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-- Suggestions on two topics. 2 Handed Piano playing, arranging a track
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quote:

Originally posted by Kismet7 Actually, I agree with you 100%, because I have argued that idea of artists reinterpreting an idea that has already been used, yet changing it through their own nuances and their own ways of doing ideas of the past. Carnatic music often is based on an artists own interpretation of RAAGas, that are hundreds of years old, yet the interest is there as if they were new pieces of music because each artist has their own interpretation and their own nuances they add to the music. So yes I agree, nothing wrong with reusing centuries old music theory principles. But beyond adding nuance and subtle deviations from music theory confined rules, I think another way to make interesting electronic music would be something more experimental and avoiding music theory. Perhaps replace it with emotions (feeling out melodies and chords), or senses, or maybe drawing imagery...ie make music to draw an image and when drawing that image is achieved, you end up with a great piece of music.

yah indeed - so we end up at intuitive feelings of creativity unrefined by general laws and principles which, i think is perhaps one of the best approaches to it [this is for someone who has had no theory whatsoever]. However, i will add that, in most cases like you say a pre ordained set of rules can benefit someone also - again this would be a case by case scenario.

Go Bruce Lee! im going to get a movie of his now!

quote:

Originally posted by Energy_3 yah indeed - so we end up at intuitive feelings of creativity unrefined by general laws and principles which, i think is perhaps one of the best approaches to it [this is for someone who has had no theory whatsoever]. However, i will add that, in most cases like you say a pre ordained set of rules can benefit someone also - again this would be a case by case scenario. Go Bruce Lee! im going to get a movie of his now!

Yah I guess its about avoiding limitations.

quote:

Originally posted by Kismet7 Yah I guess its about avoiding limitations.

exactly...!

Business, visual art, engineering, investing, cooking, music theory, architecture, and so on and so forth: every craft has a similar learning curve. There is theory and there is practice. Practice does not always follow the theory, and some people may be able to get by on experience alone, but for the majority of people, learning the theory is a crucial stage of development.

The purpose of learning rules and guidelines (let's call them "best practices") in a craft is not to follow them blindly. The purpose is to learn where and how they are applied, so you can decide for yourself whether or not they are appropriate in any given context. In most cases they are, in many cases they aren't. The other purpose is to provide a coherent system for disseminating information so that experts can communicate with each other.

If you do not understand that, it's a shame. If you're willing to rant and rave against it without knowing the first thing about it, it's crass and callow hubris.

Don't really know what you're problem is Kismet7. In my post I asked for help on two different things (TASKS). I did not ask for your opinion as to how they relate to my ability to make 'good music' or electronic music - I asked questions related to tasks, period. (Both of which you did not answer with your double digit replies)

I don't really care if you think a psychology class is more important than a music theory class (and I suspect others do not either). Not only does nobody care, but it doesn't have anything to do with the original post!

Could you please stay out of my threads unless you plan to actually discuss the topic at hand (in a mature way)? If you and some others keep starting shit for no reason I swear by everything holy I will pay big money to have this forum moderated and you shit fucks IP banned for life in a jiffy.

Thanks to those who have tried their best to stay on topic. I know it's hard to ignore idiots who assume way too much and know way too little, but restraint and ignoring them is the best way to condition them to STFU and stay on topic.

Stephen I believe you are just thinking about it too much. Remember music is about feeling.

Dont think it, feel it.

EDIT: although basic music theory is encouraged

If doing melodic, I usually pick a (minor) scale and go over the scale over and over until im familiar with the keys then play until i hear something i feel works. then i open the DAW and go to town.

No I'm not thinking about it too much. I just want some suggestions on two handed playing along with any tips and tricks some may have for two handed playing and arrangement of music. I don't really give a shit if you, or anyone else, thinks my requests are a waste of time for dance music. That's not what I asked. Maybe the two handed practice is for something else?

No reason for this thread to turn into what it has. I asked a few straight forward questions that are not rocket science to answer and some ass hat decided that he could read my mind and turned it into a self-serving pissing contest.

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley No I'm not thinking about it too much. I just want some suggestions on two handed playing along with any tips and tricks some may have for two handed playing and arrangement of music. I don't really give a shit if you, or anyone else, thinks my requests are a waste of time for dance music. That's not what I asked. Maybe the two handed practice is for something else? No reason for this thread to turn into what it has. I asked a few straight forward questions that are not rocket science to answer and some ass hat decided that he could read my mind and turned it into a self-serving pissing contest.

Whoa there buddy I'm not against you here I jsut thought you wanted help writing chords and melodies. I guess I didnt understand the OP right

Sorry if you felt like I'm attacking you, I'm not. I am pist off at Kismet7, not you. I appreciate your efforts to help me.

