TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- USA - West Coast / Las Vegas
-- Stimulus Bill
Pages (7): « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 »

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen The fact is a stimulus could have been written with half of the dollar amount of this one, AND have been just as effective.

no that is not a fact, unless of course you're ignoring the opinion of all the nation's leading economists who agree that the size and scope of the stimulus fits the size and scope of the crisis. if you have a fire that takes 10 gallons to put out and you only bring 5, then you haven't really solved anything. was the bill rushed? well 240,000 jobs were lost in october, 580,000 were lost in november, another 580,000 were lost in december and by the time january hit yet another 600,000 jobs were gone. and the market is still tanking hard. if you want to stare at a rug fire and think about what the best way to put it out is, you may end up looking at a house fire before you've even reached for anything.

josh and dave, i realize the democratic party and everything it does triggers an automatic gag reflex in you whereby you must take the opposition stance and rationalize why or how it could be wrong, but obama doesn't fit into the brand of american politics you grew up with. his goal is to solve this thing, not press it through the filter of his party's ideology and see what sticks. he has studied the problem far more in-depth than either of you. he's tracked down and discussed it with people far smarter than any of us. he's been doing this since before he became president. the people who wrote this bill in congress have done the same. the first thing i want to say is props to obama for understanding the constitution and allowing congress to write the bill rather than giving them one of his own to earmark. second, as was mentioned, all those line items you're waving the flag at is marginal. many of them are aimed at refunding institutions that were unfunded and underfunded under bush. all the democrats genuinely want a full economic recovery because it would genuinely validate their ascension to power. all the republicans genuinely want to trigger failure under democratic rule (both political and economic) because it would prove that the democrats don't know what they're doing either. of course they will tell you everything the democrats do will make the sky fall so you come running to them out of fear. that's called the inside game. that's all the the republican party has become since the rise of lee atwater. the party is good at nothing but attacking, politicizing and fearmongering. they thrive on making americans more ignorant. it grows their base. that's why i really don't understand why young, otherwise bright people support the republican party. if you are a fiscal conservative, you are not republican. although if you didn't know that supply-side economics, flat tax, and everything else reagan stood for was a big joke, or lie, no more of a joke... then i guess i'm not surprised you buy their lip service.

I don't understand all the bickering over the stimulus. Obama just got into office less than a month ago so give the process a chance to work.

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH no that is not a fact, unless of course you're ignoring the opinion of all the nation's leading economists who agree that the size and scope of the stimulus fits the size and scope of the crisis. if you have a fire that takes 10 gallons to put out and you only bring 5, then you haven't really solved anything. was the bill rushed? well 240,000 jobs were lost in october, 580,000 were lost in november, another 580,000 were lost in december and by the time january hit yet another 600,000 jobs were gone. and the market is still tanking hard. if you want to stare at a rug fire and think about what the best way to put it out is, you may end up looking at a house fire before you've even reached for anything. josh and dave, i realize the democratic party and everything it does triggers an automatic gag reflex in you whereby you must take the opposition stance and rationalize why or how it could be wrong, but obama doesn't fit into the brand of american politics you grew up with. his goal is to solve this thing, not press it through the filter of his party's ideology and see what sticks. he has studied the problem far more in-depth than either of you. he's tracked down and discussed it with people far smarter than any of us. he's been doing this since before he became president. the people who wrote this bill in congress have done the same. the first thing i want to say is props to obama for understanding the constitution and allowing congress to write the bill rather than giving them one of his own to earmark. second, as was mentioned, all those line items you're waving the flag at is marginal. many of them are aimed at refunding institutions that were unfunded and underfunded under bush. all the democrats genuinely want a full economic recovery because it would genuinely validate their ascension to power. all the republicans genuinely want to trigger failure under democratic rule (both political and economic) because it would prove that the democrats don't know what they're doing either. of course they will tell you everything the democrats do will make the sky fall so you come running to them out of fear. that's called the inside game. that's all the the republican party has become since the rise of lee atwater. the party is good at nothing but attacking, politicizing and fearmongering. they thrive on making americans more ignorant. it grows their base. that's why i really don't understand why young, otherwise bright people support the republican party. if you are a fiscal conservative, you are not republican. although if you didn't know that supply-side economics, flat tax, and everything else reagan stood for was a big joke, or lie, no more of a joke... then i guess i'm not surprised you buy their lip service.

