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-- Bit Rate - And why it doesn't apply to you
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Guys, I seriously cannot understand why you're still arguing with cronodevir on this thread or any other.

He's been called out and proven wrong on so many threads now that when he starts posting on a thread, I know that's my cue to leave it, and not bother anymore. Just look at all the threads he's gotton on to recently and notice how they decent into meaningless offtopic nonsense.

Honestly, all of you (Storyteller, Echo, Kit, Danni, palm, diginut, subtle, richie, FJ, Edz, etc,) know better than to waste your time as you're all oldschool on here and well informed, even if your viewpoints ans opinions vary.

He literally just argues for the sake of it, and worst of all he's nearly always misinformed or misguided.

Name one instance where I was proven wrong on something, And I will show you fallacy in action. Only time Ive been wrong is in the discussion about wav files. That is all, every other discussion was me posting an opinion, as an a opinion, and people flying off the wang. Like Subtle.

I'm posting like I always have, threads go offtopic when people want to try to debate me and prove to me why they think my opinion is wrong. And this is pretty recent. So don't try to play it off like i'm the one who is trouble. Don't call me out on some shit when its other arrogant mother ******s who think they can debate an opinion. Its not my fault this is the internet and people are too stupid to know when someone is arguing or talking normally. Like the cubase thread, i said it was my preference to use freezemode over bouncing wavs because its easier. Diginut wanted to argue against my preference, that alone is a fallacy.

Half of you people probably think this post is argumentative. Sucks to be you.

This is bollocks. I'm taking a break from this place, I'm not just gonna be fuel for folks who want to find someone to argue with and think I'm the easiest target.

Actually, I shouldn't have referenced the people above, they're perfectly capable of speak for themselves but there's a reason I listed them:

all of them in their own way or fields are incredibly knowledgeable and have been involved in thoughtful discussions where you've come along, told them they're wrong and posted pages of, in some cases well written, absolute bullshit. They've all also at some point told you, in no uncertain terms that you don't have a clue and that they're on to you.

I've seen many of them post over the years and really learned a lot from what's on here, as well as contributing myself and all of them do it not to argue but to share information and as I do, like to give something back.

I didn't even know about the examples you seem to be referring to about you being incorrect on particular subjects - I could post all the threads where I just go "...oh no, not again..." but honestly, I don't want to embares you.

Seriously do a search under you name and see where you seem to be an "expert" on everything or everyone else is "stupid".....That's it!... everyones a cvnt, you're great they just don't know it yet. "sucks to be them".

I'm pretty sure you're not out of school yet, never been in a pro studio and haven't released anything of any signifigance. not that there's anything wrong with that at all - just don't teel us you're the fucking oracle.

Sorry - I really don't mean this to be a personal "attack". Please just read the tone and content of your posts - they're nearly always confrontational and you paint yourself to be the warren buffet of EDM.

My posts are not confrontational. I simply don't care about spending time making them as neutral as I can. I expect people to be intelligent enough to see what I am saying and take it for what it is. Who cares how it sounds? And I don't act like I'm the only one right and everyone else is wrong. I simply say something when someone gets something wrong, instead of ignoring it or calling them a douche. When people say something correct why would they need any input from anyone else? Most of the people you have mentioned I agree with most of the time. Also most of the people you have mentioned Ive only ever had problems with when they say something stupid.

If you really deduce everything you mentioned from my posts, then I will say you shouldn't make assumptions and take the content for what it is. This isn't an ePenis contest and it isn't high school. There is no reason for me to make myself look like an oracle or what ever. Its the internet.

I think some people need to seriously consider taking etiquette classes or something. When you get to the point where a guy clearly says "I don't agree with you" and you interpret that as "yer a fvckin meron you peic of shit i am rite u r rong"... something is wrong.

And you know what the funny part is. Everyone here ive talked to in msn or PM, ive gotten along with.

i actually find some of your posts interesting. if you can make music on linux/ubuntu im more than willing to read about it, no mather if im going to try or not myself. right now im in a state needing to follow any best possible standards due to my lack of time and patient learning something new and the need of good online support, but someday I might have alot of freetime to learn new stuff (usually summer as i hate hot weather anyway and mostly hide inside) and then I would def be interesting in trying ubuntu studio or something else. Right now im learning mac and logic and that alone can be frustrating enough and if i end up whit that as i did with cubase, sonar, fruity, ableton, hardware then i need to try another thing and it might as well be linux. so far ive only been able to produce in Reason but im starting to feel its limitations in my vains. so keep posting for my sake. discussions are healthy anyway.