Well if you are trying to do two handed piano play yes it does take extensive practice and i suggest you get a piano teacher.

I, myself have only had about 6 months of piano training 2 years ago and its not easy stuff.

If you decide you still want to pursue this and not go the route of getting a piano teacher then i suggest you buy DVDs and practice profusely because one thing my piano teacher taught me is that it is mostly muscle memory and eye-to-hand coordination.

not sure if you've ever seen this but this guys has really good vidz and multiple of them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vphW...7879&feature=iv

thanks. i am patient and believe i can do anything (6 years of college will do this to you) and i am not lazy, but i don't do things if I feel they're a futile effort. I have always wanted to "play the piano" so even if being able to play the piano more coherently doesn't help me with my dance projects, I'll still be happy. I surely don't think learning how to do it is going to hurt me, so what is there to lose?!

I've heard practice, practice, practice, which is why I'm here. I just want my time practicing to be well spent, meaning I want to practice in the most efficient manners possible. Thanks for the suggestions

There are many types of piano players. There are the ones that act like one of those old automated piano players pressing keys according to the score in a robotic fashion and there are the ones that understand what they are playing. By undestrand , I mean know what the chord is, know which notes of the chord to accentuate, understand the voice leading withing the music. This will not only make you sound better but it is a great intellectual exercise that will increas your ability to conceptualize music.

There really isn't a secret to playing piano. Learn the technique so you don't hurt yourself and the rest is really just recording yourself, compare it to recordings and then adjust until you are satisfied ( which of course won't ever quite happen )

Piano is a great tool for composing although perhaps not the most necessary asset for EDM.

to Stephen, I've been playing for 23 years so feel free to ask me any questions.

What are your opinions on self teaching? Positives? Negatives?

I'm guessing you'll recommend a resource for this, but whats the best way to begin and progress in practicing?

What are your thoughts on reading piano tabs for songs and practicing them?

Do you think playing "fake piano" (writing midi notes on a sequencer for an edm track after you've dicked around and created something you think sounds worthwhile) helps?

Any major do's and don't's?

I know this is an EDM forum, and writing EDM is very important to me and im sure many others here, but playing the keyboard, or piano, is important to me as well. I took my laptop and keyboard to a friends 2 nights ago and it was neat being able to show him the production side of things. Being more "keyboard coherent" would have been great.

My advice is to definitely take lessons. It's too easy to learn bad habits. Also, having a structured lesson plan and a person who can give you feedback on your progress, answer your questions, etc. will get you up to speed much quicker than self-teaching will. I taught bass lessons for many years and I spent much of my time trying to un-teach my students' bad habits that they developed learning on their own - I have friends who teach guitar and piano lessons and they can attest to the same thing.

Dangit cryo you're supposed to tell me what I want to hear

I guess I will call around to some places and see whats up. I'd rather go somewhere than have somebody come to my casa.

ps. you need to update your sig and take that dirty mopho out of there

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV There are many types of piano players. There are the ones that act like one of those old automated piano players pressing keys according to the score in a robotic fashion and there are the ones that understand what they are playing.

LOL

I can't help but think this has something to do with those Japanese players you mentioned a while back.

The Japanese will end up making robots who play piano.

I'm also a piano player and I would really have to say that lessons are very important in order to avoid a lot of bad habits when it comes to reading/playing music. Before I took lessons, I knew very little how to read notes, so I would habitually read each note, practice measure by measure, and unintentionally memorize the song. Hence, when I started lessons it became really really hard to learn how to sight read or improvise. I learned theory but it took me much longer than necessary to REALLY learn it and how to apply it to music. In effect, I played robotically. Even now it cripples my composition ability because I can't, on command, play freely in whatever key you tell me - I have to take it slowly and rely heavily on my memory, rather than just feeling the music and going with it.

Do piano lessons help you learn to "play by ear".. Meaning you hear a melody, and you can recognize the notes being played, and play it back?

quote:

Originally posted by cl0ckw3rk I'm also a piano player and I would really have to say that lessons are very important in order to avoid a lot of bad habits when it comes to reading/playing music. Before I took lessons, I knew very little how to read notes, so I would habitually read each note, practice measure by measure, and unintentionally memorize the song. Hence, when I started lessons it became really really hard to learn how to sight read or improvise. I learned theory but it took me much longer than necessary to REALLY learn it and how to apply it to music. In effect, I played robotically. Even now it cripples my composition ability because I can't, on command, play freely in whatever key you tell me - I have to take it slowly and rely heavily on my memory, rather than just feeling the music and going with it.