PARAGRAPHS ARE YOUR FRIEND!

quote:

Originally posted by Lomeli PARAGRAPHS ARE YOUR FRIEND!

It's called proof by verbosity.

Ancient technique.

quote:

Originally posted by Hypersky I don't understand all the bickering over the stimulus. Obama just got into office less than a month ago so give the process a chance to work.

Like I said, it's funny to see everyone all up in arms and concerned about government spending all of a sudden.


Really funny...

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Like I said, it's funny to see republicans and people who dislike obama all up in arms and concerned about government spending all of a sudden. Really funny...

Yeah that works too.

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH that's why i really don't understand why young, otherwise bright people support the republican party. if you are a fiscal conservative, you are not republican.

Exactly, I have never once claimed to be a republican, nor am I registered as one. Hardly do I ever vote like one either. I voted for Al Gore in 2000, and Ralph Nadar in 08. Just because I dont support Obama and speak my mind regarding that doesnt make me a republican.

Everybody on TA just brands me that because I disagree with THEM, and they claim to be a democrat. According to you all, if you disagree that Obama is going to change the world then that makes you a republican. Every time I am critical of Obama, a bush bashing reponse is the first to come. How is being critical of Obama, at the same time being supportive of Bush? Its your black and white political views, and the two party political trap you are all caught in that causes us to disagree, its working to perfection in favor of the democrats in this instance.

Because I think Obama got it wrong, doesnt force me to run scared to republcians for help. I believe that most in washington are doing a shitty job outside of a few moderates that are helpless anyway. I find it hard for truthful, loyal, forward thinking politicians to have any success in american politics as long as the two party system prevails.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy

All these posts, and sadly you have provided nothing to this thread outside of biased party bashing and mockery, absent of any comprehensive thinking or ideas.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Like I said, it's funny to see everyone all up in arms and concerned about government spending all of a sudden. Really funny...

I was appalled by the bush administration's spending, and the way congress let him do it. Nor did i ever defend it. But it was a bit harder to track drawn over 8 years, and didnt all come on one day in one bill. So it recieved different attention and criticism, but dont think because there was not a TA thread regarding it that this is the first time I have been appalled by wreckless government spending.

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen I was appalled by the bush administration's spending, and the way congress let him do it. Nor did i ever defend it. But it was a bit harder to track drawn over 8 years, and didnt all come on one day in one bill. So it recieved different attention and criticism, but dont think because there was not a TA thread regarding it that this is the first time I have been appalled by wreckless government spending.

Has a lot less to do with TA threads and a lot more to do with the general attention given to it by the media and pundits across the board.

Point is, none of you were complaining about the exact same thing a few months ago, and if you did, it wasn't with half the amount of skepticism from the get go.

We've already wasted trillions of dollars over the last 8 years.

And this bill is not wasteful.

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen All these posts, and sadly you have provided nothing to this thread outside of biased party bashing and mockery, absent of any comprehensive thinking or ideas.

And you nothing more than a right wing chearleading anti-govt. copy & paste queen regurgitating garbage from the conservative blogesphere.

Look back at my posts.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Has a lot less to do with TA threads and a lot more to do with the general attention given to it by the media and pundits across the board. Point is, none of you were complaining about the exact same thing a few months ago

partially because people were more concerned with the election, thus the media was too. But since you brought it up,

read my posts to a few of the bailout threads if you please. I was against all those shananagans, as well as the stupid $600 refund of last year.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...ghlight=bailout

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...ghlight=bailout

and ill just drop you somewhere in the middle of this thread and see if anybody was appalled by the bailout shanagans

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...=&pagenumber=14

quote:

Originally posted by starboy And you nothing more than a right wing chearleading anti-govt. copy & paste queen. Look back at my posts.

i guess it doesnt hurt to add another to that list LOL

your black or white, right or left thinking prevents you from understanding, and moving forward with ideas and has forced you to conclude that I am somehow a Palin-Limbaugh fox news enthusiast. Well done

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen i guess it doesnt hurt to add another to that list LOL

I just dropped in to prove you wrong, but it looks as if everyone has already done that, and continues to do so

My ideas and ideology are illistrated in this recovery bill. No need for me to come in here and preach my world views.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy I just dropped in to prove you wrong, but it looks as if everyone has already done that, and continues to do so My ideas and ideology are illistrated in this recovery bill. No need for me to come in here and preach my world views.

perhaps you should stick to threads where everybody that posts is in agreement with each other, it will better suit your intellegence capibilities.

so not to be tarred with the same brush, I also don't believe a two party system can ever work - it leads to polarised politics and easy manipulation through leverage.