Ive used FLStudio 7 in Ubuntu for a long while, I was able to use all my VSTi programs aswell. FLStudio 8 used to work, but to be honest, wine fucked up the registry system in a recent update. But it won't be long before its fixed. I was able to use firefox, to browse the web, 10 youtube vids opened with no issues. Amarok was pretty nice I think, and Photoshop and Paintshop both ran in wine just fine. The only troubles I had were when I myself did something wrong and broke something, which can happen because Linux is by no means idiot proof.

Just type "sudo rm -R /"[don't do this btw] into console and your pc will be pretty much fucked. Try to break windows and see how hard it is. Remember, sitting in a DAW with vsti and using mp3s and such is only a tiny method of making music, I know people who use only rosegarden to do the notation and the rest is done by their band. All that can be done on linux. Probably the hardest thing to do on linux is make EDM. But LMMS is a program that is getting somewhere relatively fast. And it aims to replace FLStudio Its completely linux based. Id use it myself but atm it doesn't have vsti FX support [lame] but does support vsti instruments. And all of this is done via apt-get, you hardly ever have to compile from source.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir My posts are not confrontational. I simply don't care about spending time making them as neutral as I can. I expect people to be intelligent enough to see what I am saying and take it for what it is. Who cares how it sounds? And I don't act like I'm the only one right and everyone else is wrong. I simply say something when someone gets something wrong, instead of ignoring it or calling them a douche. When people say something correct why would they need any input from anyone else? Most of the people you have mentioned I agree with most of the time. Also most of the people you have mentioned Ive only ever had problems with when they say something stupid.

Please don't make me quote your posts from the few weeks just to prove this point....

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir If you really deduce everything you mentioned from my posts, then I will say you shouldn't make assumptions and take the content for what it is. This isn't an ePenis contest and it isn't high school. There is no reason for me to make myself look like an oracle or what ever. Its the internet.

Again, I can quote your recent posts if you really want me to show you how you come across? Let's just say.. "I'm in an argumentative mood at the moment". Ring any bells? No? How about the fact you mention the epenis thing? Hmmmm reminds me of a thread when you got called out and someone posted that epenis joke jpeg, referring directly to you.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir I think some people need to seriously consider taking etiquette classes or something. When you get to the point where a guy clearly says "I don't agree with you" and you interpret that as "yer a fvckin meron you peic of shit i am rite u r rong"... something is wrong. And you know what the funny part is. Everyone here ive talked to in msn or PM, ive gotten along with.

It's not about that at all. I'm sure you're a nice person and get on with people. I'm saying that a lot of things you've said on here are just utter nonsense. Then combine them with how you say it and you just come across obnoxious and childish.

Here's an example in this very thread:

While professing how linux is better that windows for what we do (duh ) you say "Try to break windows and see how hard it is". Are you fucking kidding me? Windows while useful for our needs is very easy to break and has numerous flaws allowing it be seriously disabled or damaged with one or two simple regedits.

Want an example of how you come across?
"The general idea is, I think most of you are full of shit and don't know/understand linux"
"Its the internet, you guys are wrong, get used to it"
"Your parents should be slapped for using proprietary office software"

AND THAT'S JUST ON THIS FUCKING PAGE!!! Seriously if you go through some other posts/threads it just gets worse.

I can only think you are slightly delusional in the true sense - you get caught up in your threads and have no idea that on the internet, what you wright is often taken for who you are and you don't realize that what you wright is taken at face value.

I'm done though. If you don't see it now, you never will.

Lol those quotes of mine are jokes.

"The general idea is, I think most of you are full of shit and don't know/understand linux"

How do you not see that is a joke? Its leaning on this idea people have on the internet of right and wrong. Same with this one: "Its the internet, you guys are wrong, get used to it" I see that and I lol. Because it sounds like your typical eNerd who is in an argument he is not winning.

Though in retrospect, I could see how one would not see the humor in them. If a person thought everything else I said was wrong those statements could be seen as serious come backs from me.