You and I have the exact same problem.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Do piano lessons help you learn to "play by ear".. Meaning you hear a melody, and you can recognize the notes being played, and play it back?

yeah it will from what people i know that play the piano. I would imagine those that play the guitar on this site would say the same thing. Once you learn piano through whatever method you choose after time your able to determine the notes played in music and therefore play it back to yourself without any sheet music whatsoever. Of course, this is someone who is very advanced. My mate is an example of this with Guitar, he can just listen to something on the radio a couple of times, and then just play it back.

Eventually piano lessons will help you play by ear this is once you build up familiarity to the sounds or notes and, again this will take a fair amount of time.

Well I can learn melodies from songs now, but it takes an hour and many replays. But this could be useful for me taking lessons.

Do you have a messenger? [AIM, MSN, ICQ etc etc]

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Well I can learn melodies from songs now, but it takes an hour and many replays. But this could be useful for me taking lessons. Do you have a messenger? [AIM, MSN, ICQ etc etc]

i will PM you my msn.

quote:

Playing the piano with two hands. There are SOOOOO many EDM artists who play "fake piano" and just use their controllers for sampling for the most part and do all the writing with the mouse. I've been watching so many gear videos lately, and I see these guys just doing unbelievable things on a keyboard. I know its years, and decades of experience that allows them to do this, but I am a patient person. I don't live in the microwave world. I just need to know a good formula for learning this. I know practice is the key, but I don't know what to practice!!!!!

Well here is my advise go to your local music store and ask if they do piano lessons. Take a lesson a week to learn to play the piano proficiently and learn to read sheet music.
If you do one lesson a week it wont be that expensive. I know there are books with cds or tapes (remember those?) but the fact of the matter is that nobody is disciplined enough to do this on his own.
You will need lessons with another human being. It is like learning a new language. You need somebody to answer questions and guide you through. Once you learn how to read sheet music you can download the files of your favorite songs print them out and practice all day.

Once you are at the point were you can look at a sheet of music and turn it into music as you go along it really becomes fun more than work.
You can play any melody that exists you can think of or come up with new ones.
You will be able to express your self musically 100%.

But forget all that...

All that is for old people, Jazz musicians ect and will make your music sound boring and generic.

Don't believe me?

Well let me wikipedia some bullshit to convince you...

Jazz absorbed and transformed influences from a diverse range of musical styles however in my opinion it cannot be considered musically interesting because it shifted the approach from a linear succession of musical tones perceived as a single entity to the use on simultaneous pitches.

And that is where the problem with Jazz lies...

See... see...

The real way to produce and express yourself to the fullest is to got to forget all those jazz music limitations that come with traditional training and go to http://www.nonstop2k.com/community/ and download other peoples trance sequences.
You can then import those midi files into your sequencer and do interesting things like change the notes of the file from half notes to 16 notes or change the key move them in different positions ect.
Make sure you find the files that have labeled all the tracks (like bass, pads, drums, lead ect) otherwise you will have to listen to the tracks and pick out the elements and label them yourself. Too much work.

Then after you are done ripping off something else you can assign those files to your cracked copy of trilogy, atmosphere and the other various plug-ins that come with your fruity loops sequencer & start building the drums.

Don't just sample something from another record and build your own library of sampled one shot sounds (that is morally irresponsible) instead buy or torrent the vengeance cds that sample other peoples records but run them through the software version of the 1176 and turn all the knobs to the right to assure there is absolutely no headroom left.
Find the drums you want to use and re compress them to assure that by the time it hits the limiters between the club PAs crossovers and the club PAs horns it will really sound like absolute shit.

Hit bounce and name the track as something different and you are on the way of becoming a millionaire producer. You will live in a huge Beverly Hills villa with three swimming pools drive a ferrari and have parallel relationships with 5 supermodels.

I met peter Peter Gabriel a few years back and he was kind enough to share his secret with me. ''Tiesto beats'' he said. ''If it wasn't for those tiesto sequences on trance 2k midi I wouldn't get these movie soundtrack deals.

''Me Stevie Wonder, Brian Emo'', he said, ''we all download these tiesto midi files on trance 2k and remix them in fruity loops. ''That is the secret to our success.''

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Do piano lessons help you learn to "play by ear".. Meaning you hear a melody, and you can recognize the notes being played, and play it back?

piano lessons dont necessarily help you learn to play by ear.

i was playing the final fantasy 7 theme on the piano 5 years before i ever took a lesson LOL.

but lessons do indeed help with form & how to approach playing by ear.

but a HUGE part of it...is your ears, and their ability to recognize tones & pitches.

quote:

Originally posted by Nightshift but a HUGE parts of it...is your ears and their ability to recognize tone's pitches.

...and intervals.

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