Where I come from, we have three legitimate parties which allows for opposite views as well as a median, or at least an alternative in most situations.

For example, the decision to invade of Iraq: both Labour and Conservative committed (for very political reasons and some relating to the relationship with the US) to the invasion, however the Liberal Democrats (don't worry, it doesn't have the same meaning as those words in the USA), went against the war. As the war became the unending mess that it is, votes went to the LibDems in the form of parlimentary seats and forced the other parties politicians to change their stance.

If there had not been a third major political party, the two parties would have just continued their unpopular position as there was no alternative.

The reason there is probably some Bush bashing when there is criticism of Obama is quite simple:

Bush, our most recent point of comparison for a president, caused 5 trillion dollars worth of EXTRA deficit in the 8 years during his tenure. Everyone seems to be up in arms about Obama using 700bn to sort out this mess - and bear in mind that when Bush wanted to push through a bill worth just as much, he got little resistance, and that had far less scrutiny or accountability.

Obama could have forced this bill through from the start, without trying to extend his hand or offer amendments, as bush did on so many occasions - why the double standard?

I'm not some blind Democrat or Obama fan - it's just that so far he's had a few short weeks to sort out a mess that's took 8 years+ to create, and you've got to give him a chance.

Lastly, do you realize that even with this stimulus bill, the debt is less than 8% of GDP - look at all the other countries in the world that have been effected by the downturn and you'll see their dept as GDP % are double and in some cases triple that figure (UK Debt as GDP = 47%!!!!). All the USA has to do is get started again and it will be in a better position than most others because of it's GDP potential, so don't sweat a trillion to get in back in place.

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen perhaps you should stick to threads where everybody that posts is in agreement with each other, it will better suit your intellegence capibilities.

Perhaps you should copy and paste "news" from credible and un-biased sources and not radical right wing blogs like you did on the first page of this thread. But that might be beyond your "intellegence capabilities"

http://www.reason.com/news/printer/131611.html

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Perhaps you should copy and paste "news" from credible and un-biased sources and not radical right wing blogs like you did on the first page of this thread. But that might be beyond your "intellegence capabilities" http://www.reason.com/news/printer/131611.html

Damn. That was copied verbatim for the start of this thread, and that is a serious right wing neo-conservative blog.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Perhaps you should copy and paste "news" from credible and un-biased sources and not radical right wing blogs like you did on the first page of this thread.

R!ch, clovis, and diskodave, through well written analytical posts have often driven me to reevaluate my position and ideas. However your negative posts illuminate the problems with a two party system and show that many process ideas in the form of black and white, right or left, republican or democrat, and are not capable of an educational debate.

I cut and pasted ONE article outlining billions of wasteful pork, so nice of you too crown me queen!

Additionally, I was not aware that the sources I read most for information such as the Wall Street Journal, NY Times, and LA times were seen as radical right wing blogs

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Damn. That was copied verbatim for the start of this thread, and that is a serious right wing neo-conservative blog.

yes, the artilce was sent to my email by a friend, the link to the website was not. While the analytical portion of the article was not the important part, the outlined spending contained in the bill is undeniable.

This spending bill sucks ass...the Congressional Budget Office estimated that with interest, this plan equals $30,000 per American household. I for one could use $30,000...who's with me?

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen I have never once claimed to be a republican, nor am I registered as one.

Really?

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen Im registered republican, and I voted for Al Gore in 2000, and Ralph Nadar in 2008. All Im saying is Obama and the democrats are not taking over the world. 4 short years ago the democrats were in bad shape. Power has been shifting for centuries between the two parties, and it will continue to shift. Super Obama isnt going to change that

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...60&pagenumber=6

quote:

Originally posted by Sammy V This spending bill sucks ass...the Congressional Budget Office estimated that with interest, this plan equals $30,000 per American household. I for one could use $30,000...who's with me?

LOL

I would think spending would pick up, right along with job creation and business investment

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Really? [IMG]

yep its true, Im now a registered independant. I was registered as a republican when i voted for Al Gore in 2000, that was the point of the post.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.