Its like when I said trance died after 1999. Do you honestly think that I believe every single trance song made after December 21st 1999 sucks? No, trance went down hill a bit but there is still some spiffy stuff out there, the statement is only said to shed some light on a discussion that has gotten a bit serious, by saying a statement that is cliche.

Most of the time when people see these posts as confrontational, are times when i'm not serious. Take my recent posts to palm for example. those are serious posts, nothing in them speaks of confrontation.

As for windows being hard to break, compared to Linux it is hard. You can kill Linux in one command, a command you could easily mistake and type in. Windows requires at least a minuscule amount of effort.

I think Ive had enough attention, how about we talk about bit-rates again? Here is an easy question, What is bit-rate?

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Storyteller : All that sounds like a problem with the user, not the OS.

And this is the institutional problem with FOSS that I was talking about, right here in plain view: The experienced users and evangelists, instead of trying to help neophytes by offering cool-headed advice and pushing the development community for better designs, will brand said users as ignorant twits and browbeat them endlessly for not figuring it out themselves.

There are some products out there that have inferior quality or at least inferior usability to their competition, but make up for it by having top-notch support and customer service. Linux is not one of them.

Windows tech support consist of a guy from Pakistan or India on some hotline, with a guy who knows nothing about computers, but was given a sheet of paper with a list of arbitrary things to say to you regardless to what your problem is. At most the best support you will get is from a 3rd party source, such as ##windows on freenode.

Most Linux distros have a forum and 10 or so irc channels in different languages. On top of that most Linux applications have their own channel on freenode also. Freenode is like, the nexus of techsupport. You should visit us sometime.

The only time people act like an asshole is when you get Linux and complain to them that it doesn't act like windows. I won't say there aren't some xenophobes in the Linux world, because there are, some people will blacklist you simply for mentioning windows. But that certainly isn't the majority of users, and its no one in any channels ive frequented.

Even still, some programs actually do have shit support, but are still popular. FLStudio is one of them. The devs are complete assholes, they are like two dudes in their bedroom, and people give them advice on what to improve and the responses are less than quality. Yet its still one of the most used DAWs. So you can't say that the support for an application has much to say about it.

A DAW some guy whipped up in his spare time is the last thing you want to use.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Lol those quotes of mine are jokes. "The general idea is, I think most of you are full of shit and don't know/understand linux" How do you not see that is a joke? Its leaning on this idea people have on the internet of right and wrong. Same with this one: "Its the internet, you guys are wrong, get used to it" I see that and I lol. Because it sounds like your typical eNerd who is in an argument he is not winning. Though in retrospect, I could see how one would not see the humor in them. If a person thought everything else I said was wrong those statements could be seen as serious come backs from me.

"Those are jokes.......How do you not see those are jokes?....I could see how one would not see humor in them".

You're just confusing the shit out of me now and proving my point that you don't really consider what you're writing or may have just written, before posting again.

I do get what you're saying though - the only thing is, that when you're the only person that understands it's a joke or you're the only one laughing, the jokes on you. No one else will get it.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Most of the time when people see these posts as confrontational, are times when i'm not serious. Take my recent posts to palm for example. those are serious posts, nothing in them speaks of confrontation. As for windows being hard to break, compared to Linux it is hard. You can kill Linux in one command, a command you could easily mistake and type in. Windows requires at least a minuscule amount of effort.

Yes, I've seen you post "serious" posts, but some of them are so off base and I can't help thinking that you take that particular standpoint just to argue, because they often go against the proven, tried tested and established logic. Not saying you can't have have your own opinion at all, but at least they have to make sense.

For instance, you can't honestly suggest that an OS which has the single most limited support currently for music production, and is constantly eveolving becuase it;s written in people's spare/hobby time is the best choice for serious EDM producers? But yes, that's exactly what you're saying. It may have cool features and it is a bloody interesting subject for some form of discussion, but come on, I've never met a serous producer in over a decade in this industry that would do anything other than toy with the idea for a breif period before going back to win/mac.

Listen to yourself first before you post.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir I think Ive had enough attention, how about we talk about bit-rates again? Here is an easy question, What is bit-rate?

Well, if you've been reading the discussion in this very thread....

