place (e.g. the "epicness"), he/she likes more the older epic sound mainly because of

-Nostalgia

-He/She values it more because it is older

Posted by Neo95gt on Jan-07-2009 04:23:

quote:
Originally posted by pwnage1
Still in the mid nineties prog there was considerably less shit.

You were 2.

Posted by MrJiveBoJingles on Jan-07-2009 04:29:

"Anything with a lot of melody and open emotion is basically equivalent to the bombastic epic trance of today. Therefore if you defend music that has a lot of melody and emotion you must be defending it out of mere nostalgia, not because it actually offers something that epic trance doesn't."

^ Looks to be the road this thread is heading down.

Posted by PETRAN on Jan-07-2009 04:37:

quote:
Originally posted by creon444
This is trance:

This is NOT trance:

Is this Trance!?

Because it is from the famous classic trance due Jam and Spoon...

This?

Because they say its trance...

This modern production?

Posted by Chimney on Jan-07-2009 04:37:

Posted by pwnage1 on Jan-07-2009 04:39:

Posted by nefardec on Jan-07-2009 04:40:

quote:
Originally posted by enydo
What if someone just likes it?

there's nothing wrong with liking something.

i'm only inquiring into /why/ one likes something.

i don't believe there's a such thing as "just" liking something

Posted by Unable on Jan-07-2009 04:41:

quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Music can be "about the melodies" without reusing the same structure and same few sounds over and over again. I think the main problem that people with mainstream trance is that its producers have chosen to work with such a limited palette in every way -- emotionally, sonically, and structurally. There's nothing wrong with a supersaw or twinkly square lead in itself, or with a "summery nostalgia" or "uplifting" kind of melody, or even with an occasional big breakdown. But when those became basically the only things on offer within a genre, it gets awfully boring...

Especially when you go and watch a DJ and you realise that all you're listening to is random bits of filler between 2 minute long breakdowns and bass drive, for hours.

Posted by Joss Weatherby on Jan-07-2009 04:41:

Posted by nefardec on Jan-07-2009 04:41:

Posted by Joss Weatherby on Jan-07-2009 04:42:

Emotion is a perception of one person and is immeasurable.

Posted by Unable on Jan-07-2009 04:43:

quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
not preference, just diversity of taste.

ah I see, and agree with that. Would have disagreed if it was preference though

Posted by PETRAN on Jan-07-2009 04:45:

quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
"Anything with a lot of melody and open emotion is basically equivalent to the bombastic epic trance of today. Therefore if you defend music that has a lot of melody and emotion you must be defending it out of mere nostalgia, not because it actually offers something that epic trance doesn't."

^ Looks to be the road this thread is heading down.

Not anything with lot of melody, anything with the "emotional melodic" qualities of trance (e.g. deep-techno producer Vince Watson has jazzy melodies, not bombastic and epic)is not equivalent, but probably strongly related to modern epic and progressive trance. IMO there are not big aesthetic differences between modern stuff and e.g. mid-90s epic-house/progressive trance stuff etc (and ofcourse no difference at all with end-of-90s epic-trance other than the fact that epic-trance was new back then and hence more pioneering whereas todays epic-trance has better production and maybe slightly more complex melodies). You disagree?

Posted by Joss Weatherby on Jan-07-2009 04:49:

quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
You disagree?

I disagree. There are a number of differences.

For one, almost the whole entire sound of the progressive trance from 1995-2000 is basically unheard of today. A lot of this has to do with, at least I think, the technology used to produce the music.

Music up to 2000 was mostly hardware generated, rack synths, effects racks, midi sequencers, hardware mixers. Yea there was computers but most of it was for arrangement and not instrumentation.

I think this has a huge aesthetic difference to the music.

Posted by enydo on Jan-07-2009 04:54:

quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
there's nothing wrong with liking something.

i'm only inquiring into /why/ one likes something.

i don't believe there's a such thing as "just" liking something

I was just saying because you seem to really look down upon people who like that stuff.

I like the way that older stuff sounds, the energy it has and the way many of the tracks develop. I mostly enjoy the darker dirtier stuff, think Digweed's old GU comps. I can't listen to modern prog/trance at all really, but I still love the older stuff, and in my case it can't possibly be nostalgia. I'm young though I suppose, so maybe it's just my tastes being very underdeveloped.

whatever

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