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Being a little pedantic here, but "bit rate" is a bandwidth measurement in bits per second (or more typically kbps) and is generally a combination of the bit depth and sampling rate. What you're really referring to here is bit depth, which is bits per sample, or the word size used to express amplitude of the signal. I've seen some replies using the correct term but thought I should mention this for the sake of everyone else.

dj rann you need to shutup

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir The only time people act like an asshole is when you get Linux and complain to them that it doesn't act like windows.

That could be used to describe any valid complaint. Windows usually "acts" the right way: not making people think.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux A DAW some guy whipped up in his spare time is the last thing you want to use.

Exactly. No incentive and no accountability. The free software model only works (quasi-)reliably for software that a very large number of programmers would want to use.

quote:

Originally posted by orTof�nChiLd dj rann you need to shutup

Not you again

FLStudio is coded by two guys in their spare time.


I never said Linux was a better choice for EDM than Windows, I simply said its a very valid choice. Id go so far as to say Mac and Linux are on the same level in terms of ability to make music on them.

Though for anyone who does actually care about their computer and uses it alot and likes to maintain everything, id say Linux is the best choice. Malware is little to none, support is generally high, and compatibility doubles every year. Looking at Windows history, its only gotten worse in the last 10 years. Vista is by most peoples account the worst operating system ever made, even good ole bill gates admitted that. As for Mac, Ive never heard a good thing about Mac. [no exaggeration]

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut That could be used to describe any valid complaint. Windows usually "acts" the right way: not making people think.

So basically your saying Linux needs to be idiot friendly before it will be a real option? then Linux will probably never be an option, because most are opposed to the idea of making it idiot friendly. Ubuntu is looked down upon for this very reason. Making things easy.

Free software model works better than the proprietary model. Simply because the users have say and control in the direction of the software. Id rather change how I do things a little, then be bound and controlled by one single commercial entity, having to bow down to their will and wishes and direction. This is the inherent problem with all video game consoles, you have no control over what content and options you have. Besides all that, many major companies are starting to put their software into the open source market 3 to 5 years after they have released it because they see the benefit in it. Take iD software for example. And futher more, when one codes software because they want to and not because its their job, quality is ensured. The people who code Cubase for instance, could probably give to fucks about quality [Cubase 4] they just want their paycheck. And of course you have vendor lock in. Which causes all sorts of problems. You use a product that uses its own format, then later down the line that product is discontinued, so is all the work you did with that product. And with vendor lock in, you set yourself up to be ripped off my companies, because now they have control over your work flow, they will release updates and such all at major cost. And companies can and do change formats when ever they want which causes previous documents in the older format to become broken or obsolete.

You really prefer all that?

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir FLStudio is coded by two guys in their spare time.

That would explain why it doesn't support multiple cores. It makes my processor sad at the thought of not living up to its full potential!

Here's what Bob Katz has to say:

quote:

So, the first rule in choosing a DAW is to be skeptical over the newcomers. Be wary of the one-year old company producing DAWs. In order for a one-year-old company to have the requisite five man-years of software development, they would need at least five very talented and coordinated DSP engineers. Coordinated, because during program development five people can easily get in each other's way; this can cause far more bugs (and missing features) than one software engineer working by himself for five years. In the case of software development, five times one does not always equal 5. So the one-year-old (or two-year old, or five-year old) company better be well-managed, with software engineers lured (or stolen) from their nearest competitors, excellent business capital (to survive those lean years and still be around to support the product you invested in), and lots of talent. But talent does not guarantee good product. Company management must be quality-oriented. When a large corporation wanted to get into the DAW market, very fast, they hired a crew of talented DSP engineers, but management cut corners in software development, in order to bring out the product in a year or so, and make dollars fast. Needless to say, that company's DAW division has made a rough start. Learn everything you can about the company whose products you are about to invest in. A company which has been around five years and has a strong presence in the marketplace has a good potential of surviving. But maybe five years is not enough. A while back, a certain DAW manufacturer that had been around for five years was bought out by a large conglomerate, which soon decided to get out of the DAW market. Overnight, thousands of loyal users became owners of a white elephant. That's why I like 10-year-old companies even better.... Besides the obvious questions about development capital and financial stability, here are some other important technical questions you should ask before buying. Talk to the users (all ten of them?). How satisfied are they with the product, its performance, its potential, and most of all, its sound? Be very wise-don't rely on the company's "feature-promises". Don't expect the new ones to arrive as fast as the company predicts. All software manufacturers miss their deadlines and leave announced features out of their products. If leaping to conclusions were an Olympic event, software marketing directors would get gold medals every time. So if the product does not have the features you want today, don't buy it on the basis of "real soon now".

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle It is the highest for download portals, and the highest for the whole mp3 standard as we know it. (Yes, then there is the MP3 HD format, i know. ) Do they ? that is good for them, cause i dont think i know a single soul who listens to wave files without it being from a released CD.

The "LAME" mp3 encoder which is the standard one can do up to 640kbps with some messing around(for instance audacity can't afaik wheras adobe audition can). Anything capable of playign mp3s should also support up to that bitrate. However, hardly anyone bothers, I've never actually seen a 640kbps mp3 anywhere, or mentioned. There's also the fact that if people can't tell the difference between wav and 320kbps mp3 they aren't going to be able to tell the difference between 320 and 640kbps mp3.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux A DAW some guy whipped up in his spare time is the last thing you want to use.

have you tried reaper ?

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV have you tried reaper ?

Read my post above.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Not you again

shut up you got owned, go play with ur little mytek

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Read my post above.

reaper supports dual cores and it is free if you really don't feel like. THe problem with most DAWs is that they are built upon dodgy code.

Beatflux..so according to your post, you don't use any DAW. Nice. Atleast the advice you quoted from that guy removes every single available DAW from your options, if you were to follow it.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir FLStudio is coded by two guys in their spare time. I never said Linux was a better choice for EDM than Windows, I simply said its a very valid choice. Id go so far as to say Mac and Linux are on the same level in terms of ability to make music on them. Though for anyone who does actually care about their computer and uses it alot and likes to maintain everything, id say Linux is the best choice. Malware is little to none, support is generally high, and compatibility doubles every year. Looking at Windows history, its only gotten worse in the last 10 years. Vista is by most peoples account the worst operating system ever made, even good ole bill gates admitted that. As for Mac, Ive never heard a good thing about Mac. [no exaggeration]

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Id go so far as to say Mac and Linux are on the same level in terms of ability to make music on them.

Am I the only person that finds this statement absurd?
Let's see:
protools doesn't run on linux. Neither does Logic. Neither does cubase. Just between those 3 DAW platforms, that's over 80% of the entire music production market users.

Please do explain how linux and macs are on the same level in terms of ability to make music on them.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Though for anyone who does actually care about their computer and uses it alot and likes to maintain everything, id say Linux is the best choice. Malware is little to none, support is generally high, and compatibility doubles every year. Looking at Windows history, its only gotten worse in the last 10 years. Vista is by most peoples account the worst operating system ever made, even good ole bill gates admitted that. As for Mac, Ive never heard a good thing about Mac. [no exaggeration]

What's the point in spending large amounts of time to maintain a system when there are working platforms out there that work incredibly well and do what they're supposed to? You're meant to be making music, not acting as "in-house IT" (for for your bedroom studio).

I think you need to think about what you're actually suggesting. Speak to people who work in studios, have experience in the industry. You obviously are well informed about some subjects such as linux etc, but don't really have a clue about the industry or home production standards/methods.

Also, quality IS ensured when it's a paid for product, because sales rely on the quality of the product. Yes it's about money for them - what business isn't? but people buy things because they perform the task they are meant to do. The better they do it, the more popular it will be and therefore generate revenue. They HAVE to build a quality product because clever marketing can only go so far. It;s like saying Mercedes don't give a shit about quality because it's all about money for them. Producing quality is WHY they make money.

Vista in fact is a perfect example of this. It was shit, and because of that, dispite the unbelievable marketing resources MS has, didn't achieve anywhere near the sales that xp did in the same period, even though there are more CP's out there than ever. And yes, linux might be "technically better" in some respects for some tasks, but windows and mac are very, very good at hosting DAW platforms, especially mac becuase you don't have the worries of viruses or stability issues.

If you've never heard a good thing about macs, then you are surrounded by pc/linux fanboys and never been out in the music production world. I actually like both - they both have pro's and cons. Most professional engineers won't work on any other platform than mac - and it's not because they like how they look.


@ "CHILD" - awwww, you still sore about your lavry? Get over it...I'm actually off to play(work) with my PTHD rigs......

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